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Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Hey!! Im fairly decent at doing makeup, ive only EVER done my own makeup... Never had it done for me! All of my shoots i have done the makeup as well!! Im very artistic and creative and i have the right aspects and dedication necessary.

I want to become a freelance makeup artist as well as some hair styling. (Ive dyed and cut my own hair as well as family and friends prior, and they are ALWAYS satisfied!!)   but with a more professional appeal!! Would you mentor me on your knowledge?! Techniques? Professionalism!! TO DOS, and NOT TO DOS?    Maybe even certain aspects specific to what i am interested in?   I can confirm all of what im looking to learn, as well i can be the model to demonstrate, and in return use the mentor MUA as my practice to replicate?

What would i charge? Or what would YOU be willing to do, for whats reasonable? Schooling is not an option atm, as ive done my research and its not what im into, for what im looking to do!!

You may not actually work with me, but advice in the least is awesome!! smile
Oct 10 12 10:09 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Makeup Hair by Dani B
Posts: 717
Seattle, Washington, US


Any makeup artist who isn't booked will take a job that pays cash, including a makeup lesson. We don't make millions of dollars, just so ya know.wink
Oct 10 12 11:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Makeup by Dani B wrote:
Any makeup artist who isn't booked will take a job that pays cash, including a makeup lesson. We don't make millions of dollars, just so ya know.wink

Haha i know you dont, but its certainly something im interested in learning!!   What would the estimate be? Id offer like 10-20 bucks an hour, for maybe 4 hours, 3 times a week? Using my kit and my materials as well!

Oct 10 12 11:28 am  Link  Quote 
Hair Stylist
rick lesser
Posts: 685
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


This is wrong on so many levels.  So you think you can just take some lessons from one of us and start working?  OK, so lets say you have talent.  Doing family members hair and they liking it doesn't make you a hairdresser.  However it could be a start.  You may have some talent.  What if you found an artist you could assist?  Get a job in a salon.  Offer your time to them.  I worked in one salon that had a girl that did nothing but clean and make sure the clients were comfortable.  They had coffee, something to read. We called it grunt work.  But she learned the business and became a valued employee.  And she turned into a great hairdresser.  It's one way you wouldn't have to pay.  It takes years to make it in this business.  And there are tones of would be artists just waiting in the wings.  I don't want to be ruff on you but your asking us to help you cut corners in a business that took a lot of us years and tons of hard work to just keep our heads above water.  This should be an interesting thread.  R-
Oct 10 12 06:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2,174
Rochester, New York, US


rick lesser wrote:
This is wrong on so many levels.  So you think you can just take some lessons from one of us and start working?  OK, so lets say you have talent.  Doing family members hair and they liking it doesn't make you a hairdresser.  However it could be a start.  You may have some talent.  What if you found an artist you could assist?  Get a job in a salon.  Offer your time to them.  I worked in one salon that had a girl that did nothing but clean and make sure the clients were comfortable.  They had coffee, something to read. We called it grunt work.  But she learned the business and became a valued employee.  And she turned into a great hairdresser.  It's one way you wouldn't have to pay.  It takes years to make it in this business.  And there are tones of would be artists just waiting in the wings.  I don't want to be ruff on you but your asking us to help you cut corners in a business that took a lot of us years and tons of hard work to just keep our heads above water.  This should be an interesting thread.  R-

i really don't see the problem with this, particularly for the makeup artist part. as long as she is professional and follows proper cleanliness procedures, why is it wrong for her to pay someone to show her the ropes rather than get a job?  maybe she wants to be able to arrange when she learns rather than be put on a schedule.  some MUA's probably learn solely from experimenting and/or youtube videos.  she's even willing to PAY to learn this!

Oct 10 12 06:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Aleksandra Ambrozy MUA
Posts: 1
New York, New York, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:

Haha i know you dont, but its certainly something im interested in learning!!   What would the estimate be? Id offer like 10-20 bucks an hour, for maybe 4 hours, 3 times a week? Using my kit and my materials as well!

Makeup artists would probably charge much more then that I for example charge $150 for 2 hours.

