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Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,049
Portland, Oregon, US


ms-photo wrote:
There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to start.  It's http://assets.modelmayhem.com/images/smilies/scary.pngthere are guys in Portland trying to pull this stuff.

There are folks like that everywhere, Portland comes into it because it is where she is (and where we are), but there are guys into that kinda thing everywhere.


ms-photo wrote:
Also, I noticed you have some middle aged male "models" in your friends list.  I dunno, personally I use this site for networking, I do not add people unless I am interested in working with them or are friends in real life.

It would seem kind of strange to me that middle aged men would want to be "friends" with my 16 year old daughter.  Seems creepy as hell.

While networking contacts on this site or on Facebook are called "friends", that does not mean there are literal friendships.

To assume it is creepy as hell makes me wonder why your mind immediately goes to think that models networking is different than photographers networking.

Models can talk to other models about their experiences, and people with more experience tend to have more valuable experience to offer.

In her case, being 16, wouldn't a 35 y/o model have more experience to share with her than a 17 y/o, especially in terms of what she should watch out for.

This is a networking site, so what I find creepy is to assume that there is something inappropriate about networking.

What is creepy is the scenario/offer she discussed in the OP, beyond that, you might not want to jump to conclusions about using the "friends" feature on this site is an indication of creepy intentions.

If they are taking her out to drinks or dates, yeah, THAT'S creepy, if they are on this site discussing modeling or photography, that is PRECISELY what the site is designed/intended for.

Oct 27 12 06:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Brightonn
Posts: 234
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


I don't understand.  This shows "Libby's" Nipples - through a very transparent push-up bra.  Talk about *#@%ed up!

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Not exactly true!  It's not illegal for a website that has teenaged models posing in underwear, bikini's etc, as long as it does not cross the line into what is considered pornography.  A perfect example is this website www.trueteenbabes.com which has put the owner through the fire of court and expenses ... but he was aquitted of all charges and continnues to run his site.  Being that it IS NOT a porn site, I believe it's alright for me to post the link as an example.

Oct 27 12 06:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S A L I N G E R
Posts: 602
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. ...  I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it)

There's your answer right there. Problem solved.

My view is that the photographer probably wants to make a website dedicated to underage models in their underwear. Do you really want to be a part of that? I'm almost certain your folks don't want you to be a part of that.

Oct 27 12 06:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25,351
Portland, Oregon, US


MoRina wrote:
Catalogs use agency models.

Websites selling pictures/video of underage girls in their underwear is child porn.
Patrick Walberg wrote:
Not exactly true!  It's not illegal for a website that has teenaged models posing in underwear, bikini's etc, as long as it does not cross the line into what is considered pornography.  A perfect example is this website www.trueteenbabes.com which has put the owner through the fire of court and expenses ... but he was aquitted of all charges and continnues to run his site.  Being that it IS NOT a porn site, I believe it's alright for me to post the link as an example.

It might not be porn but I'd consider it a fly trap "to catch a predator."

My guess is that there's a high percentage of ephebophiles paying to lookie look on that site.

Oct 27 12 06:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kev Lawson
Posts: 7,285
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
Not exactly true!  It's not illegal for a website that has teenaged models posing in underwear, bikini's etc, as long as it does not cross the line into what is considered pornography.  A perfect example is this website www.trueteenbabes.com which has put the owner through the fire of court and expenses ... but he was aquitted of all charges and continnues to run his site.  Being that it IS NOT a porn site, I believe it's alright for me to post the link as an example.

Tons of court costs, and there is/was another one based out of Texas, photog did jail time.

To the OP, a little money now is not worth your future. Stay fresh and young in life and in photo's. Things you do when you are young can come back to haunt you in the future. Just think of the teachers that get fired because they had lingerie shots of themselves posted online from 10 years ago etc...

Oct 27 12 06:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
J Jessica
Posts: 2,253
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, US


Everyone's view on underage underwear modeling is "stay away!".
smile

I don't believe that a photographer willing to pay an inexperienced model $600 is legitimate, so I follow the same view.
Oct 27 12 06:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
hygvhgvkhy
Posts: 2,092
Chicago, Illinois, US


Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. I've been getting asked a lot if I'd be willing to model lingerie and/or glamour, but I've always said no to that since 1. I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it), and 2. Even if I wanted to, I know there's a bunch of controversy about that topic around legal issues so I wouldn't wanna get involved with that.

