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Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,444
Paris, Île-de-France, France


The opposite.

Assuming TF, to take rates out of the question.

I'm curious as I may be missing out.

I don't ask models to shoot outside of big agency tests.
I've had really great models come through from MM, and FB.

Does it  take courage for you to ask photographers to shoot?
What would it take you to do so, if at this point you are shy of doing that.

Or if you never ask, and always wait for photographers to ask first, what are your reasons for doing so.

There were multiple posts recently where new models are hounded by photographers in particular where they are being pestered with offers to do styles ( nudes or other) they are not listing nor comfortable with.


Taking this into consideration state your experience level, as it must have a cause and effect.
Oct 07 12 07:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,865
Albany, New York, US


I've found from experience, you can't expect people to be mindreaders.

If one person is interested in working w/ the other, just ask. Otherwise they may not have a clue that the other party is even remotely interested.
Oct 07 12 07:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
B E A R
Posts: 474
Riverside, California, US


Doesn't really take "courage". I've asked to work with photographers that have work way above my own, but I'm not nervous to ask them or anything. If they don't respond, or say no, just move on, it's alright smile You never know if you never ask smile
Oct 07 12 08:07 am  Link  Quote 
Model
QuietAsKept
Posts: 5,935
Baltimore, Maryland, US


For me, I've had a mixed bag of results when it comes to asking photographers to shoot with them on a TF basis.

I messaged this photographer a few weeks ago. He gave me this extremely LONG explanation about why he wouldn't shoot me. I'm thinking, dude you could have said no or gave me the no response and kept it moving. hmm geesh
Oct 07 12 08:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miss AY
Posts: 8,164
Portland, Maine, US


If I see someone I like, and I think it's feasible to shoot with them (meaning I can actually get to them, not someone across the country), I'll send a message and ask.
Oct 07 12 08:48 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Axioma
Posts: 6,762
Gent, East Flanders, Belgium


I must say that I am so shy when it comes to this, I really dislike the feeling of 'bothering' someone who's on a (much) higher level than I am. It improved a bit with the years, but it still takes a lot of courage to ask, and generally I still need a little nudge to contact. That can be for instance a tag or pic comment they left for me, or the fact that they have a casting call up I could fit, etc. smile
Oct 07 12 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JBerman Photography
Posts: 1,096
New York, New York, US


QuietAsKept wrote:
For me, I've had a mixed bag of results when it comes to asking photographers to shoot with them on a TF basis.

I messaged this photographer a few weeks ago. He gave me this extremely LONG explanation about why he wouldn't shoot me. I'm thinking, dude you could have said no or gave me the no response and kept it moving. hmm geesh

So rather than an explanation, you prefer that he ignored you instead??

Oct 07 12 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Joseph William
Posts: 1,969
Chicago, Illinois, US


I know you are asking models, but just so folks know I rarely get models approaching me to shoot.  I think that is typical for most mid-level MM shooters like myself.  So models I think most photographers appreciate being approached, even if some write back long explanations of why not.
Oct 07 12 08:58 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Julia Francesca
Posts: 2,357
Maumee, Ohio, US


i'm somewhat experienced and i don't have a problem with asking photographers if they wanted to shoot, as long as they're close by and state that they're open to tf somewhere in their profile, since i don't pay for shoots. i do like when photographers contact me first though, then i already know they like my style and don't have to worry about if i'm what they're looking for or not.
Oct 07 12 09:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Evie Wolfe
Posts: 1,201
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


_Mini wrote:
I must say that I am so shy when it comes to this, I really dislike the feeling of 'bothering' someone who's on a (much) higher level than I am. It improved a bit with the years, but it still takes a lot of courage to ask, and generally I still need a little nudge to contact. That can be for instance a tag or pic comment they left for me, or the fact that they have a casting call up I could fit, etc. smile

+ 1

Although I can't see many people turning you down, _Mini!

