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Model
Elise Ann
Posts: 149
South Bend, Indiana, US


I'm a model as well as a student at Indiana University. I'm doing my Sociology Term paper on how the media affects the female standard of beauty, and how that standard affects women.

I'm looking for models who ideally have had experience in fashion modeling. Opinions from plus sized models would also be appreciated.

I would like to ask a few questions about how modeling positively or negatively influences your self esteem. I am particularly interested in how models feel about photoshopped images.

So send me a message or reply to this thread if you have something to say on the topic of how modeling, the media and fashion industry influence and depict the female standard of beauty. You must be comfortable being directly quoted in my essay.
Nov 29 12 04:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
J Jessica
Posts: 2,018
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, US


Uh-oh.
yikes
Nov 29 12 05:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,833
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


Elise Ann  wrote:
I'm a model as well as a student at Indiana University. I'm doing my Sociology Term paper on how the media affects the female standard of beauty, and how that standard affects women.
...
I would like to ask a few questions about how modeling positively or negatively influences your self esteem. I am particularly interested in how models feel about photoshopped images.
... You must be comfortable being directly quoted in my essay.

Hi,

My undergraduate degree included a Sociology Major, (George Herbert Meade is my favorite theorists in this, symbolic interactionism and all.)

Anyhow, I feel like this very same question was posted by someone doing research lately, was it you?

If not, then I would like to ask you to formulate your question bettter. There are all types of photoshopping. What kind are you talking about and in what manner are you asking?

Jen

Nov 29 12 07:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alice A Dylan
Posts: 143
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Elise Ann  wrote:
I'm a model as well as a student at Indiana University. I'm doing my Sociology Term paper on how the media affects the female standard of beauty, and how that standard affects women.

I'm looking for models who ideally have had experience in fashion modeling. Opinions from plus sized models would also be appreciated.

I would like to ask a few questions about how modeling positively or negatively influences your self esteem. I am particularly interested in how models feel about photoshopped images.

So send me a message or reply to this thread if you have something to say on the topic of how modeling, the media and fashion industry influence and depict the female standard of beauty. You must be comfortable being directly quoted in my essay.

Hi, I am also taking Sociology in my university---it is my second year now, and I have a few suggestions to make. Please feel free to ignore this if you're happy with your current research approach. First of all, I think it is wiser for you to write down some general statements about your thesis before you proceed in questioning the models.

For example, how does the media portray women in the first place? Did you do a research on that or is it a mere assumption? Is it based on a primary or a secondary research (any quotations, etc)?
Your thesis asks "how the media affects the female standard of beauty", and in order to understand the "affects", one needs to read through a credible source on how the media portray these women in the first place. And what exactly is "standard of beauty"? Not every model has done research about sociological or ethical matters.

Next, your thesis approach the topic on "how that standard affects women."
Yet, you mentioned that your research question to the models will be on "how modeling positively or negatively influences your self esteem. I am particularly interested in how models feel about photoshopped images."
I hope that this is simply a minor part of your essay, as it does not really reflect or answer your thesis question.
You are only asking models (in particular, fashion models) while your research question involves all women in the society as a whole. Also, as mentioned by the model above me, what kind of photoshopped images are you referring to? Digital manipulation? Just a simple touch up? An advanced touch up?

Please do remember that your primary research methodology is through asking these questions online, in the forums---not a one on one interview. This does not give the chance for the "interviewee" to clarify the questions asked (or else, it will be a very time-consuming method) nor an in-depth knowledge about what you are looking for exactly. If your research question involves all women, you should broaden your participants to all women, instead of only fashion models.

Unless, if you clarify further that this is only a small part of your thesis, as it does not answer your research question at all.

Once again, please feel free to ignore this post if you're happy with your current approach.

Best of luck!

Nov 29 12 08:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Elise Ann
Posts: 149
South Bend, Indiana, US


MyrnaByrna wrote:

Hi,

My undergraduate degree included a Sociology Major, (George Herbert Meade is my favorite theorists in this, symbolic interactionism and all.)

