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Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


Deadlymoonshade wrote:
I think people in general need to be happier with themselves and who they are. getting implants for self esteem just seems stupid to me. Why women pay so much money so men look at them is beyond me. And please don't compare getting a couple thousand dollars in surgery for fake tits to putting on concealer to cover up scares. Two different ends of a long f'in stick. Our culture is getting way to out of touch for itself, the fact "all black people look alike" is partially due to the fact everyone tries to dress the same, act the same , and pretty much be the same as everyone in their group. What the hell is wrong with being yourself? It's sad people just cant be happy with what they have.

Well, you can judge all you want, but because why some of us do what we want with our bodies is absolutely none of your business!

Nov 14 12 06:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


removing hijack.
Nov 14 12 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2,173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom


Deadlymoonshade wrote:
I think people in general need to be happier with themselves and who they are. getting implants for self esteem just seems stupid to me. Why women pay so much money so men look at them is beyond me. And please don't compare getting a couple thousand dollars in surgery for fake tits to putting on concealer to cover up scares. Two different ends of a long f'in stick. Our culture is getting way to out of touch for itself, the fact "all black people look alike" is partially due to the fact everyone tries to dress the same, act the same , and pretty much be the same as everyone in their group. What the hell is wrong with being yourself? It's sad people just cant be happy with what they have.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Guess what..I still love my titties..damn my crappy self esteem to hell!

Nov 14 12 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


Sirensong wrote:

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Guess what..I still love my titties..damn my crappy self esteem to hell!

they are nice titties!  wink

Nov 14 12 08:43 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


My only problem with boob jobs is how they are marketed.  Fine if you want a boob job, get one, but over here at least the advertisments for plastic surgery focus on psychological effects of surgery (mainly boob jobs).  Posters have slogans such as "The biggest change you will see is on my face",  I think this is very wrong for two reasons:

1: It promotes the idea that true beauty is big boobs and if you don't have big boobs you can't be happy
2:  It promotes the idea that surgery will magically fix your body image issues.  In many (note not all) cases it won't, as soon as one thing is fixed there will be something else to fixate on.
Nov 14 12 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digital Photo PLUS
Posts: 5,503
Lorton, Virginia, US


FootNote Fotography wrote:
What a woman does with her body is her own business. Should we shame them by tell them we wont photo them because they alter their own bodes?

What women do with their bodies is their business and who I choose to model for me is my business. I don't like the way fake boobs look like (or natural boobs that look fake for that matter). It's my preference, it's not about judging or shaming. I don't think people will lose sleep over what I like or don't like.

Nov 14 12 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


_ Robyn Elizabeth _ wrote:
My only problem with boob jobs is how they are marketed.  Fine if you want a boob job, get one, but over here at least the advertisments for plastic surgery focus on psychological effects of surgery (mainly boob jobs).  Posters have slogans such as "The biggest change you will see is on my face",  I think this is very wrong for two reasons:

1: It promotes the idea that true beauty is big boobs and if you don't have big boobs you can't be happy
2:  It promotes the idea that surgery will magically fix your body image issues.  In many (note not all) cases it won't, as soon as one thing is fixed there will be something else to fixate on.

The biggest change you will see is on my face...

Means she will be smiling because she is 1. happier with herself or 2. happy that she can put on a shirt/dress and not look like a long haired 15 yr old boy.

Nov 14 12 08:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


Deadlymoonshade wrote:
Why women pay so much money so men look at them is beyond me.

This is another thing.  Men generally aren't that shallow.  It is women and the media that promote the idea that you need big breasts to be attractive, not men.

Nov 14 12 08:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


-Jen- wrote:

The biggest change you will see is on my face...

Means she will be smiling because she is 1. happier with herself or 2. happy that she can put on a shirt/dress and not look like a long haired 15 yr old boy.

This is the problem:
But why should she have to feel bad about herself for being flat chested?
Why would she have to look like a boy just because she does not have a large chest?

There are plenty of advantages to having smaller breasts, backless and strapless clothes are easier to wear, they aren't going to sag.  Looking attractive with a flat chest is all about dressing for your shape.  There are clothes I could wear that would look terrible on you and visa versa.

