I've been getting significant interest from collectors interested in purchasing photosets of a few of my models, and I am now in the process of building a website to facilitate these sales. Eventually I'll add video as well.
I have a million questions about packaging (what is the optimum number of images per set?), pricing, PayPal, etc. etc.
Does anyone have a site to recommend that accomplishes this mission effectively? I'm thinking of single photographer sites, not the aggregated ones where individual artists get lost in the mix.
Any wisdom from those who've traveled this road already would be greatly appreciated.
Assuming you already have releases from the models to be able to do so; it may be huger than you're looking for, but look at met-art and femjoy (both ate 18+) as those types of sites are going to be the biggest. I've seen sets from MPL go about 56 images or so, and others from met-art go about 120-140. Make sure each pose is slightly different, or people are going to get bored quick. Are you doing clothed, or unclothed?
SPierce Photography wrote: Assuming you already have releases from the models to be able to do so; it may be huger than you're looking for, but look at met-art and femjoy (both ate 18+) as those types of sites are going to be the biggest. I've seen sets from MPL go about 56 images or so, and others from met-art go about 120-140. Make sure each pose is slightly different, or people are going to get bored quick. Are you doing clothed, or unclothed?
Thanks! I was considering either including a mix of nude, implied and bikini/lingerie in each set and adopting uniform pricing…or alternatively, charging a higher price for the sets that include nudity.
Anarchy 999
Posts: 367
Wellington, Wellington, New Zealand
What exactly are you planning on selling? Is it physical prints? Or site membership and access to your site? Is it non-exclusive usage licenses for sets of photos? If so what kind of usage? Or ?
VisualE wrote: What exactly are you planning on selling? Is it physical prints? Or site membership and access to your site? Is it non-exclusive usage licenses for sets of photos? If so what kind of usage? Or ?
Although I do plan to sell prints (autographed by the llamas), that part's fairly cut and dried. Video clips, too.
My admittedly rough plan is to market these sets of digital images to individual collectors. They would not be licensed for posting or sharing or publishing...to be unpretentious about it, I see these simply as individual spank bank restock missions.
I distribute a daily email to a thousand or so free subscribers, and those emails generate interest in specific llamas and a flood of "Can you sell me some more of this girl or that girl?" queries...enough of them to believe I can make a small profit if I properly construct the business llama.
I would really evaluate the amount of interest in this. It seems like there is so much content like this available for free that the chance of it being economically feasible would be slim. I think you would have to have something unique to offer (I haven't looked at your portfolio to see what you have in there).
Blue Ash Film Group wrote: I would really evaluate the amount of interest in this. It seems like there is so much content like this available for free that the chance of it being economically feasible would be slim. I think you would have to have something unique to offer (I haven't looked at your portfolio to see what you have in there).
Yes, the market, both for prints and for online memberships, is a tough one, and it's getting tougher. You also have to be into the sort of stuff MM doesn't like to talk about. It's not pretty down there.
Obviously, dont listen to the doubters. You can and will build this business. Look into clips for sale as an avenue to sell your video clips. Of the clips you have posted, I think they are way to long and get a little boring and predictable after a 5 minute slide show, but thats just 1 opinion. Marketing video is whole other can of worms besides photo sets. I'd suggest trying videos of about 2:00 instead and mix a slide show and live video together to make it flow and keep interest up.
As far as photo sets go, I've sold single girl CDs with 120 pics for $9.99. As girls build up content, I go 2 sets on 1 CD for $12.99, 3 sets for $16.99 and 4 sets (450 pics) for $19.99.
Multiple model CDs with 1 shoot each model (5 models w/80 images each) for $24.99.
Sales are sporadic and often slow but over time but I'm a firm believer that - if you shoot it; they will come. If you add 3-4 2 minute videos to each photo set experiment with bumping the CD price up to $14.99 1 set, $19.99 2 sets, $24.99 3 sets and $29.99 for 4 sets.
Play around with pricing, I mean you dont want to give it away but collectors want value for $9.99 and I've found 120 pics to be the sweet spot if (and its a big if) the model is incredibly hot and the photography is outstanding.
I think the market will top off at $29.99 for a combination CD of amatuer tease/softcore porn (pics and video).
