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first12
Photographer
Lost Coast Photo
Posts: 2,674
Ferndale, California, US


Art of the nude wrote:
If I had more (any) money, I like the idea of moderate cash payment plus images.  I just don't like the idea of paying someone $100/hr and having them make demands for image usage as well.

Ironically, the ones who make demands usually aren't in a position to back it up if you look at their experience/qualifications.

Nov 25 12 09:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Carter
Posts: 7,633
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Katherine 23 wrote:
I prefer photographers who give me the images even if it is a paid shoot...not only because it is a record of my work & life, but it can help them if I do post & credit.  It is nice when they edit a number of the images (5-30 seems standard) & sometimes it is good to have the unedited pics as well so I can show a future assignment the difference.  It is really interesting to see the difference in editing skills/ styles, as well.  Ive had some shoots that I thought would be great, but the editing was just poor, & others I thought would be average but the editing was great.  If I do a trade shoot (which I dont much) I require all the images unedited & whatever ones they edit for themselves plus the number they allow me to choose.  THANK YOU to all the photographers out there who give models the pictures!!  You're the best!!

So you like to have your cake and eat it too?

And 30? Really? That's kind of a lot for someone who is being paid. And I don't give away unedited photos, because I'm not a retoucher, and don't want people posting before and afters of my work. It ruins the mystery.

Wait, you REQUIRE edited, ALL unedited and your OWN photos for trade?

Nov 25 12 09:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
imcFOTO
Posts: 579
Bothell, Washington, US


Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Got a question for everyone concerning paid shoots (not those commissioned by a third party)

Photographers~ When you shoot a model, do you give him/her images as well? Why or why not?

Models~ Do you insist upon images being part of your pay? Why or why not?

Thanks guys!

Most of my shoots are TFCD and typically the model will get all the shots I edit (20 to 30) and usually they choose half or more of the shots I edit.

For a paid shoot I do the same. I never see the point not sharing edited shots with a model. Having my shots in their portfolio is a free ad for me.

Plus I always have an agreement form (TFCD or Paid Shoot) detailing what they will get and when.

I never give unedited images to a model - no exceptions. It would be like giving out an unfinished painting.

Nov 25 12 11:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Richard Tallent
Posts: 7,089
Beaumont, Texas, US


I don't pay. It's a matter of economics for me, not desire.

If a model can't accept prints or something else I can offer (accommodations, time for another genre that I don't trade for, etc.), we simply won't be able to shoot, regardless how much we like each other's work.

If I had the ability to pay, when and if I published the resulting photos, I would allow the model to uses them in her portfolio. However, I would not offer prints or promise any particular number of or schedule for finished JPEG files. The pay is the pay, and portfolio use is just common courtesy IMHO, not part of the promised compensation.
Nov 26 12 12:12 am  Link  Quote 
Model
_ Robyn Elizabeth _
Posts: 436
London, England, United Kingdom


immateria wrote:
I don't expect images when I get paid, but I appreciate them when they're given, even if they are not useable.

This

Nov 26 12 02:46 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Seker Pare
Posts: 186
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


If I am getting paid I will not ask or expect photos from the shoot - if the results are great I don't see any reason why someone would not want to share it with me and pimp it around but that's their business.
Nov 26 12 03:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,318
Asheville, North Carolina, US


AJScalzitti wrote:
The only time I am paying a model in cash is when I have a crazy idea and can't be sure the images will work.

+1   Although this describes my customary and usual approach to shooting.


I've no problem with giving the models files on paid shoots if I come up with anything interesting or useful.

edit: I should note I'm paying blue collar art model rates of $15-$25 per hour.

Nov 26 12 03:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
altSWANK
Posts: 73
Maplewood, New Jersey, US


I rarely give images from a paid shoot anymore.  Models (yes, even the professional ones) have taken advantage of this in the past.  They insist on a paid shoot only (no TFP, no part TF/ part paid, no barter, nothing) but start contacting me for images soon after the shoot is done. 

