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Photographer
Eridu
Posts: 623
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:

roll

Yes, MY MODELS, ALL MINE, MUHAAAAAWAAA!!!

Oct 13 12 04:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Philip Duarte
Posts: 133
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Orca Bay Images wrote:

Karl Philip Duarte  wrote:
Hmmmm I guess are not real pros  at my shoots I have my team there plus clients and makeup so an escort is irelevant even on the nude shoots I do....hmmm what are you all afraid of....Does this mean you want to be alone with the model, what purpose does this give you, is making the model unconfortable you way,

Cut the white-knighting.

Not afraid. Annoyed at the disruptions some escorts have created. Annoyed at the loss of equipment when the only unoccupied hands at the shoot were those of the escort. Annoyed at having to brace for not only the model cancelling for her own reasons, but also cancelling if the escort bails.

I don't need to be alone with the model. I'm fine with having other people there as long as those people are part of the shoot and behave accordingly. Other models awaiting their turn in a multi-model shoot have never gotten out of line in my shoots. Hair and MUAs, if they pipe up at all, do so for the benefit of the shoot. Escorts have occasionally been helpful, but more often than not they've run roughshod over the shoot. And when I told them to cool it they get miffed and throw an even bigger wrench into the shoot.

what if it is a male model , are no escorts allowed as well.

Yes. A male model can be just as distracted by an intrusive escort as a female model can.


There are plenty of escort threads for you to browse. Do your own damned homework.

Oct 13 12 04:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,626
Albany, New York, US


Aly Danielle wrote:
I'm just wondering why some photographers say no escorts; unless its a female escort.

Because they're willing to address the "well, you're a strange person on the internet I've never met" concerns AND the female friend coming w/ you is perceived as less threatening.

It just is what it is.

Oct 13 12 04:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ChanStudio - OtherSide
Posts: 5,309
Alpharetta, Georgia, US


Aly Danielle wrote:
I'm just wondering why some photographers say no escorts; unless its a female escort.

a female cant steal from you?
a female cant hurt you?
a female cant distract from the shoot?

if i was a photographer, i would either allow escorts; or not at all. not discriminate what escorts are ok and which aren't by gender,race, etc.

I agree but a lot of times things do not work that way..  Gender role do make some people feel more comfortable than others.

  Personally, I think male or female both could be dangerous if you don't know them.  It is safer to have a team a the photo shoot..

Oct 13 12 05:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Philip Duarte
Posts: 133
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Karl Philip Duarte  wrote:

!st of all I have done my research and in 30 yrs of shooting I have never had an issue with an escort and I have shot at one point hardcore for several websites......and if the model's issues come into question they are quickly reminded that the contract they signed was for the shoot they were there for....so maybe if you paid your models then maybe that would no longer be an issue..My work has also been client based so the $$ is no issue the client is paying and when it is for my personal work the budget that I have for the project covers the model fees. I guess I have been lucky.....

Oct 13 12 05:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,719
Lodi, California, US


Autonomy II wrote:
Yes, MY llamaS, ALL MINE, MUHAAAAAWAAA!!!

At at least half the llama shoots I've done via omp and MM over the years, I never bothered finding out if the llama was single or married or even dating someone. Didn't know if some were straight or lesbian. Didn't care. Wasn't my business. I was there for the images.

Oct 13 12 05:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eridu
Posts: 623
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
At at least half the model shoots I've done via omp and MM over the years, I never bothered finding out if the model was single or married or even dating someone. Didn't know if some were straight or lesbian. Didn't care. Wasn't my business. I was there for the images.

Nuance is lost on the young

Oct 13 12 05:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,726
London, England, United Kingdom


Innovative Imagery wrote:
Macho guys don't think a girl can beat them up.

On TV, I never understand why they never just kick their assailant in the balls? Job done!

Oct 13 12 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 4,801
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
At at least half the model shoots I've done via omp and MM over the years, I never bothered finding out if the model was single or married or even dating someone. Didn't know if some were straight or lesbian. Didn't care. Wasn't my business. I was there for the images.