Oct 10 12 06:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


rick lesser wrote:
This is wrong on so many levels.  So you think you can just take some lessons from one of us and start working?  OK, so lets say you have talent.  Doing family members hair and they liking it doesn't make you a hairdresser.  However it could be a start.  You may have some talent.  What if you found an artist you could assist?  Get a job in a salon.  Offer your time to them.  I worked in one salon that had a girl that did nothing but clean and make sure the clients were comfortable.  They had coffee, something to read. We called it grunt work.  But she learned the business and became a valued employee.  And she turned into a great hairdresser.  It's one way you wouldn't have to pay.  It takes years to make it in this business.  And there are tones of would be artists just waiting in the wings.  I don't want to be ruff on you but your asking us to help you cut corners in a business that took a lot of us years and tons of hard work to just keep our heads above water.  This should be an interesting thread.  R-

Is apprenticeship wrong?    They do it in trades, hairdressing as you said, the teach like in art schools, makeup artists get paid to teach, why wouldnt you consider the option of being a teacher YOURSELF, and get a bit more consistent work for a period of time, rather then ONE job every blue moon, (not to say thats all it is, but its an extra cherry on the cake). Not only that, i would say a mentorship is what the most successful would do, like photographers that hold workshops, whether you want to call it workshops, or mentorship, or shadowing, or apprenticeship, whats so wrong with that?   

If your concerned about someone stealing your "style"  come on... We all learn the same general techniques as to what works best for the photoshoot, bridal, or dark skinned llamas, wide eyed llamas, bad skin toned llamas, etc...    The rest of the creative aspects, cannot be mimmicked due to different llamas, as well as different reasons to shoot, i mean i could steal ANY "style" from any makeup artists public photo, if i know what she used.. Use the same patterns colours shapes blah.   

I just want the basics to improve on my own. Such as using latex, building 3D stuff, airbrushing, facial hair, etc.   i would use my kit for the projects.   And i would ask what i want to learn, or rather, shadow, and learn by just watching! smile

Oct 10 12 06:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Hair Stylist
rick lesser
Posts: 685
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


I'm sorry.  Of course you could find someone that could help you and pay for their time.  But I got the impression you were  thinking past the makeup when you mentioned doing hair.  I said it was going to be interesting!  I have a really good friend that teaches makeup classes to talent as well as john q public.  She does very well.  I was reading more into it then the basic info I guess.  It just seemed you was looking to make this a career without much thought past taking a few classes and away we go.  I see from what your now saying that you are more serious then you first stated in the opening thread.  So, then if you want to hire someone why not do a posting here or craigslist and see who answers.  Then interview them and get an idea of pricing.  Then you can make a choise based on what you can afford and their talent.  Hope this helps to explain my point.  R-
Oct 10 12 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Lizzy Borden wrote:

i really don't see the problem with this, particularly for the makeup artist part. as long as she is professional and follows proper cleanliness procedures, why is it wrong for her to pay someone to show her the ropes rather than get a job?  maybe she wants to be able to arrange when she learns rather than be put on a schedule.  some MUA's probably learn solely from experimenting and/or youtube videos.  she's even willing to PAY to learn this!

THANK YOU!!!   I agree!!!! This is my problem!!! I live in NOWHERE, and driving EVERYDAY, is difficult, as well, i want to move to vancouver, but you see, rent is toooo expensive on top of 30 000 dollars for my makeup course, my car insurance, gas, food, and somehow support this with nothing more then 10 bucks an hour? Yea right. I need to work, in alberta for a few weeks at a time, make a decent 5000 and visit BC, and still learn from the best of the best!  Its not like im asking for freeee work!! I am willing to pay, much like i would for schooling!

Oct 10 12 06:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2,174
Rochester, New York, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:

THANK YOU!!!   I agree!!!! This is my problem!!! I live in NOWHERE, and driving EVERYDAY, is difficult, as well, i want to move to vancouver, but you see, rent is toooo expensive on top of 30 000 dollars for my makeup course, my car insurance, gas, food, and somehow support this with nothing more then 10 bucks an hour? Yea right. I need to work, in alberta for a few weeks at a time, make a decent 5000 and visit BC, and still learn from the best of the best!  Its not like im asking for freeee work!! I am willing to pay, much like i would for schooling!

heck for that matter, i wonder...to really make it worth an mua's time, maybe you could even go with them on makeup jobs or something? that way they wouldn't feel like they were undercutting themselves but instead making extra money for the same amount of time. if you are largely just observing.  of course idk how mua's feel about this, this is more like an idea i just have but am not sure about.