My feeling is that if you don't feel my work is good enough for any kind of TF or other arrangement, then you're not really interested in my images, just my money.  Mind you, many of these same models that want pay only, do plenty of TF with other photographers.  So yes, they want their cake (money) and want to eat it too.

The only time I give away images from a paid shoot is when the model was involved in the concept/ idea to a degree or went beyond the norm in her modeling effort.  Even then, they'll receive very few images.
Nov 26 12 03:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Red Sky Photography
Posts: 3,247
Germantown, Maryland, US


Everyone who works on a shoot with me gets images, model, MU, and Hair stylist and designers. Doesn't matter if it's paid cash, some kind of barter or straight trade for time.

I'm retouching for myself so there is no extra work for me.
Nov 26 12 07:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


What did we agree on before the shoot?
Nov 26 12 07:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


John Jebbia wrote:

And this is why you guys rarely do TFP... you figured out a way to get paid AND get fresh new pictures for your portfolios. Kudos!

Tis soon the season to be jolly Mr Marly. smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiKOJOXMJU

Nov 26 12 08:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,855
Portland, Oregon, US


Through My Eyes 2011 wrote:
Photographers~ When you shoot a model, do you give him/her images as well? Why or why not?

When I pay models, I tell them that they are welcome to right-click & save/use any of the photos I post for their on-line, non-commercial portfolios (i.e. that people don't have to pay to see); I also indicate that I'd appreciate appropriate credit and/or links to my web site.

Why?
...  These usages are not competing with mine.
...  It's an added incentive for the model.
...  It spreads the word a bit, directing the model's fans to my site.
...  It doesn't cost me any additional effort.

But in general, my feeling is that it's up to the photographer, and I can understand if a photographer doesn't want to grant models usage rights.  But c'mon, guys -- is a model's usage really that damaging to you?

Nov 26 12 09:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Quan
Posts: 230
Los Angeles, California, US


altSWANK wrote:
I rarely give images from a paid shoot anymore.  Models (yes, even the professional ones) have taken advantage of this in the past.  They insist on a paid shoot only (no TFP, no part TF/ part paid, no barter, nothing) but start contacting me for images soon after the shoot is done. 

My feeling is that if you don't feel my work is good enough for any kind of TF or other arrangement, then you're not really interested in my images, just my money.  Mind you, many of these same models that want pay only, do plenty of TF with other photographers.  So yes, they want their cake (money) and want to eat it too.

The only time I give away images from a paid shoot is when the model was involved in the concept/ idea to a degree or went beyond the norm in her modeling effort.  Even then, they'll receive very few images.

+1

Nov 26 12 11:59 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Kristiana-Retouch
Posts: 289
London, England, United Kingdom


I think it depends. Typically photographers will send to model couple of best photos. Definitely there shouldn't be requests from models for more photos or RAWs.
Nov 26 12 12:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,456
Salinas, California, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:

When I pay models, I tell them that they are welcome to right-click & save/use any of the photos I post for their on-line, non-commercial portfolios (i.e. that people don't have to pay to see); I also indicate that I'd appreciate appropriate credit and/or links to my web site.

Why?
...  These usages are not competing with mine.
...  It's an added incentive for the model.
...  It spreads the word a bit, directing the model's fans to my site.
...  It doesn't cost me any additional effort.

But in general, my feeling is that it's up to the photographer, and I can understand if a photographer doesn't want to grant models usage rights.  But c'mon, guys -- is a model's usage really that damaging to you?

I like your method.  It helps to encourage cross promotion, and you're getting that kind of activity to happen at no cost to you.

Nov 26 12 01:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digital Photo PLUS
Posts: 5,503
Lorton, Virginia, US


If I'm paying the model gets no pictures. They are welcome to snag those I finish for myself, when I finish them.
Nov 26 12 02:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Wanderlost
Posts: 1
Portland, Oregon, US


twoharts wrote:
when i pay a model i figure i don't owe them any images but usually i at least give them the ones i process for myself.