And the other half?

Oct 13 12 07:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 4,801
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


ChanStudio - OtherSide wrote:
Personally, I think male or female both could be dangerous if you don't know them.  It is safer to have a team a the photo shoot..

Or even better and safer... always shoot in a public place (preferably in view of a police station).

Oct 13 12 07:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KModel Photography
Posts: 200
Wellington, Wellington, New Zealand


I've had lots of both at my shoots, and I can say only 10% of male escorts contribute to the shoot in some way (many are a distraction), but 90% of female escorts contribute, ie., help with dressing, makeup, props, ideas, encouragement & positive feedback, etc.  In general I discourage escorts for studio work unless I strongly feel that they'll help achieve a better outcome.  But I usually don't mind an escort at a beach shoot.
Oct 13 12 07:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,262
Imperial, California, US


Isn't there a law against female escorts in some places???:-))))))
Oct 13 12 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
aquarelle
Posts: 1,891
Chicago, Illinois, US


Camerosity wrote:

And the other half?

BINGO! smile

Oct 13 12 07:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,096
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Angela Perez wrote:
It's kind of stupid when I hear people say I don't allow male escorts for my protection but allow female escorts if you want to be protected you should just not allow any type of escort regardless of gender. A female can as easily pull out a gun on you. The stereotype that females are somewhat less dangerous it's ridiculous in this thread.

Exactly...

For the record, in 4 years of modeling, I never brought an escort to a shoot. Ever.

Oct 13 12 09:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
ChaiNoir
Posts: 345
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


Charger Photography wrote:

+10000

+++++10000000000000 wink

Oct 13 12 09:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,719
Lodi, California, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
At at least half the model shoots I've done via omp and MM over the years, I never bothered finding out if the model was single or married or even dating someone. Didn't know if some were straight or lesbian. Didn't care. Wasn't my business. I was there for the images.
Camerosity wrote:
And the other half?

For the other half, relationship status came up in conversation or was obvious when the model's SO said Hi, shook my hand, and left until the shoot was done.

I rarely ask. If it's revealed in conversation, it's because the model brought it up.

Oct 13 12 10:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Lynch
Posts: 2,481
Bowie, Maryland, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Because they simply don't want any other males in their territory. They want the model wife/girlfriend all to themselves and feel threatened, or at least self-conscious, with another male prowling their turf and eyeing their behavior and THEIR model wife/girlfriend.

You just perfectly described why so many photographers don't allow male escorts and the potential they have to be disruptive on set.

Oct 14 12 03:52 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Angela Perez
Posts: 340
Orlando, Florida, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
No, it's not. Either sex can pull a gun, but usually only the male poses the potential of an unarmed physical threat.

I don't agree I can show you tons of videos of a women beating up a guy strictly with her hands. You are just stereotyping. A women can be just as dangerous as a man.

Oct 14 12 05:21 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
MainePaintah
Posts: 1,530
Saco, Maine, US


aquarelle wrote:
Call it stereotyping if you want to, but this is from my own experience:

The two times I allowed male escorts anywhere near the premises, the models were noticeably inhibited, in two ways-- concerned about what the escort would think about the artwork we were creating, and concerned about the time we were taking.  The males were out in the hall or down the street calling, texting "how much longer," "when are you gonna be done," etc.

Never had that happen with female escorts. Not only were they encouraging and helpful, on three of four occasions that the model brought a female with her, her escort agreed to pose as well.  Two of the escorts had never posed nude before.

Male escorts?   No thanks.

Female escorts?  Bring 'em on!

I agree!

It only happened to me once, but I buzzed in a model to my studio expecting her to be alone but when I opened my studio door, she had another girl with her. When she saw my puzzled look she said "This is my friend, and she wants to know if she can model with me"?

How could I have said no to that? They were both friendly and good models and they came back together to model quite a few times!

Oct 14 12 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 37,758
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


I don't allow http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/88-90_Ford_Escort_Wagon.jpg/120px-88-90_Ford_Escort_Wagon.jpgs.

