Hi, I am writing this because I just met up with the director of Wilhelmina Minneapolis and he wanted me to sign a contract. He was the director last year of a different agency that fell through, so I had known him previously from open calls at that agency. Now, he is the director at Wilhelmina and contacted me. He spent the first hour of our meeting showing me all the success his girls has gotten. (Target ads, Mag covers etc.) then he showed me the contract and said "Lets get you going." and he spent lots of time with me explaining nutrition and proper exercise to get my body in tip top shape for modeling again. On the contract, it says that the first photoshoot with them is 500 dollars. Then, an additional 300 dollars for my portfolio to be made and another 100 for my comp cards. There were other fees as well and it all added up to $2050 dollars. OMG! Who has that kind of money?!
I'm really confused because he seems to have had successful girls there and he told me they are connected with L.A. and N.Y. Wilhelmina. So part of me thinks it is legit, but the money being paid upfront REALLY scares me. He says no matter what agency you are with, you are going to have to pay money at some point.
They put out some helpful books and the name is not unfamiliar. That being said, I've heard some bad things about them relating to scam sort of operations. The fact that he told you that you'll be putting money out with any agency is untrue. You may have to pay for supplies to promote yourself, but agencies generally aren't out to make money off of you other than what they get from the client.
Google them and make a decision. They've been in the news on several occasions.
Personally, I'm not one of their fans.
The only reason I don't come right out and say they're awful is I have a hard time thinking all the bad rep is true if they've been in business so long.
Katrina Patridge wrote: So is it just an overall scam and I should probably stay away from it?
The real Wilhelmina died years ago of cancer. The company has continued, using her name after her death. The New York agency is still well respected, but it is not regarded as well as when she was there.
Management though, is driven by profits, which is true of many corporations. They have an obligation to their stock holders. As a result, they have reached out to increase revenues in a number of ways. The first was to hook up with Options Talent to form the Wilhelmina Modeling Network, an Internet agency. I don't think they realized how unsavory their partner was alleged to have been, but the marriage broke up quickly.
Since then they have been licensing the name "Wilhelmina" to smaller agencies and schools around the country. The problem is they haven't done a very good job of vetting them or managing them. The result is that they have hooked up with several modeling schools, portfolio mills and the like. Girls sign up thinking they are involved with Wilhelmina, and in fact, they are just independent agencies that have bought a license to use the name.
There have been many allegations of scams of all kinds. Generally speaking, if an agency wants you to update your portfolio, they should give you a list of approved photographers, you should choose the one of your choice and deal with them directly. It is inappropriate, in most cases, for an agency to charge you to shoot your portfolio for you. In some states, it is illegal.
There are a lot of reasons why a legitimate agency will want you to have new photos. They should be making their money though, from getting you work, not taking your picture.
almost the same thing happened to me with a different agency.
Its not exactly a scam, but it's close.
Everyone they 'promote' pays them that original fee, but there are no promises that they will actually get you work, so you could be in the .05% of models that the agency actually gets jobs for, or you'll be a part of the latter that doesn't get anything out of it.
Brianne Leary
Posts: 179
OTTSVILLE, Pennsylvania, US
I don't know much about them so I can't personally say.
I do know however that agencies should not be asking you for money upfront. I'm with a local agency, and the only time they would require payment FROM ME is if I wanted to have myself posted on their website. They will still submit me for gigs/jobs/etc I could qualify for, but the website would help more in the sense that clients will be looking at their website to find what look they want.
They also refer me to a certain photographer, and HE requires payment, but...I don't know, I haven't worked with their recommended photographer.
If I were you I wouldn't bother with that offer unless you have more money than you know what to do with. Even then, I don't know how much it would be worth it.
The real Wilhelmina died years ago of cancer. The company has continued, using her name after her death. The New York agency is still well respected, but it is not regarded as well as when she was there.
Management though, is driven by profits, which is true of many corporations. They have an obligation to their stock holders. As a result, they have reached out to increase revenues in a number of ways. The first was to hook up with Options Talent to form the Wilhelmina Modeling Network, an Internet agency. I don't think they realized how unsavory their partner was alleged to have been, but the marriage broke up quickly.
Since then they have been licensing the name "Wilhelmina" to smaller agencies and schools around the country. The problem is they haven't done a very good job of vetting them or managing them. The result is that they have hooked up with several modeling schools, portfolio mills and the like. Girls sign up thinking they are involved with Wilhelmina, and in fact, they are just independent agencies that have bought a license to use the name.