This

Nov 26 12 02:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
E e v a
Posts: 1,724
Nashville, Tennessee, US


I don't require pictures for a paid shoot. If I get a shoot that ends up having a shot that's like BAM good, then it'll always make me happy, and will make me reconsider charging in the future.
Nov 26 12 02:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Amber Dawn - Colorado
Posts: 6,049
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


I don't INSIST but I will cut my rates if I can get a few images as well.
Nov 26 12 02:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Seker Pare wrote:
If I am getting paid I will not ask or expect photos from the shoot - if the results are great I don't see any reason why someone would not want to share it with me and pimp it around but that's their business.

Because we, or many of us, are in the business of selling images, or selling the right to use them.  Giving it away for free (not trade, free) isn't terribly good business.  And it tells the model that we don't value our own work.  Again, that doesn't apply if there is some sort of arrangement that might include cash and image use; I've done that plenty of times.

Nov 26 12 04:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Colorado Model Amber wrote:
I don't INSIST but I will cut my rates if I can get a few images as well.

That's an entirely different matter.  smile

Nov 26 12 05:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MoRina
Posts: 5,629
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


Nov 26 12 08:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,233
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


John Jebbia wrote:

And this is why you guys rarely do TFP... you figured out a way to get paid AND get fresh new pictures for your portfolios. Kudos!

Great idea.

Go to local steakhouse, have dinner, and they pay you to do this.
I would be there for dinner every day.

Nov 27 12 04:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,233
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


MoRina wrote:
for doing a good job.  I like to think that I get pictures often because I show up on time, makeup and hair ready, with the wardrobe I was asked to bring.

Sorry Mo, but the above simply means that you are acting like a professional.
That is expected of a pro.
I do not tip the cook at a restaurant because they know how to boil water.
Now if you are going the extra mile, making my life easier, keeping me in a good mood during the shoot, then you are worth higher rates or absolutely some images.

Nov 27 12 04:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 8,233
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


Samantha Emme wrote:
I don't require pictures for a paid shoot. If I get a shoot that ends up having a shot that's like BAM good, then it'll always make me happy, and will make me reconsider charging in the future.

The sensible flip side.

Nov 27 12 04:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
altSWANK
Posts: 73
Maplewood, New Jersey, US


Herman Surkis wrote:

Great idea.

Go to local steakhouse, have dinner, and they pay you to do this.
I would be there for dinner every day.

BINGO!

Nov 27 12 07:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bre NYC
Posts: 5
Fort Collins, Colorado, US


Images are nice, but the contract I sign usually determines if I get images or not, when it comes to paid work.
Nov 27 12 08:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Christopher Jeremiah
Posts: 5
Salem, Oregon, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:

1. If I feel like it.
2. If it's part of the compensation package
3. If any model insists upon it, it most certainly will factor into the comp package.

Dec 05 12 06:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lela Jesse
Posts: 1,148
Arcata, California, US


If I'm getting paid, all I ask for is the right to stick the same ones in my port that you put in yours.
Dec 05 12 06:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Lela Jesse wrote:
If I'm getting paid, all I ask for is the right to stick the same ones in my port that you put in yours.

That's still use of images when you were paid.  If the images are good enough to put in your port, shouldn't they be sufficient compensation, as a rule?

Dec 05 12 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lela Jesse
Posts: 1,148
Arcata, California, US


Art of the nude wrote:

That's still use of images when you were paid.  If the images are good enough to put in your port, shouldn't they be sufficient compensation, as a rule?

Well, I put all images up that are given to me (with permission of course), just not all on MM. As I rarely do paid shoots, and I make sure to network/ promote pictures I shoot with someone, I do feel its fair. I also make sure to put in extra hours into promoting, telling others about their work, etc. just as I know they do. A photographer puts the picture out there, and reaches a certain number of people, and then I add it, and it reaches a larger number of people as we network in different circles with different clientele. I don't think of it as compensation, but as something that benefits us both. If a photographer says no, no harm done, nor does it affect my decision to work with them. I also make sure to ask their policies before we shoot, so there is no confusion. I would never ask again if the request was denied for any reason.

Dec 05 12 06:54 pm  Link  Quote 
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