Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
I'm just wondering how long do you wait for paid images. Just an average time frame would be nice to know. ( yes I understand its normally whatever the client and photographer agree on but what is the average?)
Photographers are more then welcome to chime in on how long they normally take before delivering final prints/images.
Currently I think I am being stiffed on my very pricey images I paid for... shoot was back in april and no images as of today....
As you say it depends on the agreement, some clients may need them the next day some a week some maybe a couple of weeks or more.
It should not take as long as you have been waiting. Not sure how insistent you have been but you might want to more insistent and gather some info supporting your situation: receipts, cancelled check, emails, whatever.
Yeah, that's far beyond reasonable and well into ridiculous! I would have tried to have basic lightly edited photos available for you to proof in about a week, two weeks on the outside and once you pick your favorites that get a little more post work no reason you shouldn't have the final images within 30 days.
NewBoldPhoto
Posts: 4,646
PORT MURRAY, New Jersey, US
Bella la Bell wrote: I'm just wondering how long do you wait for paid images. Just an average time frame would be nice to know. ( yes I understand its normally whatever the client and photographer agree on but what is the average?)
Photographers are more then welcome to chime in on how long they normally take before delivering final prints/images.
Currently I think I am being stiffed on my very pricey images I paid for... shoot was back in april and no images as of today....
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
Through Elizabeths Eyes wrote: Uh, yeah, that's way too long to wait. I'd be raising hell about that.
Generally whatever you agreed on, but I'd say no longer than 6 weeks, tops.
I'm pissed. Due to a number of reasons.
The images have been well pass the 2-3month max time frame.
When emailed about the images the photographer said I never sent the email with the images I want edited. But I find that hard to believe when I had a quick email saying they got them after I originally send them. So I send them AGAIN and no images now after 3months
I have a cd of useless unedited images I can't use.
I'm pissed bacause from what was advertised I was suppost to get one on one time, ended up I was grouped with a round 6 other girls and we were cycled in and out of the sets. It was uncomfortable to pose with them around because some of the images I did for my husband and he has left for Alaska without those promised images I wanted to give to him on his birthday.
Its sad because this guy is a fucking big shot in the pinup world and he cleans up nice for how much he charged but I don't see a single edited image.
The first time I ever pay for a shoot and I feel screwed over. It sucks because there is this local arist I want to pay to work with them and now I'm scared I am going to have the same experience...
The images have been well pass the 2-3month max time frame.
When emailed about the images the photographer said I never sent the email with the images I want edited. But I find that hard to believe when I had a quick email saying they got them after I originally send them. So I send them AGAIN and no images now after 3months
I have a cd of useless unedited images I can't use.
I'm pissed bacause from what was advertised I was suppost to get one on one time, ended up I was grouped with a round 6 other girls and we were cycled in and out of the sets. It was uncomfortable to pose with them around because some of the images I did for my husband and he has left for Alaska without those promised images I wanted to give to him on his birthday.
Its sad because this guy is a fucking big shot in the pinup world and he cleans up nice for how much he charged but I don't see a single edited image.
The first time I ever pay for a shoot and I feel screwed over. It sucks because there is this local arist I want to pay to work with them and now I'm scared I am going to have the same experience...
I'd point blank ask for your money back now. Maybe contact the other models that were there and see if they've gotten their images?
Mischa Marie
Posts: 7,891
Sacramento, California, US
Bella la Bell wrote:
I'm pissed. Due to a number of reasons.
The images have been well pass the 2-3month max time frame.
When emailed about the images the photographer said I never sent the email with the images I want edited. But I find that hard to believe when I had a quick email saying they got them after I originally send them. So I send them AGAIN and no images now after 3months
I have a cd of useless unedited images I can't use.
I'm pissed bacause from what was advertised I was suppost to get one on one time, ended up I was grouped with a round 6 other girls and we were cycled in and out of the sets. It was uncomfortable to pose with them around because some of the images I did for my husband and he has left for Alaska without those promised images I wanted to give to him on his birthday.
Its sad because this guy is a fucking big shot in the pinup world and he cleans up nice for how much he charged but I don't see a single edited image.
The first time I ever pay for a shoot and I feel screwed over. It sucks because there is this local arist I want to pay to work with them and now I'm scared I am going to have the same experience...
