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Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,592
Torrance, California, US


GOD FUCKING DAMN IT!!!  I seriously despise people like this.  (And before I start, let me say I know rants about flakes are pointless; but who cares?.. I need to vent.)

So after putting up a casting and exchanging almost 20 emails going over details...

And after me agreeing I'll drive down to Mission Viejo from Torrance (about 55 miles)...

And being willing to shoot TF with someone who has a weak portfolio to begin with...

Guess who's NOT at home (if the address she gave even was the right one), not answering texts, not answering phone calls, and not opening PM's here?  That's right, Super Flake.

WTF over?  Why do some of these "models" go to such lengths to disappoint?  Fucking pathetic. 

Will this rant stop it?  No, not at all.

Does bitching about it make me feel better?  No, I'm just releasing tension so I don't do something rash to the next person who cuts me off on the freeway or in line at the supermarket.  lol

Okay, I feel better.  Please chime in and make me laugh.  Makes letting it roll off your back that much easier.
Oct 06 12 11:58 am  Link  Quote 
Model
KelliOnLineGlamourNude
Posts: 2,910
Barrie, Ontario, Canada


More then one photographer has done similar to me to that degree, with even greater travel. People suck. sad
Oct 06 12 12:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,592
Torrance, California, US


So now I'm in O.C. and free for the rest of the day.  Anyone want to take her spot?  I'll shoot anything you want.

Hit me up.  smile
Oct 06 12 12:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Did she answer your pre-shoot verification call before you hit the road?
Oct 06 12 12:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,592
Torrance, California, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
Did she answer your pre-shoot verification call before you hit the road?

You know, my instincts were telling me something was off.  She gave me her number and asked me to text her yesterday, but didn't respond to the text I sent.  I should have called, but I figured all the email communication was good so why doubt her.

Well, c'est la vie.  My daughter lives close to where we were supposed to shoot, so I figured I see her afterward.  I guess in the back of my mind I figured it wouldn't matter all that much if she flaked, because I'd still have a reason to be in the area.  Pretty much my back up plan.

Oct 06 12 12:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:

You know, my instincts were telling me something was off.  She gave me her number and asked me to text her yesterday, but didn't respond to the text I sent.  I should have called, but I figured all the email communication was good so why doubt her.

Well, c'est la vie.  My daughter lives close to where we were supposed to shoot, so I figured I see her afterward.  I guess in the back of my mind I figured it wouldn't matter all that much if she flaked, because I'd still have a reason to be in the area.  Pretty much my back up plan.

So it is your fault

Oct 06 12 01:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K Allende
Posts: 14,172
Columbus, Ohio, US


People suck.

Here's a cake
http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a293_c1.jpg
Oct 06 12 01:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Damon Banner
Posts: 85,305
Hayward, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
So it is your fault

No, it's still her fault.  She agreed to a shoot date and time.  She should stick to that.  A person shouldn't need to reconfirm every 35 minutes up until 3 hours after the shoot for a shoot to go off w/o issues.

Oct 06 12 01:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5,454
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


You drove all that way before you got a same day text or call? That is not to smart.

Pretty amazing that someone would miss out on the chance to shoot with you but what can you do. Get some ice cream.
Oct 06 12 01:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A M Johnson
Posts: 8,024
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:

So it is your fault

No, it is HER fault.

The OP should have stuck by the time tested ritual of call the day before, call the day of. That would have saved him from wasting his time.

However, it is her fault for flaking. She fucked him over. It is on her.

Oct 06 12 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,592
Torrance, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
So it is your fault

Yes, of course!....how did I not see this before?!  Thank you.  No really, THANK YOU SO MUCH!  Your pearls of wisdom are like manna from heaven. 

Tell me, do you hold seminars?  I would LOVE to attend.

Oct 06 12 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A M Johnson
Posts: 8,024
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:

Yes, of course!....how did I not see this before?!  Thank you.  No really, THANK YOU SO MUCH!  Your pearls of wisdom are like manna from heaven. 

Tell me, do you hold seminars?  I would LOVE to attend.

