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12last
Photographer
Dragon Graffix
Posts: 6
Portsmouth, England, United Kingdom


I have not done this before, but would any of you kind folk be able to help me here.

Is there any mechanism on Model Mayhem to indicate on a Model's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a model has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

This is so other photographers know what the model is prone to do before they waste time (and money) on the model.

Many thanks!
Nov 11 12 01:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


No.

You can rat out flakes in your own profile, but that's frowned upon and it's bad form. It'll likely make you look as bad as the flake.

You can make a "I do not recommend these models:" list, but if that list gets too many entries it just makes people wonder if you're not too sharp about filtering flakes.
Nov 11 12 02:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


The other model-website I use here in Germany has a 'rating' system: when you arrange a shoot, you send a 'Shooting-Offer' which the other party has to accept - once accepted, it acts like an informal contract and requires that the job be closed on completion.

http://www.model-kartei.de/sedcard/fotograf/278074/

The green shootingbewertungen number at the top of my profile there records the number of successful shoots and allows both parties to give feedback: positive, neutral or negative. Negative returns knock the green 'positive' totals down.

Other people searching my profile can see at a glance how many successful shoots have been completed and by clicking on the number, view the comments made by those I've worked with.

I only give negative returns to flakes and some models now have a "minus' score recorded in red as the number of negative returns outnumber positive shoots.

Since we can't even get a decent Forum-format from MM, I think it's unlikely this will be implemented here.
Nov 11 12 02:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


RKD Photographic wrote:
The other model-website I use here in Germany has a 'rating' system: when you arrange a shoot, you send a 'Shooting-Offer' which the other party has to accept - once accepted, it acts like an informal contract and requires that the job be closed on completion.

http://www.model-kartei.de/sedcard/fotograf/278074/

The green shootingbewertungen number at the top of my profile there records the number of successful shoots and allows both parties to give feedback: positive, neutral or negative. Negative returns knock the green 'positive' totals down.

Other people searching my profile can see at a glance how many successful shoots have been completed and by clicking on the number, view the comments made by those I've worked with.

I only give negative returns to flakes and some models now have a "minus' score recorded in red as the number of negative returns outnumber positive shoots.

Since we can't even get a decent Forum-format from MM, I think it's unlikely this will be implemented here.

How does that German rating system account for "he said/she said" and just plain lying?

Nov 11 12 02:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


Orca Bay Images wrote:
How does that German rating system account for "he said/she said" and just plain lying?

The Mods act as final arbitrator - If a model lies about flaking or gives a negative score out of spite, I can email or telephone the site owner and put my case across - in the event that no clear case is proven the entire 'transaction' is voided, meaning no score for either party.
It's more likely that a photographer who has organised the shoot in the first place and with a good number of positive shoots under his belt is telling the truth about a model who doesn't turn up rather than the other way round - not always, but mostly.

If you read my comments - both by me and by those I've worked with, it's easy to see a pattern - no drama.
In the case of models who flake, there's usually also a pattern of non-attendance, so other photographers will usually have commented in the same way.

Nov 11 12 03:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


RKD Photographic wrote:
The Mods act as final arbitrator

That would be a disaster on MM.

In the case of models who flake, there's usually also a pattern of non-attendance, so other photographers will usually have commented in the same way.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've been flaked on by models recommended as totally reliable by other photographers. I've recommended a couple of models who ended up flaking on the other photographers. (Shocked and embarrassed me and I didn't work with those models again.)

There are plenty of ways to smoke out flakes without implementing rating systems the mods are incapable of handling.

Nov 11 12 03:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


Orca Bay Images wrote:

RKD Photographic wrote:
The Mods act as final arbitrator

That would be a disaster on MM.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've been flaked on by models recommended as totally reliable by other photographers. I've recommended a couple of models who ended up flaking on the other photographers. (Shocked and embarrassed me and I didn't work with those models again.)

There are plenty of ways to smoke out flakes without implementing rating systems the mods are incapable of handling.