Oct 10 12 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Hair Stylist
rick lesser
Posts: 685
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


Alberta is out of the way I now get that.  You have to understand I am at the other side of the world so to speak so forgive me if I didn't seem to get the "nowhere thing"  Is there any department stores by you that might hire you for say Christmas at the makeup counter?  I say this because sometimes I have gotten the best training by the most unexpected places.  (like the strip clubs when I first started) R-
Oct 10 12 06:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Tara Pagliara MUA
Posts: 701
New York, New York, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:
Hey!! Im fairly decent at doing makeup, ive only EVER done my own makeup... Never had it done for me! All of my shoots i have done the makeup as well!! Im very artistic and creative and i have the right aspects and dedication necessary.

I want to become a freelance makeup artist as well as some hair styling. (Ive dyed and cut my own hair as well as family and friends prior, and they are ALWAYS satisfied!!)   but with a more professional appeal!! Would you mentor me on your knowledge?! Techniques? Professionalism!! TO DOS, and NOT TO DOS?    Maybe even certain aspects specific to what i am interested in?   I can confirm all of what im looking to learn, as well i can be the model to demonstrate, and in return use the mentor MUA as my practice to replicate?

What would i charge? Or what would YOU be willing to do, for whats reasonable? Schooling is not an option atm, as ive done my research and its not what im into, for what im looking to do!!

You may not actually work with me, but advice in the least is awesome!! smile

Call me crazy, but if I read this correctly what you are basically asking is to apprentice/assist someone and PAY THEM? Why would you pay someone to assist them. As a freelance MUA this is one of the steps to starting off. Find another artist to assist and learn from them, someone who is more established than yourself. Did I miss something, I may have I had a glass of wine hmm

Oct 10 12 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


rick lesser wrote:
Alberta is out of the way I now get that.  You have to understand I am at the other side of the world so to speak so forgive me if I didn't seem to get the "nowhere thing"  Is there any department stores by you that might hire you for say Christmas at the makeup counter?  I say this because sometimes I have gotten the best training by the most unexpected places.  (like the strip clubs when I first started) R-

Actually my work slows down in the winter and i had considered go go dancing! (No nudity personally).  And maybe see if i could get into the strip club makeup behind the scenes on TOP?

Oct 10 12 08:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Tara Pags wrote:

Call me crazy, but if I read this correctly what you are basically asking is to apprentice/assist someone and PAY THEM? Why would you pay someone to assist them. As a freelance MUA this is one of the steps to starting off. Find another artist to assist and learn from them, someone who is more established than yourself. Did I miss something, I may have I had a glass of wine hmm

Yes, i would pay them, so ican work withthe best of the best in action!! I wont do something without paying my dues somehow! Dont want to waste their time, when they are in a hurry! I want the whole shabang however!! The rush, frustrations, the good and the bad of the REAL industry, how to market yourself stuff as well!! Not JUST makeup, but what its truely like to BE one. Not asking to trade contacts, but merely HOW to asscociate! The to dos and not to dos. As well as basic makeup techniques unknown to the talented everyday makeup girl smile   Things included like special FX, fashion, beauty, era/period makeup, aging, bald caps, hair ventilation, beards, maybe extension application weaves etc, from a hair stylist. Etc. just stuff like that, and make a proposition as to the lesson i want to learn!

Oct 10 12 08:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
M_M_MU
Posts: 211
Seattle, Washington, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:

Haha i know you dont, but its certainly something im interested in learning!!   What would the estimate be? Id offer like 10-20 bucks an hour, for maybe 4 hours, 3 times a week? Using my kit and my materials as well!

I would expect that you will pay closer to what it would cost to have the MUA do a test shoot. $150-250 for a half day lesson would probably be reasonable. You would also need a model willing to sit for you while the MUA goes over techniques, but since it wouldn't really be for a shoot that may also be an expense. You could probably pay a model $50-100 for that.