You are really sitting pretty with your email newsletter. Thousands of potential buyer at your finger tips. All you really need to do is put a line at the bottom of each email: "Like this model? For more images of this model and many others, 411P makes available a photo set of 120 high res images for personal use on CD for $9.99. More photo sets are available for some models; see our website for pricing and availability. If video is your thing, please check out the 411p page on clips4sale.com. Fresh videos added ever 2 weeks."
Obviously, dont listen to the doubters. You can and will build this business. Look into clips for sale as an avenue to sell your video clips. Of the clips you have posted, I think they are way to long and get a little boring and predictable after a 5 minute slide show, but thats just 1 opinion. Marketing video is whole other can of worms besides photo sets. I'd suggest trying videos of about 2:00 instead and mix a slide show and live video together to make it flow and keep interest up.
As far as photo sets go, I've sold single girl CDs with 120 pics for $9.99. As girls build up content, I go 2 sets on 1 CD for $12.99, 3 sets for $16.99 and 4 sets (450 pics) for $19.99.
Multiple model CDs with 1 shoot each model (5 models w/80 images each) for $24.99.
Sales are sporadic and often slow but over time but I'm a firm believer that - if you shoot it; they will come. If you add 3-4 2 minute videos to each photo set experiment with bumping the CD price up to $14.99 1 set, $19.99 2 sets, $24.99 3 sets and $29.99 for 4 sets.
Play around with pricing, I mean you dont want to give it away but collectors want value for $9.99 and I've found 120 pics to be the sweet spot if (and its a big if) the model is incredibly hot and the photography is outstanding.
I think the market will top off at $29.99 for a combination CD of amatuer tease/softcore porn (pics and video).
You are really sitting pretty with your email newsletter. Thousands of potential buyer at your finger tips. All you really need to do is put a line at the bottom of each email: "Like this model? For more images of this model and many others, 411P makes available a photo set of 120 high res images for personal use on CD for $9.99. More photo sets are available for some models; see our website for pricing and availability. If video is your thing, please check out the 411p page on clips4sale.com. Fresh videos added ever 2 weeks."
That's my business model. Hope that was helpful.
Extraordinarily helpful; thanks so much for your insights, as well as those of the naysayers. Truth is so much more helpful than BS!
I love video, but have been unable to overcome the copyright issues that accompany any decent musical accompaniment. If I tried to sell my Amanda Kay video, Beyonce's lawyers would be at my throat in a heartbeat. But until recently I couldn't come up with an idea that doesn't use music but that (and this part is important) is still sexy.
But I've got an idea I'm excited about, and am now shooting some pilot test scenes, casting for models and preparing the website.
I very much appreciate your find-a-way-to-make-it-work approach. I owe you the first beer.
FYI - PayPal will shut you down for any adult oriented business. Make sure you read their Terms of Service before attempting to use them as a payment option.
The *4sale sites are the easiest way to sell stuff, just be advised they take a 40% cut to be your middelman.
K Michael wrote: FYI - PayPal will shut you down for any adult oriented business. Make sure you read their Terms of Service before attempting to use them as a payment option.
The *4sale sites are the easiest way to sell stuff, just be advised they take a 40% cut to be your middelman.
bencook2
Posts: 3,724
Pageland, South Carolina, US
K Michael wrote: FYI - PayPal will shut you down for any adult oriented business. Make sure you read their Terms of Service before attempting to use them as a payment option.
The *4sale sites are the easiest way to sell stuff, just be advised they take a 40% cut to be your middelman.
bencook2
Posts: 3,724
Pageland, South Carolina, US
Hotel Room Shooter wrote: 411,
Obviously, dont listen to the doubters. You can and will build this business. Look into clips for sale as an avenue to sell your video clips. Of the clips you have posted, I think they are way to long and get a little boring and predictable after a 5 minute slide show, but thats just 1 opinion. Marketing video is whole other can of worms besides photo sets. I'd suggest trying videos of about 2:00 instead and mix a slide show and live video together to make it flow and keep interest up.
As far as photo sets go, I've sold single girl CDs with 120 pics for $9.99. As girls build up content, I go 2 sets on 1 CD for $12.99, 3 sets for $16.99 and 4 sets (450 pics) for $19.99.
Multiple model CDs with 1 shoot each model (5 models w/80 images each) for $24.99.