I think I know who youre talking about.... send me a message if you want. If its who im thinking of. Hes in my port if its the same person.
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
NewBoldPhoto wrote:
At this point the shooter owes you a refund.
I have no clue how to go about that.
I think I will just wash my hands of this.
If I bad mouth that photographer they are so well known no one is going to believe me on my side. So I have no clue what to do other then just let it be that I lost out on a huge about of money. Next time I want to pay for a shoot I will go to photographers I have worked with in the past or with some true warning before hand.
Sad that I adored this person and now I have to say that I am so disappointed in them.
Bella la Bell wrote: I have no clue how to go about that.
I think I will just wash my hands of this.
If I bad mouth that photographer they are so well known no one is going to believe me on my side. So I have no clue what to do other then just let it be that I lost out on a huge about of money. Next time I want to pay for a shoot I will go to photographers I have worked with in the past or with some true warning before hand.
Sad that I adored this person and now I have to say that I am so disappointed in them.
Do you have a receipt? You could take that to a small claims court since you didn't get the product you paid for.
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
Through Elizabeths Eyes wrote:
I'd point blank ask for your money back now. Maybe contact the other models that were there and see if they've gotten their images?
I think on the day I shot was with a lot of house wife or average day ladies. I didn't see any of the regular models I normally run into on that day. But I will pm a few gals and poke around. I want to email him but don't want this to a fight or something on the lines of that.
Legally I have no clue what I can and can't do. I have been shooting for a few years now and never ran into this issue before. Thanks for the advice too btw Elizabeth, I know your more seasoned on how to handle these issues.
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
Kitty LaRose wrote:
Do you have a receipt? You could take that to a small claims court since you didn't get the product you paid for.
I have emails and the unedited images he gave me.
I really don't want to go to court over this. That might cost me just as much as it did to pay for the images.
This photographer is is just counting your money.
Photographers with a decent workflow should be able to produce pics in less than two weeks. My clients do at least.
I think it is a problem with photographers and models that they charge each other for what's supposed to be a collaborative pursuit. I never pay a model especially an untested one unless she doesn't mind me billing her for my day rate, travel expenses, equipment rental and insurance which I can do. Likewise, a model shouldn't be paying a photographer to shoot with them period because like you just found out they are unproven.
Who pays then: clients that hire you for a job no one else.
Bella la Bell wrote: I have emails and the unedited images he gave me.
I really don't want to go to court over this. That might cost me just as much as it did to pay for the images.
I am lost to be honest on what to do.
Something like this happened to me a few years ago. I received all the unedited proofs, but when it came time for him to give me my edits I had selected, his computer mysterious "died" and took the memory card with it. I gave the higher res images to retouchers and salvaged my loss that way.
But. I also didn't pay that photographer. I know you want to just let this go, but if the amount is as large as you've made it sound, the photographer in question shouldn't just get away with it, either.
Ivanafox
Posts: 977
Healesville, Victoria, Australia
Treat it like any other business transaction you make. If you had gone to a store and bought furniture and they said it would be delivered in 6 weeks and didn't, would you still be waiting and wondering whether to write it off 6 months later?
Surely there is a consumer advocate you can take your documentation to who will make the photographer honour the terms of the business transaction? What matters to you more, getting walked all over, or having an unreputable photographer maybe tell others that you demanded you get what you were owed?
But it sounds to me like you have already decided that it's all to hard to bother with. You have lots of excuses!
Dark Shadows wrote: Unless you shot with one of the top 10 photographers in the world, I think most would agree that 6-7 months is too long to be considered 'reasonable'.
Bella la Bell wrote: I'm just wondering how long do you wait for paid images. Just an average time frame would be nice to know. ( yes I understand its normally whatever the client and photographer agree on but what is the average?)
Photographers are more then welcome to chime in on how long they normally take before delivering final prints/images.
Currently I think I am being stiffed on my very pricey images I paid for... shoot was back in april and no images as of today....
WOW, April,,,that is way too long
Personally, depends on how busy life is 5-10 days is the norm,,, if it is crazy/wild,,, I call and tell you 14 days tops...They are out and on the way on the 14th day... sleep or not...
Bella la Bell wrote: I'm just wondering how long do you wait for paid images. Just an average time frame would be nice to know. ( yes I understand its normally whatever the client and photographer agree on but what is the average?)
