login info join!
Forums > Digital Art and Retouching > What would you like me to cover in the new DVD? Search   Reply
123last
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


Hey, guys. I'm researching for my upcoming retouching DVD and would like to know what are the three biggest problems you had when you were trying to become a successful retoucher/photographer or maybe you are still struggling with right now. And I would also like to know what did you tried and didn't work or tried and did work to overcome those obstacles. Please, help me create a better product.

If you can imagine two circles. One represents what I want to teach and the other represents what you want to learn. The place where they overlap is what the DVD will be.

I already have idea of what I want to do and I have prepared a lot of material after interviewing dozens of prominent retouchers and photographers. If I release it just by what I know now I'm sure you would not be disappointed, but I can always improve and expand the area where those two circles overlap.

P.S.
I will post more info in the near future and thank you. I appreciate your input. smile
Oct 01 12 12:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Frank Sanders
Posts: 77
Vienna, Wien, Austria


Hello Kruno,

what I would be interested on a DVd would be "color". To describe it a litte bit, the following info:

the pic is "basic retouched" (healing brush, clone tool, freq separation, d&b,liquify...)
what to do next?
I am allways impressed what can be done with the colors. Sometimes the pop, sometimes there is a certain mood in the pic, sometimes one color is dominat,... For me this would be a nice theme for a DVD.

Regards Frank
Oct 01 12 02:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,470
Paris, Île-de-France, France


There is so much talk about technique here on these forums yet in practice it's not always proving to be a apt solution for what is really usable.

For example frequency separation.

The only time I've seen a solid example was on where there was a badly creased shirt.  Most examples I see on MM etc are terribly wrong for reproduction in offset or large prints. Everything looks good on internet!

Problem with things like Frequency separation are the colour information below the layers can quickly become a mess of coloured spots.

shows some real world examples where one technique can be the ultimate solution.

By that I mean I can't do it in LR, and the results are by far superior to any other way.

The other thing that needs to be reviewed for most is quality selections for hi res. Many here do not make clean selections usable for press. I've become lazy in the internet world but I can tell you when you do images for Cartier, Hermes, Shiseido, as I have the selections are make or break deals.


The other stuff is optional like smart objects etc. While being efficient in workflow, for me the only important thing is the quality of the image not what workflow gets you there.
Oct 01 12 02:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5,456
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


Have a 4 hour interview of Neil Snape explaining how to master lightroom.
Oct 01 12 02:44 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
BeauTouch
Posts: 48
London, England, United Kingdom


Hi Kruno,

I second Frank's suggestion. One can spend hours healing, cloning - focusing on the tiny imperfections but I struggle with evening skin colour and then adding this extra something colour-wise to make the image worthy of a high-end magazine cover.

Also, there are so many techniques for frequency separation - I understand that it all depends on what works for a specific person but I would like to see your way of working on a image using this technique.

Finally, I have always worked on images that would appear on the net and so working in sRGB colour space. It would be nice to see how you prepare the image for a client that would be using a professional print press.

I can't wait for your DVD!

Regards,
Aaron
Oct 01 12 02:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Balance Photography
Posts: 3,370
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I would like to see you take a number of before and after images (from the masses) (RAW and PSD) and then pick them apart, and make them better. Kind of like - "You missed this", or "I see what you were trying to do here, but this is a better result (or a better way)".
Oct 01 12 03:17 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Mateusz Musielak
Posts: 37
Wrocław, Dolnośląskie, Poland


Hi Kruno,

It's great that the new material is being prepared for another DVD hosted by yourself, which I'm sure will be an absolute banger !

As mentioned by Neil, I think that it would be great to cover some principals related with prints because right now we've got an ideal Internet-world, and hundreds of retouchers that can create an ideal artwork for web-circumstances, and the mysterious world of printing magazines and billboards, which is a whole new level when it comes to preparing a retouched image.

What else.... it would be great if you will manage to surprise the retouching society with more 'black magic' knowledge related with color treatment, sharpening etc. smile

regards,
Mat
Oct 01 12 04:00 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


Thanks for the replies, guys. Keep them coming. smile

Many relies are matching my original idea already. I guess the circles are overlapping more than I expected.

OK. So the original idea was fairly simple, one image retouch using multiple raw conversions. Some Smart Object use and masking. nothing to spectacular, and that was supposed to be a free You Tube tutorial. And than I got talked into making it into a DVD. Well that is way to little material for a proper DVD project so I went on exploring the options. What else I could do. What hasn't been covered or wasn't explained the way it should have been.

