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Photographer
Marty McBride
Posts: 3,132
Owensboro, Kentucky, US


I realize I may be asking too early, but I'm in the mood to try something new. Now that 8 is officially out, has anyone tried this on a desktop, not utilizing the touch features, and if so, how does it enhance or complicate your workflow as a photographer?
Oct 29 12 08:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 9,075
Brooklyn, New York, US


Im using the consumer preiview  on a test rig now
I ran CS5 as a test and seems to work ok
Will install Light room next
AT some point I will run it with my main PS rig to test compatibility with the hardware
The new UI is a disaster but I could work around it if I had to
The question is why would I want to ?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411450,00.asp
Oct 29 12 09:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,740
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Marty McBride wrote:
I realize I may be asking too early, but I'm in the mood to try something new. Now that 8 is officially out, has anyone tried this on a desktop, not utilizing the touch features, and if so, how does it enhance or complicate your workflow as a photographer?

ya...little to no speed/efficiency improvement.

Video drivers for me nVidia and AMD cards are good though.

Seems to manage memory a bit differently but I don't see a huge net effect. Stick with Windows 7 for awhile longer IMO.

Oct 29 12 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,837
Delphos, Ohio, US


Illuminate wrote:
Stick with Windows 7 for awhile longer IMO.

This is sage advice. Let Windows 8 shake out/down for awhile. Why be a beta tester for a new user interface if you absolutely don't have to? big_smile

Photographers are still chained to a desktop computer... Windows 8 is optimized for mobile computing.

Oct 29 12 09:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


If you're using Win8, 8 pro or 8 enterprise (ie: not RT), you're most likely just going to use the desktop environment for those apps.

Basically you are not 'forced' to use the modern UI 100% of the time, but it's a intragal part of the OS and the 'desktop' is treated as another app. So you can continue to use it similar to windows 7, you just wouldn't have a start button as such if you didn't make a shortcut on your desktop, a few extra steps are required to open an app.

I'm using Win8 pro on my HP laptop since I'm not sure how long the $40 upgrade price will be (to upgrade from XP and up). The only compatibility issue I had was with a game or two.

For everyday stuff, it's kind of nice if all your apps are made for the Modern UI.
Oct 29 12 09:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


William Kious wrote:
Photographers are still chained to a desktop computer... Windows 8 is optimized for mobile computing.

Yea the modern UI is most definitely designed for touch interface, mobile or not. It's still usable in a non-touch interface but you wouldn't get the most out of it. Like using OSX Lion without a magic mouse, or multi-gesture touch pad.

Some apps perform better on the modern UI than the webbrowser/desktop alternative. For example netflix, hulu + etc.

Oct 29 12 09:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,837
Delphos, Ohio, US


Karl Blessing wrote:
If you're using Win8, 8 pro or 8 enterprise (ie: not RT), you're most likely just going to use the desktop environment for those apps.

Basically you are not 'forced' to use the modern UI 100% of the time, but it's a intragal part of the OS and the 'desktop' is treated as another app. So you can continue to use it similar to windows 7, you just wouldn't have a start button as such if you didn't make a shortcut on your desktop, a few extra steps are required to open an app.

I'm using Win8 pro on my HP laptop since I'm not sure how long the $40 upgrade price will be (to upgrade from XP and up). The only compatibility issue I had was with a game or two.

For everyday stuff, it's kind of nice if all your apps are made for the Modern UI.

The way you describe it... in a really odd, forking twisted way, it reminds me of 'ye olde Program Manager. Isn't that, basically, what it kinda is? A huge evolutionary step backwards?

*thinking out loud, by the way*

Oct 29 12 09:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brooklyn Bridge Images
Posts: 9,075
Brooklyn, New York, US


William Kious wrote:

The way you describe it... in a really odd, forking twisted way, it reminds me of 'ye olde Program Manager. Isn't that, basically, what it kinda is? A huge evolutionary step backwards?

*thinking out loud, by the way*

Read the link I posted
backwards step is putting it mildly

Oct 29 12 09:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


William Kious wrote:
The way you describe it... in a really odd, forking twisted way, it reminds me of 'ye olde Program Manager. Isn't that, basically, what it kinda is? A huge evolutionary step backwards?

