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Model
megan rose
Posts: 23
Montgomery, Alabama, US


be responsible for giving
a model direction?
or is it solely on the model
and is her responsibility.

i tried imagining how
my posing would appear,
still it was kind of difficult.

after all, we don't
know exactly whats
being captured behind the
lens. in a sense, we are
blind in that regard.

so who's responsibilty
is it?

and does that mean the
photographer isn't as
good if they don't give much
direction?
Nov 09 12 05:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4,655
Houston, Texas, US


The photographer is solely responsible for creating the image he has in mind.   You're right, you probably don't know how you look through the lens, especially if you're new to modelling.

If the photographer doesn't give any or much direction it may mean you're doing what he wants. Or it may mean he doesn't know how to direct. Or, what is most likely, he doesn't really know what he wants to capture and may be hoping inspiration hits him.

It's best to have a conversation prior to the shoot so you both know what the photography hopes to achieve. 

I'm a big believer in having a concept before someone picks up a camera.   

Many photographers pick up the camera with no particular idea in mind. 
And many of them don't have an idea of what they got, once the put it down.
It can make for mediocre and inconsistent results.
Nov 09 12 05:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
megan rose
Posts: 23
Montgomery, Alabama, US


wow!
thanks for that insight.

i thought if much wasn't being
said, i was either off, or
doing something wrong.

and that i had to
come up with what to
do, because it was
my responsibility.

but i was reluctant to
take that initiative,
because it might have
been something the photog
would not want to capture,
or just wouldn't like.
Nov 09 12 05:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Woven Thought
Posts: 329
Petersburg, Virginia, US


I'm curious
why you write
like this is a poem?

smile
Nov 09 12 05:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,492
Portland, Oregon, US


megan rose wrote:
be responsible for giving
a model direction?
or is it solely on the model
and is her responsibility.

i tried imagining how
my posing would appear,
still it was kind of difficult.

after all, we don't
know exactly whats
being captured behind the
lens. in a sense, we are
blind in that regard.

so who's responsibilty
is it?

and does that mean the
photographer isn't as
good if they don't give much
direction?

Different photographers work differently.

If in doubt, communicate, and don't assume that not saying much means anything, because silence is very ambiguous.

Nov 09 12 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,859
Detroit, Michigan, US


megan rose wrote:
be responsible for giving
a model direction?
or is it solely on the model
and is her responsibility.

It should be mutual, particularly in terms of TF shoots. However, the better you get at posing yourself, the more valuable you are likely to be to photographers in general.

i tried imagining how
my posing would appear,
still it was kind of difficult.

This comes with time and practice. I suggest looking at poses you like and practicing them at home. You can eventually train your body to do certain things. For example, my hands are something I do automatically. I hold them a certain way and most photographers like that. Same goes for pointing your toes, and other small but significant things. It took me a long, long time to be able to pose consistently, but it finally clicked.

after all, we don't
know exactly whats
being captured behind the
lens. in a sense, we are
blind in that regard.

so who's responsibilty
is it?

You are right, we models do not know and the angle the photographer chooses to shoot at and the lighting can make or break the shot even if you have a good or even great pose. Similarly, a good angle and lighting can make even a mundane or boring pose look interesting. I have done many body scapes where I was just lying there and the photographer chose an angle that made the shot look stunning.

and does that mean the
photographer isn't as
good if they don't give much
direction?

I have worked with a pretty big range of photographers in terms of their talent and skill. Some of the less skilled ones give a ton of direction and some of the highly skilled ones give very little direction beyond a feeling or mood and expect the model to be able to emote. Most people fall somewhere in between and I encourage people to give me direction if I cannot tell if they are liking what they are getting or not.