But then I had an idea. A photographer and I were talking and I said that I would not do lingerie or glamour modeling, but I might consider modeling underwear if it's just kind of like what you'd see in a catalog for junior/teen underwear (not intended to be too sexy/seductive looking either). I gave him these examples:
http://www1.macys.com/shop/womens-cloth … e?id=56273
http://www.kohls.com/catalog/juniors-in … 3000001611

I know this is legal. But what is your view on underage models (16, 17) modeling catalog style underwear? Considering they would just be what you would most likely see in a department store or Fred Meyer catalog or something, my mom would probably be okay with it. The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting.

How does this sound? What is your view on this?

I remember you.

If you are absolutely. 100%. For sure certain you're comfortable being in your bra&underwear around a perfect stranger, then yes, technically images like the ones in PINK &target ads are legal. (And I'm assuming that's what you've posted I haven't checked yet)

But remember that flaking on this shoot, would only hurt you in the future. So please only agree to it if you know you're okay with it. Don't wake up the morning of realizing you don't want to be in a room with your mom and a grown man half naked posing for pictures.

Oct 27 12 06:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months. I've been getting asked a lot if I'd be willing to model lingerie and/or glamour, but I've always said no to that since 1. I think I'm too young for that (neither my parents or I would be okay with it), and 2. Even if I wanted to, I know there's a bunch of controversy about that topic around legal issues so I wouldn't wanna get involved with that.

But then I had an idea. A photographer and I were talking and I said that I would not do lingerie or glamour modeling, but I might consider modeling underwear if it's just kind of like what you'd see in a catalog for junior/teen underwear (not intended to be too sexy/seductive looking either). I gave him these examples:
http://www1.macys.com/shop/womens-cloth … e?id=56273
http://www.kohls.com/catalog/juniors-in … 3000001611

I know this is legal. But what is your view on underage models (16, 17) modeling catalog style underwear? Considering they would just be what you would most likely see in a department store or Fred Meyer catalog or something, my mom would probably be okay with it. The photographer also said that he was asking because he wants to find a model willing to do this (and their parents agreeing and signing the contract of course), and make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting.

How does this sound? What is your view on this?

You are correct that there is nothing illegal about what you are proposing (or the photographer!)  My view is this ... I think that it sounds like the photographer is setting up a paysite, but I could be wrong.  If that is the intent of creating these images, then I can understand the high pay.  He may or may not make a good income from such a website depending on many factors which I wont go into here, but I have researched the model website industry quite a lot.  Most such websites don't make it ... so I would say make sure that you know exactly what his intentions are, also have the site url in the contract.  Most important, GET YOUR MONEY!  LOL 

On the off chance that he is just wanting to practice shooting minor aged models in hopes of getting a contract with one of the department stores .. local or otherwise ... I think he is over paying.   I'm being honest, with your experience level, I would find it odd that is what he has offered to pay because it's not like he is going to make money off your images then.  I have shot minor aged ... teens in appropriate lingerie, swimwear, and under wear ... even some implied like that of Miley Cyrus when she was 17, HOWEVER .. I was paid by parents, or clients, OR I shot in trade ... but rarely did I pay the models.  To this day, on those occasions when I pay models, it does not matter about their age ... I pay from $25 an hour upwards to $100 an hour depending on circumstances .. which I will not go into here.  I look at $600 as a day rate. 

Obviously this is a decision that you and your parents are taking some time to consider and it's a good topic for the forum to discuss.  I admire your ambitions and you have many positives going for you.  What direction do you see yourself going after you turn 18?  Would your modeling as a teen effect any of your future ambitions in any way?  I really can't say .. but if you want to be a school teacher for example, then you probably need to be very careful where your images end up, and what those images get used for.  Are you wanting to approach modeling agencies?  Is fashion your thing, or do you like the idea of some time after you turn 18, doing lots of glamour?  I don't think a few images of you in underwear is going to be harmful to your career ... but what about bullies in school?  It's a lot to consider, and much of these things can wait until you are 18.  Do what you are comfortable with, but most of all, have fun!

Oct 27 12 07:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


Brightonn wrote:
I don't understand.  This shows "Libby's" Nipples - through a very transparent push-up bra.  Talk about *#@%ed up!

You see plenty of teen nipple and even bare breasts in Europe on the fashion catwalks. It's 100% legal.

Oct 27 12 07:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,049
Portland, Oregon, US


J Jessica  wrote:
Everyone's view on underage underwear modeling is "stay away!".
smile

Well, that is not entirely true.

