P I X I E wrote:
I don't read minds. I prefer to have more direction than not enough.

Exactly.

I never just stand still. I move around, but if I'm not doing what you want, you have to tell me that. Give directions that make sense and I'll follow them.

Isabella55 wrote:
Really it depends on the model and what YOU want. I'm an actor so improvising at shoots is the main fun for me, but if a photographer tells me to do something,  I always take the direction. If a model seems shy, then by all means direction would help. However, if the model is confident in their choices but there is still something you want in the shoot, it is their job to execute it and should still be communicated by the photographer.

I've been modeling for 4 years, and I still tend to work better with direction rather than without. That's just how *I* work. Doesn't make me any less talented.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:

Exactly.

I never just stand still. I move around, but if I'm not doing what you want, you have to tell me that. Give directions that make sense and I'll follow them.

+1

I always ask at the start of a shoot if there are any particular poses the photographer wants me to do.

After that I just do my own thing. That comes with experience though.
If the model is new you may have to direct her. For more experienced models, you may be able to do less directing unless you want a specific pose.

When someone hires me I don't expect them to give me any directions with regards to posing. That's part of the reason why they hired me.

NicoleNudes wrote:
1

I always ask at the start of a shoot if there are any particular poses the photographer wants me to do.

After that I just do my own thing. That comes with experience though.
If the llama is new you may have to direct her. For more experienced llamas, you may be able to do less directing unless you want a specific pose.

When someone hires me I don't expect them to give me any directions with regards to posing. That's part of the reason why they hired me.

...works for me with my hired experienced professional llamas!
1

P I X I E wrote:

I've been modeling for 4 years, and I still tend to work better with direction rather than without. That's just how *I* work. Doesn't make me any less talented.

...no siree Bob...Uhm Pixie !
You are indeed a talented model.

dgold wrote:

...no siree Bob...Uhm Pixie !
You are indeed a talented model.

Thank you.

Camerosity wrote:
At the beginning of a shoot, I tell the model the looks, moods, expressions, etc., that I want. I tell her which is the main light and how much freedom of movement she'll have (and again each time I change the lighting).

I also tell her when I'm shooting full-lengths, 3/4 lengths, waist up, etc. - so she'll know what area her hands need to be in.

If the model gives me the poses and looks I want, I give only minor instructions - as briefly as possible to avoid breaking the flow of the shoot.

"Head back." "Chin up." "Eyes toward me." "Right hand above your waist." "Arch your back." Things like that. From time to time I'll suggest a completely different pose.

Same with expressions. "Pouty." "Angry" "Confused." "Vulnerable." "Attitude." "Part your lips." "Stare me down."

If I say "that's great" or "let's work with that," it means that I want very small variations in pose for the next several shots. If I say "perfect light," that means I want very little movement in the model's head position for the next shots.

If it becomes obvious that more direction is required, I give more direction until I have the look I'm going for.

This is exactly what I like to have as a model.  It's nice to know what the goal of the shoot is at the beginning.  The photographer has a different point of view than I do as a model, so its nice to know if what I am doing is working or needs some adjustment.  I think a partnership between the photographer and model gives the best results.  The model may have ideas the photographer doesn't and vice versa.

Camerosity wrote:
"Head back." "Chin up." "Eyes toward me." "Right hand above your waist." "Arch your back." "Head slightly to the right." Things like that.

This like this are super helpful to me. I know what my pose and expression are like without seeing it, but from your camera's angle it might need a little change to look right.

Alabaster Crowley wrote:

This like this are super helpful to me. I know what my pose and expression are like without seeing it, but from your camera's angle it might need a little change to look right.

Yep yep yep!

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I do photography as more of a hobby, but still I don't always like to give models a whole lot of direction for the sake of something genuine. Some models seem fine with improvising while some seem at a complete stand-still until they are told what to do. What is the best balance for giving a model direction from a model's point of view?

The photographer is the one conducting the shoot.  You need to have a creative vision before you begin the shoot.  You need to convey your ideas to the model so she can make them in to reality.  If you can't provide adequate direction it's not likely you're going to be happy with the results.  It's OK if a model improvises to some extent but you really need to let her know what you're looking for.

Top Gun Digital wrote:
The photographer is the one conducting the shoot.  You need to have a creative vision before you begin the shoot.  You need to convey your ideas to the model so she can make them in to reality.  If you can't provide adequate direction it's not likely you're going to be happy with the results.  It's OK if a model improvises to some extent but you really need to let her know what you're looking for.