Nov 14 12 09:02 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


_ Robyn Elizabeth _ wrote:

This is another thing.  Men generally aren't that shallow.  It is women and the media that promote the idea that you need big breasts to be attractive, not men.

LMFAO

Men arent that shallow?

Where have you been hiding?  Men are very shallow.

Nov 14 12 09:02 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


_ Robyn Elizabeth _ wrote:

This is the problem:
But why should she have to feel bad about herself for being flat chested?
Why would she have to look like a boy just because she does not have a large chest?

There are plenty of advantages to having smaller breasts, backless and strapless clothes are easier to wear, they aren't going to sag.  Looking attractive with a flat chest is all about dressing for your shape.  There are clothes I could wear that would look terrible on you and visa versa.

Don't pick apart what I said.  This is what i heard from my best friend before she got her boobs done.  I was making a comment on why the biggest change would be on someones face.

EVERY person is different in their reasoning why they get implants.  The exact reason why is none of your business or anybody elses.

Nov 14 12 09:04 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


-Jen- wrote:

LMFAO

Men arent that shallow?

Where have you been hiding?  Men are very shallow.

Well, from personal experience, I can't fill an A cup and I can pull very easily.  I get chatted up everytime I go out.

That is your projection of men talking, not reality, either that or you know the wrong type of men.

Nov 14 12 09:04 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


-Jen- wrote:

Don't pick apart what I said.  This is what i heard from my best friend before she got her boobs done.  I was making a comment on why the biggest change would be on someones face.

EVERY person is different in their reasoning why they get implants.  The exact reason why is none of your business or anybody elses.

You did not say it was about a specific person in your reply to my general comment about an advertising campaign and therefore it was fare for me to assume you were also talking in general terms.

Yes, everyone gets them done for different reasons, but I do not think they should be able to advertise plastic surgery as a quick fix solution to people's insecurities

Nov 14 12 09:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


_ Robyn Elizabeth _ wrote:

Well, from personal experience, I can't fill an A cup and I can pull very easily.  I get chatted up everytime I go out.

That is your projection of men talking, not reality, either that or you know the wrong type of men.

I was a AAA before I got my boobs.  Doesnt mean I didnt get asked out. 

It isnt my projection of men talking or knowing the wrong men.  I'm a people watcher.  When I go to the bar I watch and I listen. 
For you to say men arent shallow is complete crap.  SOME MEN arent shallow...but SOME MEN are.  So for you to say its only women and the media is REALLY reaching.

Nov 14 12 09:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


_ Robyn Elizabeth _ wrote:

You did not say it was about a specific person in your reply to my general comment about an advertising campaign and therefore it was fare for me to assume you were also talking in general terms.

Yes, everyone gets them done for different reasons, but I do not think they should be able to advertise plastic surgery as a quick fix solution to people's insecurities

I stated what a woman might be thinking.  I didnt need to say it was any particular person.  Some women think that way, some don't. 
They don't advertise it as a quick fix solution.  If you ever have gone into a plastic surgeons office and went through the process you'd know that a good doctor doesnt take it lightly.

Nov 14 12 09:12 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


-Jen- wrote:
I stated what a woman might be thinking.  I didnt need to say it was any particular person.  Some women think that way, some don't. 
They don't advertise it as a quick fix solution.  If you ever have gone into a plastic surgeons office and went through the process you'd know that a good doctor doesnt take it lightly.

I was not saying that the doctor takes it lightly
I was not saying that people should not be able to have plastic surgery if they want it
I was not saying that a boob job will not help some people's self esteem

All I was saying is that they should not be able to advertise that the surgery will help your self esteem which is exactly what slogans such as "the biggest change you will see on my face" are doing.

Nov 14 12 09:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


Oh and I'll reply to the other half of this when I've left work
Nov 14 12 09:15 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


-Jen- wrote:
I was a AAA before I got my boobs.  Doesnt mean I didnt get asked out. 