Keep in mind that a one on one makeup lesson will put you miles ahead of where you would get otherwise, but you need to hire a really good MUA to teach you or you won't learn much useful. After a lesson, you can practice on whomever is willing for a while, then take another lesson at which point you will find that you have a list of questions and can have an even more productive learning session. From there I'd expect that you can learn the rest on your own.

Oct 10 12 08:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
M_M_MU
Posts: 211
Seattle, Washington, US


Tara Pags wrote:

Call me crazy, but if I read this correctly what you are basically asking is to apprentice/assist someone and PAY THEM? Why would you pay someone to assist them. As a freelance MUA this is one of the steps to starting off. Find another artist to assist and learn from them, someone who is more established than yourself. Did I miss something, I may have I had a glass of wine hmm

I think it's because at this point she doesn't feel that she is even at the apprentice stage yet. The MUAs I know expect an apprentice to be able to do a basic look with minimal guidance while they do the more complex looks. Or at least do parts of looks to a high standard. Even if the apprentice spends most of the time cleaning brushes, he/she should be capable of stepping in where needed. If the MUA is having to spend his/her time teaching basics that most apprentices should already know, then the MUA would be better off with a different apprentice. Getting paid for the basics instruction would make it a more attractive proposition, which could eventually turn into a more true apprenticeship once the skills meet the minimum requirements for the job.

Oct 10 12 08:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Diana
Posts: 2,372
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Sugar Sharai wrote:
Yes, i would pay them, so ican work withthe best of the best in action!!

I don't want to burst your bubble doll and I applaud your enthusiasm but 'the best of the best' will charge a heck of a lot more than $10-$20 an hour.

Keep in mind that an artists teaching rate is much more than their average commercial rate because they are sharing hard earned knowledge.

I agree with others that suggested assisting. It really is the best way to go.  Example, I wouldn't teach you anything for $80 let alone $40 but you could intern with me for free on a real working set, where you would see me in action on a face that wasn't your own (super important!) and you'de make connections with important industry leaders all at the same time.

Now, which one is more valuable? wink

Oct 10 12 08:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Tara Pagliara MUA
Posts: 701
New York, New York, US


Diana wrote:

I don't want to burst your bubble doll and I applaud your enthusiasm but 'the best of the best' will charge a heck of a lot more than $10-$20 an hour.

Keep in mind that an artists teaching rate is much more than their average commercial rate because they are sharing hard earned knowledge.

I agree with others that suggested assisting. It really is the best way to go.  Example, I wouldn't teach you anything for $80 let alone $40 but you could intern with me for free on a real working set, where you would see me in action on a face that wasn't your own (super important!) and you'de make connections with important industry leaders all at the same time.

Now, which one is more valuable? wink

Exactly.

Oct 10 12 09:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Tara Pagliara MUA
Posts: 701
New York, New York, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:

THANK YOU!!!   I agree!!!! This is my problem!!! I live in NOWHERE, and driving EVERYDAY, is difficult, as well, i want to move to vancouver, but you see, rent is toooo expensive on top of 30 000 dollars for my makeup course, my car insurance, gas, food, and somehow support this with nothing more then 10 bucks an hour? Yea right. I need to work, in alberta for a few weeks at a time, make a decent 5000 and visit BC, and still learn from the best of the best!  Its not like im asking for freeee work!! I am willing to pay, much like i would for schooling!

Maybe see if any artists in your area offer classes first pay for that then get into assisting.

Oct 10 12 09:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,480
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


rick lesser wrote:
This is wrong on so many levels.

I disagree..  Don't we pay teachers to teach ?/

Oct 10 12 09:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Tara Pagliara MUA
Posts: 701
New York, New York, US


M_M_MU wrote:

I think it's because at this point she doesn't feel that she is even at the apprentice stage yet. The MUAs I know expect an apprentice to be able to do a basic look with minimal guidance while they do the more complex looks. Or at least do parts of looks to a high standard. Even if the apprentice spends most of the time cleaning brushes, he/she should be capable of stepping in where needed. If the MUA is having to spend his/her time teaching basics that most apprentices should already know, then the MUA would be better off with a different apprentice. Getting paid for the basics instruction would make it a more attractive proposition, which could eventually turn into a more true apprenticeship once the skills meet the minimum requirements for the job.