I think it's easier with a membership of thousands rather than the 100,000+ plus of MM...

Nov 11 12 03:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


RKD Photographic wrote:

I think it's easier with a membership of thousands rather than the 100,000+ plus of MM...

I agree with this, the UK equivalent (and more appropriate to the OP) is PureStorm. But if you check out their forums they still have pretty  much the same topics there as they do here.

Spotting flakes comes with experience, a rating system doesn't prevent flaking.

Nov 11 12 04:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moore Photo Graphix
Posts: 5,288
Washington, District of Columbia, US


RKD Photographic wrote:
I think it's easier with a membership of thousands rather than the 100,000+ plus of MM...

Here lies the rub! The majority of flake threads are one sided (keyword one side). We're only hearing one side of the story. However, that doesn't make it the whole story. Since there's no (physical) evidence and eyewitnesses to support the claim, it will be viewed as another he said/she said dispute that should been settled in house. MM doesn't involve with personal disputes because

1. It's the Internet, and you need to take everything you read with a grain of salt.

2. It puts them in a legal firestorm they may not recover from. You don't need to be a legal scholar to know that the accusation does more damage the crime itself. There's a term for that. It's called Nifong. So be careful what you wish for!

Nov 11 12 06:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,359
Salem, Oregon, US


network with local photographers and spread the word about the flaky model. i've steered clear of models because of bad word of mouth.
Nov 11 12 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
TinRoses
Posts: 188
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


I can't wrap my head around flaky models. Honestly. The shoots they bail on are benefiting them as much as they are the photographer and MUAs... Like... Really? An amazing shot can make or break their books. I shot with a broken foot on Friday and could have bailed for legit reasons, but I felt awful canceling since the incident that broke the foot happened less than 24 hours from time of shoot and I knew I could tough it out. And wow was it worth it!

I agree we should know who the flaky models AND Photographers are, but on MM there would be mass chaos. It's up to people to check references all the way around.
Nov 11 12 08:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,245
Portland, Oregon, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
I have not done this before, but would any of you kind folk be able to help me here.

Is there any mechanism on llama Mayhem to indicate on a llama's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a llama has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

This is so other photographers know what the llama is prone to do before they waste time (and money) on the llama.

Many thanks!

This kind of thread pops up here often, usually started by MM newbies.

The answer to your question is No.  Or to be more precise:  NOOOOOOOOO!!!

Say you tell us that Suzy didn't show up for your shoot.  We have no reason to believe or disbelieve you.  Further, the fair-minded here will reserve judgment until we hear Suzy's side of the story.  So, if you tell us that Suzy didn't show...
     ...  you are making MM a less friendly place, and
     ...  you are wasting our time.

Newbies want a mechanism, but if such a mechanism were fair, it would involve an investigation by an impartial person, and it would involve an appeals process.  That is more effort than we have available.  Further, MM might have to be prepared for legal actions if/when a claim goes unproven.  Thus, MM might have to start charging for membership, and we don't want that.


Does that mean that there is nothing you can do?  No, there's plenty you can do:

1)  Get to know your local photographic community.  Once you establish relationships there, you can complain there all you want -- hopefully, these folks will not be strangers to you and will have a reason to believe you.

2)  If unreliable llamas bother you, don't work with them.  You now know your community; share references with them.

3)  Learn other ways to determine whether a llama is reliable.  There are clues everywhere.  For example:  how varied is her portfolio, has she worked with a wide variety of photographers, what do those photographers say about her, etc.?


I believe that these things take care of themselves in the long run: 

   If a llama in consistently unreliable, she won't find work.

   If a photographer consistently gets flaked upon, he will improve his selection
   criteria.

Nov 11 12 09:02 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,883
Detroit, Michigan, US


There are ways to cut down on the number of flakes you have. After a few years in this, and many more dealing with people for interviews and such, this is what I recommend personally:

1. Look for a well-written profile that shows some degree of dedication to modeling.

2. Look at the messages you receive from the model. Does she seem interested and ask for any missing info? Does she offer suggestions or at least respond in a way that seems positive ("I love that concept!")? Not every message has to be long and detailed, but there should be some level of interest.