If the OP was saying... I have an offer to shoot this for Macy's or for a Fred Meyer or JC Penney catalog, I'm sure the response would be somewhat different.

Now, one thing about that scenario, that also applies to this scenario is that ALL those scenarios would produce an outcome the OP should consider...   

IS she (and are her parents) okay with pictures of her in underwear being posted, even on a commercial web site, or being printed in newspaper ads for her friends, teachers, and friends of her parents to look at (as well as the unscrupulous of our society to look at), as even in the "best" of cases, there are still things like those which some folks could view as negatives/problems/not okay.

What makes this situation worse (as presented) is that it sounds more like $600 for a private photo collection, or a web site looking to capitalize on pictures of her in her underwear, and NOT about trying to actually SELL underwear, which IS why catalog style image are viewed as legit.

Oct 27 12 07:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


Patchouli Nyx wrote:

MoRina wrote:
Catalogs use agency models.

Websites selling pictures/video of underage girls in their underwear is child porn.

It might not be porn but I'd consider it a fly trap "to catch a predator."

My guess is that there's a high percentage of ephebophiles paying to lookie look on that site.

No doubt!  I was working for a business that provided billing to websites and I have spoken and written to Jimmy back then.  He is an asshole!  Arrogant because he won in court ... but I bet he was shitting bricks with all those felony charges.  He has one of the nicest lawyers I've ever spoken with  .. LOL

Oct 27 12 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ms-photo
Posts: 490
Portland, Oregon, US


DougBPhoto wrote:
While networking contacts on this site or on Facebook are called "friends", that does not mean there are literal friendships.

To assume it is creepy as hell makes me wonder why your mind immediately goes to think that models networking is different than photographers networking.

Models can talk to other models about their experiences, and people with more experience tend to have more valuable experience to offer.

In her case, being 16, wouldn't a 35 y/o model have more experience to share with her than a 17 y/o, especially in terms of what she should watch out for.

This is a networking site, so what I find creepy is to assume that there is something inappropriate about networking.

What is creepy is the information about the offer she discussed in the OP, beyond that, you might not want to jump to conclusions about using the "friends" feature on this site is an indication of creepy intentions.

Because, there are too many male models that think this is a dating site, hitting up female models they want to shoot with as an excuse to meet them.  Is there really any doubt about what's on their mind?  Many female models state "this is not a dating site" in their profiles and do not even accept friend requests from any male models.

I'm sorry but a 50 year old amateur male "model" is not going to have any kind of valuable insight into the modeling industry to give her. 

I also think that as a minor, she should have a parent oversee every interaction she has on this site with potential photographers or in fact anyone.  It would be more clear to her parents that this underwear guy (or others) are up to no good.

Oct 27 12 07:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
J Jessica
Posts: 2,253
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, US


DougBPhoto wrote:

Well, that is not entirely true.

If the OP was saying... I have an offer to shoot this for Macy's or for a Fred Meyer or JC Penney catalog, I'm sure the response would be somewhat different.

Now, one thing about that scenario, that also applies to this scenario is that ALL those scenarios would produce an outcome the OP should consider...   

IS she (and are her parents) okay with pictures of her in underwear being posted, even on a commercial web site, or being printed in newspaper ads for her friends, teachers, and friends of her parents to look at (as well as the unscrupulous of our society to look at), as even in the "best" of cases, there are still things that could be viewed as negatives.

What makes this situation worse (as presented) is that it sounds more like $600 for a private photo collection, or a web site looking to capitalize on pictures of her in her underwear, and NOT about trying to actually SELL underwear, which IS why catalog style image are viewed as legit.

Okey-dokey

Oct 27 12 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


UltimateAppeal wrote:
Tons of court costs, and there is/was another one based out of Texas, photog did jail time.

To the OP, a little money now is not worth your future. Stay fresh and young in life and in photo's. Things you do when you are young can come back to haunt you in the future. Just think of the teachers that get fired because they had lingerie shots of themselves posted online from 10 years ago etc...

Yes, any photographer who dares to step into that gray area is at risk of having to pay the cost.  However, I have not ever heard of bad consequences for a single teen model ... ever!  Many of them become adults and continue modeling.

Oct 27 12 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
hygvhgvkhy
Posts: 2,092
Chicago, Illinois, US


MoRina wrote:

Sure, but what I said was in the context of this thread, though, so I was referring to underage girls.  I don't believe there is a large legitimate freelance market for girls under 18.