Sales are sporadic and often slow but over time but I'm a firm believer that - if you shoot it; they will come. If you add 3-4 2 minute videos to each photo set experiment with bumping the CD price up to $14.99 1 set, $19.99 2 sets, $24.99 3 sets and $29.99 for 4 sets.
Play around with pricing, I mean you dont want to give it away but collectors want value for $9.99 and I've found 120 pics to be the sweet spot if (and its a big if) the model is incredibly hot and the photography is outstanding.
I think the market will top off at $29.99 for a combination CD of amatuer tease/softcore porn (pics and video).
You are really sitting pretty with your email newsletter. Thousands of potential buyer at your finger tips. All you really need to do is put a line at the bottom of each email: "Like this model? For more images of this model and many others, 411P makes available a photo set of 120 high res images for personal use on CD for $9.99. More photo sets are available for some models; see our website for pricing and availability. If video is your thing, please check out the 411p page on clips4sale.com. Fresh videos added ever 2 weeks."
Extraordinarily helpful; thanks so much for your insights, as well as those of the naysayers. Truth is so much more helpful than BS!
I love video, but have been unable to overcome the copyright issues that accompany any decent musical accompaniment. If I tried to sell my Amanda Kay video, Beyonce's lawyers would be at my throat in a heartbeat. But until recently I couldn't come up with an idea that doesn't use music but that (and this part is important) is still sexy.
But I've got an idea I'm excited about, and am now shooting some pilot test scenes, casting for models and preparing the website.
I very much appreciate your find-a-way-to-make-it-work approach. I owe you the first beer.
Nice port, too, by the way.
I do professional music production and have lot's of hot tracks. Let's work something out.
Check out RoyaltyFreeMusic.com (not free but might be worth the investment)and I believe most classical music is in the public domain but don't quote me on that. It's always worth your time to pay for an hour or two consultation with a local attorney to work out the business legalities. You might have to tweak your release paperwork and come up with a 2257 form, if you dont already use one for each shoot.
The great part about your current situation is that you should have plenty of photo content and a subscriber base so you can test out your photo CD while you experiment more with the video. I'm guessing you have gigs of photos sitting on HD and all you need to do is take the time to construct photo sets to offer and burn CDs as the orders come in. No need for jewel cases, most collectors want plain labels and plain packaging for privacy concerns. I'd brand each image with your copyright info as a business standard if you don't already. Also include you website with your copyright notice.
I'm sure some of your customers will share files on the DL with their buddies so its good marketing to put your website on there in case your pics find new interest out there in cyberspace.
Obviously, dont listen to the doubters. You can and will build this business. Look into clips for sale as an avenue to sell your video clips. Of the clips you have posted, I think they are way to long and get a little boring and predictable after a 5 minute slide show, but thats just 1 opinion. Marketing video is whole other can of worms besides photo sets. I'd suggest trying videos of about 2:00 instead and mix a slide show and live video together to make it flow and keep interest up.
As far as photo sets go, I've sold single girl CDs with 120 pics for $9.99. As girls build up content, I go 2 sets on 1 CD for $12.99, 3 sets for $16.99 and 4 sets (450 pics) for $19.99.
Multiple model CDs with 1 shoot each model (5 models w/80 images each) for $24.99.
Sales are sporadic and often slow but over time but I'm a firm believer that - if you shoot it; they will come. If you add 3-4 2 minute videos to each photo set experiment with bumping the CD price up to $14.99 1 set, $19.99 2 sets, $24.99 3 sets and $29.99 for 4 sets.
Play around with pricing, I mean you dont want to give it away but collectors want value for $9.99 and I've found 120 pics to be the sweet spot if (and its a big if) the model is incredibly hot and the photography is outstanding.
I think the market will top off at $29.99 for a combination CD of amatuer tease/softcore porn (pics and video).
You are really sitting pretty with your email newsletter. Thousands of potential buyer at your finger tips. All you really need to do is put a line at the bottom of each email: "Like this model? For more images of this model and many others, 411P makes available a photo set of 120 high res images for personal use on CD for $9.99. More photo sets are available for some models; see our website for pricing and availability. If video is your thing, please check out the 411p page on clips4sale.com. Fresh videos added ever 2 weeks."
That's my business model. Hope that was helpful.