It isnt my projection of men talking or knowing the wrong men.  I'm a people watcher.  When I go to the bar I watch and I listen. 
For you to say men arent shallow is complete crap.  SOME MEN arent shallow...but SOME MEN are.  So for you to say its only women and the media is REALLY reaching.

The societal view, that you have to have a large chest to be a real woman and attractive to men, is equivalent to the view that as a man you have to have a large cock. The main obvious difference being, that you generally don't know the size of a man's member until after you've pulled them.


While women will talk about a large cock as being amazing, this is not the defining factor in choosing who to date and similarly, while men comment on large breast as being fantastic and openly stare at a large cleavage, this is in most cases not the most important feature in who they fancy. In most cases what makes a girl stand out is hair, face, style. A large chest is a bonus, not a deciding factor.

This is why I say it is the media and women who promote the idea that the size of your breasts equate to your attractiveness. Every time there is a story in a gossip mag, about a woman who no one fancied until she got a boob job, I just want to scream "it was your lack of confidence not your figure".

People don't all fancy the same shape, there is no set view about the height, hair colour, nose shape or weight that is the only one that men like. There is acceptance that there is a range so why not with breasts?

Also, with breasts as with penis size, there is such a thing as too big.

So of course people should get a boob job if it makes them feel better about themselves, but to suggest that the pressure to be thin and yet still have a large chest comes from men, is insulting to their sex.

Nov 14 12 11:02 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


Darn auto-correct, will fix the typos when on a real computer
Nov 14 12 11:04 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Russian Katarina II
Posts: 2,515
London, England, United Kingdom


Fifi wrote:
Using you (ridiculously failed) logic, the majority of Hollywood shouldn't be allowed to be photographed for public consumption

You'd be hard pressed to find an original face out there.

You could buy three or four boob jobs for the cost of an all-veneer front that virtually every single actor on TV and in movies has, no matter how insignificant they are.

Nobody seems to have an issue with that. They all (men just like women) have work done, be it teeth, hair pieces, botox, fillers or what not.

It's the absolute norm, not an exception.

Nov 14 12 01:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Russian Katarina II
Posts: 2,515
London, England, United Kingdom


-Jen- wrote:
The biggest change you will see is on my face...

Means she will be smiling because she is 1. happier with herself or 2. happy that she can put on a shirt/dress and not look like a long haired 15 yr old boy.

Plus it's not like only flat-chested women get them done. A lot of breast augmentation surgery (be it lifts or implants) aims at fixing the wear and tear of aging and children. Men don't experience that, so they can't relate to what it means for a woman and her body awareness.

Nov 14 12 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


Katarina N. wrote:

Plus it's not like only flat-chested women get them done. A lot of breast augmentation surgery (be it lifts or implants) aims at fixing the wear and tear of aging and children. Men don't experience that, so they can't relate to what it means for a woman and her body awareness.

Yep.  I waited until I had 3 kids before I had my implants.  I don't regret them. 

I just did what I wanted and don't listen to what anyone else has to say about them.  They're my tits, on my body.  As long as I like them, that is all I care about.

Nov 14 12 01:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Russian Katarina II
Posts: 2,515
London, England, United Kingdom


-Jen- wrote:

Yep.  I waited until I had 3 kids before I had my implants.  I don't regret them. 

I just did what I wanted and don't listen to what anyone else has to say about them.  They're my tits, on my body.  As long as I like them, that is all I care about.

I wonder what people will bitch about when implants become obsolete and women get breast augmentations with stem cell injections. For whatever reason, implants seem to get all the hatred, never mind that people spend way more money on other beauty procedures...like billions of dollars on anti-aging lotions for instance, that do not even work.

Nov 14 12 01:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


Katarina & Jen,

I would just make it clear that I have no problems with people getting boob augmentations because they want them, my only issue is with how they are advertised and the fact that this make makes some people feel that they need them.
Nov 14 12 02:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

makeup and photoshop are in the same boat. Real women use makeup and they take off makeup, but they are not considered to be altering their anatomy.

Real women?! roll

You know what else alters anatomy? Carrying and breast feeding a fucking baby!

Too bad no one wants to shoot flap jack titties.