Male or female

There is no difference
Oct 14 12 09:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,349
Columbus, Ohio, US


Aly Danielle wrote:
I'm just wondering why some photographers say no escorts; unless its a female escort.

a female cant steal from you?
a female cant hurt you?
a female cant distract from the shoot?

if i was a photographer, i would either allow escorts; or not at all. not discriminate what escorts are ok and which aren't by gender,race, etc.

I don't go that route.....one of the biggest travesties I ever had was when a model brought her GF.....her actual GF, as in SO.

Oct 14 12 09:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Desoer
Posts: 148
Cayuga, Ontario, Canada


Oct 14 12 10:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
imcFOTO
Posts: 566
Bothell, Washington, US


Aly Danielle wrote:
I'm just wondering why some photographers say no escorts; unless its a female escort.

a female cant steal from you?
a female cant hurt you?
a female cant distract from the shoot?

if i was a photographer, i would either allow escorts; or not at all. not discriminate what escorts are ok and which aren't by gender,race, etc.

I do understand why it can be confusing and I've had long conversations trying to convince some models why I have a female escort only policy.

For a start - I don't shoot with anyone in my studio room except me and the model. I feel inhibited and often find the model is too (even for very non-sexy shoots). I sometimes have a MUA but she works in the main bathroom and either hangs out in the main bedroom (model's changing area) or little office.

So if it's a female escort (sister, Mom, friend) they can usually just hang out in the bedroom, watch netflix, and help choosing next outfits etc. Often that female escort will help with hair, make-up touch-up too when there's no MUA.

So logistically, having a guy there creates problems. I don't want a guy around where the model is choosing outfits and changing.

More importantly, I do not want some jealous boyfriend or husband lurking around. It really does changes the vibes and the one time I allowed it, I vowed never again.

Now, I am happy to meet a model and significant other prior to a shoot for a chat. I'm also ok with their male escort bringing them, checking out the place (and me) and then taking off till we're done. I've found that once I've offered all these options, we are usually cool.

The one I totally steered clear of was the model with a male manager who insisted he needed to be there to help with the posing! No way!

Oct 14 12 12:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
imcFOTO
Posts: 566
Bothell, Washington, US


Aly Danielle wrote:
a female cant steal from you?
a female cant hurt you?

You should meet some of my former girlfriends - a few psychos amongst them I can tell you!

Actually, I would hope no-one's going to be stealing - never really occured to me that they would.

It's not about who could hurt who either - jeesh, looking at some of the heels on the shoes in my rack, a well place kick and I could be singing soprano!

Mostly, it's because a lot of guys get jealous or feel they have to somehow act more manly when they're in a position of being the 'protector' - its in our genes. I don't need that macho nonsense around killing my artistic vibes thanks.

Oct 14 12 12:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,719
Lodi, California, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
No, it's not. Either sex can pull a gun, but usually only the male poses the potential of an unarmed physical threat.
Angela Perez wrote:
I don't agree I can show you tons of videos of a women beating up a guy strictly with her hands. You are just stereotyping. A women can be just as dangerous as a man.

I guess you missed my use of the word, "usually."

Kinda fits with your use of "can be."

Oct 14 12 12:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Just Aly
Posts: 401
Elmira, New York, US


Instead of stereotyping; isn't it a lot easier just to specifically say what kind of escort is allowed?
If you would allow someone there to help with outfit changes and makeup, I have many gay friends who are experts with that. But they're male. So therefore would that instantly make them not welcome?

What if my escort is a tranny. Then how do you deal with your gender specific rule?
Oct 14 12 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Top Level Studio
Posts: 3,232
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


I normally don't allow escorts, but I made an exception a couple of weeks ago.  The model was very inexperienced (her 2nd shoot) and her escort was the very experienced model who had introduced her to me.

Xevv, the experienced model, coached Brittany, the beginner, and posed for half the shots herself.

It worked out well.  Brittany got valuable experience (Xevv recommended me to her because I give more direction than some other photographers) and I got to shoot with Xevv.