Anyhow, I feel like this very same question was posted by someone doing research lately, was it you?

If not, then I would like to ask you to formulate your question bettter. There are all types of photoshopping. What kind are you talking about and in what manner are you asking?

Jen

George Herbert Meade is my favorite theorist too.

I appologize for being non-specific.

Someone did recently post a survey to models on how they feel about photoshopping if that is what you are referring too. I believe that person got criticized for not allowing models to give extended responses. But, that wasn't me who posted it. I have these two questions now, but I may pose different questions as I revise my essay.

What I want to know from you is:

1) Photoshopping has been under flare by the media a lot recently, such as Seventeen Magazine banning retouching on their cover models, and articles in the news like "Before and After Photos of Victoria Secret Model." So I want to know how models feel about the matter. Do you ever feel upset if  a photographer has changed your physical attributes in a photo? To what extent do you think photoshopping is necessary?

And if you feel so inclined, I have other questions too.

2) People often say with modeling, one day you're in, and one day you're out. We hear about agencies or companies telling models they need to loose weight even when they are paper thin. Have ever you experienced this type of criticism? How does it make you feel?

My main point for these questions is to get one on one answers from models on their points of view about the standard of beauty in the modeling industry. My essay is about how  the media contributes to the impossible standard of beauty for women, and whether or not this standard is harmful. I've already gotten opinions from a women's studies professor, so now it is your turn to be heard.

Nov 30 12 06:42 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,833
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


Elise Ann  wrote:
George Herbert Meade is my favorite theorist too.

I appologize for being non-specific.

Someone did recently post a survey to models on how they feel about photoshopping if that is what you are referring too. I believe that person got criticized for not allowing models to give extended responses. But, that wasn't me who posted it. I have these two questions now, but I may pose different questions as I revise my essay.

What I want to know from you is:

1) Photoshopping has been under flare by the media a lot recently, such as Seventeen Magazine banning retouching on their cover models, and articles in the news like "Before and After Photos of Victoria Secret Model." So I want to know how models feel about the matter. Do you ever feel upset if  a photographer has changed your physical attributes in a photo? To what extent do you think photoshopping is necessary?

And if you feel so inclined, I have other questions too.

2) People often say with modeling, one day you're in, and one day you're out. We hear about agencies or companies telling models they need to loose weight even when they are paper thin. Have ever you experienced this type of criticism? How does it make you feel?

My main point for these questions is to get one on one answers from models on their points of view about the standard of beauty in the modeling industry. My essay is about how  the media contributes to the impossible standard of beauty for women, and whether or not this standard is harmful. I've already gotten opinions from a women's studies professor, so now it is your turn to be heard.

Hello my fellow Symbolic Interactionist! wink

As for the media flare over photoshop, I don't really pay attention. I know that there are photoshopped reasons to alter a picture to be just wierd, (think shrunk noses, broadened mouths, enlarge teeth, creepiness to me and unmistakabley wierd.) That is similar looking to me as is real life 'botox mask" faces. Clearly altered.

There are also highly photoshopped images which are art and beautiful, some that are for marketing and a photographers look too.

One of the first photographers I've worked with did some very cool things with post processing and I adore her work for her artistic style, (her initials are A.F. and I have an album of her in my "Gennaver" facebook page.)

The idea that one day you are out, one day you are in is the same with Actors too, so, why focus on modeling for that?

It seems as if your questions are really loaded and that you might be looking to hear what prooves your own opinion.

Jen
edit: my opinion on the standard of beauty is that there is a place for all of us and that we are all beautiful. My first take on the shooting side of the camera invloved shooting some obviously homeless and destitute people, stunningly beautiful and that has shaped my future shooting when I get a camera.