I love these white knights too. It is never the models fault. Bullshit.

Oct 06 12 01:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 5,436
San Diego, California, US


Lame as fuck. I don't get people like that.
Oct 06 12 01:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paolo Diavolo
Posts: 8,530
Martinez, California, US


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/13.gif
Oct 06 12 01:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alivia Autumn
Posts: 610
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


That sucks sad no wonder photographers are so cautious
Oct 06 12 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Model Gia Lee
Posts: 46
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Alivia Autumn wrote:
That sucks sad no wonder photographers are so cautious

Oct 06 12 02:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Model Gia Lee
Posts: 46
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I did a shoot with a male model. The fucking photographer skipped town. Never delivered 1 pic!! To top it off it was an Implied Couples shoot. God knows what the asshole is doing w/ our pics. Works both ways. Guess we all suck
Oct 06 12 02:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,592
Torrance, California, US


Just received a text from her.  Mind you, shoot time was 10:30am and she sends me this at 2:00pm...

"So sorry!  I just woke up!"

Pure class.  lol
Oct 06 12 02:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tom Linkens
Posts: 6,418
Lititz, Pennsylvania, US


I got a very suspect e-mail at the last minute yesterday/last night. Fuck that, I continued my plan of buying bigger, better, and more things for myself..instead of heading to NY today and paying this model. The "bigger better more" New Years Resolution for photoshoots has & is being kept, so I'm also focusing on other things.
Oct 06 12 02:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 4,812
Antioch, California, US


Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Makes letting it roll off your back that much easier.

smile Too late for that I 'd say...... after the rant, I dont think you can say it rolled off your back smile

But, I feel your pain. (In my very best Bill Clinton voice)

Now, go to Starbucks, have a cup, and go shoot some landscapes or something.

Oct 06 12 02:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,327
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Photographers never flake. Ever.
Oct 06 12 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Del Geno Durham
Posts: 150
Beaumont, Texas, US


Have had my share of this kind of stuff. Thankfully, not that many. But still enough to make me want to choke somebody.

I've never booked through an agency before. Would that necessarily be more reliable?
Oct 06 12 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,376
Portland, Oregon, US


Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.   
I need to vent.
Blah, blah, blah

Sorry, Eros -- nobody needs to vent. 

I'm notorious for being unsympathetic about flake rants, mostly because the rants are typically from people who don't bother being selective about whom they work with.  For example, I missed the part where you checked the potential model out.  Did you check references?  Did you check that she lived at her address? 

In my opinion, one great advantage of a TF* session is the opportunity for the participants to get to know each other.  As such, I would never expend a huge amount of energy on a model with no track record with me.  Maybe I'm spoiled by lots of great models in my area, but I would never drive an hour to a TF* session with a model who doesn't have a strong portfolio and who doesn't have references.

So, if flakes bother you, learn how to be more selective.  If you don't want to be selective (if you don't want to check a model out before agreeing to work with her), then in my book, you have no right to rant.

Sorry for your troubles.

Oct 06 12 03:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A M Johnson
Posts: 8,024
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Del Geno Durham wrote:
Have had my share of this kind of stuff. Thankfully, not that many. But still enough to make me want to choke somebody.

I've never booked through an agency before. Would that necessarily be more reliable?

It would be much more reliable.

My formula for reducing flakes to almost zero:

Nail down shoot in messages. Talk on the phone to discuss specifics. Send an email with all the details you discussed either by message or phone. If it is more than a week out, send a courtesy reminder a week out. Make sure they know you are going to talk the day before. Talk the morning of. She should confirm she is on the way/getting ready etc..

Any breakdown in any part of this then the shoot is off.

Oct 06 12 03:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7,641
Monterey, California, US


Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Just received a text from her.  Mind you, shoot time was 10:30am and she sends me this at 2:00pm...

"So sorry!  I just woke up!"

Pure class.  lol

Sucks! But at least you got a text.

Recently, I was flaked on. Called and texted when I got to her location but no answer. Went to do an errand and called back a half hour later...nothing!