First of all it's not fashion and/or beauty I will be working on this time. For the most part I feel that area has been covered around these parts a lot and it's not the only topic available. I'm sure people who are not  exclusive at it might feel like they are being left out at times.

Another thing I have noticed is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of real world application tutorials out there. I mean, really from start to finish. Everything, from client collaboration, preparing for print/press to file delivery. High quality project in mind. Not many tutorials in that context. And especially not done in a comprehensive manner where everything is in one place. Where there is theory and practice combined in a nice fluid manner. 

Sure there are KelbyTraining, Lynda.com, Video2Brain etc. But I feel like after you get the basics down, you have essentially outgrown what they are offering, and much of it is not real world application anyway. I don't mean quality of instructions, but simply the context they are showing it in leaves you with a lot of questions unanswered. You know how the tool works, but it doesn't give you that feeling how to apply it is real world, client based workflow. Anyway, once you watch all of those tutorials you realize that you are still not ready for the world, so you have to learn from somebody who is or you learn by trial any error.

What essentially started as a simple double raw conversion of the file has now turned into a full blown magazine shoot project simulation. Here is the brief version of what I want to do. There are a lot of retouchers and ven photographers who retouch their own work out there and have the age old problem of CATCH-22. They can't get an experience without an opportunity, but they can't get that opportunity without the experience. Everyone longs to be published in a magazine. It's good for professional pride, for exposure, for networking, for portfolio, for everything. Aim of this DVD would be to among a lot of other things tries to provide a solution to the CATCH-22 or at least make it easier to experience how it would be to work on a project like this in real life.

I would like to simulate the project that involves retouching, preparing for print and delivering files to be printed in a magazine. Off course all of this is a simulation. I invented the magazine and the client. And now I'm trying to simulate the real deal as close as I can. You know; client marking up what images they want and what they want to change on those images. I would also simulate revisions and different requests from the client. The basic idea is to work on four images, one to be printed for the cover, one printed as a two page spread and two printed for the article. So I would retouch four images in total. I chose images that would allow me to make it look real but also different enough to allow me to show them different work flow approaches and different retouching techniques.

But there is one area I would like to show in the DVD because I think it's important. And that is preparing the files to print or at least making the whole process smother during the collaboration. Color management done right. It seems that a lot of retouchers and photographers shy away from that feeling it's intimidating. If you look for answers online there is a lot of good information out there but there is also a lot of miss information and contradicting information. Typically you either find very technical crowd and you feel inadequate in following the conversations, plus a lot of it is theory based or you find tutorials on just the basics that leave you with a lot of questions unanswered. And even though they might tell you what profile to use, without understanding the why, you are left dependable on who ever gave you that information. I would like to make it easy to understand, real world application with both why and how answered. So it's theory combined with the real world project simulation. That way you are not just learning what color is but how to use it as well.   

Another thing I would address is workflow options. There are more and more photographers who use Lightroom as their primary database and they combine it with Photoshop for deeper pixel based editing. I want to approach the project with them in mind. So its Lr + Acr + Ps workflow 1.

But coming from a retouching background I know there are a lot of pure retouchers who work with only one of a few images per project and there is no need for them to use Lightroom. So workflow 2 would include them as well. Essentially it would be two workflow approach to the same project to addresses all of the potential audience.

So I started planing. Now I'm still researching but I have gotten pretty far and will be ready for recording pretty soon, maybe next week. I'm also planing on several bonus videos and a nice surprises that I won't mention here. Don't want to spoil the surprise. Sufficient to say there are a lot of techniques and tips & tricks, composeting, masking, sharpening, third party plugins and more in the project as is but I would like to also maybe include something that will actually help you get a job with this knowlage as well. smile 

Here is the concept or sketch of how I wanted to approach it, just to give you an visual idea of where I'm going with this. The project is with the athlete a cyclist in the race track and as the image shows at the bottom in nature. But the way I will set it up is that you can replace my project with any one of yours and still have all the color management and other stuff work for you. So if for example you are doing fashion editorial or a beauty project, even commercial stuff you will simply use your images instead of mine with the appropriate retouching techniques but the underlying principles remain the same or flexible enough for you to adapt.

Client's markup
http://imageshack.us/a/img22/9983/markup.jpg

Concept of how migh a finished printed magazine cover look
http://imageshack.us/a/img204/9078/coverfront700px.jpg
Oct 01 12 04:19 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


Frank Sanders wrote:
Hello Kruno,

what I would be interested on a DVS would be "color". To describe it a litte bit, the following info: the pic is "basic retouched" (healing brush, clone tool, freq separation, d&b,liquify...) what to do next? 