I agree 100%

Camerosity wrote:
It depends on the model.

Most of the models I work with can pose themselves better than I could pose them - and with more natural results.

At the beginning of a shoot, I tell the model the looks, moods, expressions, etc., that I want. I tell her which is the main light and how much freedom of movement she'll have (and again each time I change the lighting).

I also tell her when I'm shooting full-lengths, 3/4 lengths, waist up, etc. - so she'll know what area her hands need to be in.

If the model gives me the poses and looks I want, I give only minor instructions - as briefly as possible to avoid breaking the flow of the shoot.

"Head back." "Chin up." "Eyes toward me." "Right hand above your waist." "Arch your back." "Head slightly to the right." Things like that. From time to time I'll suggest a completely different pose.

Same with expressions. "Pouty." "Angry" "Confused." "Fierce." "Vulnerable." "Attitude." "Part your lips." "Stare me down."

If I say "that's great" or "let's work with that," it means that I want very small variations in pose for the next several shots. If I say "perfect light," that means I want very little movement in the model's head position for the next shots.

If I'm working with a very experienced model I've worked with before, I may appoint her vice president in charge of posing (inside joke) at the beginning of the shoot - but I still give direction as needed.

If it becomes obvious that more direction is required, I give more direction until I have the look I'm going for.

+1  In my opinion, most models, no matter how experienced they are, work better with some kind of direction...after all, we can't see what you see...what we may think looks great, may look better with that turn of the head or whatever the case may be.  I know I'm still learning all the time and always love getting good direction...I recently did a shoot with a guy who really knows how to position you so your butt looks better, your legs longer, etc...it may be uncomfortable as hell and awkward at times but it works, so I'm always thankful to the photographers who tell me these things. 

Misty R H wrote:
This is exactly what I like to have as a model.  It's nice to know what the goal of the shoot is at the beginning.

Actually it's best if the shoot is planned in advance and everyone is on the same page before they show up for the shoot. Before the shoot, in most cases, we each have photos showing the looks we're discussing, and we've either seen the wardrobe or have photos of it. Everyone knows what we're shooting and in what order.

Everyone knows in advance what to expect and what's expected. If there's a prop or accessory that would complete the look, we have it before the shoot. )"Hey, does anyone know where to find a white dove on a Sunday evening?" You get the idea.)

When everything is decided in advance, there's time for mental pictures to form in my head. Shooting the mental picture in my head is a lot easier than trying to figure out what to do when I get the first look at the garment, location or whatever at the beginning of the shoot. It seems to make the model more comfortable as well.

That doesn't mean we can't improvise during the shoot. But it's always better to have a plan.

P I X I E wrote:
I don't read minds. I prefer to have more direction than not enough. Unless we've shot a couple times together, I don't really know how you work.

Direction exists on different levels. First, direction should be discussed before the shoot based on the concept. Second you can direct a model's every move. Third you can refine a model's poses as needed. I prefer the first and third. If I have to direct a model too much during the shoot, the poses become mine and not the model's. While my portfolio may benefit, why any model would want a portfolio that isn't really her work is beyond me.

P I X I E wrote:
I don't read minds. I prefer to have more direction than not enough. Unless we've shot a couple times together, I don't really know how you work.

EXCELLENT POINT!

P I X I E wrote:

I've been modeling for 4 years, and I still tend to work better with direction rather than without. That's just how *I* work. Doesn't make me any less talented.

EXCELLENT RESPONSE AGAIN!!

Gabrielle Heather wrote:


I am NOT fond of place your right hand slightly higher up 2 inches, and tilt your head to the right just a little then turn your foot outwards and move a bit to the right and, oh yeah now move that left hand onto your thigh........ then repeat another bunch of steps in a row....... ok, Ill do it as long as you pay me with a smile but I wont enjoy it so much.

I think you may be referring to one of my posts. Or, maybe not. Anyway I'll explain my rationale -just in case.

First, I'm old school. It used to be that models were trained to show two hands (with at least four fingers of each hand), two arms (not one hidden behind the body - or seemingly growing out of a boob at the elbow), two legs and two feet in photos.

Well, you don't want to see feet in a headshot, but I think you get the idea.

Also, I believe that white should show on both sides of the eyes. If a model is facing slightly away but turns her eyes back to the camera, for example, there may be white on only one side of each eye. The model can't see what I see - so when I see that, I'll direct her to look in a direction that will show white on both sides of the eye.