I do still send out messages sometimes (less now than I used to) but I can't help but feel I'm being a bother! I know it is silly though, so I might be mad but I'm sane enough to know it tongue

Oct 07 12 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,444
Paris, Île-de-France, France


So far I like the responses.   It seems that if the localization is within a travel distance that models and photographers are more likely to connect.

Yet as I expected models may have some reticence in making le premier pas.

So to further this, models: if traveling does that weigh in to your asking or not?


Most of the requests are traveling models not necessarily local, for me. Luckily I live in the world's most visited city, so I get a lot of requests.
Oct 07 12 09:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,444
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Evie_Wolfe wrote:
1

Although I can't see many people turning you down, _Mini!

I do still send out messages sometimes (less now than I used to) but I can't help but feel I'm being a bother! I know it is silly though, so I might be mad but I'm sane enough to know it tongue

It was _Mini who got this MM llama thingy rolling for me. She knows I am truly grateful for her request to come and turn my world around. And more than once.

Oct 07 12 09:11 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Evie Wolfe
Posts: 1,201
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Neil Snape wrote:
So to further this, models: if traveling does that weigh in to your asking or not?

Usually, if I like the photographer enough to bug them about a shoot, I'm willing to travel to them if they say yes, without asking for travel costs, obviously. I have a huge crush on a couple of photographers in the US at the moment, and I have promised myself I will get out there to shoot with them smile

Oct 07 12 09:13 am  Link  Quote 
Model
QuietAsKept
Posts: 5,935
Baltimore, Maryland, US


JBerman Photography wrote:
So rather than an explanation, you prefer that he ignored you instead??

It's not like I'll message just one photographer while I'm networking. I would elaborate why but it would be considered "outing".

Oct 07 12 09:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Evie Wolfe
Posts: 1,201
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Neil Snape wrote:
It was _Mini who got this MM model thingy rolling for me. She knows I am truly grateful for her request to come and turn my world around. And more than once.

big_smile I absolutely LOVE stories like this!

I honestly don't know which one of you is luckier smile

Oct 07 12 09:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Tirado Photography
Posts: 4,205
New York, New York, US


I do get emails from models from which I end up shooting them - my avatar is from a dancer/model and his partner who emailed me that he was in town - but I do also email models.

Using the browse feature I do look at model both new and old to the region. If I see something in their look that I really like, I would sent them an email. Some don't respond, some respond and say they only do paid work, but a good number are interested to shoot.   

In cases where you need a full team it is harder to get a team without the somehow magical term of "agency" attached to the model. One plus is that you usually don't have to worry about taking much of any of the "clean" shots that agencies always want.
Oct 07 12 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
Model
QuietAsKept
Posts: 5,935
Baltimore, Maryland, US


Neil Snape wrote:
So far I like the responses.   It seems that if the localization is within a travel distance that models and photographers are more likely to connect.

Yet as I expected models may have some reticence in making le premier pas.

So to further this, models: if traveling does that weigh in to your asking or not?


Most of the requests are traveling models not necessarily local, for me. Luckily I live in the world's most visited city, so I get a lot of requests.

It all depends. I'll get a "yes" from some and then the rest will respond me to as if I can not read nor did they read my profile about me being interested in traveling. Again, a mixed bag.

Oct 07 12 09:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Studio
Posts: 183
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


Paul Tirado Photography wrote:
I do get emails from models from which I end up shooting them - my avatar is from a dancer/model and his partner who emailed me that he was in town - but I do also email models.

Using the browse feature I do look at model both new and old to the region. If I see something in their look that I really like, I would sent them an email. Some don't respond, some respond and say they only do paid work, but a good number are interested to shoot.   

In cases where you need a full team it is harder to get a team with the somehow magical term of "agency" attached to the model. One plus is that you usually don't have to worry about taking much of any of the "clean" shots that agencies always want.

I am assuming you meant that it is EASIER to get a full team with an agency model. Right?

Oct 07 12 09:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Tirado Photography
Posts: 4,205
New York, New York, US


Dan K Studio wrote:
I am assuming you meant that it is EASIER to get a full team with an agency model. Right?