Nov 30 12 06:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
denis071
Posts: 93
Sarajevo, Federacija Bosna i Hercegovina, Bosnia and Herzegovina


I'm also sociologist and beleive you should make some kind of a questionaire. asking such open questions - to give comments, not answer to questions - will just make your life to compile the answers in some mode of sociologically acceptable and readable material, complicated. you'll get a tone of written material that will direct you in million other areas you will think are worth concidering. better for you and more understandable to others, making a short questionaire up to 10 questions would be the best.

please put results of your research (in wathewer mode it was) here or send me a PP. I would like to see them.

all the best with your work.
Nov 30 12 06:55 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Melodye Joy
Posts: 542
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US


Elise Ann  wrote:
I'm a model as well as a student at Indiana University. I'm doing my Sociology Term paper on how the media affects the female standard of beauty, and how that standard affects women.

I'm looking for models who ideally have had experience in fashion modeling. Opinions from plus sized models would also be appreciated.

I would like to ask a few questions about how modeling positively or negatively influences your self esteem. I am particularly interested in how models feel about photoshopped images.

So send me a message or reply to this thread if you have something to say on the topic of how modeling, the media and fashion industry influence and depict the female standard of beauty. You must be comfortable being directly quoted in my essay.

Positive to modeling: Getting my creativity on and being able to 'act' without speaking. Theater is my first passion and it's something I didn't excel in due a vocal issue.
-Personally, I found confidence and figured out ways to work my flaws (I have had surgical scars on my chest since hours after I was born) to an advantage. I had one photographer as if it was okay to take the scars out of a photo, I told him it was at his discretion and he kept it because "it added character". Modeling, you have to remember, is a form of art and it's always gonna be in the 'eye of the beholder' as to what may or may not be a good piece.

Not so positive: The age old fact that there is always someone better, prettier, taller...I can't change my petite height but with heels, however, I can improve my expressions & movement. There will still forever be someone better/best. It's how you handle this and it's up to the individual as to how they may do so.

-"Standard" modeling. Ladies, it bothers me that our industry has a standard of 5'7" (for some 5'10"), size 0-2. Come on! There are some GORGEOUS petites and women that know how to WORK THOSE CURVES! I applaud Old Navy for using various, non-models in a runway show and commercial. I love that Project Runway had a few seasons of hosting models of various size, proportion. Tough for the designers, but lets be realistic, those women are the consumer & clientele.

Photoshop: I don't enjoy overly photoshopped work unless its for graphic design purpose to begin with (and that can even be an eye sore).
-Tidying up brow lines, fixing any redeye, softening the face, arms, legs- GOOD

-Not understanding lighting and thinking you can fix it in PS...true and false. Depends on the subject and content. One can often darken or lighten a face too much, bleeding the fix into hair or even background...looks crummy hmm

Flaws; A radio personality said it best just this morning, "Diamonds have flaws too". Perfect! And what are flaws anyway? Are we talking the occasional scar or are we nitpicking the zit or freckle?

As a world society, as humans, we can argue all day about what is socially acceptable, and in some ways our view of beauty is distorted.

But the bottom line is that ladies and gentleman need to find their own confidence, work their flaws to an advantage and walk with their heads held high!

Hopefully what I have said helps. smile Good luck! I loved my Sociology classes!

Nov 30 12 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Elise Ann
Posts: 149
South Bend, Indiana, US


Melodye Joy wrote:

Positive to modeling: Getting my creativity on and being able to 'act' without speaking. Theater is my first passion and it's something I didn't excel in due a vocal issue.
-Personally, I found confidence and figured out ways to work my flaws (I have had surgical scars on my chest since hours after I was born) to an advantage. I had one photographer as if it was okay to take the scars out of a photo, I told him it was at his discretion and he kept it because "it added character". Modeling, you have to remember, is a form of art and it's always gonna be in the 'eye of the beholder' as to what may or may not be a good piece.

Not so positive: The age old fact that there is always someone better, prettier, taller...I can't change my petite height but with heels, however, I can improve my expressions & movement. There will still forever be someone better/best. It's how you handle this and it's up to the individual as to how they may do so.