Seriously, I am so fucking sick to death of these threads.

Nov 14 12 03:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


Katarina N. wrote:

Plus it's not like only flat-chested women get them done. A lot of breast augmentation surgery (be it lifts or implants) aims at fixing the wear and tear of aging and children. Men don't experience that, so they can't relate to what it means for a woman and her body awareness.

Thank you

Nov 14 12 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,285
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements.

THEY"RE NOT HUMANZ!?!?! ALERT THE PRESSES!

Nov 14 12 03:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Gabrielle Heather
Posts: 10,064
Middle Island, New York, US


How about photographing people who have had plastic surgery for illness/survival instead of for elective causes? Thats called reality.
Nov 14 12 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mad Hatter Imagery
Posts: 1,280
Buffalo, New York, US


_ Robyn Elizabeth _ wrote:
Katarina & Jen,

I would just make it clear that I have no problems with people getting boob augmentations because they want them, my only issue is with how they are advertised and the fact that this make makes some people feel that they need them.

I agree with this. It's like keeping up with the Jones. I have nothing against women trying to improve their self-confidence, but even the flat chested women get more attention than they think they do. If in the future they have stem cell technology to force breasts to enlarge naturally by simply altering horomones, but not DNA, and certainly not inserting plastic that can leak and cause cancer than I would be all for it.

Nov 14 12 07:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Russian Katarina II
Posts: 2,515
London, England, United Kingdom


Gabrielle Heather wrote:
How about photographing people who have had plastic surgery for illness/survival instead of for elective causes? Thats called reality.

Breast augmentation after mastectomies thankfully is an option for hundreds of thousands of women every year. Men don't carry breasts around every day of their life and therefore have no idea what significance they have for a woman's body awareness and self confidence.

As for plastic surgery itsself, modern plastic surgery was developed in military hospitals to treat combat-related disfigurements. It isn't just about vanity, it helps millions of people around the world to live full and normal lives, people who have been disfigured due to war, accidents, crime or illnesses through no fault of their own.

As with any technology there is a potential for abuse (like women who suffer from body dysmorphic disorder and are addicted to surgery), but that is not the fault of the technology itsself, but of its faulty human applications. Just as an example, a great plastic surgeon wouldn't operate on an 18 year old with perfect breasts. Unfortunately as with any other industry, for some members of thet rade, money counts more than having their clients' best interests at heart.

Nov 15 12 03:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R_Marquez
Posts: 4,608
San Francisco, California, US


I've never felt fake boobs. sad

Haven't known many women that had boob jobs. I only knew one that had hers done. She was pretty to begin with, but if that made her feel as pretty as she already looked, then more power to her.

I don't really care. Breasts are breasts. What's next? We can't use strobes because they take away from the beautiful natural light that the sun gives us? Where do we draw that arbitrary line?
Nov 15 12 04:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
-Jen-
Posts: 46,812
Howell, Michigan, US


Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

I agree with this. It's like keeping up with the Jones. I have nothing against women trying to improve their self-confidence, but even the flat chested women get more attention than they think they do. If in the future they have stem cell technology to force breasts to enlarge naturally by simply altering horomones, but not DNA, and certainly not inserting plastic that can leak and cause cancer than I would be all for it.

I have saline implants.  If they leak, it is absorbed into my body and thats that.

They have new silicone gel that is thick and doesnt ooze out. My doctor actually showed me the gel inside and let me touch it. 

There was never any conclusive evidence that said silicone implants cause cancer.

Nov 15 12 06:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mad Hatter Imagery
Posts: 1,280
Buffalo, New York, US


-Jen- wrote:

I have saline implants.  If they leak, it is absorbed into my body and thats that.

They have new silicone gel that is thick and doesnt ooze out. My doctor actually showed me the gel inside and let me touch it. 

There was never any conclusive evidence that said silicone implants cause cancer.

I applaud your choice of the safer version. Believe it or not they've never proven that smoking causes cancer either because it would be unethical to take a healthy person and make them start smoking to see if they get cancer because we already have plenty of compelling evidents (but not proof) that that's what's going to happen.

