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Makeup Artist
BKellerman MUA
Posts: 129
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


as far as showing off my makeup, how much retouching should be done on photos? i have images in my port that are completely untouched and then i have my seasons, which are retouched-alot are saying too much. what if the model has a lot of little bumps on her forehead or something?...but where do you draw the line with the retouching? input please smile
Oct 30 12 11:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,112
Orlando, Florida, US


If the model has blemishes or irregularities that affect how your makeup looks, then it affects how your makeup looks.

Look at it this way.  For makeup artists, I retouch to the point that "this is how it would look on a perfect canvas".

I do not alter how the actual makeup looks on the face though.  A model with terrible skin is a poor choice for you to use as a showcase for your skills.  A model with a blemish here or there is just human.
Oct 30 12 11:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,442
Paris, Île-de-France, France


It has to be goal oriented.  Less retouch is usually better but it requires more skill in both MU and lighting of course on good skin.

Always think of pictures of their timeless values. In 30 years which will you respect and still like>
Oct 30 12 11:33 am  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
BKellerman MUA
Posts: 129
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


im being honest here, 1 of my pics had to have some blending (not much) on the forehead, and the other one had alot of shine on her forehead so that was done too...but as far as the eye and lip makeup, there is no retouching, yes the faces on my four seasons were smoothed out, but these are young girls and this was free, and these are the girls that responded, so some of them still have those little bumps...my autumn girl had those little bumps all over the forehead...i couldnt just leave them there...not using that as an excuse but just not sure how much is too much on the skin. like in this one
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pi … 9#30388589
is that too much smoothing on her skin? the makeup on the eyes has not been touched.
Oct 30 12 12:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
ImageBeautique
Posts: 169
London, England, United Kingdom


Good Egg Productions wrote:
If the model has blemishes or irregularities that affect how your makeup looks, then it affects how your makeup looks.

Look at it this way.  For makeup artists, I retouch to the point that "this is how it would look on a perfect canvas".

I do not alter how the actual makeup looks on the face though.  A model with terrible skin is a poor choice for you to use as a showcase for your skills.  A model with a blemish here or there is just human.

This!!

Oct 30 12 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,112
Orlando, Florida, US


BKellerman MUA wrote:
im being honest here, 1 of my pics had to have some blending (not much) on the forehead, and the other one had alot of shine on her forehead so that was done too...but as far as the eye and lip makeup, there is no retouching, yes the faces on my four seasons were smoothed out, but these are young girls and this was free, and these are the girls that responded, so some of them still have those little bumps...my autumn girl had those little bumps all over the forehead...i couldnt just leave them there...not using that as an excuse but just not sure how much is too much on the skin. like in this one
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pi … 9#30388589
is that too much smoothing on her skin? the makeup on the eyes has not been touched.

In my opinion?  Yes.  Way too much.

If I was looking to hire a makeup artist, I want to see YOUR work.  Not the retoucher's.  Hell, I'm good enough at photoshop to add my own makeup to a face if I really wanted.  I'm hiring you to do it in reality so I don't have to spend 8 hours doing it in the computer.

If there is a problem with the models' faces that you're putting makeup on, that's on YOU for selecting them.  And if you can't "fix" an oily forehead and you can't apply a base that will address bumps, then maybe you're not good enough with makeup for me to hire you for a less-than-perfect skinned model.

Oct 30 12 12:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
BKellerman MUA
Posts: 129
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
In my opinion?  Yes.  Way too much.

If I was looking to hire a makeup artist, I want to see YOUR work.  Not the retoucher's.  Hell, I'm good enough at photoshop to add my own makeup to a face if I really wanted.  I'm hiring you to do it in reality so I don't have to spend 8 hours doing it in the computer.

If there is a problem with the models' faces that you're putting makeup on, that's on YOU for selecting them.  And if you can't "fix" an oily forehead and you can't apply a base that will address bumps, then maybe you're not good enough with makeup for me to hire you for a less-than-perfect skinned model.

First let me say, no one added any makeup to my models...and these bumps were not just a few here and there...there were alot....yes your right it was on me for picking her, but i was only seeing headshots, not her in person. Again, I will say that I did this for free, and the models did it for free. It was just a starting off point. I have not been doing this for very long. I am pretty new at this as I state in my port. I am still learning. So, taking that into consideration, if you will, I am not looking to be HIRED for pay. I am looking to do makeup in exchange right now, and I am confident enough to do that in what I produce with my makeup skills. I don't need an editing program to fix anything with my makeup. I could and will with a clear conscience, post the images that have little to no photoshop done with no problem. I will be getting the originals soon. I do have images on my port that have not been retouched what so ever. I realize that you were giving constructive criticism, but for you to say that maybe I am not good enough was just not a constructive thing to say. I am just starting out. Please remember that.  Also I take what you said into consideration and I understand where you are coming from. I again, will say, that I am just starting out and i really did not know that it was too much smoothing of the skin, because thats pretty much what was done as far as the skin goes...that is why i am here, to get input...i just took what you said about me not being good enough to harsh and to the heart. I should not have done that. Thank you for your input and I will keep that in mind next time I am doing a shoot.