So then they would want private lessons or classes. Because offering to pay someone $10-$20 a hour to train her who is on the level she wants is sort of insulting.(I am sure she didnt mean it to be.) Which one day classes usually range in the $350-$500 range for one day here.

Oct 10 12 09:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,048
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


There's an MUA in St. Louis who teaches 3-4 "makeup for models" classes a year. As I recall, the classes are one night a week for 6-8 weeks and cost $125 or $150.

You might ask around and see if anyone in your area does the same thing.
Oct 10 12 09:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


M_M_MU wrote:
I think it's because at this point she doesn't feel that she is even at the apprentice stage yet. The MUAs I know expect an apprentice to be able to do a basic look with minimal guidance while they do the more complex looks. Or at least do parts of looks to a high standard. Even if the apprentice spends most of the time cleaning brushes, he/she should be capable of stepping in where needed. If the MUA is having to spend his/her time teaching basics that most apprentices should already know, then the MUA would be better off with a different apprentice. Getting paid for the basics instruction would make it a more attractive proposition, which could eventually turn into a more true apprenticeship once the skills meet the minimum requirements for the job.

i wouldnt necessarily say that i am not up to the apprenticeship level, but rather, i would much more prefer to do one on one lessons, where we could even use myself as a llama to practice for demonstration, and i can apply it to working on my portfolio book, as well as practicing, and testing, and possibly working makeup retail, or even back stage strip club/theatre work? i am AWESOME at the usual makeup! foundation, colour wheel, skin tones, toner, primer, water for more creme sheer shadows, brushes and small strokes for blending, etc, little things like smokey eye, or bright colours. i can even do wounds!!

but im wanting to get into something along the lines of more technically enhanced makeup. things like latex, fashion makeup (not clean but rather creative/artistic), as well as gore, and sci fi, facial hair, prosthetics, bald caps, etc. the more complex stuff that doesnt involve a simple substance and a brush or sponge... lol    theres LOTS of makeup products to use, with more technical aspects, i want to learn these!   as well as the usual everyday life, as well as marketing skills!

Oct 10 12 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Camerosity wrote:
There's an MUA in St. Louis who teaches 3-4 "makeup for models" classes a year. As I recall, the classes are one night a week for 6-8 weeks and cost $125 or $150.

You might ask around and see if anyone in your area does the same thing.

thank you!! thats something to keep in mind!!  : D

Oct 10 12 09:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Tara Pags wrote:

Exactly.

no bubble bursted! i agree with you both!! i more so just want to touch my toes in the water on this, for NOW, and if i enjoy it, slowly improve at a reasonably dedicated rate! ( being that i DO in fact model. i can apply these techniques to my new concepts!)

Oct 10 12 09:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Tara Pags wrote:

So then they would want private lessons or classes. Because offering to pay someone $10-$20 a hour to train her who is on the level she wants is sort of insulting.(I am sure she didnt mean it to be.) Which one day classes usually range in the $350-$500 range for one day here.

what type of course load would i be looking at? because lets be honest, a FANTASTIC artist may agree to this for the money, but not agree to it necessarily to teach, and rather just bramble about stuff that i am not interested in, or i already know? thats my only issue! i want to be satisfied with what i pay for! and make sure i learn exactly what i intended to, and to the right extent, that i can improve and learn on my own, with that technique.

lets say, example one, airbrushing.... i want to know shading, iwant to know what products to use on what surface (IE: prosthetics, latex, whatever the case may be!) i want to know the proper composition, whats dangerous, and looks bad, the proper professionalism to perform the tasks, on even nude models if the case may be. etc.

Oct 10 12 09:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Ms BSK
Posts: 886
Brooklyn, New York, US


Diana wrote:

I don't want to burst your bubble doll and I applaud your enthusiasm but 'the best of the best' will charge a heck of a lot more than $10-$20 an hour.

Keep in mind that an artists teaching rate is much more than their average commercial rate because they are sharing hard earned knowledge.