There is none. Case closed. Haha(: I made $60 modeling and with gas, it wouldn't have been much.

I can't model without pushing limits anymore and I have no ride.

So the logical thing to do is plan shoots and inspiration for when I am 18 and can shoot freely(-:

Oct 27 12 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


J Jessica  wrote:
Everyone's view on underage underwear modeling is "stay away!".
smile

I don't believe that a photographer willing to pay an inexperienced model $600 is legitimate, so I follow the same view.

I think that the photographer has the most to lose, don't you?

Oct 27 12 07:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,744
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Art of the nude wrote:

It IS limited.  Just like someone who only drives new BMW's and Cadillacs has no knowledge of the issues encountered by those who buy $2,000 cars, working only with the likes of Macys is a limited perspective on the world.

Sorry I couldn't find a larger fashion retailer in the US, but now that you mention it the second previous largest, May department stores, only used agency models.  Regardless the OP is not being approached by a legit catalog company, she is best to walk away from it...

Oct 27 12 07:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Oscar Partida
Posts: 731
San Diego, California, US


AJScalzitti wrote:

+1 somehow I don't think it's JC Penny calling

smile

Oct 27 12 07:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


Presley ONeil wrote:

I remember you.

If you are absolutely. 100%. For sure certain you're comfortable being in your bra&underwear around a perfect stranger, then yes, technically images like the ones in PINK &target ads are legal. (And I'm assuming that's what you've posted I haven't checked yet)

But remember that flaking on this shoot, would only hurt you in the future. So please only agree to it if you know you're okay with it. Don't wake up the morning of realizing you don't want to be in a room with your mom and a grown man half naked posing for pictures.

A perfect stranger?  I never ever photogragh strangers!  yikes

Yes, her comfort level with the photographer is very important.  smile

Oct 27 12 07:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jim Cookfair
Posts: 245
Buffalo, New York, US


you'll have plenty of time to do crazy fun stuff with your modeling later in your life if you want... what's the rush?  take your time and develop your port slowly with the right photographers, keep it all age-appropriate and good things will happen for you I'm sure.
Oct 27 12 07:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,864
Olivet, Michigan, US


Art of the nude wrote:
It IS limited.  Just like someone who only drives new BMW's and Cadillacs has no knowledge of the issues encountered by those who buy $2,000 cars, working only with the likes of Macys is a limited perspective on the world.
AJScalzitti wrote:
Sorry I couldn't find a larger fashion retailer in the US, but now that you mention it the second previous largest, May department stores, only used agency models.  Regardless the OP is not being approached by a legit catalog company, she is best to walk away from it...

As I tried to make clear, there are legit shoots with small retailers and designers. 

But, we agree about the main point, if it's not a legit client, which seems to be the case, then she should say no.  If it is, she STILL should consider saying no.

Oct 27 12 07:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,049
Portland, Oregon, US


ms-photo wrote:
Because, there are too many male models that think this is a dating site, hitting up female models they want to shoot with as an excuse to meet them.  Is there really any doubt about what's on their mind?  Many female models state "this is not a dating site" in their profiles and do not even accept friend requests from any male models.

I'm sorry but a 50 year old amateur male "model" is not going to have any kind of valuable insight into the modeling industry to give her. 

I also think that as a minor, she should have a parent oversee every interaction she has on this site with potential photographers or in fact anyone.  It would be more clear to her parents that this underwear guy (or others) are up to no good.

I think we should leave it up to her and her parents to determine what networking and interactions they feel suits their needs.

The question was about the offer she was given, not an unsolicited critique of who is on her friends list, nor your perception of the legitimacy of the people on her friends list.

Returning us to the topic of the thread, it seems pretty clear the scenario listed in the OP does not pass the smell test, and sounds like a shoot that should not be shot.

There are cases where such shooting might be legitimate/reasonable, this does not sound like one of those times.

Oct 27 12 07:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dgold
Posts: 10,273
North Smithfield, Rhode Island, US


Wynne Turner wrote:
I'm 16, turning 17 in about two months.
I know this is legal.

make a website dedicated to it. He said the pay would probably be $600 per shoot, and he would pay for the makeup, spray tans to look good, and all the underwear I don't already have that we would pick out/agree on shooting.

How does this sound? What is your view on this?