There have been many allegations of scams of all kinds. Generally speaking, if an agency wants you to update your portfolio, they should give you a list of approved photographers, you should choose the one of your choice and deal with them directly. It is inappropriate, in most cases, for an agency to charge you to shoot your portfolio for you. In some states, it is illegal.
There are a lot of reasons why a legitimate agency will want you to have new photos. They should be making their money though, from getting you work, not taking your picture.
You have a great look. Good luck to you.
Thank you for this response post. It was also very informative for me. Very helpful.
Prospective models (who find the agencies licensing the name Wilhemina) can also call the Wilhelmina NY office and the L.A. office and speak directly ith a representative there. They will tell you pretty much just what ei Total Productions wrote. They will be brief and possibly short...but informative and understanding.
I have had experiences with this company quite like yours. You shouldn't give them your money, if they like you then another agency will like you. Its so much money and zero guarantee, it is not worth it unless you have that money just sitting around (wouldn't that be nice!).
Eric, the head of Wilhelmina MPLS, told me something along the lines of "well just because one McDonald's down the road is bad doesn't mean that this one is" (without saying anything specific about PA, LOL), and I replied "well that's the problem with licencing your name isnt it!
Stephanie_Bee wrote: Eric, the head of Wilhelmina MPLS, told me something along the lines of "well just because one McDonald's down the road is bad doesn't mean that this one is" (without saying anything specific about PA, LOL), and I replied "well that's the problem with licencing your name isnt it!
You should have said, "That may be true, but in the end, you're still both McDonalds."
Also the way they are 'connected' with the NY and LA offices is "sometimes" the people from those offices will look at who the affiliate has listed. That means the person still has to be within NYC agency standards (tall and thin) to catch their attention. When you can just go to an open call for free
http://wilhelmina.com/contactus.cfm DISCLAIMER: www.wilhelmina.com is the only official website of Wilhelmina International, Inc., one of the preeminent model management firms in the world. Impostors have used websites and email addresses incorporating the Wilhelmina name. Such activities do not have the authorization of Wilhelmina International, Inc. and they are fraudulent. Anyone who has had dealings with or communications from these impostors should contact the Better Business Bureau, the FBI, or other law enforcement agencies.
Contact websitehelp@wilhelmina.com if you have any questions about using the Wilhelmina website.
Chances are you will pay them $500, they will then book you with an MM photographer on a TF shoot. They will then want the photographer to provide hair, MU, stylist and wardrobe.
Common practice for unscrupulous agencies/management reps.
WMcK
Posts: 5,190
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Katrina Patridge wrote: He was the director last year of a different agency that fell through
This alone should set alarm bells ringing. Did the models who had paid him get their money back? Obviously when his previous agency fell through, they would not get any further bookings from him. Do you trust him not to fail again?
There are a some great, legitimate, already well-established commercial agencies (since you're under 5'7) here in Minneapolis (which, very likely, could be the agencies actually booking jobs for some of the WM models that may have non-exclusive contracts...the agency doesn't have to say whether or not they booked the jobs, as long as they're able to show their models in it).
There are also a lot of great photographers around here that can help you rebuild your portfolio for a lot less than what he quoted you (check out WM's FB page to see what that investment gets you). It's so nice to see people actually doing their research!
PS - weren't you in one of the Drive YouTube videos? Did they make/post that video without you even being signed to them?!
R80 wrote: You may have to pay for supplies to promote yourself, but agencies generally aren't out to make money off of you other than what they get from the client.
That's not entirely true... both the client and the model (fees) are part of the revenue stream of many, many companies... including some of the majors!
http://wilhelmina.com/contactus.cfm DISCLAIMER: www.wilhelmina.com is the only official website of Wilhelmina International, Inc., one of the preeminent model management firms in the world. Impostors have used websites and email addresses incorporating the Wilhelmina name. Such activities do not have the authorization of Wilhelmina International, Inc. and they are fraudulent. Anyone who has had dealings with or communications from these impostors should contact the Better Business Bureau, the FBI, or other law enforcement agencies.
Contact websitehelp@wilhelmina.com if you have any questions about using the Wilhelmina website.