Correct. Edited. Thanks.

Oct 07 12 09:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Axioma
Posts: 6,762
Gent, East Flanders, Belgium


Neil Snape wrote:
[...]

So to further this, models: if traveling does that weigh in to your asking or not?
[...]

I do put on my brave shoes more when travelling smile.

Evie_Wolfe wrote:
big_smile I absolutely LOVE stories like this!
I honestly don't know which one of you is luckier smile

That would be me!

Oct 07 12 09:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Neil Snape wrote:
The opposite.

Assuming TF, to take rates out of the question.

I'm curious as I may be missing out.

I don't ask models to shoot outside of big agency tests.
I've had really great models come through from MM, and FB.

Does it  take courage for you to ask photographers to shoot?
What would it take you to do so, if at this point you are shy of doing that.

Or if you never ask, and always wait for photographers to ask first, what are your reasons for doing so.

There were multiple posts recently where new models are hounded by photographers in particular where they are being pestered with offers to do styles ( nudes or other) they are not listing nor comfortable with.


Taking this into consideration state your experience level, as it must have a cause and effect.

I suspect that 90% of the trade shoots on MM, the photographer made the request.  People like you, and Stefano, for example, live in a different reality from most of us.

I ask the model to shoot at least that often, although I get plenty of requests.  But a lot of the requests I get are for shoots that don't interest me.

Oct 07 12 09:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,444
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Yet sometimes perhaps the pictures presented put the expectations out of reach. If that is true then it may have models thinking it's not worth asking as they might be up to their idea of what to expect.

In the end I am very humble, quite shy, and accessible.
Oct 07 12 09:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Colorblinded
Posts: 647
Rochester, New York, US


Art of the nude wrote:
But a lot of the requests I get are for shoots that don't interest me.

This, or when a model can't present any concepts of their own and don't want to do anything I might have listed at any given time are about the only times I've turned people down who contact me.  If I can't wedge you in to something I want to do, what interesting ideas do you have?  I like ideas and experiments!

It's always best to just ask rather than wonder, wondering won't get you anywhere.

Oct 07 12 10:05 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Cole Morrison
Posts: 3,958
Portland, Oregon, US


I fly by both ways. If someone is interested and write me, then cool. If I am interested and write them, then cool.
Oct 07 12 10:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,845
Seattle, Washington, US


If I'm interested in doing TF with a photographer, I usually send them a pm or leave a tag that compliments them on their port and expresses an interest in working with them.  I word my message in such a way that they don't feel compelled to get back to me or say "no" if they're not interested.  Something like this: "Amazing body of work, [insert specific compliment that applies to their port here].  If you're ever interested in collaborating, let me know.  It would be an honor to work with you."

When I was new, I was too shy to ask anyone, but now it's just not a big deal.  If someone doesn't respond, or responds with a "no" I don't take it personally.  I figure  there are thousands of other amazing photographers to choose from, no need to agonize about working with just one.  It's amazing how many people actually say "yes", and all I have to do is send a two line message. It's not nearly as painful as I used to think it was back when I was too afraid to ask anyone.
Oct 07 12 10:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan OMell
Posts: 1,335
Charlotte, North Carolina, US


I could contact a model, but I rarely repeat the experience. Many have too hectic life or too ambitious or just forget. There are really much much more talented and impressive photographers than I ever could become. But some models leaving in 5 minutes of driving distance from a location to do a TFCD shoot with me, would rather drive hours out-of-state to shoot with just some more pompous photographer, who spends most of the time marketing than improving his skills, to pay for shoot.

It's much easier to approach the total strangers in the streets -- the instant interactive contact is more helpful than the days or even months of fruitless correspondence about possible locations, outfits, MUAs or what not.

