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Photographer
Through My Eyes 2011
Posts: 144
Grand Prairie, Texas, US


Got a question for everyone concerning paid shoots (not those commissioned by a third party)

Photographers~ When you shoot a model, do you give him/her images as well? Why or why not?

Models~ Do you insist upon images being part of your pay? Why or why not?

Thanks guys!
Nov 25 12 02:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,877
Imperial, California, US


Everyone I shoot with gets useable pics.
Nov 25 12 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Gaffney
Posts: 48
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


If paying the model, I only provide a few images as a courtesy and rarely get asked. Usually, those images that likely would end up in her port. On the other hand, trade is trade and I provide all images in jpeg format  In addition, I retouch 20-30 of whatever ones the model chooses.  Watermarked (subtle, not a big honking one that obliterates the image) and credited when posted.
Nov 25 12 02:30 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,258
New York, New York, US


My attitude is that trade is trade and paid is paid.  On the other hand I think that cooperation is a two way street, so there's certainly nothing wrong with going the extra mile for folks who reciprocate.  I certainly wouldn't shoot with anyone who demands both nor with anyone that shoots clothed for trade but wants cash on the barrelhead for nude work.

I think you'll find that most professional models don't expect pictures if they are paid in cash, but at the same time appreciate the extra kindness.
Nov 25 12 02:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,692
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


I think images and pay are both forms of compensation.  One can use either or a combination of both. 

Personally, for most shoots, I provide compensation that is a combination of both.  I figure I have the images anyways, so may as well save a little cash.   I understand however, why many photographers would prefer to give cash only, so they don't need to have the promise of images hanging over their head or in instances where images simply can't be given to models.
Nov 25 12 02:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Silver Mirage
Posts: 1,578
Plainview, Texas, US


For paid models I send them digital copies of any photos I do for myself, but I don't do any extra work on photos for them unless it's part of the compensation agreed in advance.

As a bonus for models when I get gallery quality photos, when I make gallery prints I make an extra for the model.
Nov 25 12 03:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Katherine 23
Posts: 3
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


I prefer photographers who give me the images even if it is a paid shoot...not only because it is a record of my work & life, but it can help them if I do post & credit.  It is nice when they edit a number of the images (5-30 seems standard) & sometimes it is good to have the unedited pics as well so I can show a future assignment the difference.  It is really interesting to see the difference in editing skills/ styles, as well.  Ive had some shoots that I thought would be great, but the editing was just poor, & others I thought would be average but the editing was great.  If I do a trade shoot (which I dont much) I require all the images unedited & whatever ones they edit for themselves plus the number they allow me to choose.  THANK YOU to all the photographers out there who give models the pictures!!  You're the best!!
Nov 25 12 03:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,649
Columbus, Ohio, US


Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Got a question for everyone concerning paid shoots (not those commissioned by a third party)

Photographers~ When you shoot a model, do you give him/her images as well? Why or why not?

Models~ Do you insist upon images being part of your pay? Why or why not?

Thanks guys!

1. If I feel like it.
2. If it's part of the compensation package
3. If any model insists upon it, it most certainly will factor into the comp package.

Nov 25 12 04:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,554
Salem, Oregon, US


when i pay a model i figure i don't owe them any images but usually i at least give them the ones i process for myself.
Nov 25 12 04:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,801
Atlanta, Georgia, US


The only time I am paying a model in cash is when I have a crazy idea and can't be sure the images will work.
Nov 25 12 04:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
PigeonFoo
Posts: 284
Syracuse, New York, US


Most photographers will send me a few edited shots from a paid shoot, or at least not have an issue if I chose to use what they've edited for their own portfolio. A few times I've shot for pay and not been sent, nor did I ever see, edited images but it's not a big deal since I was paid so I got what I wanted out of the shoot. Now, when I shoot for trade...better believe I want some shots for my various portfolios/networking sites. Otherwise, why exactly was I even there?
Nov 25 12 05:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,636
Los Angeles, California, US


I usually negotiate images as part of my compensation on paid shoots.

It's all what is agreed upon, but if someone pays me my full day rate, I don't automatically expect photos.
Nov 25 12 06:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
E_R_E_K_A
Posts: 2,531
Kihei, Hawaii, US


I would say that 90% of my paid shoots, send me edited images. And I've rarely ever asked to see any. Can't harm anything really. If you feel the model is worrh paying, then it's worth it if she uses any pics for her port. It's more exposure for you. Some of my favorite pictures I have posted are just sent for courtesy from paid shoots.
Nov 25 12 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Got a question for everyone concerning paid shoots (not those commissioned by a third party)

Photographers~ When you shoot a model, do you give him/her images as well? Why or why not?

Models~ Do you insist upon images being part of your pay? Why or why not?