*thinking out loud, by the way*

yea basically it's like they're saying we want you to only use the modern UI... but we still provide the desktop interface because we know you'll kill us if you can't use your old apps.

That's one of the main annoyance, you could have 20 apps open on the desktop, but if you alt-tab between apps you'll only see selection of modern UI apps and desktop (meaning desktop is treated as one single thumbnail, the work around is windows+tab while in desktop).

This is a screenshot of my Windows 8 home screen.
http://i.xlu.be/Win8Home.png

Can shrink/enlarge, move around the blocks, turn off the 'live update' on some, etc. But you'll notice the desktop is mainly just a single block there.

Also if you're on a desktop environment without touch, it'll pay to learn the keyboard shortcuts.

The only real benefit with Windows 8 is if everything was made for the Modern UI, but it's still not as quick as just managing tasks in Windows 7.

Oct 29 12 09:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


PS: I only upgraded my HP laptop because most of the modern UI apps do perform nicely on my underpowered laptop, but it's also not my primary work machine. My 2008 macbook is my primary machine I use to the left of the HP laptop (they sit next to each other, with the macbook to a external monitor, and I use free synergy software to use my keyboard/mouse to control both at the same time like a spanned desktop).
Oct 29 12 09:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,957
Costa Mesa, California, US


And how many people have touch screen computers..NOT iPads and the likes but desktop power houses? I looked at Win8 since I only have Home premium Win 7 and had no idea it didn't support the 32 Gigs of RAM I just bought. Pro is $80 to UG to and IT supports that much RAM and more. But 8 supports it too and pro 8 is only $40..I think that offer is good through the year. But I have to reinstall my Adobe Master collection (the compatibility tester from Win says it won't work if just upgraded). My BU program has to be upgraded for $$ as well as my version of Office XP. I need a new DVD player (no biggie) and I have to be careful to un authorize all devices from iTunes before I install the UG. Adobe media player and Flash in general is not supported and some of my Adobe programs use it for notes and the likes. I need a new driver for my Epson 3800 but Epson claims the old driver works. Suddenly the $80 price tag for the Win7 Pro UG sounds like a bargain.
Oct 29 12 09:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


PS: they should have kept the start button on the desktop interface for people who still work mostly in desktop apps.

Biggest issue I found with the modern UI internet explorer... no flash or HTML5 support for sites not on their compatibility list.

Oddly this includes mostly sites owned by Google, youtube won't run on the modern UI, you're instead forced to press a lil button to 'open in desktop mode'.

Another annoyance that comes to mind:

Remember Minesweeper and Solitaire? Two games that's been with Windows since 3.1 if not before.

If you run either (they're not preinstalled you get them free from the microsoft store), you get some ads sometimes.

I started up minesweeper, I was presented with a 30 second Cadillac ad.

when I went to play the daily challenge for Solitaire, I received a full minute movie trailer.

Every time it would say at the bottom "Thanks to our sponsors this game is free". Seems to show any ads that require online access such as the daily challenge, etc.

EDIT: also the classic minesweeper/solitaire app gets removed in the upgrade to 8.
Oct 29 12 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


R Michael Walker wrote:
...But I have to reinstall my Adobe Master collection (the compatibility tester from Win says it won't work if just upgraded).
...

Oddly I was not told that for CS3. Yet you'd expect an older copy to be incompatible. The only app it really warned me about was the Win7 Microsoft Defender and some virtual CD driver.

Oct 29 12 09:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,957
Costa Mesa, California, US


Karl Blessing wrote:
Oddly I was not told that for CS3. Yet you'd expect an older copy to be incompatible. The only app it really warned me about was the Win7 Microsoft Defender and some virtual CD driver.

Probably the older one is working in some comp ability mode??? My old machine got a better score for upgrading than my newer workhorse..go figure. Office XP also still works on Win7 but they say it won't run on Win8. Maybe that's a lie to sell upgrades??? To much risk involved for my work machine..maybe 'll put it on the non graphics machine later as a test..it would be nice if this would drive the price of touch screen monitors down soon. Then my older PC could be like an iPad with balls. LOL!