Here's one of the pictures of Xevv:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pi … 7#30227687

This is one of very few cases where I would allow an escort.  Normally, I wouldn't want or need the distraction.

BTW, quite a few of my pix have low view counts because they were uploaded in the last two weeks, after I upgraded to Premium membership.
Oct 14 12 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ThriftyPhoto
Posts: 21
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada


I only have 2 rules when it comes to escorts.

1)  Stay out of the way of the flash/light
2)  Don't be jealous that all my attention is on the model, and I'll largely ignore you.
Oct 14 12 02:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bwhstudios
Posts: 73
Hingham, Massachusetts, US


Fotografica Gregor wrote:
That is kinda funky if you ask me

I just say *no escort or any other extraneous personnel on my set*  - period.

Your escort can drive you to my studio, can meet me and look around,  then he / she / it / they - whatever - need to find somewhere else to hang around til the shoot is over....

My MUA Hair stylist and wardrobe stylist / designer and any of my photographic assistants should not have to dance around your escort and neither should I....

but then again, if you are asking to bring an escort you would probably not wind up at my studio in the first instance...

I agree.  I never had a problem with an escort of either sex until recently.  I showed a male escort into an adjacent office and said he could use the PC there but not the internet.  He then proceeded to use the internet.  There have been a number of arrests in this area for child porn and the last thing I need is my IP address being tracked from such websites.

I agree with Gregor.  Come in and meet me.  See that I'm not a raving maniac and then go out to find a place to hang around for the duration of the shoot.

Oct 15 12 06:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,300
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Aly Danielle wrote:
Instead of stereotyping; isn't it a lot easier just to specifically say what kind of escort is allowed?
If you would allow someone there to help with outfit changes and makeup, I have many gay friends who are experts with that. But they're male. So therefore would that instantly make them not welcome?

What if my escort is a tranny. Then how do you deal with your gender specific rule?

There's nothing about any of what you have written that makes it seem like less of a problem or less distracting. Stereotypes are useful because they allow us to quickly make decisions on limited information. If I had a no male escorts policy and someone wanted to discuss gender stereotypes then I'd probably just go on to a model who could agree to the condition and get on with discussing the shoot.

Oct 15 12 06:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The Falcons Nest
Posts: 541
Brooklyn, New York, US


I don't have a rule on escorts but I tend to shy away from shooting models that feel like that need someone there for their protection. It makes ME feel stereotyped. I've been doing this too long to have to work under a cloak of suspicion of wanting to hurt somebody. I'm not hard up for models so I can avoid models that need a bodyguard and stick to the ones that come, take care of business and leave happy w/o the extra baggage.

However I TOTALLY understand the female escort only policy. I sometimes shoot glam/nudes with girls doing back to back sessions in studios that are often just open space. Once during the middle of a shoot day with girls walking around naked and half dressed all day a model shows up with her male escort. I thought that was just rude. I had to use v-flats to build a corner to sit him in. I should've sent them both home.
Oct 15 12 07:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bentprism photography
Posts: 31
Los Angeles, California, US


It is because most guys can't handle their girlfriend being sexy and/or naked in front of another guy, much less a guy taking a picture of them that way. The last thing any photog needs is a jealous significant other going psycho. At the very least it's a complete waste of time. And it could get physical.

A female escort is much more likely to be supportive (not guaranteed, but more likely) and not get in the way.

There are always exceptions.
Oct 15 12 09:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,750
Olivet, Michigan, US


Top Level Studio wrote:
I normally don't allow escorts, but I made an exception a couple of weeks ago.  The model was very inexperienced (her 2nd shoot) and her escort was the very experienced model who had introduced her to me.

Xevv, the experienced model, coached Brittany, the beginner, and posed for half the shots herself.

It worked out well.  Brittany got valuable experience (Xevv recommended me to her because I give more direction than some other photographers) and I got to shoot with Xevv.

Here's one of the pictures of Xevv:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pi … 7#30227687

This is one of very few cases where I would allow an escort.  Normally, I wouldn't want or need the distraction.