-"Standard" modeling. Ladies, it bothers me that our industry has a standard of 5'7" (for some 5'10"), size 0-2. Come on! There are some GORGEOUS petites and women that know how to WORK THOSE CURVES! I applaud Old Navy for using various, non-models in a runway show and commercial. I love that Project Runway had a few seasons of hosting models of various size, proportion. Tough for the designers, but lets be realistic, those women are the consumer & clientele.

Photoshop: I don't enjoy overly photoshopped work unless its for graphic design purpose to begin with (and that can even be an eye sore).
-Tidying up brow lines, fixing any redeye, softening the face, arms, legs- GOOD

-Not understanding lighting and thinking you can fix it in PS...true and false. Depends on the subject and content. One can often darken or lighten a face too much, bleeding the fix into hair or even background...looks crummy hmm

Flaws; A radio personality said it best just this morning, "Diamonds have flaws too". Perfect! And what are flaws anyway? Are we talking the occasional scar or are we nitpicking the zit or freckle?

As a world society, as humans, we can argue all day about what is socially acceptable, and in some ways our view of beauty is distorted.

But the bottom line is that ladies and gentleman need to find their own confidence, work their flaws to an advantage and walk with their heads held high!

Hopefully what I have said helps. smile Good luck! I loved my Sociology classes!

Thank you for your participation! You are very helpful. I especially like your paragraph on the industry "standard". 

(Just for clarification: when I said "flaws" I was just making the distinction between retouching small things like zits, scars, and freckles, versus large-scale, noticeable retouching such as making models much thinner or altering facial dimensions, resulting in the overly photoshopped look. )

Nov 30 12 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,489
Los Angeles, California, US


Elise Ann  wrote:
I'm a model as well as a student at Indiana University. I'm doing my Sociology Term paper on how the media affects the female standard of beauty, and how that standard affects women.

I'm looking for models who ideally have had experience in fashion modeling. Opinions from plus sized models would also be appreciated.

I would like to ask a few questions about how modeling positively or negatively influences your self esteem. I am particularly interested in how models feel about photoshopped images.

So send me a message or reply to this thread if you have something to say on the topic of how modeling, the media and fashion industry influence and depict the female standard of beauty. You must be comfortable being directly quoted in my essay.

I'm an agency-signed model.

I know that when I'm doing a job, the job isn't about me. The biggest thing you have to get over is ego. You go into a casting, judged primarily on your looks. You do well, they like you, you get called back. You do well, they still like you, you book the job. You shoot the ad with a couple of other girls, everything goes well, they love-- and guess what? Even after all that, there are still no guarantees. You can get that far and still be cut out of an ad. And it doesn't mean you did anything wrong-- it means something else marketed their product better.
The same thing goes with photoshop. Sometimes I'm photoshopped to look thinner (though not often), and I know it has nothing to do with me. Their ad or lookbook isn't about me-- it's about the clothes.
I do hate porcelain-skin retouching that makes girls look like dolls, but that's not because I'm offended or think girls will wish to look like that, I just think it's ugly.

One interesting thing I've come to notice is that sometimes a picture is edited to look more like it did in person than the picture shows. Like a weird angle or distortion. You see the before and after and go "Wow, he really messed with her nose-- it was huge before!" But really, it could have just been an odd picture that was otherwise perfect.

As far as getting rid of "imperfections," it annoys me a little when people get rid of my freckles and such because it makes it hard to use for my book.
And because I think I look weird without freckles...
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120516/17/4fb440bf2cb19.jpg

But it doesn't hurt my feelings.

I have been pressured to lose weight by an agency. Really, they were right. I was too big for that agency. So I had two choices: Lose weight, or lose the agency. I can't speak for the 16 year olds, because that's a more complicated situation, but as a 20-something woman, I have choices. I don't HAVE to be with a specific agency, or any agency, if they want me to be unhealthy. It was an easy choice for me. I went to an agency that likes a little more athletic looking girls.

I think it's easy to get upset and hurt by rejection, or being told you need to change, but it's easier to handle when you realize it isn't about you-- it's about what you're selling.