If you are not confident in your posing, it would be a good idea to ask the photographer for examples of what he or she has in mind as you are planning the shoot. And also politely let them know that you would love it if they could give you some feedback so you know if the photos are looking good. I also tell people that it is okay if they say "Let's try something else" if they do not like something because that helps both of us get better photos. ^_^

Nov 09 12 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Great lyrics.
Nov 09 12 05:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
megan rose
Posts: 23
Montgomery, Alabama, US


Woven Thought wrote:
I'm curious
why you write
like this is a poem?

smile

ive just gotten in the habbit of typing
that way, because i am aware of how
mondane a seeminly lengthy paragrah,
phrase, or question comes off...and for
people who have shorter attention spans,
or are just lazy when it comes to reading lol

smile

Nov 09 12 05:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl JW Johnston
Posts: 9,313
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


megan rose wrote:
ive just gotten in the habbit of typing
that way, because i am aware of how
mondane a seeminly lengthy paragrah,
phrase, or question comes off...and for
people who have shorter attention spans,
or are just lazy when it comes to reading lol

smile

great for people on iphones and such to read too big_smile i like it. makes you stand out. branding

Nov 09 12 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alicia Hansen Photo
Posts: 1,962
Durango, Colorado, US


It may feel odd to you now, but after shooting for a while, you'll generally have an understanding of how your body photographs and what angles work and which don't.

Try practicing in the mirror at home behind closed doors to see what looks good and what doesn't. When you're actually on a shoot, stop every now and then and ask to see how it looks on camera so you are aware of your body/face in that moment.

Personally; I hate feeling like I have to direct the model's poses on a shoot to get her to do anything. It's frustrating, and usually the model looks like she's forcing it too much and the pose ends up looking awkward, and just-- ugh...
I like models who are active and confident in their ability to pose on their own.



By the way, the way you're typing is killing my brain. D;
Nov 09 12 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 3,888
New York, New York, US


megan rose wrote:

ive just gotten in the habbit of typing
that way, because i am aware of how
mondane a seeminly lengthy paragrah,
phrase, or question comes off...and for
people who have shorter attention spans,
or are just lazy when it comes to reading lol

smile

I like this.
I sometimes writes in short blocks because of the same reason.

Nov 09 12 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
megan rose
Posts: 23
Montgomery, Alabama, US


Karl Johnston wrote:

great for people on iphones and such to read too big_smile i like it. makes you stand out. branding

wow! ive never though of that.
and come to think of it, it makes
even more sense. lol..
thanks for the motivation. smile
i was starting to think that
maybe it was no longer such
a good idea.

Nov 09 12 05:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A N D E R S O N
Posts: 2,553
Garden Grove, California, US


Alicia Hansen Photo wrote:
It may feel odd to you now, but after shooting for a while, you'll generally have an understanding of how your body photographs and what angles work and which don't.

Try practicing in the mirror at home behind closed doors to see what looks good and what doesn't. When you're actually on a shoot, stop every now and then and ask to see how it looks on camera so you are aware of your body/face in that moment.

Personally; I hate feeling like I have to direct the model's poses on a shoot to get her to do anything. It's frustrating, and usually the model looks like she's forcing it too much and the pose ends up looking awkward, and just-- ugh...
I like models who are active and confident in their ability to pose on their own.



By the way, the way you're typing is killing my brain. D;

I totally agree, to me that's what makes a good model. Of course I will give you a mood and explain what I am looking for. But to stop every few minutes like "what do I do, what do I do" gets really old.

Be confident in your ability, if the photographer doesn't like it I'm 98% sure they will let you know.

Nov 09 12 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,072
Orlando, Florida, US


A good model will be able to work with the photographer who will micromanage every little finger and toe placement as well as the photographer who just says "go", and never gives a single direction.  A good model will also be able to deliver when the art director or photographer explains the "scene" or feeling they want to create and understand what is being requested.

Now, obviously, some photographers are better than others at explaining what they want in all cases.

Being a good model is being able to deliver no matter how much or how little direction is given.
Nov 09 12 05:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


What is a model?

To me, I think a model is one who is very comfortable in front of a camera, has a very good look which encompasses excellent skin tone and conditioning, healthy hair, trim and toned body, and great connection to the camera which leads to strong expressions.  She/he knows their body and what poses look good and knows how to stay in one place to keep focus or depth issues to a minimum.  She is on time and reliable and easy to work with and not thinned skinned and can laugh at herself.