Kelsey Roybal wrote: I'm really confused because he seems to have had successful girls there and he told me they are connected with L.A. and N.Y. Wilhelmina. So part of me thinks it is legit, but the money being paid upfront REALLY scares me. He says no matter what agency you are with, you are going to have to pay money at some point.
Hi Kelsey!
Please, do not be offended by what I am writing, and I try to find ways to say that without being hurtful, but if you look at any of the major modeling websites for fashion and see what their model stats requirements are, you will find that you are not fitting their height requirements and in one photo in your portfolio, it also looks like your hips are a little more than what a fashion agency would be looking for.
But... you have a great face... and I think that this "director" is playing on giving you the dream, he talks about getting in shape, but he had no advise on how to grow naturally another 3 inches...
Enough to get you in their door to pay for the services.
It also should make you wonder that he spent so much time, doing this hard sell to you... at agencies... you are given minutes if at all... they look through your book, look at you... and if they see the possibility that they can make money with you, they take some polaroids and will get back to you.
Don't have any other advise to you at the moment except see where your niche in modeling is, but it's not high fashion! ("high fashion" has the word "high" in it... )
Katrina Patridge wrote: I am not a high fashion model Udor, I am a commercial model.
Thanks.
I am aware of that... but the reputable, brick & mortar agencies usually allow only some deviation, not too much, so don't be surprised that for the big ones, you still maybe considered not tall enough.
You may find an agency that is smaller, but has a good reputation to get good gigs, including commercials and acting gigs...
As I've said about some other agencies here that had a system like you described. There are a lot of good/decent agencies in town that have been around for a while and that would have the same or better contacts around the country. I'd start with one of them first rather than some new franchise. Local agencies would know the local market, clients, and would be (I feel) able to help you more.
Not saying the agency in question is bad, just that there are better options locally.
R80 wrote: You may have to pay for supplies to promote yourself, but agencies generally aren't out to make money off of you other than what they get from the client.
udor wrote: That's not entirely true... both the client and the model (fees) are part of the revenue stream of many, many companies... including some of the majors!
+1
A lot of agencies here have fee's, although most are a lot more affordable than what the OP mentioned.
Dean Johnson Photo wrote: He's trying to sell you a (overpriced) photoshoot.
I don't think $500 total is that out of line for a portfolio shoot here, granted it would include makeup and hair. Not saying that's what she would be getting, but on it's own that's not too big of a red flag.
Olivia from Wisconsin, don't ya know! (17, 5'10, Mega Model Management, Miami)
I think this is how it's supposed to work. Wilhelmina has licensed some smaller agencies to use the Wilhelmina name as part of something called the Wilhelmina scouting network. As I recall, this goes back to the days of Dieter Esch (then owner of Wilhelmina) who originally hatched this scheme with a guy who promoted boy bands in Orlando, Florida. Dieter was/is an interesting guy (I knew him in New York), and rarely saw an "interesting" business idea he didn't like, particularly if there was some serious money attached.
The idea has some merit, if you are a real candidate for fashion modeling (for women this means you are between 14 and 19, 5'9 to 6' tall, so thin your mother wants to take you to the doctor, have disproportionately long legs, and have a face that would launch a thousand ships), you could go to a satellite operation like say Wilhelmina-Boise (just to pick a name), get "developed", and then shipped off to New York. The same should work for a good looking boy 6'-6'2, with a 32" waist, a 15.5" neck, and abs so tight it's criminal (the measurements for men are much tighter than they are for women).
And it's also possible that Wilhelmina-Boise might book an occasional commercial job in Boise (at least one of the three jobs available annually in Boise). And it's also possible that the major source of income for Wilhelmina-Boise will be the "Modeling" classes, portfolio shoots, prints and books, and comp cards that every "model" absolutely must have to be competitive in a market like Boise! (With only three jobs available annually, you bet it's competitive!)
Sigh, in the greater scheme of things these modeling "agencies" are relatively harmless. Yeah, some people spend money to appear to be around the industry, and get to tell their friends they are models, and for the most part it is just a rip, but their are worse problems out there. Another fly in the ointment is that let's say it works, and you do get to the big show in New York........ with Wilhelmina....... Makes you wonder what third prize would be (two weeks in Lagos, Nigeria?)
Ha! Seriously, I do like Dieter. I can't say we spent a lot of time together (we look somewhat alike), but it doesn't take long to realize the guy has an incredibly sharp business mind. So sharp that if you get too close you can wind up bleeding profusely!