Some days later I came across her Twitter acct. which stated that she was going to take a nap before her photoshoot later that morning. This was posted around 7:30 am while the shoot was scheduled at 10:30 am.

That sure was one 'power nap!' (lol)

And no, I haven't heard back and don't expect to.

Oct 06 12 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,165
Vineland, New Jersey, US


I've never driven 60 miles for a flake.  I have driven 25-30, though.  Most of the time, I have a pretty good idea it's going to be a flake.  I only go because if there is only a 10% chance the model will show, I don't want to be the reason why the shoot doesn't happen.

  In 100% of the cases when I have an indication it will be a flake, it is.  In a few other cases where I'm unsure, some are and some aren't.  I've learned to identify when flakes will happen.  If they somehow show up, it's great.  If they don't show up, I can at least have a backup plan or do something else (like, for instance, if I'm in Philadelphia, I can take myself on a tour of the city).

  In one case, I scheduled 2 shoots within a few hours of each other.  I had a good idea the 2nd shoot wasn't going to happen.  It didn't.  No call, no text, no later communication from the model.  It's okay.  I had a great time on the first one despite the rain.

  I do feel your pain, though.
Oct 06 12 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Del Geno Durham
Posts: 150
Beaumont, Texas, US


PhotographybyT wrote:
Sucks! But at least you got a text.

Recently, I was flaked on. Called and texted when I got to her location but no answer. Went to do an errand and called back a half hour later...nothing!

Some days later I came across her Twitter acct. which stated that she was going to take a nap before her photoshoot later that morning. This was posted around 7:30 am while the shoot was scheduled at 10:30 am.

That sure was one 'power nap!' (lol)

And no, I haven't heard back and don't expect to.

Man, it's just amazing! I can put up with someone not showing up, but at least acknowledge it.

"Hey, sorry. I overslept..."
"I forgot..."
"Something came up..."
"My car broke down..."

Something! Anything! Lie to me!

Oct 06 12 03:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Miss AY
Posts: 8,166
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I'll never understand why people put so much effort into a shoot with someone who is new and doesn't have anything to offer.

I've traveled long distances and sunk plenty of money into trade shoots... but that was only for people who had work I loved, who had a proven track record, etc. And I wasn't disappointed!

Why the heck would you agree to go all the way over to wherever for someone who, from the sounds of it, doesn't even have work you respect?

I mean seriously, is it just me or does that seem to be a huge common theme in these threads - the photographer is going out of their way and putting lots of resources into a shoot with someone who they say is mediocre. And why again are they surprised that they are let down in some way...?

wtf????
Oct 06 12 04:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Art of Churchwell
Posts: 3,171
QUEENS VILLAGE, New York, US


Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:

Yes, of course!....how did I not see this before?!  Thank you.  No really, THANK YOU SO MUCH!  Your pearls of wisdom are like manna from heaven. 

Tell me, do you hold seminars?  I would LOVE to attend.

I think I get the picture now.

Oct 06 12 04:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


I once woke up at three am to make into downtown manhattan for a five am shoot. Photographer never showed up.

I don't think your story wins. Flakes happen to a lot of people. Accept it, and move on.
Oct 06 12 04:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


The Art of Churchwell wrote:
So it is your fault

Damon Banner wrote:
No, it's still her fault.  She agreed to a shoot date and time.  She should stick to that.  A person shouldn't need to reconfirm every 35 minutes up until 3 hours after the shoot for a shoot to go off w/o issues.

Yep. Her fault. But that doesn't mean the OP couldn't have done something to prevent the model from wasting more of his time.

Call the model -- voice call, not text -- and if the model doesn't answer in the affirmative (getting her voicemail doesn't count), don't leave the house. And consider it a no-call/no-show flakeout.

Oct 06 12 05:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R L P
Posts: 1,969
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz113/rlpbucket/lucy.jpg

You = Charlie Brown
MM models = Lucy

smile
Oct 06 12 06:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wildcat Photography
Posts: 1,486
Valparaiso, Indiana, US


R L P wrote:
http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz113/rlpbucket/lucy.jpg

You = Charlie Brown
MM models = Lucy

smile

+1

PERFECT!