I agree with others that suggested assisting. It really is the best way to go.  Example, I wouldn't teach you anything for $80 let alone $40 but you could intern with me for free on a real working set, where you would see me in action on a face that wasn't your own (super important!) and you'de make connections with important industry leaders all at the same time.

Now, which one is more valuable? wink

Listen to Diana - she is the type of person you would want to intern with. You don't have the experience to assist full out but there isn't any reason you can't intern with someone whose work you admire. It isn't easy finding those spots, it does take a lot of networking. Also 95% of the time you will work for free or just about. I would say take whatever money you have and pay for lessons when you need them and with whatever is left invest in your career. There are oodles of things you will want and need. I don't think that paying someone to be your mentor is a great idea. Pay them to teach you what you want to learn but mentorship is a bigger role than that. You want to be able to talk, text, Skype or email them. How will they charge for that and how will you pay for it? Is it free if it is a short session and then after 15 minutes the hourly rate will kick in? There are artists who love what they do and they will mentor someone for free. It is going to take time to build and establish those relationships. I have an artist that I assisted once but hit it off and I go to her with all of my (reasonable) questions and concerns. She hears me out offers advice and all of this happens for free. She also knows that I would assist her anywhere, anytime in a heart beat. She has expanded my network as well. I've gone on to assist three other artists just from her referrals. Sometimes I sound like a broken drum the way to develop a career is from your network. Get to know the artists in your area - make them your friends (in a sincere way) and watch your world expand and open up.

Oct 10 12 09:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Tara Pagliara MUA
Posts: 701
New York, New York, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:
what type of course load would i be looking at? because lets be honest, a FANTASTIC artist may agree to this for the money, but not agree to it necessarily to teach, and rather just bramble about stuff that i am not interested in, or i already know? thats my only issue! i want to be satisfied with what i pay for! and make sure i learn exactly what i intended to, and to the right extent, that i can improve and learn on my own, with that technique.

lets say, example one, airbrushing.... i want to know shading, iwant to know what products to use on what surface (IE: prosthetics, latex, whatever the case may be!) i want to know the proper composition, whats dangerous, and looks bad, the proper professionalism to perform the tasks, on even nude models if the case may be. etc.

You want to be satisfied for what you pay for????? I really think you best option is to go to a school or pay for courses because what are you going to do cut the artist off and say NO I DONT CARE ABOUT THIS please move on?? Your last paragraph just outlined an airbrushing course. Pay for classes then assist.

Oct 10 12 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SugarSharai photography
Posts: 387
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


Ms BSK wrote:

Listen to Diana - she is the type of person you would want to intern with. You don't have the experience to assist full out but there isn't any reason you can't intern with someone whose work you admire. It isn't easy finding those spots, it does take a lot of networking. Also 95% of the time you will work for free or just about. I would say take whatever money you have and pay for lessons when you need them and with whatever is left invest in your career. There are oodles of things you will want and need. I don't think that paying someone to be your mentor is a great idea. Pay them to teach you what you want to learn but mentorship is a bigger role than that. You want to be able to talk, text, Skype or email them. How will they charge for that and how will you pay for it? Is it free if it is a short session and then after 15 minutes the hourly rate will kick in? There are artists who love what they do and they will mentor someone for free. It is going to take time to build and establish those relationships. I have an artist that I assisted once but hit it off and I go to her with all of my (reasonable) questions and concerns. She hears me out offers advice and all of this happens for free. She also knows that I would assist her anywhere, anytime in a heart beat. She has expanded my network as well. I've gone on to assist three other artists just from her referrals. Sometimes I sound like a broken drum the way to develop a career is from your network. Get to know the artists in your area - make them your friends (in a sincere way) and watch your world expand and open up.

Thank you smile very valid points made and i agree completely! Perhaps with hands on, i will pay, but rather perhaps a lot of techniques and ettoquette i will admit, yes very well COULD be discussed online!! Just a matter of finding the artists willing to do so!!     

Suggestions as to find them would be awesome!!   Is cold emailing/messaging all it takes? And just ask every one that i admire i suppose is the best option for me rightnow?