3. Make sure you send the date, time, address, concepts, etc of the shoot at least a couple days in advance if you can. Include your phone number and ask for hers as well.

4. Ask around about her. Check those she has credited on MM. Ask around in any relevant circles you may have. You do not have to ask about flaking specifically, just ask how she was to work with and if they enjoyed working with her. If she flaked, they will likely let you know all about it without you asking outright.

I also would note that one or two negative responses from a pool of inquiries about a model (or a photographer for that matter) may just indicate that they did not click creatively. We are still human and we still have disagreements. I would be more concerned if I start to see a pattern or if something more serious comes up.

Finally, if you are investing quite a bit in the shoot and must use a new model who you do not know (with an increased risk of her not showing), have someone on call who will come in if she does not show. I know a lot of photographers who have a couple or a few model friends who can come in last minute.

You might also be interested in reading a couple other responses I had to similar questions:
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st17482194
http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st17380661
Nov 11 12 09:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


Dekilah wrote:
I also would note that one or two negative responses from a pool of inquiries about a model (or a photographer for that matter) may just indicate that they did not click creatively. We are still human and we still have disagreements. I would be more concerned if I start to see a pattern or if something more serious comes up.

Which is why on the 'other' site I only give a negative for a complete no-show with no communication to that effect.
Even late (very late) cancellations only get a 'neutral' as they did at least let me know in advance.

Nov 11 12 09:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


A pretty good list, but I'd add some qualifications in bold.

Dekilah wrote:
1. Look for a well-written profile that shows some degree of dedication to modeling.

Not a solid qualifier. Good communication skills are a big plus but they don't alway correlate with modeling results. I've seen some beautifully written profiles by models who never manage to update their ports despite photographers lining up to shoot with her. I've had some wonderful shoots with models who could barely cobble together a complete sentence.

2. Look at the messages you receive from the model. Does she seem interested and ask for any missing info? Does she offer suggestions or at least respond in a way that seems positive ("I love that concept!")? Not every message has to be long and detailed, but there should be some level of interest.

Beware the excessively enthusiastic new model. The more wildly enthusiastic they are, the less likely they are to actually follow through.
But if the model responds to ideas and answers questions and seems engaged, that's a great sign.

Beware the model who, when asked a series of questions in one PM, answers only the first. You ask the remaining questions again, and again the model answers only the top of the list. Pass on any model who turns negotiations into a game of Twenty Questions.


3. Make sure you send the date, time, address, concepts, etc of the shoot at least a couple days in advance if you can. Include your phone number and ask for hers as well.

Don't schedule a model if she hesitates to give at least one way (and better, two) to contact her outside of MM.

4. Ask around about her. Check those she has credited on MM. Ask around in any relevant circles you may have. You do not have to ask about flaking specifically, just ask how she was to work with and if they enjoyed working with her. If she flaked, they will likely let you know all about it without you asking outright.

Problem with this method: A model is unlikely to credit a photographer on whom she flaked. Ask those she credited and they'll say she was great.

One can ask a bunch of photographers in the area as suggested.

Another tactic I use is to check the model's profile for unfavorable tages that suggest a flakeout ("What happened to you today?"). If the model is a flake, she might not be particularly alert about deleting those tags quickly.


I also would note that one or two negative responses from a pool of inquiries about a model (or a photographer for that matter) may just indicate that they did not click creatively. We are still human and we still have disagreements. I would be more concerned if I start to see a pattern or if something more serious comes up.

One missed shoot, maybe. Multiple missed shoots, steer clear.

Finally, if you are investing quite a bit in the shoot and must use a new model who you do not know (with an increased risk of her not showing), have someone on call who will come in if she does not show. I know a lot of photographers who have a couple or a few model friends who can come in last minute.