Oct 29 12 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,837
Delphos, Ohio, US


Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:

Read the link I posted
backwards step is putting it mildly

Yeah... a lot of what I suspected. I'll be keeping Windows 7 until I'm forced to upgrade (kind of like I did with XP Pro.)

Oct 29 12 09:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,837
Delphos, Ohio, US


Karl Blessing wrote:

yea basically it's like they're saying we want you to only use the modern UI... but we still provide the desktop interface because we know you'll kill us if you can't use your old apps.

That's one of the main annoyance, you could have 20 apps open on the desktop, but if you alt-tab between apps you'll only see selection of modern UI apps and desktop (meaning desktop is treated as one single thumbnail, the work around is windows+tab while in desktop).

This is a screenshot of my Windows 8 home screen.
http://i.xlu.be/Win8Home.png

Can shrink/enlarge, move around the blocks, turn off the 'live update' on some, etc. But you'll notice the desktop is mainly just a single block there.

Also if you're on a desktop environment without touch, it'll pay to learn the keyboard shortcuts.

The only real benefit with Windows 8 is if everything was made for the Modern UI, but it's still not as quick as just managing tasks in Windows 7.

So, the desktop has become, in a sense, a "virtual machine" running within the Windows 8 GUI? No thanks.

Oct 29 12 09:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


R Michael Walker wrote:
Probably the older one is working in some comp ability mode???

Nope, no compatibility mode, and I even double checked the app's property, opening normally. Newer suites may be more 'intertwined' with the OS.

R Michael Walker wrote:
My old machine got a better score for upgrading than my newer workhorse..go figure. Office XP also still works on Win7 but they say it won't run on Win8. Maybe that's a lie to sell upgrades??? To much risk involved for my work machine..maybe 'll put it on the non graphics machine later as a test..it would be nice if this would drive the price of touch screen monitors down soon. Then my older PC could be like an iPad with balls. LOL!

Office 2010 (word, excel, etc) works fine for me on Win8.

Oct 29 12 09:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


William Kious wrote:
So, the desktop has become, in a sense, a "virtual machine" running within the Windows 8 GUI? No thanks.

Not a virtual machine at all, just a separated UI. It's easier to think of the Modern UI as an app full-screened on top of the desktop environment.

(Virtual Machine implies that it's a completely isolated instance of windows, which in a way would actually be better than the current implementation since it would behave exactly like Win7 in that case).

Oct 29 12 09:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RacerXPhoto
Posts: 2,460
Brooklyn, New York, US


R Michael Walker wrote:

I made the same screw up not realizing that Win7 Home had 16GB limit
Hopefully when I,m ready to upgrade I can find Win 7 Pro or the UG for a decent price
Im hating the idea of having to deal with 8 on my PS performance rig

Oct 29 12 09:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


RacerXPhoto wrote:
I made the same screw up not realizing that Win7 Home had 16GB limit
Hopefully when I,m ready to upgrade I can find Win 7 Pro or the UG for a decent price
Im hating the idea of having to deal with 8 on my PS performance rig

Well if not for the annoyances of Win8, it'd be a good upgrade for under-the-hood stuff, since the only version you can buy right now is Pro. And the $40 upgrade is valid for all versions of Windows from XP up, regardless if you had 'home', 'home premium' etc.

Personally I'd give it about a month or two to see reviews and any kinks before actually putting it on your primary/main machine. The $40 upgrade pricing is good thru January (14.99 if you purchased a computer with win 7 after June 2012).

Oct 29 12 09:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RacerXPhoto
Posts: 2,460
Brooklyn, New York, US


William Kious wrote:

Yeah... a lot of what I suspected. I'll be keeping Windows 7 until I'm forced to upgrade (kind of like I did with XP Pro.)