I am allways impressed what can be done with the colors. Sometimes the pop, sometimes there is a certain mood in the pic, sometimes one color is dominat,... For me this would be a nice theme for a DVD.

Regards Frank

Yeah, by my previous post you can see that will be covered.

Neil Snape wrote:
There is so much talk about technique here on these forums yet in practice it's not always proving to be a apt solution for what is really usable.

Couldn't agree more.

Neil Snape wrote:
For example frequency separation.

The only time I've seen a solid example was on where there was a badly creased shirt.  Most examples I see on MM etc are terribly wrong for reproduction in offset or large prints. Everything looks good on internet!

Problem with things like Frequency separation are the colour information below the layers can quickly become a mess of coloured spots.

I think that topic has been almost beaten to death around here and will probably not be addressed.



Neil Snape wrote:
shows some real world examples where one technique can be the ultimate solution.

By that I mean I can't do it in LR, and the results are by far superior to any other way.

The other thing that needs to be reviewed for most is quality selections for hi res. Many here do not make clean selections usable for press. I've become lazy in the internet world but I can tell you when you do images for Cartier, Hermes, Shiseido, as I have the selections are make or break deals.

The other stuff is optional like smart objects etc. While being efficient in workflow, for me the only important thing is the quality of the image not what workflow gets you there.

All of that is already on the list.

Dan K Photography wrote:
Have a 4 hour interview of Neil Snape explaining how to master lightroom.

If he is up for a webinar, I'm game. I'll be the boring hosts who keeps asking dull questions. Hehe.


BeauTouch wrote:
Finally, I have always worked on images that would appear on the net and so working in sRGB colour space. It would be nice to see how you prepare the image for a client that would be using a professional print press.

I can't wait for your DVD!

Regards,
Aaron

It's on the list as well. Actually it's big part of it.


In Balance Photography wrote:
I would like to see you take a number of before and after images (from the masses) (RAW and PSD) and then pick them apart, and make them better. Kind of like - "You missed this", or "I see what you were trying to do here, but this is a better result (or a better way)".

The closes thing to that will be client asking for revisions and telling us what we missed. tongue


Mateusz Musielak wrote:
Hi Kruno,

It's great that the new material is being prepared for another DVD hosted by yourself, which I'm sure will be an absolute banger !

Thanks.


Mateusz Musielak wrote:
As mentioned by Neil, I think that it would be great to cover some principals related with prints because right now we've got an ideal Internet-world, and hundreds of retouchers that can create an ideal artwork for web-circumstances, and the mysterious world of printing magazines and billboards, which is a whole new level when it comes to preparing a retouched image.

What else.... it would be great if you will manage to surprise the retouching society with more 'black magic' knowledge related with color treatment, sharpening etc. smile

regards,
Mat

I'm way ahead of you. smile

Oct 01 12 04:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gulag
Posts: 1,235
Duluth, Georgia, US


I am a big fan of Mert and Marcus's work,  and will appreciate if you can touch some of your insights on their way of color manipulation. Thanks.
Oct 01 12 11:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


I'm glad I read far enough to see "Color Management" and prepping files for publication (RFP).

I know Color Management is boring stuff but it's crucial and nothing is more disappointing to a client than viewing a print that differs from the digital images.

Good stuff.
Oct 01 12 11:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Motordrive Photography
Posts: 2,786
Lodi, California, US


I like to read, and see the workflow when a job is done to someone else' specs,
and really like when you show the strategy map on the Pro Bicycling mag cover.

maybe show a few start to finish jobs that have different challenges and workflow
Oct 01 12 03:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


mshi wrote:
I am a big fan of Mert and Marcus's work,  and will appreciate if you can touch some of your insights on their way of color manipulation. Thanks.

That is very specific and it's for somebod else's work, I don't think it fit's into what I'm trying to do but if you want to know more you should probably start another "how do they do this" thread about it. smile

Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm glad I read far enough to see "Color Management" and prepping files for publication (RFP). I know Color Management is boring stuff but it's crucial and nothing is more disappointing to a client than viewing a print that differs from the digital images.

Good stuff.

I agree, but I'm still not convinced color management always needs to be boring if presented in the right way. That's one of my challenges now - how to provide the proper information but in a practical and interesting way.


Motordrive Photography wrote:
I like to read, and see the workflow when a job is done to someone else' specs,
and really like when you show the strategy map on the Pro Bicycling mag cover.

maybe show a few start to finish jobs that have different challenges and workflow

If I do more than one separate job than I'm not really giving any new information because a lot of the underlying principles are pretty much the same, but to I understand what you are saying. And to cover different challenges and workflow, I'm showing two workflow's and four images within the project, each with it's own set of challenges.