If I'm in doubt but the model has some upside, I offer the model a slot in a multiple-model shoot. If she doesn't show, no big loss on my part. That's also an option for new models who are afraid to be alone with the photographer.

Nov 11 12 11:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
I have not done this before, but would any of you kind folk be able to help me here.

Is there any mechanism on llama Mayhem to indicate on a llama's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a llama has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

This is so other photographers know what the llama is prone to do before they waste time (and money) on the llama.

Many thanks!

How do you know the reason the gave you is the truth? Maybe they had a good reason they were comfortable telling you so they made one up.

Nov 11 12 11:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karl Philip Duarte
Posts: 133
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


My way works in the years I have used MM for Models I have simply met with model before the shoot and if she shows up for a prelimary meeting and is serious I know she will show on shoot day........
Nov 11 12 12:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Karl Philip Duarte  wrote:
My way works in the years I have used MM for Models I have simply met with model before the shoot and if she shows up for a prelimary meeting and is serious I know she will show on shoot day........

Some of the models I've worked with are a one to two hour drive from me. I'm not driving two to four hours for a pre-shoot introduction.

Nov 11 12 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
IDiivil
Posts: 4,038
Los Angeles, California, US


Best thing to do is brush it off, learn what you can from it to better avoid it in the future, and move on. The tips above should help for the most part. Use your own judgment smile
Nov 11 12 03:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PDF IMAGES PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 4,603
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Starting an (HE said/ She said) is only opening up  Pandora's box with Medusa on the other end......(whom I shot with) I use a star rating....more stars better workability of model, also contact models/ photographers and whom they shot with to get feedback, you yourself must make your own decision and use better judgement, but no way start this he/ she stuff.
Nov 11 12 03:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 38,049
Portland, Oregon, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
I have not done this before, but would any of you kind folk be able to help me here.

Is there any mechanism on Model Mayhem to indicate on a Model's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a model has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

This is so other photographers know what the model is prone to do before they waste time (and money) on the model.

Many thanks!

Nope, you just reach down, pull up your big boy panties and move on.

As others have said, you can also work on your flake detection skills.

Nov 11 12 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,098
New York, New York, US


Karl Philip Duarte  wrote:
My way works in the years I have used MM for Models I have simply met with model before the shoot and if she shows up for a prelimary meeting and is serious I know she will show on shoot day........
Orca Bay Images wrote:
Some of the models I've worked with are a one to two hour drive from me. I'm not driving two to four hours for a pre-shoot introduction.

Karl's right where practical and I've found that if the in person meet is not practical, at least a substantive telephone conversation is a good second best.  The sound of each other's voices seems to give a sense of reality to the whole process that's lacking with just a PM that says basically just "Let's shoot."  And I've almost never had a flake where I've confirmed with a precise of the planned shoot with all pertinent details.

Unfortunately, there will be a certain irreducible percentage of flakes and for those there's nothing more effective than a resigned shrug of the shoulders.

IMHO as always.

Nov 11 12 04:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Antediluvian Design
Posts: 1,137
Dunmore, Pennsylvania, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
I have not done this before, but would any of you kind folk be able to help me here.

Is there any mechanism on Model Mayhem to indicate on a Model's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a model has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

This is so other photographers know what the model is prone to do before they waste time (and money) on the model.

Many thanks!

Outing models is the third rail of politics on MM.

Nov 11 12 05:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moore Photo Graphix
Posts: 5,288
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Antediluvian Design wrote:
Outing models is the third rail of politicsanother quick way to earn a trip to the brig on MM.

Needed to fix that for you!

Nov 11 12 05:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dragon Graffix
Posts: 6
Portsmouth, England, United Kingdom


Thank you to all of you who tried to answer my question, it is appreciated.

The situation resolved itself in the end. I reminded the model that I had turned down paid photographic work because I had committed to carrying out a photoshoot with her, and it was extremely unprofessional to call off a photoshoot for the reasons that she gave. She apologised, and called the photoshoot back on again, so a happy ending!