...if it sounds too good, it probably is not too good.
You are only 14 months from making your own legal decisions, so till then I would sit it out of this internet site offer/deal.
Just my $2

Oct 27 12 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
curious D
Posts: 7
Owensboro, Kentucky, US


I say run away fast, something is not right with the situation. He wants to put them on a website? why? Sounds like he is trying to provide photos of young girls in underwear to pedophiles, but that is my opinion.
Oct 27 12 08:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ARA Photo
Posts: 487
Mountain View, California, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

Not exactly true!  It's not illegal for a website that has teenaged models posing in underwear, bikini's etc, as long as it does not cross the line into what is considered pornography.  A perfect example is this website www.trueteenbabes.com which has put the owner through the fire of court and expenses ... but he was aquitted of all charges and continnues to run his site.  Being that it IS NOT a porn site, I believe it's alright for me to post the link as an example.

OMG!! My life was better before I knew this existed. Who lets their daughter do this?? FFS!

Oct 27 12 08:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L Bass
Posts: 957
Nacogdoches, Texas, US


Isis22 wrote:
You don't seem to be seeing what the rest of us are.

She wouldn't.... she's 16.

Oct 27 12 08:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rose Winters
Posts: 57
San Diego, California, US


L Bass wrote:

She wouldn't.... she's 16.

I do, thank you very much. I understand all of your points. Who said I was going to agree to this? Nobody.

Yeah, I'm 16. Someone's a bit closed-minded.

Oct 27 12 08:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
hygvhgvkhy
Posts: 2,092
Chicago, Illinois, US


Wynne Turner wrote:

I do, thank you very much. I understand all of your points. Who said I was going to agree to this? Nobody.

Yeah, I'm 16. Someone's a bit closed-minded.

Welcome to the forums. People are mean and will judge you based on nothing.

Don't pay attention to them. Anyone you don't wanna hear you can easily skip past.

Oct 27 12 09:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cosplay Creatives
Posts: 10,714
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica


Presley ONeil wrote:
Welcome to the forums. People are mean and will judge you based on nothing.

Don't pay attention to them. Anyone you don't wanna hear you can easily skip past.

What?  You want to drown me out? O_x

それはばっか。

Oct 27 12 09:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


ARA Photo wrote:
OMG!! My life was better before I knew this existed. Who lets their daughter do this?? FFS!

+1
Had the same reaction but was waiting for a photographer to voice it.

Oct 27 12 09:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


ARA Photo wrote:
OMG!! My life was better before I knew this existed. Who lets their daughter do this?? FFS!

What is so horrible about it?  The images are very typical of the same images that myself and other photographers have been shooting for decades of teens for model zed cards or advertising.  The ONLY difference is that now those images are being uploaded to a website and whomever it is that would find it worth while can pay to subscribe to the website.  It's not porn, BUT if it were, there'd be a database for easy pickings for the FBI to use.

Oct 27 12 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPV Photo
Posts: 769
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Presley ONeil wrote:
I remember you.

Me too. Last time it was body paint. Seems like a lot of the same issues have come up again.

Oct 27 12 09:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


I wonder how many of the models in the teen/young-adult lingerie sections are actually under 18? The actual age doesn't seem to really matter if they still come across as the advertised demographic.

And in regards to shooting someone underage in underwear... unless you're actually working for the clothing line or the department stores etc it probably wouldn't be the best idea to shoot them as such.
Oct 27 12 09:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Zahra
Posts: 1,097
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I don't shoot any models under 21.  Period.

Why would you want to at your age?  And why does the photog?!
Oct 27 12 09:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


Eden Macieira wrote:

+1
Had the same reaction but was waiting for a photographer to voice it.

I have met and known parents who put their girls in beauty pageants.  From what I have seen, I would not put my daughter in one of those.  I'm not the only one who thinks that is sick and disgusting to do to a child.  However my opinion gets drowned out by the moms of the "Honey Boo Boo's!"

I've worked with a lot of parents of talented children in the music and modeling business for many years.   I am confident that I am able to photograph a teenager in a swimsuit without it causing an uproar ... but then that is only my opinion.  It seems everyone's opinion on this can vary.  If it were my daughter wanting to pose for website like TrueTeenBabe or OneModelPlace.com which is another site you will find hundreds of teens in swim wear and even lingerie, I would let her.  The money is good and the only person at risk is the photographer. 