Oct 30 12 12:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
BKellerman MUA
Posts: 129
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Do any of you have photogs or you photogs yourselves use the portrait professional? just a question? is using that on just the skin areas, no eyes or lips, too much?
Oct 30 12 12:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
LizW_Makeup
Posts: 1,621
Boston, Massachusetts, US


BKellerman MUA wrote:
like in this one
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pi … 9#30388589
is that too much smoothing on her skin? the makeup on the eyes has not been touched.

In this shot, the model's face is unnaturally smooth and uniform in color vs. her shoulders (which are freckled and look more naturally textured) - that contrast detracts from your work because it makes the Photoshop very obvious even to the untrained eye. Ideally, the retouching in a makeup artist's portfolio should be invisible unless it's part of the story (i.e., a very stylized shoot).

The best retouching (for our portfolio purposes) is the kind that removes the distracting elements (raised bumps or divots in the skin, stray hairs, odd shadows) but leaves behind pores, freckles, beauty marks, some undereye lines/contours, soft peach fuzz, etc. and keeps the overall color tones and intensity as true to the original as possible.

It's definitely an art!

Oct 30 12 01:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
BKellerman MUA
Posts: 129
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


LizW_Makeup wrote:

In this shot, the model's face is unnaturally smooth and uniform in color vs. her shoulders (which are freckled and look more naturally textured) - that contrast detracts from your work because it makes the Photoshop very obvious even to the untrained eye. Ideally, the retouching in a makeup artist's portfolio should be invisible unless it's part of the story (i.e., a very stylized shoot).

The best retouching (for our portfolio purposes) is the kind that removes the distracting elements (raised bumps or divots in the skin, stray hairs, odd shadows) but leaves behind pores, freckles, beauty marks, some undereye lines/contours, soft peach fuzz, etc. and keeps the overall color tones and intensity as true to the original as possible.

It's definitely an art!

thank you! this is very constructive...I totally see what you are saying...i have already talked to the photographer and she is going to give me the images that are, like you said above, free of distracting elements, but keeping the color tones and intensity true to original. all the colors in most of my photos are very true to color...the one in this thread especially...nothing was enhanced. these photos were not just for my port though. the photog is using them too so that is why i am getting the originals...thank you again!

Oct 30 12 01:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,112
Orlando, Florida, US


BKellerman MUA wrote:
Do any of you have photogs or you photogs yourselves use the portrait professional? just a question? is using that on just the skin areas, no eyes or lips, too much?

Portrait Professional is a heavy handed retouching program.  It would be the equivalent to using a hammer for every fix-it job.  Even if the job is replacing one of the arms of your reading glasses.  It could possibly do the job, but it will likely damage things in the process.

It often leaves skin looking overly smooth and unnatural.


Look.  You asked a question.  Because you didn't qualify your question specifically enough, I answered it the best way I know how.

Everyone "just starts out" at one point or another.  When I give critiques or advice, I rarely pay any attention to how long they've been doing something or how much instruction they've received.  Honestly, none of that really matters.

You are either skilled, or you are not. I would either consider working with you, or I would not.  Hiring has nothing to do with money, for the record.  I often do trade shoots with new MUAs for images if it would be useful to the both of us.

So, at no point did I intend to critique you specifically or insult you.  I was simply answering a question that you asked.


So here's the advice.

Yes, some of your photos are over processed/retouched.  But that's ok for the conceptual ones.  The ones that are not, are of poor image quality and don't really showcase what you're capable of.

Portrait Professional is, like any program, useful to those who learn and use it well.  It is, however, very easy to go overboard with it and everything becomes a cartoon.

I suggest trying to work with both models with a better canvas to start on, and better photographers who know what you need as far as makeup shots, and a decent retoucher who understands what you need, and more importantly, what you DON'T need in a finished image to really show what you are able to do.

Oct 30 12 02:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
BKellerman MUA
Posts: 129
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:

Portrait Professional is a heavy handed retouching program.  It would be the equivalent to using a hammer for every fix-it job.  Even if the job is replacing one of the arms of your reading glasses.  It could possibly do the job, but it will likely damage things in the process.

It often leaves skin looking overly smooth and unnatural.


Look.  You asked a question.  Because you didn't qualify your question specifically enough, I answered it the best way I know how.

Everyone "just starts out" at one point or another.  When I give critiques or advice, I rarely pay any attention to how long they've been doing something or how much instruction they've received.  Honestly, none of that really matters.

You are either skilled, or you are not. I would either consider working with you, or I would not.  Hiring has nothing to do with money, for the record.  I often do trade shoots with new MUAs for images if it would be useful to the both of us.

So, at no point did I intend to critique you specifically or insult you.  I was simply answering a question that you asked.


So here's the advice.

Yes, some of your photos are over processed/retouched.  But that's ok for the conceptual ones.  The ones that are not, are of poor image quality and don't really showcase what you're capable of.

Portrait Professional is, like any program, useful to those who learn and use it well.  It is, however, very easy to go overboard with it and everything becomes a cartoon.

I suggest trying to work with both models with a better canvas to start on, and better photographers who know what you need as far as makeup shots, and a decent retoucher who understands what you need, and more importantly, what you DON'T need in a finished image to really show what you are able to do.

Thank you, the photog is someone close to me and usually does family, children and weddings so this is a new area of shooting for them too. i am currently in process of beginning to work with a new photog and i think they are more on the level i am trying to achieve. Thank you all for your critiques and I greatly appreciate everyones comments.

Oct 30 12 02:14 pm  Link  Quote 
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