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first12
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Jules NYC wrote:
I'm an Art School drop-out.

I graduated from the University of San Francisco and had a Fine Art minor.
The Academy of Art College was too expensive on top of it.

This guy explains it all well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgj5HMpxh3g

I respect education in itself but education doesn't make a smart person smarter or an artful person more artful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2_dGkqYu6M

As for what I do, I sing, I write, I *do*.

Those Who Can’t Do, Teach

I respect teachers too...
Good ones.

You have mastered the Art School Dropout Credo. We can teach you no more. Go forth and spread the word my child.

Oct 10 12 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,514
New York, New York, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
You have mastered the Art School Dropout Credo. We can teach you no more. Go forth and spread the word my child.

I didn't diss education.
You missed the point...

and no, I don't think dropping out of Art School is as 'cool' as people pretending they are hipsters because they wear glasses and retro 80's shirts.

smile

I don't have an axe to grind.
That whole bitter, pissed off vibe is not mine:)

Even with my student loan debt:)

Oct 10 12 08:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Jules NYC wrote:
I didn't diss education.
You missed the point...

and no, I don't think dropping out of Art School is as 'cool' as people pretending they are hipsters because they wear glasses and retro 80's shirts.

smile

I don't have an axe to grind.
That whole bitter, pissed off vibe is not mine:)

Even with my student loan debt:)

I actually didn't mean that sarcastically or in a negative tone at all. It seems the people who really "get it" often drop out of art school with a similar realization.

Or maybe I'm biased because I too am an art school dropout. And I'm definitely not a hipster. In fact, I've never once sat in Starbucks working on my novel. smile

Oct 10 12 08:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,005
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


udor wrote:
What do YOU do to further your skill and knowledge as an artist?

Nothing

Oct 10 12 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,514
New York, New York, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I actually didn't mean that sarcastically or in a negative tone at all. It seems the people who really "get it" often drop out of art school with a similar realization.

Or maybe I'm biased because I too am an art school dropout. And I'm definitely not a hipster. In fact, I've never once sat in Starbucks working on my novel. smile

Ohhhhh my bad, my bad... you actually do GET IT.
smile

Pardon my fire-breathing... years of defending the position.
smile

That last sentence, lol

Oct 10 12 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kincaid Blackwood
Posts: 23,293
Atlanta, Georgia, US


JoJo wrote:
You can teach the basics to most people (and most primates) - they can replicate your teaching - this elevates them to "labourer" status.

You can attempt to motivate and introduce desire to a labourer - if the labourer accepts AND THINKS the labourer's status is elevated to that of craftsman.

Now comes the most difficult part, trying to teach a person "art".
Stop now because you can not teach "art" - you can teach the mechanics of "art", you can teach the fundamentals of "art"... but you can not 'teach' someone how to be artistic - that comes from within.

What schools do you know of which presume to teach people to create art?

A formal education in photography can do a number of things.  It can teach you technique.  Technique is an important process of doing your work, be it photograms, wet plate, digital artistry or whatever.  A formal education can also teach you art history and the history of photography.  An understanding of the important movements in photography and the arts can help to inform your work and put it in the context of history as well as contemporary times.  A formal education in the arts can also provide you with contemporary issues facing photography, something that can be infused into your work and give it depth.  It can connect you to the art community, to gallery representation and curators, to working artists and lecturers, to gallery owners and agents and a host of other people.

Now, if you think that professors are telling students what to do in terms of art, you're mistaken.  The education provides the ground to build upon.  Sometimes students dot have the ideas and the build something weak.  Other times they build things that are complex.  Some are able to build things that are aesthetically beautiful.  A relative handful will create things which are complex and beautiful.  The school provides a foundation and a prompt.  There's some silly notion floating around (typically from people who have never even been to an art school or to a shitty one) that art schools presume to teach someone without talent to make art.  That's ridiculous.  So is the idea that art can only be created outside of an educational environment. 

Pratt.  RISD.  Yale.  UCLA.  These are all schools that are successfully producing artists who get work, recognition, gallery representation and exhibitions.  That is an empirical fact. 

Most of the artist quotes from the centuries which are used in arguments against formal education in the arts are neutral as it relates to such an education.  Often made by successful artists who received an educated in the arts and certainly weren't against it…

Oct 10 12 11:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,488
Houston, Texas, US


udor wrote:
What do YOU do to further your skill and knowledge as an artist?

Please share! smile

Continued practice and self-teaching.

Oct 10 12 11:46 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,514
New York, New York, US


The music school at Yale is free for those who can get in.
Something I think about...

but not everyone can get in or not everyone can afford a posh school.

My university was 26K a year when I attended.
I almost went to Pepperdine which was more.

I do agree that learning fundamentals in any art is extremely important.
That's why I paid the Yale Opera teachers for private instruction for vocal exercises.

I'm a rocker, not an Opera singer, but I figured if I want and keep a four octave range, I have to know technique so I don't get nodes or cord surgery.
Oct 10 12 01:32 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,904
New York, New York, US


I agree with Kincaid.