Sounds good .. but what merchant account cc payment method are you using? Is this something that is providing you with a decent income or more of a second job?
bencook2
Posts: 3,724
Pageland, South Carolina, US
There is money to be made. It's not easy... or MM would be full of people doing it. It's a pain in the arse. But good money is there to be made.
And let me tell you there is nothing better than to be out with friends drinking and get a few email notifications saying you made $100 sitting on your ass drinking whiskey!
Extraordinarily helpful; thanks so much for your insights, as well as those of the naysayers. Truth is so much more helpful than BS!
I love video, but have been unable to overcome the copyright issues that accompany any decent musical accompaniment. If I tried to sell my Amanda Kay video, Beyonce's lawyers would be at my throat in a heartbeat. But until recently I couldn't come up with an idea that doesn't use music but that (and this part is important) is still sexy.
But I've got an idea I'm excited about, and am now shooting some pilot test scenes, casting for models and preparing the website.
I very much appreciate your find-a-way-to-make-it-work approach. I owe you the first beer.
Nice port, too, by the way.
Yes, you must be very careful when you include music ... and there are ways around using some music without violating copyright laws. Short sigments, in the background, and using music that is in public domain can help.
K Michael wrote: FYI - PayPal will shut you down for any adult oriented business. Make sure you read their Terms of Service before attempting to use them as a payment option.
The *4sale sites are the easiest way to sell stuff, just be advised they take a 40% cut to be your middelman.
Hotel Room Shooter wrote: Check out RoyaltyFreeMusic.com (not free but might be worth the investment)and I believe most classical music is in the public domain but don't quote me on that. It's always worth your time to pay for an hour or two consultation with a local attorney to work out the business legalities. You might have to tweak your release paperwork and come up with a 2257 form, if you dont already use one for each shoot.
The great part about your current situation is that you should have plenty of photo content and a subscriber base so you can test out your photo CD while you experiment more with the video. I'm guessing you have gigs of photos sitting on HD and all you need to do is take the time to construct photo sets to offer and burn CDs as the orders come in. No need for jewel cases, most collectors want plain labels and plain packaging for privacy concerns. I'd brand each image with your copyright info as a business standard if you don't already. Also include you website with your copyright notice.
I'm sure some of your customers will share files on the DL with their buddies so its good marketing to put your website on there in case your pics find new interest out there in cyberspace.
Thank you...and you're right—I am sitting on thousands of images, and I am very fortunate that one of my models possesses a very hot and very fresh face right now; I would love to capitalize on the 2,000 to 3,000 images of her in my inventory, while their value is highest.
bencook2 wrote: There is money to be made. It's not easy... or MM would be full of people doing it. It's a pain in the arse. But good money is there to be made.
And let me tell you there is nothing better than to be out with friends drinking and get a few email notifications saying you made $100 sitting on your ass drinking whiskey!
bencook2 wrote: There is money to be made. It's not easy... or MM would be full of people doing it. It's a pain in the arse. But good money is there to be made.
And let me tell you there is nothing better than to be out with friends drinking and get a few email notifications saying you made $100 sitting on your ass drinking whiskey!
Are any of you guys using Zivity.com? It "seems" to be a way to make some sales? I don't know, because I'm not a member of it.
Four-Eleven Productions wrote: Interesting idea. Do you mean original music (that sounds expensive) or off-the-shelf stuff that the musicians would provide..
There are original musicans like the one who commented. If they write the music, and own the sole copyright, then you are helping them get their music exposure too!
By the way, Peter, I sent you a "friend" request and will further discuss this with you. I'm about to launch a model/photographer website that is a cross between Zivity and Modelmayhem ... I'm give you a FREE Charter membership as long as you like it and stay active.
I felt that OneModelPlace.com should have given me a free charter membership because I had been with them so long, and did so much promotion for them. But the new owners didn't think that way when they made it a paid membership site. So I am creating the kind of modeling website that I have not seen yet anywhere!
There are original musicans like the one who commented. If they write the music, and own the sole copyright, then you are helping them get their music exposure too!
By the way, Peter, I sent you a "friend" request and will further discuss this with you. I'm about to launch a model/photographer website that is a cross between Zivity and Modelmayhem ... I'm give you a FREE Charter membership as long as you like it and stay active.