Photographers are more then welcome to chime in on how long they normally take before delivering final prints/images.
Currently I think I am being stiffed on my very pricey images I paid for... shoot was back in april and no images as of today....
You paid the Photographer for the shoot? You should have had your photos within a week.
Yeah... that's too long to wait. Get your money back. Check your contract (I'm assuming there was one since you paid?) on time, send a certified letter to his studio asking for the return of your money or the promised photos by XXXXXX, and if he doesn't respond, talk to an attorney. You were promised goods, and he didn't provide them, so he's a thief.
Darren Brade
Posts: 1,697
London, England, United Kingdom
Bella la Bell wrote: I have no clue how to go about that.
I think I will just wash my hands of this.
If I bad mouth that photographer they are so well known no one is going to believe me on my side. So I have no clue what to do other then just let it be that I lost out on a huge about of money. Next time I want to pay for a shoot I will go to photographers I have worked with in the past or with some true warning before hand.
Sad that I adored this person and now I have to say that I am so disappointed in them.
1. Send a polite email (have a friend proof read it first to check for friendliness) asking how long it will now take now you've resent your selection.
2. Exactly 7 days later call him.
3. Further 7 days later knock the door of his studio.
Remember to be always calm and polite but never just give up.
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,000
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
My contract states no longer than 14 days for TFP shoots. If you can't manage to deliver a half-dozen finished images in that time you're in the wrong business, even if you have paid-work stacked-up (in which case send a polite email to the model explaining that you're terribly busy, you've not forgotten all about her and here's a couple to 'keep her going' etc.)...
For PAID shoots where you pay up front (and why would you even do that?), then by not delivering the images the photographer is to my mind, guilty of fraud at the very least and should be reported to your local law enforcement.
Get 'proper' legal advice, not just 'opinion-endo' from myself and others here on MM.
Bella la Bell wrote: Legally I have no clue what I can and can't do.
Small claims court. If you paid for the shoot you are entitled to your edited prints or your money back. It is pretty simple. Send him a polite letter asking him for your photos by a specific date or a full refund of your money. If it doesn't happen, speak to the small claims clerk. There is probably a free adviser at your court.
LA StarShooter
Posts: 1,126
Beverly Hills, California, US
Carthago delenda est. That was said by Cato the Elder at the conclusion of all his speeches, even on none related to Carthage. Although he may have said it slightly different, his ancient wisdom is relevant, in that Carthage, in this a case, a photographer must be destroyed.
He has prevaricated. He may have even lied. That you quiver that other photographers might think badly of you, if you enforce your rights, is similar to the senators who were Cato's primary important. They didn't want to think about Carthage as they thought about lands laws, the possibility of wheat allowances for the poor, the penalties for crimes and they quivered at the thought of total war against Carthage, war that would end in the losing city being enslaved possibly.
Eventually, they salted the land of the city of Carthage to make it worthless, and they had a mighty empire. And they would have liked to have used that land, but, Carthago delenda est.
First, Carthago delenda est, because that's your money. He's keeping your money because he likes your money but doesn't want to give you anything for it. The Romans called that theft and when it came to the matter of reputation they considered that important and your reputation is very important and so is his.
Can a photographer just rip you off? Make it clear to him that it is clear that so far he has shown you no consideration and you will let people know that he unreliable, unprofessional, and has the character of a thief. You have a great story for local television news in his area. It's very emotional.
I just pounded a corporation that treated me with incompetent disdain and offered to let people know how they had treated me. Once, I charged them with the accusation that it looked like they were keeping my money for the interest, that the multiple and serious problems showed they didn't care about me, they gave me moolah beyond what was owed, because it was clear that I would create a blog, I would talk to the newspaper, to television, and so they made a gesture straight away once it become clear how they had with great incompetence messed up my life.
Sometimes you have to confront people. Rich people, people who have pulled themselves up, and built their own business know this. They know that they should fight the parking ticket, and they will spend many hours on $75 or a $350 dispute. Why? Time is not money to them because when you establish a habit of rolling over, like a tame puppy, you will lose a lot of money and you will have the wrong mindset for confronting the problems of life.
Evie_Wolfe
Posts: 660
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
Hi Bella,
I'm sorry, I have no advice - I just wanted to say I'm sorry something similar has happened in my life recently, (not a photographer, but something creative) and I understand how horrible it can feel being trapped by the other party's reputation.