Oct 01 12 08:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
SterlingHein
Posts: 165
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


I like your idea with the cycler...it's along the lines of what I was going to request:

A retouch of a non-beauty image that deals with different elements than simply the face and hair...preferably something that requires retouching/tweaking/compositing the background and foreground.
Oct 01 12 10:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Effective Image
Posts: 3,943
Lansing, Michigan, US


Actions and batch processing a series of similar images.
Oct 01 12 10:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


SterlingHein wrote:
I like your idea with the cycler...it's along the lines of what I was going to request:

A retouch of a non-beauty image that deals with different elements than simply the face and hair...preferably something that requires retouching/tweaking/compositing the background and foreground.

Yes, that will be included. There is one image that is the same cyclist but shot in a stadium and there will be retouching/tweaking/compositing of that stadium and the track in the foreground. There are other stuff that I won't give away now, but there will be something for everybody I suspect.

The Effective Image wrote:
Actions and batch processing a series of similar images.

That is a bit bacic for what I'm trying to do but there will be some work with the presets in Lr and ACR and matching of color/tone.

Oct 01 12 10:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Rolando Garcia
Posts: 143
Asia, Lima Provincias, Peru


Hi krunoslav, this time i think that you take more time to explain the carving trick and tips because in my opinion that is the most difficult thing.
Oct 04 12 10:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Feverstockphoto
Posts: 588
London, England, United Kingdom


The dvd sounds great, thanks for asking us what we would like to see on it.

Here's my story, over the past few years years i have been just copying background layer working on it, then copying that, then working on it, then copying that layer and working on it. Doing different fixes, changes etc... But the problem came when i was asked 'Oh can you bring that bit back in, go back and can change that bit a little more etc... Basically meant for me having to go back and throw away several steps, layers in the psd then redo which was time consuming.

I realized that if i had done it 'right' from the start this could have be avoided by working with selections copying to new layers using adjustment layers with masks.... The past few months i've been trying to change my workflow to do this so that changes i make to my psds are fully changable at a later date thus saving time if some thing needs to be redone/redeited at a later time. I still haven't nailed this down 100% so anything that covers this would help.

Maybe it's basic for those who deal with this everyday but i'm sure i'm not the only one who would benifit from this being covered. Thanks again and hope the dvd is a huge success!
Oct 05 12 11:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
richy01
Posts: 153
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands


Can't wait the DVD to be finished...or do you need more feedback?
Dec 02 12 05:35 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


richy01 wrote:
Can't wait the DVD to be finished...or do you need more feedback?

Sure, here are some additional info for people who want to take a sneak peek at what I'm doing. So far I had positive feedback with few minor technical corrections I need to fix. The biggest problem with feedback that I had so far is that I have a vision and I know what I have recorded and what I want to record, but the videos people see are bit's and pieces out of contexts, so it's hard for them to put together all the pieces and naturally start asking question like; are you going to do this or are you going to do that.

I had one sceptic in regards to the whole Bit depth topic and I had to show him around 5 h of footage to convert him. So I know that I'm on the right track, but it sometimes hard to show that people in the way I see it.

Anyway, for those that have not read in my other posts this is what I'm trying to do in a nutshell.

It will be divided most likely into three parts that compliment each other.

Part 1: I call it Theory Behind the Practice

I can't cover absolutely everything that photoshop has to offer so I decided to focus on what people are struggling the most. In the first part I would be giving a comprehensive look at bit-depth, image sizing and resolution, file types and off course color management. I have seen a lot of people who could benefit from it are trying to ignore it and hope for the best because all the technical stuff is wither boring or too hard. So my challenge was to first figure out what the problems and solutions are and than try to figure out a way to keep all of the complexity and expertise about it intact as much as possible but present it in a way that is easy accessible to anyone. I have spent about a month now researching, talking to people - both experts and end users about how to do it and I think it will be something fresh and new on the market. smile

Part 2: I call it Practice Behind the Theory

So once I explain all the ambiguities about bit-depth, image sizing and resolution, file types and color management along with some other things. It's time to see it in action, on a real world example. So I will be simulating the experience how it is to work for a magazine cover and spread and how it is to work with clients. Everything from exchanging emails to revisions and back & forth collaboration. I will try to make it as educational and as real as I can to provide that  immersive experience. I would retouch four images of a cyclist and they would allow me to show various techniques along the way and preparation for prepress. Everything I showed as theory in part I would be shown in practice in part II

Part 3: If I can make it would be for premium version of the DVD. One would be standard containing part I and part II and Premium version would have part III plus some other bonuses.