BTW, quite a few of my pix have low view counts because they were uploaded in the last two weeks, after I upgraded to Premium membership.

That sounds like a "coach" and a "second model."  Nothing to do with an escort, really.  Especially since it sounds like you already had a working relationship with "Xevv."

Oct 15 12 09:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
4 R D
Posts: 985
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico


I do not allow escorts, regardless of gender. Exceptions apply when the llama needs an assistant to put on some wardrobe, like a corset.
Oct 15 12 09:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,750
Olivet, Michigan, US


bentprism photography wrote:
It is because most guys can't handle their girlfriend being sexy and/or naked in front of another guy, much less a guy taking a picture of them that way. The last thing any photog needs is a jealous significant other going psycho. At the very least it's a complete waste of time. And it could get physical.

A female escort is much more likely to be supportive (not guaranteed, but more likely) and not get in the way.

There are always exceptions.

This.  Usually, escorts are requested by novices, not experienced models.  With that in mind, just do a search for "Jealous boyfriend" and you'll see that it's a consistent problem.

Oct 15 12 09:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23,345
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


P I X I E wrote:
lol at the stereotyping...

+1

No escorts, regardless of gender.

Oct 15 12 09:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23,345
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Aly Danielle wrote:
Instead of stereotyping; isn't it a lot easier just to specifically say what kind of llama herder is allowed?
If you would allow someone there to help with outfit changes and makeup, I have many gay friends who are experts with that. But they're male. So therefore would that instantly make them not welcome?

What if my llama herder is a tranny. Then how do you deal with your gender specific rule?

Now, you're just being silly and argumentative, with your gay and transsexual scenarios that just perpetuate stereotypes.

If you need someone to help with wardrobe, that's not an llama herder. Let the photographer know, and he/she should be able to work something out.

If you need help with makeup, that would be a make-up artist, and not an llama herder. Photographers that do not allow llama herders don't mind MUA's. They welcome them.

Oct 15 12 09:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23,345
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


bwhstudios wrote:
I never had a problem with an escort of either sex until recently.  I showed a male escort into an adjacent office and said he could use the PC there but not the internet.  He then proceeded to use the internet.  There have been a number of arrests in this area for child porn and the last thing I need is my IP address being tracked from such websites.

Usually, all it takes is one bad escort experience, and many photographers re-evaluate their positions on escorts.

bwhstudios wrote:
I agree with Gregor.  Come in and meet me.  See that I'm not a raving maniac and then go out to find a place to hang around for the duration of the shoot.

And that would be a driver, not an escort.

Oct 15 12 09:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 3,070
Los Angeles, California, US


I don't know...I'd be kinda pissed as a model to spend time with a photographer talking and preparing for a shoot then right in the middle turn to my cute friend and invite her in the frame. Makes me want to scream "Go back to your corner!"

But I never once brought an escort/bodyguard to a shoot. Mainly because I'm too trusting of strangers and figure if they're gonna kill me I hope they record it and post it.
Oct 15 12 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Just Aly
Posts: 401
Elmira, New York, US


Image K wrote:

Now, you're just being silly and argumentative, with your gay and transsexual scenarios that just perpetuate stereotypes.

If you need someone to help with wardrobe, that's not an escort. Let the photographer know, and he/she should be able to work something out.

If you need help with makeup, that would be a make-up artist, and not an escort. Photographers that do not allow escorts don't mind MUA's. They welcome them.

Silly and argumentive?

A few people in this thread stated they welcome escorts who "help with outfit changes and makeup" which, I agree, you might as well call them a stylist and mua. It was also stated that a female escort that could model for them would be welcome, therefore not making her an escort but an extra model.

Now I'm simply stating that instead of saying "female escorts" and stereotyping. You can Say "muas, stylists, and extra female models welcome, SOs, and people serving no purpose but to distract from the shoot are not" so if not stereotyping makes me silly, then yes I'm very silly :p


But like I said...I never bring escorts at all.

Oct 15 12 11:42 pm  Link  Quote 
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