Oct 11 12 04:33 am  Link  Quote 
Body Painter
Lisa Berczel
Posts: 3,958
Corona, California, US


Good discussion.....

I would ad that airbrush education is best done in person. So much of airbrush is being able to Listen to what the equipment sounds like - it will Tell You there's a problem.

As to paid training, I do it all the time in small groups or one-on-one consulting

Price ranges from $75-$400/day depending on if the class is sponsored or direct consulting, the location, number of students and the content......
Oct 11 12 09:38 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
M_M_MU
Posts: 211
Seattle, Washington, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:
i wouldnt necessarily say that i am not up to the apprenticeship level, but rather, i would much more prefer to do one on one lessons, where we could even use myself as a model to practice for demonstration, and i can apply it to working on my portfolio book, as well as practicing, and testing, and possibly working makeup retail, or even back stage strip club/theatre work? i am AWESOME at the usual makeup! foundation, colour wheel, skin tones, toner, primer, water for more creme sheer shadows, brushes and small strokes for blending, etc, little things like smokey eye, or bright colours. i can even do wounds!!

but im wanting to get into something along the lines of more technically enhanced makeup. things like latex, fashion makeup (not clean but rather creative/artistic), as well as gore, and sci fi, facial hair, prosthetics, bald caps, etc. the more complex stuff that doesnt involve a simple substance and a brush or sponge... lol    theres LOTS of makeup products to use, with more technical aspects, i want to learn these!   as well as the usual everyday life, as well as marketing skills!

If you get lessons, it would be a waste of time to have the MUA do makeup on you. You won't be able to see anything she is doing from the normal perspective that you would be working from and you wouldn't be able to step in and try some of what you are being shown to know that you understand. Plus, the biggest challenge of doing makeup is being able to achieve a specific look on a face that is different from the last one and different (probably) from any face you've worked with before. You may be able to learn blending or other basics like that working on yourself (and from the sounds of it you feel you already know these things), but the problem is that you are doing it on the face you know best. Every face needs a different approach and often different products.

I happen to agree with someone earlier who suggested that working at a makeup counter will give you some unexpectedly good experience. I've worked a few events where you work on perhaps 50 people (maybe more?) per day, with every face different from the last. Plus, these are normal people, not models, so it is even more challenging to use the right products in the right ways with them. When you go back to working on a model, it's considerably easier. Things you run into at events or mall shows is people with very narrow spaced deep set eyes (I find this particularly difficult), people with lots of wrinkles (stay away from anything shimmery, etc.), super narrow/small lips, eyebrows that have been picked to nothing in some of the strangest ways, etc. etc. You also often are stuck with a very limited line of products that they are promoting that does not necessarily lend itself well to all these situations and since you are there to rep those products you don't get to dig into your own kit. In most cases, you may be completely unfamiliar with the products prior to showing up at the event, but will have to find a way to speak glowingly about them while you may not really care for them much.

Another place that you may be able to pick up experience is local small runway shows. They are often in need of MUAs, since they have no budget for it. Plus in a town like Edmonton there aren't so many MUAs willing to do the job that they can book it easily. At these shows I've typically done around 5-20 faces, and unlike a photoshoot they must be done very quickly. While you get a little more room for error in terms of quality as compared to a studio shoot, the looks must still hold up well under full length shots from the photographers attending. Also, the looks are usually very amplified compared to a photoshoot, so you have to be able to go a little over the top so it looks right on stage. There are often lots of adjustments between lines for multiple designers, so you sometimes get assigned a group of models and have to grab them off the stage when their first walk is done, then change them up quickly for the next walk. Again, a good place for some very useful experience because it teaches you to work quickly while under pressure.

Otherwise, I got my start by learning from two good MUA friends, who I did hire to give me some lessons. Prior to that, I had never used makeup (I'm a guy, though I do know some who do), nor do I have any family members who do either. I took about 4 lessons, 2 from each artist. Each time, I had a model to work on and traded on and off with the MUA doing the work. We would do 2 or 3 looks, starting natural and working up to something more edgy (but still within an agency test shoot range). From my experience, I found that you have to space the lessons out by about a month, and in between work hard on anyone who will let you to practice what you learned (or at least what you think you learned!). Then take another lesson and find out what you've misunderstood and are doing a little off, correct that and practice some more. I was taught by two MUAs that have very different approaches, which I also felt was helpful (though conflicting at times as well). From those diverse approaches, I was able to see that there are many ways to achieve the same result, and that it is as important to figure out what works for you as much as it is to understand what works for the person instructing you. There will also be very different thoughts on products from MUA to MUA, so working with more than one does give you a broad exposure to products from which you can figure out what your own preferences are.