OK so I showed you the theory and I showed you how to apply it in real world and now it's time to talk about how to market yourselves and how to make money from what you know. Or how to change the mindset to think more like a business person and not only as  like a retoucher. I can't teach every little detail and step-by-step approach because there are virtually countless situations where certain techniques would not work. Instead I will focus on the mind set of a freelancer and a business man and hopefully change few paradigms along the way.

I'm calling it "Real World Retouching For Retouchers And Photographers" at least at the moment.

Dec 02 12 06:05 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


For curious and inpatient people here is a sneak peek at few random samples from the DVD and they all are part of the section on Bit Depth. Since I won't post the whole section on Bit Depth that has more than 5 h of footage, I would appreciate if you can try to think of them as individual videos. Thank you.

But off course they are meant to be part of a bigger whole and when all of it comes to gather than it really works. smile

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … .Depth.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/T … he.box.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … le.One.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … le.Two.zip

It's still WIP (Work In Progress).

Cheers!
Dec 02 12 06:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
richy01
Posts: 153
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands


Krunoslav-Stifter wrote:
For curious and inpatient people here is a sneak peek at few random samples from the DVD and they all are part of the section on Bit Depth. Since I won't post the whole section on Bit Depth that has more than 5 h of footage, I would appreciate if you can try to think of them as individual videos. Thank you.

But off course they are meant to be part of a bigger whole and when all of it comes to gather than it really works. smile

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … .Depth.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/T … he.box.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … le.One.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … le.Two.zip

It's still WIP (Work In Progress).

Cheers!

Appreciate the testfiles you send me...but are you calling me impatient..?..wink

As I watched the bitdephthepisode..I can imagine you had to explain some to the videoeditor...smile
So to understand correctly, part 1 will be indepth basics one needs to comprehend. Will it include sharpening when and where?
Really curious what part 3 will be

Dec 02 12 06:19 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


richy01 wrote:

Krunoslav-Stifter wrote:
For curious and inpatient people here is a sneak peek at few random samples from the DVD and they all are part of the section on Bit Depth. Since I won't post the whole section on Bit Depth that has more than 5 h of footage, I would appreciate if you can try to think of them as individual videos. Thank you.

But off course they are meant to be part of a bigger whole and when all of it comes to gather than it really works. smile

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … .Depth.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/T … he.box.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … le.One.zip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28508998/Jeff/B … le.Two.zip

It's still WIP (Work In Progress).

Cheers!

Appreciate the testfiles you send me...but are you calling me impatient..?..wink

As I watched the bitdephthepisode..I can imagine you had to explain some to the videoeditor...smile

Video editor? I'm a one man band. I do everything myself. smile

richy01 wrote:
So to understand correctly, part 1 will be indepth basics one needs to comprehend. Will it include sharpening when and where? Really curious what part 3 will be

I was thinking about it but sharpening is pretty straight forward for most uses, except if you really want to go deep with it. I don't know if I will do so myself. I need to see how much time will I have and what is the demand for it.

But in the mean time here is another real world title you can check out while you wait. smile

Real World Image Sharpening

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=608637
http://tinyurl.com/cjyk8o9

Cheers!

Dec 02 12 06:36 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Megan E Griscom
Posts: 444
Bordentown, New Jersey, US


BeauTouch wrote:
Hi Kruno,

I second Frank's suggestion. One can spend hours healing, cloning - focusing on the tiny imperfections but I struggle with evening skin colour and then adding this extra something colour-wise to make the image worthy of a high-end magazine cover.

Also, there are so many techniques for frequency separation - I understand that it all depends on what works for a specific person but I would like to see your way of working on a image using this technique.

Finally, I have always worked on images that would appear on the net and so working in sRGB colour space. It would be nice to see how you prepare the image for a client that would be using a professional print press.

I can't wait for your DVD!

Regards,
Aaron

Exactly! All these things would be amazing. Print worthy skin retouch, frequency separation in more detail, and someone mentioned mood and color.

Dec 02 12 08:32 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


Megan E Griscom wrote:
Exactly! All these things would be amazing. Print worthy skin retouch, frequency separation in more detail, and someone mentioned mood and color.

skin retouch - I covered that in my Dodge and Burn DVD, not sure there is need for me to talk about it again

frequency separation in more detail - may I ask why? It has been one of the most talked about techniques on this forum. I lost the count how many times people wrote about it.

mood and color - to do that properly and exclusive to fashion I would need a lot of suitable images that fit that as well as permissions, and that is more trouble than it's worth. But I will talk about it just not exclusively in this DVD. Although never say never.