I felt that OneModelPlace.com should have given me a free charter membership because I had been with them so long, and did so much promotion for them. But the new owners didn't think that way when they made it a paid membership site. So I am creating the kind of modeling website that I have not seen yet anywhere!
Four-Eleven Productions wrote: Interesting idea. Do you mean original music (that sounds expensive) or off-the-shelf stuff that the musicians would provide..
Royalty-Free Music in fixed lengths is very inexpensive and widely available. You can purchase CDs ( with cuts timed in :30, :60 and Full Length/2+ minute lengths) or you can directly download the digital snippets you need. When I performed voiceovers we would use these quite often.
Personally, I'd recommend ditching the background soundtrack/music for any videos featuring models. I've found any soundtrack is perceived by the viewer as "cheesy" or at least distracting.
Adding music also "distances" the viewer from the content. Rather than feeling they are part of the action and the shoot, it removes them from it and they're just watching a produced video. The music can be a barrier to the model fantasy...not what most of those customers want.
Royalty-Free Music in fixed lengths is very inexpensive and widely available. You can purchase CDs ( with cuts timed in :30, :60 and Full Length/2+ minute lengths) or you can directly download the digital snippets you need. When I performed voiceovers we would use these quite often.
Personally, I'd recommend ditching the background soundtrack/music for any videos featuring models. I've found any soundtrack is perceived by the viewer as "cheesy" or at least distracting.
Adding music also "distances" the viewer from the content. Rather than feeling they are part of the action and the shoot, it removes them from it and they're just watching a produced video. The music can be a barrier to the model fantasy...not what most of those customers want.
Just a thought.
I tend to agree with you, Michael, as I enjoy hearing the voices of the models and photographers. It does make it more intimate ... especially if she has a sweet voice!
K Michael wrote: FYI - PayPal will shut you down for any adult oriented business. Make sure you read their Terms of Service before attempting to use them as a payment option.
The *4sale sites are the easiest way to sell stuff, just be advised they take a 40% cut to be your middelman.
Yeah but that 40% is a fair price considering the ungodly amount of traffic they drive. Good enough to where I quit the day job to do it full time so yes, there is money to be made even with their 40% cut.
Michael Pandolfo wrote: Royalty-Free Music in fixed lengths is very inexpensive and widely available. You can purchase CDs ( with cuts timed in :30, :60 and Full Length/2+ minute lengths) or you can directly download the digital snippets you need. When I performed voiceovers we would use these quite often.
Personally, I'd recommend ditching the background soundtrack/music for any videos featuring models. I've found any soundtrack is perceived by the viewer as "cheesy" or at least distracting.
Adding music also "distances" the viewer from the content. Rather than feeling they are part of the action and the shoot, it removes them from it and they're just watching a produced video. The music can be a barrier to the model fantasy...not what most of those customers want.
Just a thought.
I appreciate the point of view, Michael. Up to now though, most of what I am calling 'videos' have been montages of stills, interspersed with short video clips, all timed to the music. This is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHf21h6EwH8
Personally, I don't agree about wanting to hear the photographer's voice in the video. The model? Sure. For example, there's this guy out in my part of the country that churns out this stuff that is unsexy and, in my opinion, unwatchable without the sound muted. In addition to crappy lighting and a set decor out of the Brady Bunch era, the whole time the model is displaying her 'assets', he's yakking about something his friend Emil had to say about politics, or the Harlem Globetrotters coming to town, or a favorite recipe for scalloped potatoes. The model's lines were, "Yah, yah, uh-huh, yah, uh-huh, right, yah, yah, I guess so." Drove me freaking crazy trying to watch it.
My new concept eliminates both music and the photographer's voice. Without giving away too much, I think there is something here on the creative side. It's the technical and marketing pieces that need work.
But until I build out the video idea and the supporting inventory, I'm hoping to make some money off the large pile of stills I own. Hence the thread. Thanks again for sharing your wisdom.
Four-Eleven Productions wrote: I appreciate the point of view, Michael. Up to now though, most of what I am calling 'videos' have been montages of stills, interspersed with short video clips, all timed to the music. This is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHf21h6EwH8
Personally, I don't agree about wanting to hear the photographer's voice in the video. The model? Sure. For example, there's this guy out in my part of the country that churns out this stuff that is unsexy and, in my opinion, unwatchable without the sound muted. In addition to crappy lighting and a set decor out of the Brady Bunch era, the whole time the model is displaying her 'assets', he's yakking about something his friend Emil had to say about politics, or the Harlem Globetrotters coming to town, or a favorite recipe for scalloped potatoes. The model's lines were, "Yah, yah, uh-huh, yah, uh-huh, right, yah, yah, I guess so." Drove me freaking crazy trying to watch it.
