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Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


this one for the braves without a dime:

my on camera SB-80 is no more, I need another light, already got an alien bee 800. What to invest into on the cheap?
Was thinking Einstein, or another on camera flash (for that budget get 2?).
Nov 28 12 07:09 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,419
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
this one for the braves without a dime

[snip]

What to invest into on the cheap?

YongNuo YN560. With the budget you mentioned (2 on camera / einstein) I'd get four, plus stands, modifiers, triggers, etc. If you need the power, put them all in one modifier, or use all four for more versatility. I use them seamlessly with my 320ws strobes (like your 800)

Nov 28 12 07:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,769
Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain


Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
this one for the braves without a dime:

my on camera SB-80 is no more, I need another light, already got an alien bee 800. What to invest into on the cheap?
Was thinking Einstein, or another on camera flash (for that budget get 2?).

Get another Speedlite...then you have a lightweight location flash. As mentioned, YN or see if you can source one of those old SJ 120's..great light if you can find one.

Nov 28 12 07:36 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,419
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Illuminate wrote:
Get another Speedlite...then you have a lightweight location flash. As mentioned, YN or see if you can source one of those old SJ 120's..great light if you can find one.

The sunpak 120j? Those are awesome... love mine for softbox (like apollos) use... def hard to find though.

Though for big power small, I've been using sunpak 622 supers.

Nov 28 12 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


great stuff!

so no einstein?
Nov 28 12 09:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Hayden
Posts: 41
Morristown, New Jersey, US


Beg borrow and steal to get an einstein, and a vagabond pack if possible.  Worth every dime, bulletproof, and will last forever.  Slightly more bulky and awkward in event-style shooting, but the light is worth it.
Nov 28 12 09:53 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,419
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Chris Hayden wrote:
Beg borrow and steal to get an einstein, and a vagabond pack if possible.  Worth every dime, bulletproof, and will last forever.  Slightly more bulky and awkward in event-style shooting, but the light is worth it.

I had an einstein and vagabond.

Sold the einstein (kept the vagabond for my flashpoints, neewer, sometimes a 19" television...) It's a great flash, but so are so many others.

Nov 28 12 09:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


Will replace the SB-80 with a YN at first for sure, but need more umph with the strobe for full body or group, so prolly Einstein and a big octo. I am dreaming of a vagabond, actually 2:
How well would it perform with the AB800 & the Einstein?
I dont buy the tech sheet from the ws. Can a vagabond do a half Day at half power with évén just 1 light? Not action, just my 6 to 12 frames per outfit.
Dec 02 12 05:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


& 20 outfits
Dec 02 12 05:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
ArtistryImage
Posts: 2,714
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
What to invest into on the cheap?

marketing to obtain clients...
if your equipment isn't paying for itself maybe there is something wrong with the equation? 

btw, what happened to the SB-800?  it's a wonderful tool in skilled hands...

all the best on your journey...

Dec 02 12 05:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


Ok that s a bit much, say 2 frames to 8 max, 8 ourdies, outdoors conditions.
Dec 02 12 05:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,522
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Anything from Elincrom would be my choice, otherwise get another speed light.  They always come in handy.
Dec 02 12 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


The AB800 is m'y work horse but i am seing the end of the 1 light deal
Dec 02 12 06:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,528
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


Einstein costs a lot more than YN speedlights.  So its a decision only you can make. do you want another strobe or do you want more speedlights?

I hate carrying around battery packs so I use strobes. Others hate leaving their fave modfiers at home so they carry strobes and vagabonds.  others are shooting in water (not near but in) so they use cheap speedlights.  Others need to knock  out the noon sun so they use strobes (or speedlights that can do HSS with their camera and cost more than strobes)...

there is no one right answer for everyone.
Dec 02 12 06:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GM Photography
Posts: 6,056
Olympia, Washington, US


Two B800's will easily light a large group.  You can always crank up the ISO a little.  An octobox will eat light, not add to it.  Consider one of the High Output beauty dishes.  I don't think that will give you enough spread to light a large group, but it will give you plenty of light output.  You can go here and get an idea of what effect different modifiers will have:  http://www.paulcbuff.com/output.php

I haven't ran the power down on my Vagabond Mini yet, but have done 300 or so shots with it with two of my cheapo 160 watt lights.  It should have plenty of juice for what you described.