It was interesting reading some of your comments particularly about the onus on 'proof' and the worry of legal action. We in the UK do not seem to be such a litigious society as you in the US, although it seems we are catching up at a rate of knots!

Thanks again!
Nov 16 12 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Stephanie Yakir
Posts: 81
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Karl Philip Duarte  wrote:
My way works in the years I have used MM for Models I have simply met with model before the shoot and if she shows up for a prelimary meeting and is serious I know she will show on shoot day........

This. I always try to meet a photographer for coffee or something before the actual shoot. I started doing this for other reasons, but I quickly learned that its a great indicator of what kind of person they are.

Nov 16 12 02:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,359
Salem, Oregon, US


i've had several flakes where they called me and i thought we had a good conversation and booked a shoot. i've also had models who showed up solely through texting. so far money is the only thing i've found that is foolproof (but i know that hasn't worked for everyone).

Rays Fine Art wrote:
Karl's right where practical and I've found that if the in person meet is not practical, at least a substantive telephone conversation is a good second best.  The sound of each other's voices seems to give a sense of reality to the whole process that's lacking with just a PM that says basically just "Let's shoot."

Nov 16 12 02:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1,786
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Having a "do not recommend" list on your profile is unprofessional an tacky, as is complaining about flakes, as is starting threads about flakes.

Not everyone is reliable. Decide not to work with those people again and leave it at that.

If anyone ever spoke negatively about a model to me I would listen to them, take what they said into consideration... But in the end I would contact the model and decide for myself.
Nov 16 12 03:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,864
Olivet, Michigan, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
I have not done this before, but would any of you kind folk be able to help me here.

Is there any mechanism on Model Mayhem to indicate on a Model's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a model has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

This is so other photographers know what the model is prone to do before they waste time (and money) on the model.

Many thanks!

If someone asks, I tell them.  On occasion, if it's a photographer I have ongoing communication with, who knows about my ongoing plans, I might well let them know why they won't be seeing any images.  But, you're not going to have anyway to put someone about it on the model's profile.  (Other than a tag, which is VERY not allowed.)  It's really annoying, but there are legit cases of "the other side of the story" often enough it can't work.

Nov 16 12 03:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
Thank you to all of you who tried to answer my question, it is appreciated.

The situation resolved itself in the end. I reminded the model that I had turned down paid photographic work because I had committed to carrying out a photoshoot with her, and it was extremely unprofessional to call off a photoshoot for the reasons that she gave. She apologised, and called the photoshoot back on again, so a happy ending!

It was interesting reading some of your comments particularly about the onus on 'proof' and the worry of legal action. We in the UK do not seem to be such a litigious society as you in the US, although it seems we are catching up at a rate of knots!

Thanks again!

And here you were ready to post this model's name on a Red Flag website so others could see that you had issues.

And it turns out it was just a lack of communication that was easily resolved once both parties discussed it. It didn't "resolve itself"...both of you involved resolved it by talking.

I think that not only answers your question about that type of negative press (and the websites that encourage it) but goes a long way toward diagnosing the majority of conflicts that arise...lack of effective communication.

If the communication is adequate, all parties have aligned expectations and unresolved conflicts are rare. Not totally avoidable in all cases, but certainly minimized.

Nov 16 12 03:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gaze at Photography
Posts: 4,371
Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US


Fuck that.......
Nov 16 12 03:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtGlo
Posts: 506
Peru, Illinois, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:

RKD Photographic wrote:
The Mods act as final arbitrator

That would be a disaster on MM.


Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I've been flaked on by models recommended as totally reliable by other photographers. I've recommended a couple of models who ended up flaking on the other photographers. (Shocked and embarrassed me and I didn't work with those models again.)

There are plenty of ways to smoke out flakes without implementing rating systems the mods are incapable of handling.

would be a disaster in most places

Nov 16 12 03:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Blaneyphoto
Posts: 546
New York, New York, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
Is there any mechanism on Model Mayhem to indicate on a Model's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a model has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

If I work with a MM model, I list them in my profile. I also include this text as the header:

"I have worked with many models, but here's a list of the few who are MM members. I've worked with some of these models multiple times.
Some of these models were terrific to work with and others were horrible, so please feel free to contact me for a reference if you're planning to work with them."