My new concept eliminates both music and the photographer's voice. Without giving away too much, I think there is something here on the creative side. It's the technical and marketing pieces that need work.
Gotcha. That makes sense in the case of the montage of stills. It would seem empty without a bit of music accompaniment. I was thinking of chronicling a live shoot on video.
But I do agree with you. I am never interested in hearing the photographers voice. Often in those types of videos they seem to forget the audience is there for the model and not the person behind the camera.
And, yes, it also assumes the model is engaged and has something to say lol.
Thanks! I was considering either including a mix of nude, implied and bikini/lingerie in each set and adopting uniform pricing…or alternatively, charging a higher price for the sets that include nudity.
Most sites I submit to have standard prices for sets accepted and in many cases they want exclusive rights. Most sites have photographer submission pages. They are precise in most of the big sites. MET,MPL.
Hotel Room Shooter wrote: Check out RoyaltyFreeMusic.com (not free but might be worth the investment)and I believe most classical music is in the public domain but don't quote me on that. It's always worth your time to pay for an hour or two consultation with a local attorney to work out the business legalities. You might have to tweak your release paperwork and come up with a 2257 form, if you dont already use one for each shoot.
The great part about your current situation is that you should have plenty of photo content and a subscriber base so you can test out your photo CD while you experiment more with the video. I'm guessing you have gigs of photos sitting on HD and all you need to do is take the time to construct photo sets to offer and burn CDs as the orders come in. No need for jewel cases, most collectors want plain labels and plain packaging for privacy concerns. I'd brand each image with your copyright info as a business standard if you don't already. Also include you website with your copyright notice.
I'm sure some of your customers will share files on the DL with their buddies so its good marketing to put your website on there in case your pics find new interest out there in cyberspace.
Music being in the public domain has nothing to do with a copyrighted recording of said composition. All recorded works are copyrighted and owned by somebody. Public Domain refers to the copyright of a composition not a recording.
Royalty-Free Music in fixed lengths is very inexpensive and widely available. You can purchase CDs ( with cuts timed in :30, :60 and Full Length/2+ minute lengths) or you can directly download the digital snippets you need. When I performed voiceovers we would use these quite often.
Personally, I'd recommend ditching the background soundtrack/music for any videos featuring models. I've found any soundtrack is perceived by the viewer as "cheesy" or at least distracting.
Adding music also "distances" the viewer from the content. Rather than feeling they are part of the action and the shoot, it removes them from it and they're just watching a produced video. The music can be a barrier to the model fantasy...not what most of those customers want.
Just a thought.
Hmmmm. Let me see. Movies... have music. TV shows... have music. Commercials...have music.
Porno's...have music. Playboys videos....have music. Need I go on?
"Music being in the public domain has nothing to do with a copyrighted recording of said composition. All recorded works are copyrighted and owned by somebody. Public Domain refers to the copyright of a composition not a recording."
Great point. I'll let the various symphony publishers out there with CDs try to figure out which of their CDs I took 2:10 of Pachelbel's Canon from. Not to mention the 2:42 of Mars from Holst's The Planets. Anyone with that kinda time and ear for music; it would be an honor to comply with a cease letter with that kinda effort.
JoJo Contest Queen
Posts: 20,872
Clearwater, Florida, US
Regarding the models in the photosets…
I trust that everyone selling photosets in this fashion is making it abundantly clear to the model before the shoot (be it TF or paid) begins that the intention of the shoot is to sell photosets.
Being open and forthcoming with this information is what an honourable business person would do.
I know, I know, the photographer holds copyright (in the USA) and is legally permitted to do whatever he/she may want with the images resulting from a shoot (as per the release) but there are some photographers that are, shall we say, less ethical than those in this thread that will attempt to market photosets from TF shoots without ever informing the model of their intent.
And no, I am not talking about ‘sharing’ the proceeds with the model; that’s between the photographer and the model.
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