I don't drive and use mostly a big scooter or public transportation. I have a studio only in Europe, but I'm permanently located in USA. To me, traveling to Europe where nobody is overly surprised that you're interested in them as a photographer, is relaxing and wonderful experience. 7" kindle fire is handy to quickly show your ideas/expectations. Usually people are so creative, funny and friendly. And skinnier to be honest smile. My overly impression is that majority of Americans are more often expect some kind of sponsors and/or rather making money on each and every shoot, than getting interesting images. Plus, in Europe, even if you don't smile a lot, nobody thinks that you don't like them or something like that. In USA you have a lot of opportunities for your images, but you're supposed to spend too much time to market yourself. I would rather spend more hours in post-processing or reading interesting books on photography.
Oct 07 12 10:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


I have not been approached by models in mainstream photography, only in fetish. Go figure. When I approach models on MM, it is usually a "I sure want to shoot with you", which transpires...or not, whether $$$ involved, or not.

So I'd venture models, at reasonably even level of portfolio quality, are more "shy" than photographers.
Oct 07 12 11:36 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Evie Wolfe
Posts: 1,201
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Please feel free to skip this, it will be long, I will ramble smile

I guess there are a few things that would put me off messaging a photographer, I don't think any of them have been concious decisions, but there are some definate trends.

I probably won't message a photographer if his work is too good. I'm aware my market is small and I have no wish to bother someone way out of my reach - I have done a couple of times in the past, but only if I've become absolutely enchanted by something they have created. To their credit, those I have messaged have been the very soul of courtesy, and I even got to shoot with two of them smile

I probably won't message a photographer if there is nothing in his port in the 'alternative' (whatever that means) style. Although I have shot mainstream stuff, I don't have the height or stats for plus fashion so I'd be of no use to a photographer who shot those styles. If I wanted to do them, I would probably pay.

I won't message anyone with one of those big 'No TF' signs on their profile, although I've been contacted by many who post them for trade in the past. I always try and respect what folks have written in their 'about me' smile

I probably won't message anyone who comes across as confrontational or agressive in their profile - to me, that says 'stay away, I do not want to be bugged for trade'.

I used to never contact people who showed no plus size models in their port, but I have since changed my mind on that (by 'plus size' I mean in reference to internet world 'plus size', I'm aware my stats are not that of a fashion plus size model tongue) since I have been advised by so many photographers that just because they haven't shot it yet, doesn't mean they don't want to! It makes sense I guess, but I still avoid photographers with 'no plus size models' notes on their profiles. Everyone is entitled to their own preferences!
Oct 07 12 11:38 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Alabaster Crowley
Posts: 7,127
Tucson, Arizona, US


If there's someone I want to work with, I ask. I've worked TF* with several people whose profiles say "NO TF*". The worst they can do is say no.
Oct 07 12 11:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
- BP Photo -
Posts: 206
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


Oct 07 12 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,444
Paris, Île-de-France, France


I do say in my profile that I'm not really interested in TF but don't rule it out either. That way I don't lead models on, and as stated, only the very persistent will succeed.

As some other posters said , with a good idea or inspiration it'll quickly become a shoot. Yet to shoot a beginner for their expected looks for a portfolio doesn't make sense.

Only some models have answered if they receive more requests than they send.

I don't send any, but Paris few models use MM, almost everything is FB.
Oct 07 12 12:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


I read the profile of the person, and message those who seem open to being asked.


If their text makes it clear they'd prefer not be be bothered, then I leave them be.
Oct 07 12 12:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 922
Detroit, Michigan, US


There are times when I will send a message to a photographer or artist asking if they are interested in working with me. If I know I will be traveling to a certain city, I might look through some of the listings in that area and see if anyone has a style I like.

I also make a point of checking new members every couple of weeks as well to see if there is anyone locally, paying close attention to photography and art students. At the same time I look at casting calls to see if anyone has a project that I like.

I get quite a few messages coming from artists and photographers who would like me to model for them but usually they are so far away it is not possible.
Oct 07 12 12:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,790
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


If I like the photographers work and I haven't talked to them before, I'll send them a message and see if they are interested in shooting.