I did not personally need to call very much for questions. I can only think of about 3 or 4 short conversations over the phone where I had questions. Otherwise, I felt that if I had some questions it was best to write them down and book another lesson that covered those issues. Most of the time, through my own practicing I would find the answers on my own and I could scratch them off the list without imposing with a phone call.

Oct 11 12 11:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Thomas Van Dyke
Posts: 1,454
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Lisa Berczel wrote:
...I would ad that airbrush education is best done in person. So much of airbrush is being able to Listen to what the equipment sounds like - it will Tell You there's a problem...

priceless wisdom from a tenured commercial talent... airbrush is indeed a completely unique art form... there is no tactile feedback as with traditional technique which takes considerable advantage of the sensory modality of touch/feel to control the application of product... with airbrush medium an artist is guided almost entirely by visual clues and nuanced audio (equipment) feedback to drive application methodologies and the look's ultimate aesthetic...

think about learning to touch type... without a mentor/teacher/instructor it becomes more a challenge than it needs to be...

best to listen to Lisa's counsel here... it is sterling...

Oct 11 12 12:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Denise
Posts: 1,911
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada


You might want to add your name to the "willing to assist" thread that is back on the first page. Also find the thread with the list of MU mentors and you may find someone in the Edmonton area willing to help you. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions & I'll do my best to answer. I'm not on MM every day so best to contact me via my FB page or email. I also recommend you plan to attend IMATS in Vancouver next year - lots of learning and networking opportunities.
All the best in your journey!
Oct 11 12 05:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 455
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Sugar Sharai wrote:

Is apprenticeship wrong?    They do it in trades, hairdressing as you said, the teach like in art schools, makeup artists get paid to teach, why wouldnt you consider the option of being a teacher YOURSELF, and get a bit more consistent work for a period of time, rather then ONE job every blue moon, (not to say thats all it is, but its an extra cherry on the cake). Not only that, i would say a mentorship is what the most successful would do, like photographers that hold workshops, whether you want to call it workshops, or mentorship, or shadowing, or apprenticeship, whats so wrong with that?   

If your concerned about someone stealing your "style"  come on... We all learn the same general techniques as to what works best for the photoshoot, bridal, or dark skinned models, wide eyed models, bad skin toned models, etc...    The rest of the creative aspects, cannot be mimmicked due to different models, as well as different reasons to shoot, i mean i could steal ANY "style" from any makeup artists public photo, if i know what she used.. Use the same patterns colours shapes blah.   

I just want the basics to improve on my own. Such as using latex, building 3D stuff, airbrushing, facial hair, etc.   i would use my kit for the projects.   And i would ask what i want to learn, or rather, shadow, and learn by just watching! smile

I don't know what your thinking as apprenticeship.  Over here in Germany they do it, but you do your job in apprenticeship 5 days a week for 3 years before your considered competent.  Do you really know what you're talking about?

Jan 21 13 06:58 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Robb Mann
Posts: 10,006
Baltimore, Maryland, US


I don't think you can mentor for cash. You can teach for cash...
Jan 21 13 07:06 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
Denise
Posts: 1,911
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada


This thread is from last fall and it now appears the OP has decided to become a photographer instead of MUAH.
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=876485
Jan 21 13 04:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
kat makeup artist
Posts: 182
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Denise wrote:
This thread is from last fall and it now appears the OP has decided to become a photographer instead of MUAH.
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=876485

ok i just read all 5 pages of that thread as well as the responses from here.

all i can say is this

is this just one big joke seriously???? like what the?? can you seriously be so naive to such an extreme ??? i have met some seriously silly young people but this takes the cake. This has to be a joke.

Jan 22 13 04:44 am  Link  Quote 
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