Thanks guys!

It's crazy not to. Your work is your advertising.

The smart move would be to make use of at least one image in the models port one of the terms, especially if it's a model other models pay attention to.

Nov 25 12 06:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sichenze Photography
Posts: 276
Front Royal, Virginia, US


I also will send a couple finished shots for her portfolio.  It is good advertising and it is also good to build rapport with the model and makes them happy to work with you again and it has even worked out so that we both decided to do two TF shoots to get images we both wanted.
Nov 25 12 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPierce Photography
Posts: 19,774
Amherst, Massachusetts, US


I always, ALWAYS give pics. Paid, trade, and in between. Unless there's a client involved, then it's a different story, but I always give pics.
Nov 25 12 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1,679
Houston, Texas, US


I photographed males they almost always expect pictures. I photograph for a hobby so it's no skin off my back to burn a DVD and send them the pics. I usually added 20 or 30 and then send them as well. I find the more professional models don't even ask. But I send them pics too.
Nov 25 12 07:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,614
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Paid Shoots~ Cash + Pics?

Only for some sucke... I mean people.

Nov 25 12 07:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gallery-MG
Posts: 83
Arlington, Virginia, US


I used to send edited pictures to models after paying them, but very few (practically none) ever wrote back to say thanks.

Now I don't send pics.  I'd be willing to offer some form of cash+pics, but it seems that most models just want the cash.
Nov 25 12 07:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dgold
Posts: 10,273
North Smithfield, Rhode Island, US


...here be he, the suckah.
I pay cash plus gift a CD of usually between 150 - 250 images mix portraits, implied, glamour nude and nude from a "typical" shoot - studio or forest/nature. The CD "gift" is at my discretion.
Nov 25 12 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,614
Phoenix, Arizona, US


E_R_E_K_A wrote:
Some of my favorite pictures I have posted are just sent for courtesy from paid shoots.

And this is why you guys rarely do TFP... you figured out a way to get paid AND get fresh new pictures for your portfolios. Kudos!

Nov 25 12 07:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photoarray
Posts: 235
Crown Point, Indiana, US


When I was paying models for some of my projects, I did not include images in the payment.  I typically would provide a couple of shots, but it was in no way part of the deal or expected.
Nov 25 12 07:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


I don't expect images when I get paid, but I appreciate them when they're given, even if they are not useable.
Nov 25 12 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,614
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Nov 25 12 07:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


John Jebbia wrote:

And this is why you guys rarely do TFP... you figured out a way to get paid AND get fresh new pictures for your portfolios. Kudos!

My portfolio was built on TFP. I guess I'm doing it wrong.

Nov 25 12 07:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
LizzyB
Posts: 2,192
Rochester, New York, US


i prefer a mix of the two.
Nov 25 12 07:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Ogilvie
Posts: 6,643
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I don't pay and provide images.

Two reasons.

On the rare occasion that I pay a model, I'm paying her because she has something I can't easily obtain locally.  In my market, that's rare. Such a model already has strong enough images that she doesn't need mine.

Second reason, I prefer that my images go to models that will use them and appreciate the collaborative effort we put into the process to obtain them.

Giving images to models who won't use them just undermines the value of those images, and one's own confidence in the work.
Nov 25 12 07:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JAE
Posts: 2,140
West Chester, Pennsylvania, US


If I pay a model I send over a few I edited myself.  I don't send over all the edits normally and I don't edit anything extra.
Nov 25 12 08:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,614
Phoenix, Arizona, US


You know what's funny about this thread? I see a few respondents who have said in the past that they won't get out of bed for a photo shoot for less than $5,000. And yet those same respondents are saying right here that they'd pay models for the privilege of giving them photos anytime, anywhere.
Nov 25 12 08:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,614
Phoenix, Arizona, US


John Jebbia wrote:
You know what's funny about this thread? I see a few respondents who have said in the past that they won't get out of bed for a photo shoot for less than $5,000. And yet those same respondents are saying right here that they'd pay models for the privilege of giving them photos anytime, anywhere.

And you'll rent a commercial studio to do so..

Nov 25 12 08:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Azimuth Arts
Posts: 1,490
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I've generally shared whatever images I have posted to my portfolio with models even when I paid them.  However unlike a trade shoot I make no promises to the model about how many or how soon they will get images.  And I don't let them have any say in which images I choose to process.

For me the choice to pay is about a number of factors, usually because I don't want to have to worry about turn around time, or processing images I have no need for.  Or sometimes its because I don't want them to be posted publicly on someone's portfolio (i.e. for submission or to be part of a greater collection with no release date)

On occasion I have made a deal for cash and images, if I was able to negotiate a discounted rate.  But that is rare, and something I have more commonly done with a few of the MUAs I work with on a regular basis.