More
UI expert: Windows users will hate the new Windows 8 experience
http://news.yahoo.com/ui-expert-windows … 56586.html

MS may have a bigger flop on their hands than they did with Vista

Oct 29 12 09:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,837
Delphos, Ohio, US


Karl Blessing wrote:

Not a virtual machine at all, just a separated UI. It's easier to think of the Modern UI as an app full-screened on top of the desktop environment.

(Virtual Machine implies that it's a completely isolated instance of windows, which in a way would actually be better than the current implementation since it would behave exactly like Win7 in that case).

Wouldn't a "dual boot" scenario have been better? Give us a little icon to click that would switch between the two environments...

Oct 29 12 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,837
Delphos, Ohio, US


RacerXPhoto wrote:
MS may have a bigger flop on their hands than they did with Vista

Vista just plain sucked balls all the way around. It seems that, if you're a casual user with a tablet or other "smart" device, it may be just peachy. Vista didn't have any peaches. None.

Oct 29 12 09:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


William Kious wrote:
Wouldn't a "dual boot" scenario have been better? Give us a little icon to click that would switch between the two environments...

Performance would be crippled in such a way, especially since in such a setup you'd be splitting your harddrive's storage to either system, and wouldn't have the integration to the host OS (there's quite a bit of integration to the modern UI even in the desktop mode).

Overall I think microsoft wants you to ditch the desktop environment (though I wonder how in the hell they plan to sell windows 8 to corporate environments... surely they don't expect windows 8 enterprise to use the same UI for a corporation).

Oct 29 12 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RacerXPhoto
Posts: 2,460
Brooklyn, New York, US


Karl Blessing wrote:

Well if not for the annoyances of Win8, it'd be a good upgrade for under-the-hood stuff, since the only version you can buy right now is Pro. And the $40 upgrade is valid for all versions of Windows from XP up, regardless if you had 'home', 'home premium' etc.

Personally I'd give it about a month or two to see reviews and any kinks before actually putting it on your primary/main machine. The $40 upgrade pricing is good thru January (14.99 if you purchased a computer with win 7 after June 2012).

I build computers so I will just swap in a HD on my new PS box to see how the hardware works
When Im done I will put back in my reg SSD drive with Win 7 install
Mr Walker did bring up more good points I wonder if my Canon Pro9000 printer will work under 8
I doubt Canon will come out with drivers for it

Oct 29 12 09:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gulag
Posts: 1,219
Duluth, Georgia, US


Why should I waste my precious time to learn another UI? I avoided Apple for the same reason.
Oct 29 12 09:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


RacerXPhoto wrote:
I build computers so I will just swap in a HD on my new PS box to see how the hardware works
When Im done I will put back in my reg SSD drive with Win 7 install
Mr Walker did bring up more good points I wonder if my Canon Pro9000 printer will work under 8
I doubt Canon will come out with drivers for it

From what I read, if the drivers were Windows 7 compatible, they should be Win8 compatible, different story if you're upgrading from Vista or XP.

Oct 29 12 09:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Blessing
Posts: 30,853
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


mshi wrote:
Why should I waste my precious time to learn another UI? I avoided Apple for the same reason.

tongue least apple kept the same UI to a degree since 2000 tongue (I wonder if more people will move to OSX after Win8 becomes the only OS avail on new machines)

And OSX is far more functional than Win8 right now.

Oct 29 12 09:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RacerXPhoto
Posts: 2,460
Brooklyn, New York, US


mshi wrote:
Why should I waste my precious time to learn another UI? I avoided Apple for the same reason.

I dont mind learning new methods if it has some advantages
I started using Linux this year and it took me a bit of work to find my way but I can see the UI has some real helpful features.
I think the Win 8 metro interface is crap in comparison and I haven't seen any bonus of using it yet

Oct 29 12 09:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R_Marquez
Posts: 4,608
San Francisco, California, US


It's definitely squeezes a little more performance out of processors. It'll make a bigger difference if you run newer AMD processors, but Intel processors down to the Core 2 will see some improvements.

Everything is a little snappier, but I understand that it's difficult for a lot of people to get over the interface. I just simply click over to regular desktop for a lot of thing.