I am also a fan of the YN560 II and Sunpak 622 lights (more power than your B800).

Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
Will replace the SB-80 with a YN at first for sure, but need more umph with the strobe for full body or group, so prolly Einstein and a big octo. I am dreaming of a vagabond, actually 2:
How well would it perform with the AB800 & the Einstein?
I dont buy the tech sheet from the ws. Can a vagabond do a half Day at half power with évén just 1 light? Not action, just my 6 to 12 frames per outfit.

Dec 02 12 06:39 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,419
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
Others are shooting in water (not near but in) so they use cheap speedlights.

http://www.jayleavitt.com/links/standsinwater.jpg

Dec 02 12 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


I am used to rented profoto but moved out of the industry (LA). There is nô Rental round here & I have been out of the tech loop for a while. For the type of jobs that I ll do out here I ll make do with 2 lights & a speedlite, hec with the price of these YN, mayb 3!
Dec 03 12 10:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


Btw on that nice water pic, how did u get the WB so close to the ambient? Gel, DNG or post?

I like a big octo that I can convert elinchrome style. Don t like med soft boxes eventho they FIT on most locations. My lack of light for group is partly because of the size of my umbrella and partly because my tamron which requires a bit more light for crisp. When I say group with umbrella I mean 3. Bigger group no umbrella of course, which leads me to another question,

If mixing AB & Einstein, do I have to switch the constant color mode and shoot the lights at vaguely same power for constant WB or is it negligeable or should I compensate with gels?
Dec 03 12 04:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


Why not another AB800 ?   You are already familiar with it.  It is an exact match to what you have so no adjusting between them.  Can be used as a back up or replacement light with no compensation needed.

I would also recommend getting an off brand speed light with auto flash capabilities.  NOT TTL, but Auto.   Sometimes you just need an on camera flash.
Dec 06 12 11:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ACPhotography
Posts: 8,618
Plainview, New York, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
Einstein costs a lot more than YN speedlights.  So its a decision only you can make. do you want another strobe or do you want more speedlights?

I hate carrying around battery packs so I use strobes. Others hate leaving their fave modfiers at home so they carry strobes and vagabonds.  others are shooting in water (not near but in) so they use cheap speedlights.  Others need to knock  out the noon sun so they use strobes (or speedlights that can do HSS with their camera and cost more than strobes)...

there is no one right answer for everyone.

I use a Quantum X5DR in the water, you could buy 3 Einsteins for the price of it... What's this nonsense about cheap? Insurance is cheap!

Dec 06 12 12:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mike Collins
Posts: 1,793
Orlando, Florida, US


What do you shoot?  Or want to shoot?  If you shoot in studio a lot I'd say go with the Einstein or get two more 800's.  I have 3 800s and a 1600 but I do a lot of studio portraiture with it.  Never a WB problem.  I always hear people who don't use them complain about it but never from those who actually DO use them.  If there is a shift, it's a very slight one.  And only at the low end.  I keep mine at 1/2 or 1/4 most of the time. I have never noticed it.  Einsteins seem to have corrected that "little" problem so if you got the $$.

Hell, people mix modifiers all the time and they all shift color as well.  Again, it's never that big of a deal unless your shooting for some critical commercial client. 

Speedlights are great but have power limitations.  At least compared to studio type lights.  But they do have a lot more portability.  Higher ISO's of today help as well. 