Nov 30 12 01:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
255 West
Posts: 6,468
New York, New York, US


As a photographer, I can guarantee you that all photos, 100%, are photoshopped. Maybe what you mean is 'excessively' photoshopped to the point that the subject looks radically different than the subject actually looks like in person.

About the 'sociology' of the impression of women (or anyone, or any subject at all) are portrayed that shapes the larger society's view of that subject.

Yes, I'm sure that women look at the overall media representation of beautiful women, and compare themselves, (whether they realize t or not. as in, subconsciously) and envy the "beautiful people" whom they strive to look like, and, if they fail, it radically affects their self esteem -- as much as the flattery they get from their real-world friends.

The media is MEANT to draw attention and influence, and it does it successfully, so it's not surprising that it DOES influence (usually unconsciously).

Perhaps the WORST offenders are the fashion industry.

I suggest talking to people in advertising, even a professor who may teach advertising at your university. They can tell you about media influence.
Ask about someone they can recommend, an active professional in the ad business, who you can talk to you and speak freely.
Nov 30 12 01:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
255 West
Posts: 6,468
New York, New York, US


A rape scene masquerading as a fashion shot.

http://cache.static.tsavo.com/wordpress/uploads/2009/06/dolce.jpg

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/07/03/sexual-objectification-part-1-what-is-it/
Nov 30 12 01:46 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,917
New York, New York, US


255 West wrote:
A rape scene masquerading as a fashion shot.

http://cache.static.tsavo.com/wordpress/uploads/2009/06/dolce.jpg

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/07/03/sexual-objectification-part-1-what-is-it/

I'd call it porno-fashion

/hijack

Dec 03 12 02:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Elise Ann
Posts: 149
South Bend, Indiana, US


Yeah, that photo is rather horrible from a women's rights standpoint, or from any other standpoint other than the admiring good lighting and image quality. But there are plenty of other quality photographs that aren't of a woman getting raped.
Dec 04 12 11:51 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Elise Ann  wrote:
I'm a model as well as a student at Indiana University. I'm doing my Sociology Term paper on how the media affects the female standard of beauty, and how that standard affects women.

I'm looking for models who ideally have had experience in fashion modeling. Opinions from plus sized models would also be appreciated.

I would like to ask a few questions about how modeling positively or negatively influences your self esteem. I am particularly interested in how models feel about photoshopped images.

I'd like to participate, but I really need more information first. what media? what female standard of beauty? what do you mean by "affect"? what type of women? define "photoshopped images"?
(also a sociology student. oh, and a plusmodel!).
feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post the answers here smile

Dec 04 12 11:56 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Autumn Rose Brightly
Posts: 1,063
Charlotte, North Carolina, US


I will participate
Dec 04 12 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Breanna Baker
Posts: 169
Los Angeles, California, US


I am interested if you still need a llama. I am not plus size, but I am petite.
Dec 04 12 06:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MickCetera
Posts: 276
Chicago, Illinois, US


I can try to relate to a female models perspective which is naturally more observant to her own "flaws" and others' around her because of the world she grew up in driven by the media to surround normal people with unnatural images of "flawless" people. As a guy I grew up worried about other stuff. But everyone notices how the people in advertisements stand out. The point of most advertisements is to be eye catching and a proven successful way of accomplishing this is to photoshop people into looking unnatural in a "flawless" way, right?

As a model, or any part of the entertainment industry I am constantly learning to have a thick skin. And I find myself explaining all the time that the purpose of a model is to advertise a product, not necessarily to look good. In that way I've got photoshopping pretty rationalized. So I don't mind how the media portrays modeling. Then again that might only be to avoid deeper rooted psychological objections I have about social norms typically feeling degraded by not looking as "flawless" as the models in advertisements.

The add above could be looked at as degrading, but at the same time it should be admired as eye catching. That's what I think of the media at least. Hope that helps, let me know if you need anything else, such an interesting concept!
Dec 04 12 08:54 pm  Link  Quote 
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