I feel a bit like Henry Ford sometimes; you know when he said; if I asked people what they need, they would have told me that they need a faster horse. lol

Question: What have you looked at to learn the things you listed if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious to know. Maybe I can recommend some of the materials you haven't seen yet to explain what you are looking for.

Dec 02 12 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Feverstockphoto
Posts: 588
London, England, United Kingdom


Thanks for sharing those clips. I do think however too much time is spent on the 16bit vs 8bit and the debunking youtube vids or other peoples opinions on what should be used in all cases.... I think you should just show how you see it, make your own case and show it in your workflow (what and when). I'm not saying its not important but i just think you need a faster horse on this part smile
You make some good points and the theory is interseting, with - 15+1 good to know. The outside the box, now that's what i call magic! smile. It demontsrated the idea really well at good pace with nice extra tips. Creating a fully editable/re-editable workflow is still a bit tricky for me, hope you will be touching on this. Thanks again for sharing!

Oh most of my stock images are in uploaded in argb 8bit smile.
Dec 02 12 10:53 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


Feverstockphoto wrote:
Thanks for sharing those clips. I do think however too much time is spent on the 16bit vs 8bit and the debunking youtube vids or other peoples opinions on what should be used in all cases.... I think you should just show how you see it, make your own case and show it in your workflow (what and when). I'm not saying its not important but i just think you need a faster horse on this part smile
You make some good points and the theory is interseting, with - 15+1 good to know. The outside the box, now that's what i call magic! smile. It demontsrated the idea really well at good pace with nice extra tips. Creating a fully editable/re-editable workflow is still a bit tricky for me, hope you will be touching on this. Thanks again for sharing!

Oh most of my stock images are in uploaded in argb 8bit smile.

The reason why I start slowly is that based on my experience most users are not capable of following the more advance stuff and for many users  8 bit vs 16 bit is still a conundrum. The only way I can make it happen is if I build it up from ground up slowly. Example by example. Every example is more advance and I have so far six of them plus some other stuff. So that way a beginners can learn and more advance users can skip ahead if the want to. It's not a movie in a theater it's easy to choose the any video you want and go back and forth as you wish. But like I said at the end it will all make sense, these are out of context and that is what I pointed out at the beginning because that was my main concern about people's reactions.

As far as making my own case, in the upcoming videos I did that, but without the one you saw there is a big gap and for many users it will be too big to understand it and use it properly. I made that video because there are way to many "experts" that show that trick with two gradients and its simply not the whole story. And I decided to explain that on a deeper level. Ultimately it's an experiment like the ones that come after that, and anybody can see what I did and make up their own mind, but one thing I promise - there will be no more confusion behind the 8 bit vs 16 bit debate. And that has been a hot topic on forums for the last decade almost.

Problem is that most tutorials talk about numbers and just say their opinion on the subject of 8 bit vs 16 bit. I am showing on examples what works and what does not work and why so that people can make up their own mind. Plus when I get to the actually retouching I want to convey and experience of real world retouching with as little theory as possible, but without explain the theory first people will ask the opposite of what you are asking - why didn't you explain that or this more.

The only way to make it work is to explain theory first and than do the practice second but at this point I don't need to explain everything in detail, they have learned it in theory section and they can relax and watch the artistic practical side of retouching.

Ultimately this type of comprehensive systematic approach is not for everyone and I am fine with that, but some will appreciate just that and love it and that is my audience.

Thank you for the feedback, BTW. smile

"Creating a fully editable/re-editable workflow is still a bit tricky for me, hope you will be touching on this. Thanks again for sharing!"

It's a big part of what I'm doing and I have also decided to show wrokflow featuring both Lightroom and Camera RAW for different type users. And its all  editable/re-editable workflow as you put it. Not sure if that is what you mean, but I'm sure there will be something you can enjoy or find useful.


"Oh most of my stock images are in uploaded in argb 8bit smile"

Yes, I know. Some have striped down profiles and others are also converted to sRGB, it depends on what stock site, right? Most are 8 bit and using the pseudo 16 bit is a real life saver when you need to work with smooth gradients in already edited stock images.