I really really hope you get your money back, Bella. Maybe you could get permission from the photographer to have the images retouched by someone else? It is a real pity that the other girls in the group aren't folks you have contact with, as it is possible they were also miss-sold a one-on-one package and have struggled to get their images.
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
ei Total Productions wrote:
Small claims court. If you paid for the shoot you are entitled to your edited prints or your money back. It is pretty simple. Send him a polite letter asking him for your photos by a specific date or a full refund of your money. If it doesn't happen, speak to the small claims clerk. There is probably a free adviser at your court.
Six months is way too long if you paid the guy.
I will look into this. I am not much for knowing all the legal things I can do but pretty sure my brother can help me some what, he is in school for his pre law. So I can call and at least find out.
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
MWNudes wrote: Yeah... that's too long to wait. Get your money back. Check your contract (I'm assuming there was one since you paid?) on time, send a certified letter to his studio asking for the return of your money or the promised photos by XXXXXX, and if he doesn't respond, talk to an attorney. You were promised goods, and he didn't provide them, so he's a thief.
P.S. And shoot with me again.
Thanks!
P.S. we shall! Its almost snow season and that is most fun to shoot in!
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,432
Kansas City, Missouri, US
Evie_Wolfe wrote: Hi Bella,
I'm sorry, I have no advice - I just wanted to say I'm sorry something similar has happened in my life recently, (not a photographer, but something creative) and I understand how horrible it can feel being trapped by the other party's reputation.
I really really hope you get your money back, Bella. Maybe you could get permission from the photographer to have the images retouched by someone else? It is a real pity that the other girls in the group aren't folks you have contact with, as it is possible they were also miss-sold a one-on-one package and have struggled to get their images.
I really hope this works out for you xx
Evie x
Thank you Evie.
I am going to collect all my emails, review them and make a very professional statement emailed to him about my images. Its sad when I have to think about getting a lawyer or going to small claims court... I really don't want to go that way but feeling veeryyyy forced into it.
My contract says I'll have proofs up in a week, they get one week to make their choices (or I will), then three weeks they will have digital images. I generally get it done in a week, but if things are crazy, three weeks can happen. If I know I'm crazy booked, I might up that as much as six weeks, but that would be the max.
Truly, I'd be surprised if anyone takes over two months, but who knows.
OP - assuming your agreement with the photographer was reasonably well documented, small claims court is your friend. Filing fees are usually nominal (typically $50. - 100. depending on state). I gather the photographer in question is a pro - in that case, also file a report with the local Better Business Bureau. Be a nuisance - it may well be easier for him to give you a refund than having to protect his credit rating and reputation.
Regardless of what each photographer uses as a reasonable delivery time - whether it's 5 days or 1 month - nobody will dispute that 6 months for receipt of images is a breach of the contract (even if there was no specific delivery date documented in the agreement). No court would consider 6 months a reasonable delivery time.
Small claims is your best bet as others have said. I believe in my area it costs $35 to file a claim. No attorneys are needed. If you have all your documentation - emails, agreement, etc - organized well it should be an easy settlement.
Maybe when the photographer sees you're not going to let it go and that he has to take time out of his day/income to address it you'll miraculously get your images.
Whatever you do, do not wash your hands of this. The furniture analogy was an excellent one. If you were promised delivery of furniture you wouldn't have waited this long to act and you certainly wouldn't let it slide.
Karl Baxter
Posts: 3,530
Birmingham, England, United Kingdom
Next time agree 50/50 shoot & delivery. Shit happens some times with tests I guess, but if there's cash changing hands, then protect your interests. Sorry you found a bad apple
Bella la Bell wrote: I'm just wondering how long do you wait for paid images. Just an average time frame would be nice to know. ( yes I understand its normally whatever the client and photographer agree on but what is the average?)
Photographers are more then welcome to chime in on how long they normally take before delivering final prints/images.
Currently I think I am being stiffed on my very pricey images I paid for... shoot was back in april and no images as of today....
For paid photos, you shouldn't have to be feel like you're on the back burner. Paid gigs are top priority. 1 week for proofs, 2-3 weeks for edited.
I ALWAYS do some quick edits within 12 hours, so she can at least see that her time (and money) were well spent.
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