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Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,984
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


David Lumen Photography wrote:

Laura...it looks like you have been modeling for 4 years now.  I find it hard to believe that you have yet to come up with an hourly, half-day, and all-day rate that you like to get for your services?  Travel is not modeling, and is always a separate consideration and negotiation.

If you thought enough of someone to respond...what would be wrong with this...

"Generally speaking, my hourly rate for nude work is $xx with a 2-hour minimum, $yy for a half-day, and $zz for all-day...but rates ultimately depend upon the project.  If travel is involved, those expenses must be covered.  So...what kind of theme did you have in mind?"

I understand not wanting to get blocked into a rate, so "generally speaking" leaves room for change, as does the statement that rates ultimately depend upon the project.  If the photographer wants to add something not contemplated, then address it at the time it comes up. 

And yes...the whole process is one long negotiation...and having spent a number of years as a professional buyer...I can see now that the question of "What did you have in mind?" is somewhat out of sequence in a normal negotiation.

No, saying "generally speaking its this much, but what do you have in mind" means theyre going to tell me a concept and if I want to charge more for it, Im going to hear a lot of whining about how Im too expensive and why cant I negotiate down to what I said before.

Theres nothing odd about wanting to know all the details before setting a price. Having worked for those SIX (separate profiles) years has taught me that. Its much less hassle to just say one price, not spend days haggling and getting on each others nerves.

Nobody wants to hear why youre charging what you are. Nobody wants to hear "my modelling rate is 100 per hour, you want to shoot for only two hours so that would be only 200 dollars, but you need me to drive another 6 hours, so actually I need to charge you several hundred more dollars to make this a profitable experience for me...what do you have in mind?" They just want a number. I also dont owe it to anyone to itemize my rate so they can sit there and be indignant about what it is theyre being charged for and why.

Especially when so many people want to lowball you from the get-go, trying to go UP from your "base rate" is near impossible. In any other real life situation that involves negotiation the first person to name a price usually starts higher and lets themselves get haggled down to what they really wanted. Unfortunately with model mayhem, people would rather just not even bother answering that, go hire a newbie for half your rate, then come to the forums and bitch about how they paid a inexperienced model and it was terrible and theyll never pay a model again because its not worth it.

Oct 23 12 03:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,984
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Leo Howard wrote:

Heeeyyyy wait a minute, last time I talked to you, you said you were okay with the concept of shooting with 3 midgets, a goat, a trampoline and a bowling ball . . . . tongue

ONLY with you...if its artistic

Oct 23 12 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jessie Shannon
Posts: 2,004
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Leo Howard wrote:
Heeeyyyy wait a minute, last time I talked to you, you said you were okay with the concept of shooting with 3 midgets, a goat, a trampoline and a bowling ball . . . . tongue

SHIT!! You stole my idea!!! wink

Oct 23 12 04:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


David Lumen Photography wrote:

Laura...it looks like you have been modeling for 4 years now.  I find it hard to believe that you have yet to come up with an hourly, half-day, and all-day rate that you like to get for your services?  Travel is not modeling, and is always a separate consideration and negotiation.

If you thought enough of someone to respond...what would be wrong with this...

"Generally speaking, my hourly rate for nude work is $xx with a 2-hour minimum, $yy for a half-day, and $zz for all-day...but rates ultimately depend upon the project.  If travel is involved, those expenses must be covered.  So...what kind of theme did you have in mind?"

I understand not wanting to get blocked into a rate, so "generally speaking" leaves room for change, as does the statement that rates ultimately depend upon the project.  If the photographer wants to add something not contemplated, then address it at the time it comes up. 

And yes...the whole process is one long negotiation...and having spent a number of years as a professional buyer...I can see now that the question of "What did you have in mind?" is somewhat out of sequence in a normal negotiation.

David, as a buyer you also understand how difficult it is to negociuate upwards which is a skill a lot of people don't have. Your suggestion leaves very little room for maneuver if the model decides you are asking for something they would charge than their average rate. Also if they come in too high for something they are not being asked to do would probably scare  many off.

I really don't see what your problem is, are you saying all models must be professional negotiators?

Oct 24 12 01:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Stone Imaging
Posts: 600
Seattle, Washington, US


Darren Brade wrote:
David, as a buyer you also understand how difficult it is to negociuate upwards which is a skill a lot of people don't have. Your suggestion leaves very little room for maneuver if the model decides you are asking for something they would charge than their average rate. Also if they come in too high for something they are not being asked to do would probably scare  many off.

I really don't see what your problem is, are you saying all models must be professional negotiators?

I really don't have a problem...and please don't take the liberty of mis-characterizing what I've said.  I'm not bitching about anything...and it should be clear that all I am trying to do is gain an insight into a situation that has me perplexed.

Now that I've heard a few stories about why a model would respond with "what did you have in mind?"...I realize that it comes in part from bad experiences with photographers that try to nickle and dime a model.  Personally, I don't take this approach as in my opinion it is a breech of trust...something I find essential to the photographer-model relationship...especially the nude model.

Now then...I understand that a lot of people who start a thread have a problem, and therefore I can understand a certain bias here in thinking I have a problem...but I don't.

Oct 24 12 07:12 am  Link  Quote 
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