We all know that a photographer photographing teenagers in swim wear or underwear .. or even nude is taking a certain amount of risk depending on the intent, however, NO ONE has discussed what risk a minor aged model takes!  Yes, I know what the worst thing that could happen to a photographer .. but what is the worst thing that can happen to a minor aged model?   Let's hear it?

Oct 27 12 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,049
Portland, Oregon, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

What is so horrible about it?  The images are very typical of the same images that myself and other photographers have been shooting for decades of teens for model zed cards or advertising.  The ONLY difference is that now those images are being uploaded to a website and whomever it is that would find it worth while can pay to subscribe to the website.  It's not porn, BUT if it were, there'd be a database for easy pickings for the FBI to use.

If you're shooting those photos for advertising or model zed cards, that is a very reasonable, legitimate, and accepted thing to do, and most reasonable and prudent people would not question your intent.

Now, if you do the same exact shots but sell them to a web site whose purpose is catering to adults who become sexually aroused by looking at underage women in their underwear, that IS VERY different, even if the photos are identical.

Sure, it may make things easier for the FBI, but if the idea of GWC's creating spank banks of images of women who are over 18 is creepy, then how is it not even creepier when people are shooting images of girls under 18 for the same purpose.

What's so horrible about it?

If you don't see anything wrong with producing spank bank content for those who get off on under-18, then trying to explain to you what is so horrible about it would probably be an exercise in futility.

Oct 27 12 09:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtisticPhotography
Posts: 7,699
Buffalo, New York, US


You have to look at the intent. Child pornography is NOT showing your private parts. Child pornography is photographing a child in a sexually implicit manner. You can have your cloths on and still have it being child pornography and you can have your cloths off and have it not be. It is somewhat the style and a lot of it is the intent.

Shooting the same photo for Macy's and Teenagebimboswithbigboobs.com may have very different outcomes. Likewise, if he shot you in a full parka for a girls-in-parkas fetish site, it would be illegal. Granted, it would be impossible to convict for that but it still would be against the law.

It is also NOT illegal to shoot people under 18. There are thousands of photographers in the US who do it every day. I've shot hundreds of them, myself, but I don't shoot them in a sexual manner.

If you don't believe me, click this link. It is full frontal nudity of a young girl. It is also NOT child pornography. I am not marking it 18+ because it is not an 18+ image.
http://roberttracyphdart160fall2011.fil … dams-2.jpg
The photographer won a Pulitzer prize, not for this particular photo but for one of that era.

Here's a final example/paradox for you if you think that any image of a teenage girl with her boobs hanging out is child-porn. Picture that a girl was walking topless down a street in New York. The image is captured by a security camera. Is there any illegal activity there? No. In New York a female can legally walk around topless. The camera captures it, but there is no sexual intent. There's nothing illegal here.

Don't worry about the illegality of it. You're not the one going to go to jail. Even if it's legal, wonder if you really want to do it. Instead, worry about what you parents will think. Worry about what will happen when the kids in school find out about it. Worry about what will happen when you apply for jobs. Worry about how the picture will come back to haunt you.  Worry about your future. Worry about his intentions.  Wonder if you will be able to point out the picture to someone and proudly say, "This is me!"  If it's in Macy's ad, you're fine. If its on someone semi-porn site, then worry.

My suggestion is simply, down worry if it's legal and don't do something just because it's legal. Do the right thing. At your age, that's probably keeping your cloths on and being conservative.
Oct 27 12 09:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,049
Portland, Oregon, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
We all know that a photographer photographing teenagers in swim wear or underwear .. or even nude is taking a certain amount of risk depending on the intent, however, NO ONE has discussed what risk a minor aged model takes!  Yes, I know what the worst thing that could happen to a photographer .. but what is the worst thing that can happen to a minor aged model?   Let's hear it?

I believe I mentioned a few of those things on this very page...

not that anyone cares

Oct 27 12 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,596
Salinas, California, US


Presley ONeil wrote:

Welcome to the forums. People are mean and will judge you based on nothing.

Don't pay attention to them. Anyone you don't wanna hear you can easily skip past.

Photographing teens as a subject in the forums here can get as heated as political discussions in the Soap Box!  lol

Oct 27 12 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
hygvhgvkhy
Posts: 2,092
Chicago, Illinois, US


Gryph wrote:

What?  You want to drown me out? O_x

それはばっか。

Nooo of course not I lovez you❤
^.^

Oct 27 12 09:50 pm  Link  Quote 
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