So while a model should know how to move and so forth, the photographer is typically the one directing the shoot and knows what they are trying to capture.   So they have chosen the set, the lighting and often the wardrobe or theme of the shoot.  Since they are the only ones who can see what is being captured or seen by the camera, then ultimately it is their responsibility.  But you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Depending on the shoot requirements, it may take a little or a lot of direction, so just because they don't give much doesn't make them a bad photographer.
Nov 09 12 06:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DEP E510
Posts: 1,468
Miramar, Florida, US


megan rose wrote:
be responsible for giving
a model direction?
or is it solely on the model
and is her responsibility.

i tried imagining how
my posing would appear,
still it was kind of difficult.

after all, we don't
know exactly whats
being captured behind the
lens. in a sense, we are
blind in that regard.

so who's responsibilty
is it?

and does that mean the
photographer isn't as
good if they don't give much
direction?

Since the photographer
is the one looking
through the lens,
I think they are
the ones responsible
for directing poses.

A model presumably
chooses photographers
because of their
eye and vision-- so that vision
should include direction.

No matter how well a model 
knows how to pose, only
the photographer knows
what poses they want--
and when.

Nov 09 12 06:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1,123
San Diego, California, US


megan rose wrote:
be responsible for giving
a model direction?
or is it solely on the model
and is her responsibility.

i tried imagining how
my posing would appear,
still it was kind of difficult.

after all, we don't
know exactly whats
being captured behind the
lens. in a sense, we are
blind in that regard.

so who's responsibilty
is it?

and does that mean the
photographer isn't as
good if they don't give much
direction?

yes
a photographer isn't as  good if they don't know how to give useful
direction
but a model needs to emote, listen\ and know her angles and a range of poses that work for her

Nov 09 12 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1,123
San Diego, California, US


DEP E510 wrote:

Since the photographer
is the one looking
through the lens,
I think they are
the ones responsible
for directing poses.

A model presumably
chooses photographers
because of their
eye and vision-- so that vision
should include direction.

No matter how well a model 
knows how to pose, only
the photographer knows
what poses they want--
and when.

yes

Nov 09 12 06:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Harris Photography
Posts: 490
Edison, New Jersey, US


I tend to describe the feeling I am going for in a set, then let the model pose based on that. I also tend to talk about why I am lighting the way I do and, now that I shoot digital, show the model frames I like along the way. If I want something specific I'll talk the model into that pose. I also am a bit chatty and give a lot of reinforcing feedback.
Nov 09 12 06:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
megan rose
Posts: 23
Montgomery, Alabama, US


Mark Harris Photography wrote:
I tend to describe the feeling I am going for in a set, then let the model pose based on that. I also tend to talk about why I am lighting the way I do and, now that I shoot digital, show the model frames I like along the way. If I want something specific I'll talk the model into that pose. I also am a bit chatty and give a lot of reinforcing feedback.

you seem like the ideal
photographer for a
newcomer. smile

Nov 09 12 06:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tina Sun
Posts: 35
London, England, United Kingdom


I'll adjust according to who i'm shooting with. If i'm shooting tests for models, I'll give a bit more instruction or demonstrate what I'm after. If I'm shooting with experienced models, instructions re. posing will only come if I want something very specific or if it's not heading in quite the right style/direction.

I also like to describe the feel of the shoot in general; I always think of them as stills of a short film, so I'll describe scenario/emotion/context etc to help with posing if necessary. Though i've worked with models who just move like muses and I end up giving very little direction.

Reinforcing feedback is now a habit of mine. I'm sure people find me way too chatty. XD
Nov 09 12 11:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelleth
Posts: 2,503
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


It requires both the photographer to give direction and for you to follow this direction as well as your interpretation of it.

When you llama for a while, you develop an ability to see yourself from outside of yourself (like a mirror in your head) and know how you look from every angle imaginable.
Nov 10 12 04:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dean Johnson Photo
Posts: 55,893
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Kelleth wrote:
It requires both the photographer to give direction and for you to follow this direction and your interpretation of it.

When you model for a while, you develop an ability to see yourself from outside of yourself (like a mirror in your head) and know how you look from every angle imaginable.

Well said.

Nov 10 12 04:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


I think posing is the responsibility of the llama, you know your body better than anyone else, and like learning to walk, you'll get better with practice. llamaing is a skill that needs to be worked at like any other.

Discuss with the photographer beforehand, some like to give a lot of direction, others none.