Again, it really depends on your own needs.  Not my needs or anyones else's.  Yours.
Dec 06 12 12:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
o k u t a k e
Posts: 4,660
New York, New York, US


Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
The AB800 is m'y work horse but i am seing the end of the 1 light deal

There's no real end to the 1 light deal. If you're on location, many times, it's the best and easiest way to go. I'd get a Vagabond mini along with a speedlight. You can do a lot with one light and a good selection of modifiers + reflectors.

If you're going to go with only two lights, I'd recommend getting two of the same so that it's easier to match power outputs and color.

Dec 06 12 02:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


I was in house photog for an advertising company (posters & DVD covers) and an assistant on high fashion editorials, therefore never really bought any equipment. Kept it bare, had my own little gigs & did the 1 speedlite + 1 strobe combo as much as I could but
I am getting old & I am tired of having to jerry right something against the limitations of this deal - namely the subject / background compromise when I know it's a minimum of 2 heads to get a quick & clean image (full body with kickback for silhouette def. + clean backdrop even at a distance if I want to).
U guys got me made my day about the YN & got me tempted about the vagabond, it all comes down to this then, 1 Einstein or 2 YN & a vagabond? Sux having a budget. I don't buy used flashes.
As far as on camera, I shoot D200 with a built in for catch light sometimes but not much more.
Seeing the amount of people using those speedlites I guess I could have a $45 tryout which would leave me dough for a vagabond & the opportunity to use my AB as a Norman wherever. I had though of using a dolly plus battery that would double up as a C stand but once again it s a compromise for the real thing.
& that Einstein is the real deal! Damn what to do.
Dec 06 12 10:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


Yep need to know more about the AB einstein combo. I know they have a frosted glass diffuser to lower 600 kelvins methink, is it part of the trick to use both together?
Using my AB I do c a fair change in WB, hence a custom WB for each setup.
Dec 06 12 11:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photos by Lorrin
Posts: 6,944
Eugene, Oregon, US


A AB 400 might be a answer.

At $225 - and if you need more power later it is a perfect hairlight.  I think it weighs 2.5 pounds.

and within 2 years for $75 dollars you can upgrade it to a B800
Dec 06 12 11:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


anyone shooting AB & Einstein out here?
Dec 09 12 11:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul AI
Posts: 1,046
Shawnee, Oklahoma, US


Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
anyone shooting AB & Einstein out here?

deleted

Dec 09 12 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Love the Arts
Posts: 718
Chicago, Illinois, US


Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
this one for the braves without a dime:

my on camera SB-80 is no more, I need another light, already got an alien bee 800. What to invest into on the cheap?
Was thinking Einstein, or another on camera flash (for that budget get 2?).

Why not a Yongnuo YN-560 Speedlight Flash $61.00 and then a 2nd alien bee 800 $279.95? Far less than an Einstein.

Dec 09 12 04:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,528
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


Gregory Mazzetto wrote:
Yep need to know more about the AB einstein combo. I know they have a frosted glass diffuser to lower 600 kelvins methink, is it part of the trick to use both together?
Using my AB I do c a fair change in WB, hence a custom WB for each setup.

this is a question you need to be more specific with.  Most people dont need the precise WB you require for you work.  You need to ask PCB or some product/catalog photographers who shoot with PCB products.

On the other hand, if you shot with an SB800 and and AB and had no problem I cant see how you would fare worse at getting it right with two strobes from the same manufacturer?

Dec 09 12 06:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dragon Ink Photography
Posts: 1,056
Hackettstown, New Jersey, US


ArtistryImage wrote:

marketing to obtain clients...
if your equipment isn't paying for itself maybe there is something wrong with the equation? 

btw, what happened to the SB-800?  it's a wonderful tool in skilled hands...

all the best on your journey...

This assumes he's trying to gain clients.  He may just be a hobbyist.

And yes, the SB-800 is more than adequate if you use it right.

Dec 10 12 02:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 8,148
Olney, Maryland, US


I use one or two speedlights a lot.  SB800s but in manual mode.