John
PS: If there really is a Wilhelmina-Boise, I meant no disrespect. It's just a random name I chose because I have a personal fondness for Boise. If I was going to scout in the US, I'd probably spend a lot of time in the upper Mid-West, I mean, why go to Scandinavia when you've got all that same blood stock here (and the models wouldn't need visas!). (Note to self, check plane flights to Minneapolis.......)
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 633
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com
John Fisher wrote: Olivia from Wisconsin, don't ya know! (17, 5'10, Mega Model Management, Miami)
I think this is how it's supposed to work. Wilhelmina has licensed some smaller agencies to use the Wilhelmina name as part of something called the Wilhelmina scouting network. As I recall, this goes back to the days of Dieter Esch (then owner of Wilhelmina) who originally hatched this scheme with a guy who promoted boy bands in Orlando, Florida. Dieter was/is an interesting guy (I knew him in New York), and rarely saw an "interesting" business idea he didn't like, particularly if there was some serious money attached.
The idea has some merit, if you are a real candidate for fashion modeling (for women this means you are between 14 and 19, 5'9 to 6' tall, so thin your mother wants to take you to the doctor, have disproportionately long legs, and have a face that would launch a thousand ships), you could go to a satellite operation like say Wilhelmina-Boise (just to pick a name), get "developed", and then shipped off to New York. The same should work for a good looking boy 6'-6'2, with a 32" waist, a 15.5" neck, and abs so tight it's criminal (the measurements for men are much tighter than they are for women).
And it's also possible that Wilhelmina-Boise might book an occasional commercial job in Boise (at least one of the three jobs available annually in Boise). And it's also possible that the major source of income for Wilhelmina-Boise will be the "Modeling" classes, portfolio shoots, prints and books, and comp cards that every "model" absolutely must have to be competitive in a market like Boise! (With only three jobs available annually, you bet it's competitive!)
Sigh, in the greater scheme of things these modeling "agencies" are relatively harmless. Yeah, some people spend money to appear to be around the industry, and get to tell their friends they are models, and for the most part it is just a rip, but their are worse problems out there. Another fly in the ointment is that let's say it works, and you do get to the big show in New York........ with Wilhelmina....... Makes you wonder what third prize would be (two weeks in Lagos, Nigeria?)
Ha! Seriously, I do like Dieter. I can't say we spent a lot of time together (we look somewhat alike), but it doesn't take long to realize the guy has an incredibly sharp business mind. So sharp that if you get too close you can wind up bleeding profusely!
John
PS: If there really is a Wilhelmina-Boise, I meant no disrespect. It's just a random name I chose because I have a personal fondness for Boise. If I was going to scout in the US, I'd probably spend a lot of time in the upper Mid-West, I mean, why go to Scandinavia when you've got all that same blood stock here (and the models wouldn't need visas!). (Note to self, check plane flights to Minneapolis.......)
--
John Fisher
900 West Avenue, Suite 633
Miami Beach, Florida 33139
305 534-9322
http://www.johnfisher.com
udor wrote: I am aware of that... but the reputable, brick & mortar agencies usually allow only some deviation, not too much, so don't be surprised that for the big ones, you still maybe considered not tall enough.
You may find an agency that is smaller, but has a good reputation to get good gigs, including commercials and acting gigs...
Good luck regardless!
udor
Minneapolis is a commercial market. If any agency here wants to be making money, they more often need commercial models, not fashion models. Out of the girls that I've worked with here, the ones who book the most jobs have been in the 5'4-5'7 range, with perfect skin and teeth.
But the bigger issue again is whether or not the agency actually has clients that they can book ANY of their models with.
sara kiesling wrote: Minneapolis is a commercial market. If any agency here wants to be making money, they more often need commercial models, not fashion models. Out of the girls that I've worked with here, the ones who book the most jobs have been in the 5'4-5'7 range, with perfect skin and teeth.
Yes and no. That's how models make money, "agencies" can make money many different ways, and a lot of them don't involve getting work for their models.
Andrew Thomas Evans wrote: Yes and no. That's how models make money, "agencies" can make money many different ways, and a lot of them don't involve getting work for their models.
You're right, I should've said, "if any agency here wants to make money as a result of booking their models jobs (which is the purpose of a modeling agency)"
Unfortunately, the agency in question makes their money as a result of those different ways.
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