It doesn't do anything to enhance my workflow.
Oct 29 12 10:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,957
Costa Mesa, California, US


RacerXPhoto wrote:

I made the same screw up not realizing that Win7 Home had 16GB limit
Hopefully when I,m ready to upgrade I can find Win 7 Pro or the UG for a decent price
Im hating the idea of having to deal with 8 on my PS performance rig

I just made my MisQ Friday and REALLY want to get all that RAM workign..it says 32GIG (16 usable)...more Microsoft greed at play. And RAM capacity is not even listed when you check out the features comparison they post in the "anytime UG" window. I checked to make sure my MB could support it but ASSUMED my 64BIT OS could..and you know what they say about assuming. LOL!

Oct 29 12 10:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marty McBride
Posts: 3,132
Owensboro, Kentucky, US


I first saw it tonight on an Asus Tablet at Best Buy. I will say in that regard it performed very well. Its touch response was the most sensitive I have ever encountered on any tablet. When I tried it on a desktop without touchscreen, there was a side screen toolbar I noticed I could no longer access with a mouse, touch only on the pc next to it. Are there many other limitations like this if you plan to use it as a common desktop? I have no desire to ever smear up my editing screen. Perhaps a dual monitor setup with touchscreen on a separate panel?
Oct 29 12 10:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,957
Costa Mesa, California, US


William Kious wrote:

Vista just plain sucked balls all the way around. It seems that, if you're a casual user with a tablet or other "smart" device, it may be just peachy. Vista didn't have any peaches. None.

Sure it did..the New Adobe products required it. And 64bit was easier to come by then too. Of course I bought new machines with Vista installed and had zero problems..I didn't UG to it.

Oct 29 12 10:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gulag
Posts: 1,219
Duluth, Georgia, US


Karl Blessing wrote:
tongue least apple kept the same UI to a degree since 2000 tongue (I wonder if more people will move to OSX after Win8 becomes the only OS avail on new machines)

And OSX is far more functional than Win8 right now.

My problem is that I always try to avoid anything that's not Korsher after having witnessed how Foxconn's mobilized for them.

Oct 29 12 10:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marty McBride
Posts: 3,132
Owensboro, Kentucky, US


Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Im using the consumer preiview  on a test rig now
I ran CS5 as a test and seems to work ok
Will install Light room next
AT some point I will run it with my main PS rig to test compatibility with the hardware
The new UI is a disaster but I could work around it if I had to
The question is why would I want to ?
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411450,00.asp

To me, the new interface seems pretty entertaining. With one click, your to a desktop that's pretty familiar with old. I am put off that they didn't make the touchscreen version and normal desktop version more compatible. If you scan stick your finger somewhere and get a response, you should be able to do the same with a mouse. That doesn't read so well! lol anyways....My personal preference is a matte screen and no fingers anywhere near it. Hopefully a service pack will address this eventually!

Oct 30 12 06:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,150
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


RacerXPhoto wrote:

More
UI expert: Windows users will hate the new Windows 8 experience
http://news.yahoo.com/ui-expert-windows … 56586.html

MS may have a bigger flop on their hands than they did with Vista

Kind of like Startreck movies. Only the odd numbers were worth watching.

Oct 30 12 02:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ChanStudio
Posts: 9,158
Alpharetta, Georgia, US


Windows 8 feels backward to me..
Oct 30 12 02:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JAE
Posts: 2,078
West Chester, Pennsylvania, US


It doesn't enhance or detract from my workflow. Took a little getting used to, but I like it. Only cost $15 and it's slightly faster then Win7, so I will take it.
Oct 30 12 03:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fusion Imagery
Posts: 518
Centerville, Ohio, US


For me there's been a noticeable performance improvement and it didn't long to get used to the start screen as opposed to having a start menu. Now that I've used it a bit I think I prefer it.
Oct 30 12 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
London Fog
Posts: 6,585
London, England, United Kingdom


Win7 is rock solid, and after the Vista debacle I'm not looking to change anytime soon! Plus, why have they even released this, just 3 years after 7? Makes no sense!
Oct 30 12 03:56 pm  Link  Quote 
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