There are a lot of people on MM who disregard (or aren't aware of) these "rules." But I assure that there are many photo editors and art directors who pay attention to these things.

I tell models what area I'm shooting - headshots, waist-up, 3/4 length or full length. If you're shooting waist-up shots, you don't want the model's hands below the waist. Either you crop off her hand(s), or you turn what we both intended to be a waist-up pose into a 3/4 length or a full length.

If I'm shooting verticals, and the model's arms are outstretched so that it becomes a horizontal shot, and/or her hands are extended past the edge of the background (often a 14-foot wide cyc wall), I'll have her bring her arms back in.

If I'm shooting the model head-on, and she bends her knee and puts the bottom of her foot against the wall (not the cyc wall, obviously), she looks like an amputee. From the side, that pose often works - but not from the front.

If the main light is to the model's left, and she keeps facing right, and her face is in shadow (or maybe a wisp of hair is making a ghastly dark shadow down the middle of her cheek), generally I'll say something.

There's a phenomenon known as a "split profile," where a model's nose breaks the line of the cheek that's farthest from the camera. It's not flattering. Turning her head 2-3 inches back toward the camera will fix it.

In every shoot I will knowingly waste many shots by not mentioning these things, because I don't want to give such frequent direction that I don't want to break the flow or make the model self-conscious. Often the model will get back on track after 2-3 poses.

But at some point, if I'm not getting the look that's needed, I have to bring the model back to that look and get some usable shots.

And if a model is in what would be the "pose of the day," except for one flaw in the pose - I'll correct it right then. I don't want the pose of the day to end up as a reject.

Fortunately most of the models I work with (even on trade shoots) are experienced enough that the issues are minor and relatively infrequent.

Gabrielle Heather wrote:
I am NOT fond of place your right hand slightly higher up 2 inches, and tilt your head to the right just a little then turn your foot outwards and move a bit to the right and, oh yeah now move that left hand onto your thigh........ then repeat another bunch of steps in a row....... ok, Ill do it as long as you pay me with a smile but I wont enjoy it so much.

I agree. I had a photographer try to pose every square inch of me, and get annoyed and treat me like I was stupid when I didn't understand "rotate your thumb" vs "pivot your thumb." He would take ONE shot, then start all over. I wasn't allowed to move at all on my own.

I never got photos back from him. I'm not sure if that's related

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
I do photography as more of a hobby, but still I don't always like to give models a whole lot of direction for the sake of something genuine. Some models seem fine with improvising while some seem at a complete stand-still until they are told what to do. What is the best balance for giving a model direction from a model's point of view?

Learn good body posture and  limb poses and angles..  Know what you want to end up with..     If I find it needed,  I will tell the model  what move I would like for her,,  but in a flowing conversation I will explain how that makes the pose better,   and not cause bad distortion  with a  squarshed leg ,  comfortable poses are the best place to start..  then lead on with modification...Most models love to learn why poses work,  ands what is awkward..

Select Models wrote:
Giving Models Direction???

Some need it... some don't!  On my 200 image port, I gave direction to at least 80% of them... including Roxanne on the Cruiseboat Photoshoot...

This type of photo turns me off.    I would not produce something with all the lines,   distorted body,  and a background that  distracts,  feet bigger than legs etc.

Anna Adrielle wrote:
some models can move just fine: don't direct those

I don't think a photographer should never direct a model at all. Maybe s/he is moving well, but that doesn't mean s/he can read the photographer's mind and do exactly what they want.

Harold Rose wrote:
This type of photo turns me off.    I would not produce something with all the lines,   distorted body,  and a background that  distracts,  feet bigger than legs etc.

Unsolicited critique. Not good.

Harold Rose wrote:
This type of photo turns me off.    I would not produce something with all the lines,   distorted body,  and a background that  distracts,  feet bigger than legs etc.

That's OK dude... I don't create digital art designed to excite you... and your unsolicited critique means ZIP to me (you tell'm AC babe).  I've got dozens of comments and lists on this image from people who think it's cool... all that matters here.  Here's another one I'm sure you'll love...


Oh and PS... I got more comments on one of my pics, than you have in your entire port... and you've been here SIX years...

dave phoenix wrote:
i don't think that a great llama needs no direction.

i think a great llama takes direction well, and can make suggestions or variations on a pose given to her, to provide the photographer with different options, perhaps even including something better than what he had in mind when he directed her into a pose.

Bingo!