Oct 06 12 06:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jim Ball
Posts: 17,188
Frontenac, Kansas, US


P I X I E wrote:
Photographers never flake. Ever.

Photographers flake, models flake, but I suspect that the scales are far from equally balanced.  I've personally had around a dozen different models flake on me at different times.  I've never flaked on a model.

Oct 06 12 06:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,592
Torrance, California, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:

Sorry, Eros -- nobody needs to vent. 

I'm notorious for being unsympathetic about flake rants, mostly because the rants are typically from people who don't bother being selective about whom they work with.  For example, I missed the part where you checked the potential model out.  Did you check references?  Did you check that she lived at her address? 

In my opinion, one great advantage of a TF* session is the opportunity for the participants to get to know each other.  As such, I would never expend a huge amount of energy on a model with no track record with me.  Maybe I'm spoiled by lots of great models in my area, but I would never drive an hour to a TF* session with a model who doesn't have a strong portfolio and who doesn't have references.

So, if flakes bother you, learn how to be more selective.  If you don't want to be selective (if you don't want to check a model out before agreeing to work with her), then in my book, you have no right to rant.

Sorry for your troubles.

Ahhh...more gems for my treasure chest.  Thank you for this advice.  I'm sure a newbie like me can benefit greatly from your teachings about how to work with models.  If you're free sometime, maybe you can also show me what that little button on the top right corner of my camera does, since I obviously haven't worked with enough models to figure things out on my own. 

roll

Oct 06 12 09:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,592
Torrance, California, US


Augustine York wrote:
I'll never understand why people put so much effort into a shoot with someone who is new and doesn't have anything to offer.

I've traveled long distances and sunk plenty of money into trade shoots... but that was only for people who had work I loved, who had a proven track record, etc. And I wasn't disappointed!

Why the heck would you agree to go all the way over to wherever for someone who, from the sounds of it, doesn't even have work you respect?

I mean seriously, is it just me or does that seem to be a huge common theme in these threads - the photographer is going out of their way and putting lots of resources into a shoot with someone who they say is mediocre. And why again are they surprised that they are let down in some way...?

wtf????

Just to clarify things a bit...

1.  We communicated by email the night before; about 11 hours before shoot time.  This wasn't something planned weeks in advance.  It was a last minute casting call I put up announcing I was free this weekend.  Sure, I probably should have double checked first thing in the morning, but when the last email she wrote me said, "So I'll see you in the morning?"...I kinda' interpreted that as meaning she was good to go. 

2.  My daughter lives less than 5 minutes away from where the model does and I planned on seeing her after the shoot, so I would've traveled the exact same distance to see her whether I had a shoot or not.  I planned on seeing her later in the afternoon, after we were done, but since the model flaked I simply picked my daughter up early and we went to a movie. 

3.  The reason I'm willing to shoot with someone who doesn't have a strong portfolio, is because I feel my work can probably add some quality images to their portfolio.  Not saying I'm the best out there, but my work is consistent and is being considered for a gallery exhibit.  I have a full time job with great pay and benefits though, so photography is just a creative outlet. 
    I would imagine models who are serious about modeling would want the best work possible in their portfolio; so if they have a weak portfolio to begin with and have the opportunity to get something good in their book, then why would they pass that up?  That would be like me flaking out on someone like Adriana Lima or some other established supermodel who agreed to shoot TF with me.  I'd kick myself in the nuts if I did something that stupid.
    Also, just because a model has a weak portfolio, doesn't mean she has a terrible look.  I'm selective about who I'l TF with, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of work in their portfolio.  For models, it's a different story.  I'm sure a photographer with a weak portfolio will give you far less incentive to shoot TF with them than one with a strong portfolio. 

4.  I've considered not heading out to shoots if I don't hear from the model beforehand.  The problem with that is, that if the model is ready and for whatever reason can't receive my call (i.e. bad cell reception), then I'm the one who looks like the flake because I didn't hold up my end of the agreement. 