If I think they are 'out of my leauge' then I wait until I feel my work is good enough to ask them. I used to do this all the time when I was newer. Now, not so much. I'm very confident with the work I have, and if I ask someone to shoot they are likely to say yes.
Oct 07 12 01:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,561
Torrance, California, US


Neil Snape wrote:
The opposite.

Assuming TF, to take rates out of the question.

I'm curious as I may be missing out.

I don't ask models to shoot outside of big agency tests.
I've had really great models come through from MM, and FB.

Does it  take courage for you to ask photographers to shoot?
What would it take you to do so, if at this point you are shy of doing that.

Or if you never ask, and always wait for photographers to ask first, what are your reasons for doing so.

There were multiple posts recently where new models are hounded by photographers in particular where they are being pestered with offers to do styles ( nudes or other) they are not listing nor comfortable with.


Taking this into consideration state your experience level, as it must have a cause and effect.

If I was a model, then I would hope I would have the kind of look someone of your caliber would be looking for.  I don't think I'd come right out and ask you to shoot though, but I would let you know I'm available either through a comment or tag.  Also, I'd keep an eye out if you posted a casting looking for a model for a TF shoot. 

If you were casting for a model though, then I'd definitely toss my hat in the ring and hope for the best.  What's the worst that could happen?  If I didn't fit what you were looking for, then at worst you might ignore my email.  At best, you'd take a moment out to send a tactful rejection letter.  Either way, no harm no foul.

Oct 07 12 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 2,561
Torrance, California, US


NicoleNudes wrote:
I used to do this all the time when I was newer. Now, not so much. I'm very confident with the work I have, and if I ask someone to shoot they are likely to say yes.

With very good reason.  wink

Oct 07 12 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
CRIMSON REIGN
Posts: 806
Baltimore, Maryland, US


Cole Morrison wrote:
I fly by both ways. If someone is interested and write me, then cool. If I am interested and write them, then cool.

+1

Oct 07 12 01:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelleth
Posts: 2,506
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Most of the creatives I shoot are set up through my agency. But those that aren't, I'm usually approached about. Once in a while I'll contact a photographer about it.
Oct 07 12 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Kim L Makeup
Posts: 33
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


While I'm no longer modeling, I have in the past and it's true that I contacted photographers to shoot TF* far less often than they contacted me.

The main reason is that each time I have, I was expected to arrange the entire team, schedule the date and time, find a location (even once when I was offering to drive almost two hours to a photographer's city), come up with every theme, handle all the styling, etc. There were always plenty of great photographers approaching me with ideas that it was never necessary for me to take all that responsibility in a trade shoot. I only contacted exceptionally good photographers for trade in rare occasions where I had all these details already thought out before sending them a message.

Not to mention the photographers I contacted didn't always want to work with me as much as I wanted to work with them, so while they usually agreed to shoot it sometimes took several months to get any pictures back (if I ended up getting any at all).

I'm sure it's not the same for everyone, but that's been my experience. smile
Oct 07 12 02:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Ivanafox
Posts: 979
Healesville, Victoria, Australia


Even when photographers approach me they dick me about endlessly and then do the vanishing act at the last moment so I admit I have got somewhat jaded and don't chase shoots at all anymore. I give my availabilty in the first or second contact so if they take another 10 messages and still haven't set a date then I put them on a low priority. It's just a hobby for me, I have enough headaches on the home front.
Sometimes there has been a concept i've really badly wanted to do and on those occasions I've saved up a decent amount of cash, approached photographers who have updated recently and list themselves as "professional" and have people similar to myself somewhere in a folio (ie not all glamour babes, or supermodel types) for a shoot and offered to pay. Every time they dicked me around worse than what the TF photographer do, so that is something I won't attempt again.
I now only approach photographers I have worked with previously, or post a casting call. I'm not everyones cup of tea and I hate the no answer is answer leave you dangling method.
Oct 07 12 02:31 pm  Link  Quote 
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