I attended an arts high school (including composition classes at Yale, yes for free) and studied music at two of the best universities in the country.  When I decided to pursue photography, I also decided to seek an education there as well.

It is about so much more than just learning fundamentals of craft.  Honestly, those who need that level of instruction are pretty much doomed to be second string at best as the real talent coming in already have that aspect of their game down.

And while a quality education may not make you smarter or more talented, it will allow you to do much, much more with what you have at a far quicker pace.

It all depends on the quality you aspire to and how much work you're willing to put in.  I knew some immensely talented people (truly gifted) who never amounted to anything because they were slackers.  I knew others who had much less in the way of natural ability, who worked their asses off to become quite well regarded in their fields.
Oct 10 12 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl JW Johnston
Posts: 9,313
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Constantly read
Oct 11 12 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,703
New York, New York, US


udor wrote:
I constantly am trying to understand art better and the psychology behind art making and human perception. 

Most recently, I think it was two days ago, I downloaded from the documentary channel "Cracking The Colour Code":

I found it interesting and http://assets.modelmayhem.com/images/smilies/scary.pngat the same time that the color vision in males is declining on this extreme rate.

1 in 100 women are color blind, but 10 in 100 men and it's increasing.

It is believed that the color perception becomes much less important for our survival, despite that we have a wide array of colors around us all the time.

This may have quite an impact on color photography when more and more people are unable to view our colorphotography and can't tell what they are actually seeing.

Based on that fact, it may become more important to start shooting in black and white again, just so that more people can enjoy the photos.

Oct 11 12 04:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Supermodel Photographer
Posts: 3,309
Oyster Bay, New York, US


Jules NYC wrote:
What a fucking great short.

Scorcese!

http://youtu.be/1e0Na26J9Mw

Don't you mean Scorsese in this short?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45iZP6AWT3c

Oct 11 12 04:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,514
New York, New York, US


Supermodel Photographer wrote:

Don't you mean Scorsese in this short?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45iZP6AWT3c

NICE

and shit, I spelled his name wrong blargh
Scorsese !! ha ha

Oct 11 12 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 26,730
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


My goal is to some day read the Users Manual for my Rebel
Oct 11 12 09:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Supermodel Photographer
Posts: 3,309
Oyster Bay, New York, US


Jules NYC wrote:
shit, I spelled his name wrong blargh
Scorsese !! ha ha

You should do what I do:  check it on Google every time before writing it.

Oct 12 12 04:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,703
New York, New York, US


Garry k wrote:
My goal is to some day read the Users Manual for my Rebel

Babysteps... wink

Oct 14 12 04:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LA StarShooter
Posts: 1,752
Los Angeles, California, US


Pat Berrett wrote:
In addition to running a full time studio and problem solving all day, I teach.

I have been teaching for the past 20 years and find that student questions reveal the gaps in my knowledge about both the technical aspects of photography and the aesthetic side.
A simple question about where ideas come from or why certain compositions work better than others can lead to great insight.



“He who works with his hands is a laborer.
He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman.
He who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist.”
― St. Francis of Assisi

That is a misattributted quote, and due to my knowledge of Catholic saints, their depiction in art, and late medieval art and, the quattrocento period, which saw the rise of the artist, that was easy to spot.

So, when you teach your next class or whenever you quote this, just remember this:

"He who works with his hands is a laborer. He who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman. He who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist.

    "This quote was actually composed by Louis Nizer, and published in his book, Between You and Me (1948)"

Louis Nizer wasn't a saint; he was a lawyer.

Oct 14 12 04:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Miller Photoworks
Posts: 2,350
Phoenix, Arizona, US


I got my AA in photo in 2001 and BFA in 2006.  Stuff I felt like learning more about, like framing and gear, I got jobs in a frame shop and gear rental house.  I listen to podcssts and currently swatch the Kelby training workshops, go to photo conferences, attend museum stuff when I can.  I also teach which in turn teaches me.  Oh, stuff like PDN and Aperture are helpful.
Oct 15 12 01:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don Garrett
Posts: 4,210
Escondido, California, US


I just practice my art and experiment with the image making that interests me. I was an art major in college, (many years ago), but discovered that there was a LOT more to learn than the teachers were able, (or willing) to teach us. (I believe I saw jealousy of their students in them). I also discovered that I could learn more about composition from a small book, ("Composition in Art"), than was available in beginning and advanced composition in school.
  When my brother went to Kauai to live after high school, he left me a Minolta srt101, and some verbal instructions how to use it. At first, I used it only to make paintings from, but many years later, I discovered that photography could be as free, creative, and unlimited as acrylic on canvas, especially with Photoshop as a tool, when it was created.
  I developed my own vision, and had to learn the tools to achieve that vision. At age 61, I consider myself to still be a student.
-Don
Oct 15 12 02:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digital Photo PLUS
Posts: 5,503
Lorton, Virginia, US


udor wrote:
What do YOU do to further your skill and knowledge as an artist?

Please share! smile

Nothing.

You are welcome.

Oct 15 12 04:49 am  Link  Quote 
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