5.  No matter how well you plan and how well you communicate, there's always the potential for the person you're shooting with to back out at the last minute.  After all, it's a TF shoot so what do they have to lose?  On top of that, they can't be outed here on MM, so why would they even care if they do flake?  I'm sure this model had about 10 seconds of regret (if even that), and then simply went on with her day. 

In the end, I'm not losing any sleep over this.  I had a great time with my daughter and go to see a gorgeous sunset tonight, so all is good with the world.  At that particular moment, when I learned the shoot wasn't going to happen, I got pissed.  Anger naturally follows disappointment, so I figured I'd post a little something here instead of screaming "FFFFFFUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK!!!!" at the top of my lungs next to a park with families nearby. 

No doubt by tomorrow this thread will work its way to page 2 or page 3 of this forum, and then eventually it'll disappear into the thousands of other unread threads.  Nobody will care, including me, so thanks to all the Dr. Phil's out there who felt the need to give me their 2 cents, as if somehow they're the masters of human destiny, but in the end I don't think the input is worth 2 cents. 

Shrug.

Onto the next topic.  smile

Oct 06 12 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Angel Portraits
Posts: 226
Lakeland, Florida, US


Came in late- I posted a thread about the one model which I refer to tramp cancelled on me and my MUA while waiting for her. These models are time wasters and should be sent to a boot camp. They just keep getting away with murder. I already put her name and picture out there to all photographers in the region. They need to be careful as we put a lot of planning, days aside, and resources to do a shoot.
Oct 06 12 09:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
4.  I've considered not heading out to shoots if I don't hear from the model beforehand.  The problem with that is, that if the model is ready and for whatever reason can't receive my call (i.e. bad cell reception), then I'm the one who looks like the flake because I didn't hold up my end of the agreement.

I inform the model of my policy about getting a green light before I bother leaving the house. The model is told that if she doesn't hear from me, she's to contact me by hook or crook. Voice call is best, but a quick email is fine; in a pinch, even a text is appreciated. If her cell phone's dead, use someone else's or a land-line. If she's out of reception, get in reception; in my area, it's damned hard to find a spot that doesn't have coverage.

For some reason, that policy has worked out quite well. The few times I couldn't get in touch with models for the green light, they usually got in touch with me. The few who didn't, didn't get the shoot. And if I eventually got in contact with them, it turned out they'd forgotten about the shoot and would've flaked anyway.

I've got an absolute requirement of green-light-before-leaving-the-house and it's never backfired into making me look like I flaked on a model.

Oct 06 12 11:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,520
Columbus, Ohio, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:

Sorry, Eros -- nobody needs to vent.

Translation
You don't feel the need to vent, so you transfer that to others, figuring if it works for you, it's gotta be gospel for the masses.

No....

Oct 06 12 11:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,741
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


A M Johnson wrote:

It would be much more reliable.

My formula for reducing flakes to almost zero:

Nail down shoot in messages. Talk on the phone to discuss specifics. Send an email with all the details you discussed either by message or phone. If it is more than a week out, send a courtesy reminder a week out. Make sure they know you are going to talk the day before. Talk the morning of. She should confirm she is on the way/getting ready etc..

Any breakdown in any part of this then the shoot is off.

Absolutely. I use a very similar set of protocols and I almost never have any flakes. I also believe that when you have a flake problem, the photographer is almost as much at fault for the problem as the model.

There's no doubt in my mind that it's on the model for being a flake. I agree it's her fault, but at the same time, the OP did very little to mitigate his risk in having her flake. That, and we also don't know the other side of the story either.

But like I said, it's all about mitigating risk. When I park my car at night, I don't leave valuables in plain sight, I don't leave it unlocked, I don't park it in a dark area, and I don't leave the keys inside. Of course if someone steals it or steals something from inside, it's no less a crime just because it's unlocked, but it's also not mitigating my risk from theft either.

Working with models, especially new, non-agency models with no heavy professional experience means that my risk level is higher so you need to mitigate that risk by taking measures that won't cause you to drive 55 miles out of your way to a shoot that never happens.

Oct 07 12 12:04 am  Link  Quote 
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