Dec 02 12 11:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Feverstockphoto
Posts: 588
London, England, United Kingdom


Thanks for the reply and i'm sure when all the pieces of the puzzle are in place it will be a great dvd! smile.
Dec 02 12 12:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 10,108
Santa Ana, California, US


Definitely, definitely, definitely, color grading - It's covered virtually nowhere and it's being used absolutely everywhere.
Dec 02 12 01:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


Feverstockphoto wrote:
Thanks for the reply and i'm sure when all the pieces of the puzzle are in place it will be a great dvd! smile.

Thank you for the feedback. smile

John Allan wrote:
Definitely, definitely, definitely, color grading - It's covered virtually nowhere and it's being used absolutely everywhere.

Oh, boy, I knew this will come up. lol

All those How do I get this look threads, yup I knew it. But here is the situation. Everyone wants to see the fashion images and that fashion editorial looks etc. Getting the proper image that allow for that to look good and be demonstrated are hard to come by. They are expensive to shoot usually, require good team and on top of everything I need permissions to give it away in the DVD and to be used in it. Not many photographs are qualified and willing to provide those images. And I am not as famous or connected to make it happen easily at this point. Maybe in the future, who knows.

There is also a private reason I won't do it at the moment. And if I was going to do it I would want to do it properly and that requires a lot of preparation. So to avoid all that trouble I decided to tackle other problems. As for color grading techniques they will be in the DVD, but they will not be applied to fashion images so I'm not sure how people will respond to that.

Ultimately showing the techniques on any images is easy but showing them on images that work with that technique that is another matter entirely.

But that aside what exactly would you like to see in a DVD like that? I have a pretty good idea what people want to see but I'm still going to ask. big_smile

Dec 02 12 01:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
raffaele montillo
Posts: 61
Bologna, Emilia-Romagna, Italy


hi kruno,
i found on the web some people who told me your previous dvd is fantastic, so i thought to buy it..

but my first problem is to understand what you say..

ok, i know to learn english is good, but it isn't so simple and i know there are other many people like me

so, my suggest is to create subtitles:
even if subtitles are in english, i could understand your lessons reading your words.

i think it is no so difficult, you should simply write what you are saying, but for someone like me, it would make the difference.

other things could be:

- what is and when i could use a saturation mask
- how can i mask the hair with blends mode
- color of the skin

rafa
wink
Dec 02 12 01:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


raffaele montillo wrote:
hi kruno,
i found on the web some people who told me your previous dvd is fantastic, so i thought to buy it..

but my first problem is to understand what you say..

ok, i know to learn english is good, but it isn't so simple and i know there are other many people like me

so, my suggest is to create subtitles:
even if subtitles are in english, i could understand your lessons reading your words.

i think it is no so difficult, you should simply write what you are saying, but for someone like me, it would make the difference.

other things could be:

- what is and when i could use a saturation mask
- how can i mask the hair with blends mode
- color of the skin

rafa
wink

First of all thank you for the support.

It's not a bad idea as an idea, but implementation could be. I mean even if I would to transcript everything it would be somewhat distracting to watch what I'm doing on screen and reading subtitles wouldn't it?

Dec 02 12 01:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
raffaele montillo
Posts: 61
Bologna, Emilia-Romagna, Italy


Krunoslav-Stifter wrote:
... I mean even if I would to transcript everything it would be somewhat distracting to watch what I'm doing on screen and reading subtitles wouldn't it?

yes, it could be but:
- who konws english, can deactivate the subtitles
- who doesn't know english (like me) can read, listen and watch some parts every time he needs to understand. without, people like me, has non chance

rafa
sad

Dec 02 12 02:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


raffaele montillo wrote:
yes, it could be but:
- who konws english, can deactivate the subtitles
- who doesn't know english (like me) can read, listen and watch some parts every time he needs to understand. without, people like me, has non chance

rafa
sad

Well, for your future I would say that learning English is a better option for you because it allows you to read, write and listen to things that are not in Italian. After all, I'm not an English native speaker as well, and if I did not learn English I could never learn what I know now. So even if my DVD would be with subtitles you would miss out on all the other DVD and wonderful content that is still without subtitles and worthy of listening. Let this obstacle be a point in your life where you adapt to the ever-changing world instead if trying to adapt the world to your little corner of it. And I'm saying this with best intention. smile

Off all the people who I know and wrote to me, you are the only person with this request so simply there is no critical mass of users to invest in such a feature. But here is really funny story. Chinese also have trouble with English, so you know what they did. They actually audio dubbed my DVD and are selling it as pirated version in China. I got some emails from people about this from China telling me about it.