Some 18+
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/52 … l#/A265810
Dec 10 12 02:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,528
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


Dragon Ink Photography wrote:

This assumes he's trying to gain clients.  He may just be a hobbyist.

And yes, the SB-800 is more than adequate if you use it right.

a hobbyists shooting 6-10 frames per outfit for 20 outfits?   please dont tell me catalog work is going TFCD all over?

Dec 10 12 08:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dave Randall Photograph
Posts: 90
Garden City, Michigan, US


I have used an AB800 with a Vagabond mini and shot 400 photos on location all day.  /most of the time at half power to 1/4 power on the light.  The mini had power to spare.  By the way, an AB800 with a beauty dish lights up a big area if you need it to.  Put on a grid and light up a smaller area.
Dec 10 12 08:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Karasev Studio
Posts: 125
New York, New York, US


I have experience with both Einstein and Elinchrom RX series.

In my experience the far superior light output control range has put Einstein ahead.

In a large studio environment where you can deploy assistants to switch in a weaker head etc., Elinchrom would be better as they have more control options plus more assistants tend to be familiar with it and ProFoto than Buff. Not that Einstein is hard to learn.
Dec 10 12 09:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gregory Mazzetto
Posts: 12
Reno, Nevada, US


There is a WB difference at different power levels between the speedlite & the strobe. It is manageable and most of the time negligible but when you are trying to render fabric color it can be a headache. The reason why I am so focused on Einstein is that constant WB. I'd b using the AB for background & quickback light.
But yeah it is a pricy constraint & I'd prolly be better off with more heads or speedlites, just want to inquire about the compatibility of AB & Einstein.

BTW when I say 6 to 10 frames an outfit, it's 2 or 3 full body plus 3 or 4 details. This is all to evaluate how many batteries to buy for the vagabond, as to do a proper price estimate. On shoots we usually had a minimum of 3 since they (profoto) are slow to recharge but I don't have that money yet and don't want to get stuck out there if front of model or client.

I dunno where someone got the idea that I was marketing for client nor that it had anything to do with this post, I am trying rather to make the biggest bang for the buck. Sometime you only get one shot.
Dec 11 12 11:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Francisco Rojas
Posts: 11
Chicago, Illinois, US


I use 2ab800 with vagabond mini and it kicks ass! Was running both alien bees off of vagabond mini for about 2hrs and only brought the vagabond mini down to half charge. alien bee customer service is outstanding too so thats always a plus
Dec 12 12 03:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erik Szpyra Photography
Posts: 1
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


I adore my Einstein. I take it everywhere, including beach and water shoots. Never worry about lights in water, that's why interns are cheap and easily replaceable. wink
Dec 21 12 09:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rebellious Nature
Posts: 1
San Jose, California, US


I have been a long time user of the AB's.  Just recently I picked up an Einstein and I'm impressed.  The color is consistent across the full power range, but my favorite spec is the fast T1 flash duration.  It's easy to freeze things like water mid motion.  I will continue to use the AB's as rim and background lights, but the key light will be the Einstein.  I've used Profoto and Elinchrom strobes as well.  I love the Elinchrom Skyport system.  Bestbof luck on your decision.
Dec 31 12 02:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sand Angel Photography
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US


I have two AB800's, one 430EX, and two YN 650 II speedlights. I leave the AB's at home when I'm running around in town. I bring them along for a portrait shoot at someone's house. The three speedlights fit into a backback with my other camera stuff and I'll sometimes carry a tripod and maybe an extra light stand if I feel like it (it's nice to have but extra weight). I also carry three light stands in my truck in case I want more.

I can do a lot with two lights and the third is nice to have just in case I want more. Put that on top of two alien bees which work well at whiting out a wall, I can go up to five.

Also, the Yongnuo radio triggers are cheap and make this all more fun. I have four of those. The alien bees and the yongnuo speedlights can work on slave mode if I want to use them all at one time.
Dec 31 12 02:33 pm  Link  Quote 
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