I like to give a basic overview of what I want  and let the mode interpret that, this way the shoot goes faster than me telling them what to do and the llama gets to have their input rather than just being a clothes horse to be barked orders at.

You do need to practise in a mirror or with a camera on a tripod. Better still, if your phone has video, film yourself doing different poses and then play it back. I think posing for a lens would be better than a mirror.

Never be afraid to ask for pointers on what you can do better.

Darren x
Nov 10 12 06:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
D0127H
Posts: 1,135
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


A good subject
Owes much
To the photographer

And vice
versa


: )
Nov 10 12 06:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 8,012
Olney, Maryland, US


megan rose wrote:
ive just gotten in the habbit of typing
that way, because i am aware of how
mondane a seeminly lengthy paragrah,
phrase, or question comes off...and for
people who have shorter attention spans,
or are just lazy when it comes to reading lol

smile

Keep your paragraphs short.

But that has nothing to do with your poor spelling and lack of punctuation.

Nov 11 12 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Peters Fotografie
Posts: 1,053
Tucson, Arizona, US


first of all
your writing style shows an inner brillance
of understanding, how not to be
misunderstood
you see life from the outside in
and, the inside out

which is why you knew to ask your question

it depends on the shoot
but, ultimately, any photoshoot is teamwork
i would love to take all the credit, beginning to end
for a picture, but that's not how i work
everyone is different
and everyone is right....

feedback to a model is critical during a shoot
if the model is very experienced
i will tell them to ....try to make mistakes...
this breaks habits
keep in mind great models are not afraid to make mistakes
or hesitate with any new pose
because it might look silly
these are often the best shots ....
and not the standard cookie cutter poses

stop posing, perfect modeling is slow motion dancing
slow enough that i can keep up.....

i teach models to walk a runway
and pose blindfolded
the point is exactly to see yourself from the outside in
what is the audience seeing ... if i do this
what does the photog see, in the viewfinder ... if i do that
...now, we have teamwork ....
Nov 12 12 10:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Justin Foto
Posts: 3,587
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


Interesting opinions.
I'm guessing nobody here
has ever worked
with an artistic director.
Nov 12 12 10:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1,784
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


I prefer when I don't have to constantly direct the model. When I can verbally tell a model my idea, or show a sample image, and she can naturally place herself, I am happy.

I always try to show the model pictures in camera while we are shooting to help her see what I see and make little tweaks and corrections. Seems to work fine.
Nov 12 12 10:25 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jolly Rauncher
Posts: 1,515
Seattle, Washington, US


Mark Salo wrote:
Keep your paragraphs short.

But that has nothing to do with your poor spelling and lack of punctuation.

And this thread has nothing to do with your lack of relative input, either.



Anyway, posing becomes easier the more you do it. You'll need less direction as you develop more skills (or as someone else said, that ability to view yourself outside of yourself- great words!). Practice in a full-length mirror some poses you find particularly flattering and see how you can make it work for you. Eventually, the only direction you will need will be "You're doing great!" or "Yeah! Hold that!". If you're ever unsure, don't hesitate to ask your photographer, after all, it is their vision ultimately! But it is always a team effort.

Nov 12 12 10:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Anne_C
Posts: 728
Bellingham, Washington, US


It is both of your responsibility.

The MODEL should be able to work without direction.  The PHOTOGRAPHER should be able to give direction.  The model should be able to take the photographer's direction when he gives it.

Just talk to each other.  If I feel like I'm not getting any direction or feedback, I say something to invite it, such as: "Feel free to let me know if you like or don't like what I'm doing, or if you want me to change anything"  or "How are the photos looking?  Is there anything you'd like me to do differently?"  or "Do you want me to work with this pose for a bit, or should we change it up?"
Nov 12 12 10:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Thorpe
Posts: 686
Brandon, Florida, US


It is truly when
Models can pose easily
That my work is best
Dec 02 12 07:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


In the beginning was the act. Then came the direction.

So I mean, observe, before overdirecting.

The model should have some idea or be given some idea about the clothes, what they can do visually, or what is important to be shown etc, could be texture of a fabric or creases, tailoring.

The photographer should have some idea or be given some idea of how best to get that from the model.