As much as I don't like the fact that someone is selling it elsewhere illegally, I am flattered and amazed at the same time. My hats of to them. Supposedly they have pirated the entire Photosohop as well. What is one more DVD to them, right? lol

Dec 02 12 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Megan E Griscom
Posts: 444
Bordentown, New Jersey, US


Krunoslav-Stifter wrote:

skin retouch - I covered that in my Dodge and Burn DVD, not sure there is need for me to talk about it again

frequency separation in more detail - may I ask why? It has been one of the most talked about techniques on this forum. I lost the count how many times people wrote about it.

mood and color - to do that properly and exclusive to fashion I would need a lot of suitable images that fit that as well as permissions, and that is more trouble than it's worth. But I will talk about it just not exclusively in this DVD. Although never say never.

I feel a bit like Henry Ford sometimes; you know when he said; if I asked people what they need, they would have told me that they need a faster horse. lol

Question: What have you looked at to learn the things you listed if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious to know. Maybe I can recommend some of the materials you haven't seen yet to explain what you are looking for.

So far I've watched youtube videos that were reccomended in this forum..and bits of Natalias dvd. I have followed HFS to the letter many times and I just dont see any difference. The changes are so minimal that it is not worth the effort. Perhaps I'm missing something but I dont how, I have done it so many times from so many diff sources. Ive reached out to retouchers on this forum to ask what their process was and many have told me they dont even use HFS.

So its just a confusing concept for me...

Dec 02 12 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


Megan E Griscom wrote:

So far I've watched youtube videos that were reccomended in this forum..and bits of Natalias dvd. I have followed HFS to the letter many times and I just dont see any difference. The changes are so minimal that it is not worth the effort. Perhaps I'm missing something but I dont how, I have done it so many times from so many diff sources. Ive reached out to retouchers on this forum to ask what their process was and many have told me they dont even use HFS.

So its just a confusing concept for me...

I guess what you are saying is that you would like someone to put it all together for you in a nice packet and narrate it. There is an idea for the DVD. Unfortunately it has been covered a lot so I want to do something different and that is what I'm doing now.

If you haven't check some of these resources, they cover much of what you said.
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st16656758

Dec 02 12 03:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
raffaele montillo
Posts: 61
Bologna, Emilia-Romagna, Italy


Krunoslav-Stifter wrote:
Let this obstacle be a point in your life where you adapt to the ever-changing world instead if trying to adapt the world to your little corner of it. l

kruno, i really know i must improve my english and i really don't want to change the world around me..

i think you could sell more dvd if you put more people in the condition to understand your learnings

i don't think this is a good reason for adding subtitles.. i'm saying this is a real scenario and, for marketing, it might be a good idea. no more.

if you don't think so, sorry for my suggestion
rafa
smile

Dec 02 12 03:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Krunoslav Stifter
Posts: 3,872
Santa Cruz, California, US


raffaele montillo wrote:

kruno, i really know i must improve my english and i really don't want to change the world around me..

i think you could sell more dvd if you put more people in the condition to understand your learnings

i don't think this is a good reason for adding subtitles.. i'm saying this is a real scenario and, for marketing, it might be a good idea. no more.

if you don't think so, sorry for my suggestion
rafa
smile

Thank you for the suggestion, but I don't think it will be available on this one. Sorry.

Dec 02 12 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Zoltan Retoucher
Posts: 130
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


In Balance Photography wrote:
I would like to see you take a number of before and after images (from the masses) (RAW and PSD) and then pick them apart, and make them better. Kind of like - "You missed this", or "I see what you were trying to do here, but this is a better result (or a better way)".

Check him out for this work http://www.zarihsretouching.com/

Dec 02 12 03:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ruben Vasquez
Posts: 3,115
Puyallup, Washington, US


Megan E Griscom wrote:

So far I've watched youtube videos that were reccomended in this forum..and bits of Natalias dvd. I have followed HFS to the letter many times and I just dont see any difference. The changes are so minimal that it is not worth the effort. Perhaps I'm missing something but I dont how, I have done it so many times from so many diff sources. Ive reached out to retouchers on this forum to ask what their process was and many have told me they dont even use HFS.

So its just a confusing concept for me...

If you have Natalia's dvd, she demonstrates one major advantage the split frequency seperation technique offers in the skin retouching segment. Essentially, healing on the high frequency layer ignores color and luminosity but instead, focuses on texture which is particularly useful when retouching around edges. Were you to use the healing brush on an empty layer or a duplicated layer, it would transfer and blend texture, color and luminosity in one fell swoop. If that isn't a concern, then a split isn't necessary. If you want to work on those elements individually however, then doing a split is advisable.

Dec 03 12 03:52 am  Link  Quote 
123last   Search   Reply