Nov 15 12 09:09 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Misty R H
Posts: 471
Anaheim, California, US


Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography?

I won't get involved in the plastic surgery debate as both sides have valid points.  I will say that mainstream photographers that make their living with commerical shoots need to photograph models that suit the purpose of shoot.  Commercial models are picked to showcase a product in its best light and to appeal to a certain target demographic.   So it really doesn't matter if the model has had plastic surgery or not. It only matters that the model has the desired look to appeal to the target audience.

Nov 15 12 08:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Diana Duong
Posts: 1,005
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
makeup and photoshop are in the same boat. Real women use makeup and they take off makeup, but they are not considered to be altering their anatomy.
Sophia Be wrote:
Real women?! roll

You know what else alters anatomy? Carrying and breast feeding a fucking baby!

Too bad no one wants to shoot flap jack titties.

Seriously, I am so fucking sick to death of these threads.

+2 (poor women go through a lot of natural bodily changes.. all that bio stuff sad)

What's a real woman and a real man?!?!  Somebody tell me.  Wtf is up with that post anyways.. "real women use makeup and they take off makeup"

Nov 15 12 08:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Gabrielle Heather
Posts: 10,064
Middle Island, New York, US


Katarina N. wrote:
Breast augmentation after mastectomies thankfully is an option for hundreds of thousands of women every year. Men don't carry breasts around every day of their life and therefore have no idea what significance they have for a woman's body awareness and self confidence.

As for plastic surgery itsself, modern plastic surgery was developed in military hospitals to treat combat-related disfigurements. It isn't just about vanity, it helps millions of people around the world to live full and normal lives, people who have been disfigured due to war, accidents, crime or illnesses through no fault of their own.

As with any technology there is a potential for abuse (like women who suffer from body dysmorphic disorder and are addicted to surgery), but that is not the fault of the technology itsself, but of its faulty human applications. Just as an example, a great plastic surgeon wouldn't operate on an 18 year old with perfect breasts. Unfortunately as with any other industry, for some members of thet rade, money counts more than having their clients' best interests at heart.

how significant are your breasts to you?

Nov 15 12 09:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
john_ellis
Posts: 4,375
Spokane, Washington, US


Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Should mainstream photographers photograph women who have breast implants or facial plastic surgeries for common and general commercial photography? When it comes to pornography it seems fine because that is designed around fantasy and basically the selling of the person themselves, and is clearly not designed to be the way the girl next door looks. Meanwhile photography of a more artistic nature is either about the true human form or about expressing a point of view on something. My concern is people might become more attracted to women (or men) with fake features that don't represent humanity when they see common advertisements. Of course there is also photoshopping, but that usually is for removing complexion flaws and increasing sizes, but not altering as much natural shapes. any thoughts on this?

Yeah, I guess I see your point.  There's a chance that over time, advertising won't accurately represent real life. 

I mean, if it starts with people, it could go as far as burger ads that don't show you what you get in person.

If only this thread was started in the early 1900s.

Nov 16 12 03:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
john_ellis
Posts: 4,375
Spokane, Washington, US


Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

In the case of reconstructive surgery not done out of vanity I can see exception for.

You have models in your MM profile who've colored their hair.  Why did you make an exception and shoot with them when that was done for vanity?

Makeup isn't natural and is surreal.  They have makeup on.  Same question applies.

Nov 16 12 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mad Hatter Imagery
Posts: 1,280
Buffalo, New York, US


john_ellis wrote:

You have models in your MM profile who've colored their hair.  Why did you make an exception and shoot with them when that was done for vanity?

Makeup isn't natural and is surreal.  They have makeup on.  Same question applies.

Makeup, clothes fashion, teeth whitening, and hair color are done for vanity, but they aren't permanent and don't change the form of the person. And pretty much all women color their hair so there is no need to argue against that. Odds are even they don't recall their original color. I don't consider those measures drastic as they are quite reversable and don't require a medical specialist to complete the transformation. Personally I don't mind photographing women that utilize none of the above, but often times they will insist upon it.

Nov 16 12 03:53 pm  Link  Quote 
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