I tend to let the model try first, often less is more.
Dec 02 12 07:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PDF IMAGES PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 4,585
Jacksonville, Florida, US


I usually let the model choose poses, if it's a particular look I need I'll direct, I set down with model and discuss poses as ideas together usually produce good images !
Dec 02 12 07:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S230
Posts: 551
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Often photographers would give directions but depending on experience the model has, some know how to pose.  I usually shoot with live viewing on large screens around the studio and the model can see how they look on the screen.  I often let the model choose the shot they like and we work together on postures, etc.
Dec 02 12 07:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lee_Photography
Posts: 8,405
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


megan rose wrote:
be responsible for giving
a model direction?
or is it solely on the model
and is her responsibility.

i tried imagining how
my posing would appear,
still it was kind of difficult.

after all, we don't
know exactly whats
being captured behind the
lens. in a sense, we are
blind in that regard.

so who's responsibilty
is it?

and does that mean the
photographer isn't as
good if they don't give much
direction?

Photographers are only there to set up the lighting and push the button on the camera, that is why models are hired and not people off the street. It is the models responsibility to know what her body will look like in the final image. A model should know how and what it takes to get a certain look. The photographer will position the light so the image is correctly illuminated. The director is there to give any guidance needed in making any changes in how to achieve the final look. A photographer may give feed back stating there is a shadow here if we can change this or do that it can be eliminated

Now there are things called TF shoots where the model may not know how to do posing as well as a professional model. The photographer may direct her so that he ends up with a quality photo.

For a family photo shoot, the photographer will guide the subjects to achieve a pleasant pose, as he knows that unless the clients look great they will not be buying prints.

So it really depends on the shoot, was the photographer hired to just be a photographer as in a commercial application, did you hire the photographer to do your portfolio images, is it a family photo?

Best is to know what is expected of you before the shoot begins.

As a model there are certain elements that you will gain as your knowledge of posing grows, like keep knees lower then hips for long looking legs, lower shoulder toward camera for longest appearing neck, do not point toes or fingers at camera as they will appear short, eyes look best when near centered in eye sockets. As these are just guides there may be changes made to create a certain look.

Dec 02 12 07:49 am  Link  Quote 
Model
E e v a
Posts: 1,724
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Its a bit of both. An experienced model should need a lot less direction then a new model, and a good photographer plans accordingly.

In your case you still seem a little new, which means a good photographer will help you out. But after time you'll know which poses look good and which ones just suck.

With that said, its better just to try to learn as much as possible, so you eventually wont have to rely on another person for awesome poses.
Dec 02 12 08:10 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V Laroche
Posts: 2,745
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


I like to have a short talk at the beginning of every shoot about this. I ask if the photographer likes to give a lot of direction or if they are more spontaneous. Sometimes they say they hate giving direction. Then I usually say something like, "OK, that's fine, I don't need a lot of direction, but I like some feedback every once in awhile so I know I'm headed in the right direction." So that usually works. I am good at posing but that's still not the same as having another pair of eyes 5 yards away that can see all the shadows and everything. Sometimes I miss stuff.

Nothing is worse than an over-director who doesn't know how to pose you. You will learn what works for you in terms of posing. Sometimes people will ask you to do the opposite. Then you have a quandary.
Dec 05 12 01:19 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V Laroche
Posts: 2,745
New Orleans, Louisiana, US


Lee_Photography wrote:
Photographers are only there to set up the lighting and push the button on the camera, that is why models are hired and not people off the street.

I think many, many photographers would disagree with you on that one. That's what photo assistants are for, dude!

Dec 05 12 01:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 21,103
Orlando, Florida, US


Okay  .  .  .  ready  .  .  .  set  .  .  .  go  .  .  .  model  .  .  .  howrwe doin'  .  .  .  wink  It's different with every model, some I've shot with a few times don't take much direction, you just give them an idea of what we're after, light it, put them in scene, and let them go  .  .  .  small adjustments to refine the look, and everything works  .  .  .  by the same token, if a model is somewhat new, or unsure of their posing, I'll gladly help them get angles, positions, hands, fingers, all working to help the image  .  .  .  if you want more direction, just ask, most shooters will be happy to help  .  .  .

SOS
Dec 05 12 01:31 am  Link  Quote 
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