So, anyone is welcome to contact me about anyone I've worked with - whenever or wherever. They'll get a succinct, accurate summary of our work and communication experience. Great or awful, it'll be fair and truthful.

Nov 16 12 10:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dragon Graffix
Posts: 6
Portsmouth, England, United Kingdom


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
And here you were ready to post this model's name on a Red Flag website so others could see that you had issues.

Sorry no, I think you have jumped to a wrong conclusion here. I was not "ready to post this model's name on a Red Flag website". The model cancelled on me for an unprofessional reason. As I am a member of a UK based portfolio hosting website that allows you to put up feedback if a model cancels without a valid reason, I was merely asking whether Model Mayhem had the same facility.

Nov 18 12 09:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moore Photo Graphix
Posts: 5,288
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Dragon Graffix wrote:
Sorry no, I think you have jumped to a wrong conclusion here. I was not "ready to post this model's name on a Red Flag website". The model cancelled on me for an unprofessional reason. As I am a member of a UK based portfolio hosting website that allows you to put up feedback if a model cancels without a valid reason, I was merely asking whether Model Mayhem had the same facility.

It doesn't! Here's why!

1. MM has made it clear along time ago not to get involve in personal disputes. Many flake and cancellation threads are one-sided (keyword is one side). It's not that they're lying, but we can't confirm they're telling the truth because this is the internet. Not everything you read on there is 100% true. So, who'll verify the information, and can you have them be independent to avoid any conflict of interest?

2. If the information posted turn out to be false, who'll be held accountable? That opens the site, let alone the owners of it, to a legal firestorm it may not survive. How would feel if a model posted deliberate misinformation on your profile without any fear of punishment? Ever thought about that? If not, you might need to reconsider. There's an old saying that goes if you plan to seek revenge, start digging 2 graves. A better option is to move on and forget the incident never happened.

Nov 18 12 03:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,309
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Karl Philip Duarte  wrote:
My way works in the years I have used MM for Models I have simply met with model before the shoot and if she shows up for a prelimary meeting and is serious I know she will show on shoot day........

I did pre-shoot meetings when I started modeling... They're just a waste of time. I have a full-time dayjob. If you're really that worried about whether or not I'm serious and will show up on shoot day, just PM the photographers I've worked with. Less time wasted.

Nov 18 12 04:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,309
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Dragon Graffix wrote:
I have not done this before, but would any of you kind folk be able to help me here.

Is there any mechanism on Model Mayhem to indicate on a Model's profile (or a photographer if need be) that a model has cancelled for a poor reason, or that they have no-showed for a poor reason.

This is so other photographers know what the model is prone to do before they waste time (and money) on the model.

Many thanks!

What do you mean by 'poor' reason? Just curious.

Nov 18 12 04:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mirror With A Memory
Posts: 287
New York, New York, US


The term FIDO often works.

Forget It and Drive On.
Nov 18 12 04:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,309
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Mirror With A Memory wrote:
The term FIDO often works.

Forget It and Drive On.

Some people are addicted to drama it seems...

Nov 18 12 04:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 19,083
Chicago, Illinois, US


P I X I E wrote:

I did pre-shoot meetings when I started modeling... They're just a waste of time. I have a full-time dayjob. If you're really that worried about whether or not I'm serious and will show up on shoot day, just PM the photographers I've worked with. Less time wasted.

For casual test shoots who cares but when it matters.   When I'm renting space and or hiring MUA, etc.   I want too know that models are coming.   I want too know what the model looks like without Photoshop.   Asking photographer she's worked with means nothing because she showed for them.   What I won't know is those shooters she flaked on.   When a project is important or if there is a paying client it can be critical to know your talent is reliable and looks like their images.

Nov 18 12 04:13 pm  Link  Quote 
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