When booking paid models in the past we simply negotiated a fee.  That was it, they arrived at the shoot, we took some pictures, I paid them and they were off.  Never a word about when they might see images.  But lately I have had a number of them asking when they can get their images.  Those folks will eventually get some images, but in all likelihood it's the last time they will get any work from me.

I was recently considering a model for a project but when I read her port she claimed she no longer had need for TF.  In the next paragraph she made it very clear she will have her images in a timely fashion.  Maybe this was a hold-over from when she did do trade, but it really read like she absolutely deserved cash and images.  I have yet to contact her about shooting.

I once remarked to a model that I thought her portfolio would be stronger if she had more images that showed her in a certain style.  She told me that she hadn't done those because the photographers who were paying her wanted something else.  Many of them were not very skilled photographers.  Obviously she was making money from those shoots, but I have to wonder if she might not be even more successful if she had traded with some other photographers and not only had better pics, but maybe picked up some tips by trading with pros.  (and I didn't mean she should trade with me).

Moving forward I am making it very clear what models who are paid can expect in terms of images - almost always it will be nothing guaranteed.

Just my $0.02
Nov 25 12 08:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,717
Salinas, California, US


Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Got a question for everyone concerning paid shoots (not those commissioned by a third party)

Photographers~ When you shoot a model, do you give him/her images as well? Why or why not?

Models~ Do you insist upon images being part of your pay? Why or why not?

Thanks guys!

Sometimes I give some pictures as well as cash payment, but it depends ... at least when I do give some images, it's never as many as I normally would give a TFP.   I also consider how much I paid, and if the model would really want the images.  If a model expresses interest, then I send them some.  Ask me in a nice manner, and I'll probably do it!  It's rare that I have a model that I paid cash to "insist" on me sending them copies of what we shot as well.  Otherwise, I don't feel obligated to do so.   Hope that answers your question ... from me at least!  wink

Nov 25 12 08:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,889
Olivet, Michigan, US


Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Got a question for everyone concerning paid shoots (not those commissioned by a third party)

Photographers~ When you shoot a llama, do you give him/her images as well? Why or why not?

Models~ Do you insist upon images being part of your pay? Why or why not?

Thanks guys!

I've always offered a few when I was happy, although I object to the assumption when it wasn't part of the arrangement.

Nov 25 12 08:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,744
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Paid = $$$

TF / test = Images
Nov 25 12 08:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Miller Photoworks
Posts: 2,350
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Images by MR wrote:
Paid = $$$

TF / test = Images

Same for me, although it's helpful to send a few to models who have a large following so they post them crediting me.

Nov 25 12 08:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


with paid shoots, models want to see what they were apart of

as much as actors want to see the commercial they were in

hope that helps
Nov 25 12 09:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Carter
Posts: 7,671
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
with paid shoots, models want to see what they were apart of

as much as actors want to see the commercial they were in

hope that helps

Don't a lot of actors avoid seeing their work because they don't like seeing themselves?

If I pay someone, and I upload the photos, I tag them. I give them access to whatever I edit. But I don't actively give them photos in addition to monies.

Nov 25 12 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,889
Olivet, Michigan, US


Katherine 23 wrote:
I prefer photographers who give me the images even if it is a paid shoot...not only because it is a record of my work & life, but it can help them if I do post & credit.  It is nice when they edit a number of the images (5-30 seems standard) & sometimes it is good to have the unedited pics as well so I can show a future assignment the difference.  It is really interesting to see the difference in editing skills/ styles, as well.  Ive had some shoots that I thought would be great, but the editing was just poor, & others I thought would be average but the editing was great.  If I do a trade shoot (which I dont much) I require all the images unedited & whatever ones they edit for themselves plus the number they allow me to choose.  THANK YOU to all the photographers out there who give models the pictures!!  You're the best!!

If the pictures are that important and valuable to you, why insist on money?

Nov 25 12 09:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,889
Olivet, Michigan, US


Images by MR wrote:
Paid = $$$

TF / test = Images

If I had more (any) money, I like the idea of moderate cash payment plus images.  I just don't like the idea of paying someone $100/hr and having them make demands for image usage as well.

Nov 25 12 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lost Coast Photo
Posts: 2,674
Ferndale, California, US


The images have value. If, hypothetically, I were to agree in advance to give a llama both images and cash, I'd expect the value of the images to to be factored into a significantly reduced cash rate.

It's called part pay-part TF, and I did it a few times years ago when I first started working with internet llamas.

I'm probably not typical though, I'm experienced and I work mostly with experienced llamas who already have more images than they could post in two lifetimes. I can see where this might have value for a relatively new photographer if he/she could get a better known llama to post one of the images.
Nov 25 12 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
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