login info join!
Forums > Digital Art and Retouching > Fixing clumpy mascara/lashes Search   Reply
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


ok...this is a first for me...I didn't notice the model had clumpy mascara/lashes before the shoot (noticed a slight amount when the MUA was putting it on, but nowhere near as bad as I see when looking at the beauty shots zoomed in)-:

How do you retouchers fix this?  They're clumped enough that it's hard to photoshop them out because it's a fairly big area over a complicated area (the eyelids).  I tried adding some drawn lashes and then blurring/blending them in, but I keep seeing the clumped lashes :-P
It's almost better if there were no mascara or lashes so I could just glue on fake lashes in post :-(
Dec 05 12 02:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dannielle Levan
Posts: 12,857
New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada


SKITA Studios wrote:
ok...this is a first for me...I didn't notice the model had clumpy mascara/lashes before the shoot (noticed a slight amount when the MUA was putting it on, but nowhere near as bad as I see when looking at the beauty shots zoomed in)-:

How do you retouchers fix this?  They're clumped enough that it's hard to photoshop them out because it's a fairly big area over a complicated area (the eyelids).  I tried adding some drawn lashes and then blurring/blending them in, but I keep seeing the clumped lashes :-P
It's almost better if there were no mascara or lashes so I could just glue on fake lashes in post :-(

I've essentially painted over them and replaced it with a very realistic brush version. Wish I could remember the name; I got them off Deviantart. Very helpful though.

Dec 05 12 02:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Strangekitty wrote:
I've essentially painted over them and replaced it with a very realistic brush version. Wish I could remember the name; I got them off Deviantart. Very helpful though.

The eyelash brushes I have are off Devianart as well.

Didn't think about painting over them...seems like a lot of complicated area to clone over without getting something that looks like patches are missing unless I use lashes that cover the messed up areas..

Dec 05 12 03:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


SKITA Studios wrote:
They're clumped enough that it's hard to photoshop them out because it's a fairly big area over a complicated area (the eyelids).

I've fixed clumpy lashes before, but the devil is always in the details. It would be better if you showed rather than just described the problem.

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/retouch46/Forums/lashes.gif

Dec 05 12 03:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Peano wrote:
It would be better if you showed rather than just described the problem.

Wow...that was a horrible pic you started with :-O
The end result doesn't quite look right though...the lashes aren't thick enough.  You just cloned out the old lashes, then healing brush on the area?

Here's what I have to start with:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-obi9li04Y6o/UMAYxtjyFCI/AAAAAAAAJ5s/PNDcwaanbaY/s1382/ClumpyLashes.jpg

Dec 05 12 08:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Sofia Zasheva
Posts: 154
Sofia, Sofija grad, Bulgaria


I'd suggest clone stamping over the thickest parts, it's not even necessary to remove the whole thing. Keep the roots and then if you can't paint new ones take some of the thin ones and copy them in the empty spaces. Just keep changing size a bit or the angle so they don't look like copies.
Dec 06 12 03:37 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


SKITA Studios wrote:
The end result doesn't quite look right though...the lashes aren't thick enough.

They're thick enough for me. That's a subjective judgment call, and the client just might have a say in the matter. smile

You just cloned out the old lashes, then healing brush on the area?

Clone, heal, paint, whatever it takes to rebuild whatever the lashes are currently obscuring.
You have to work really small (~400% zoom) and make lots of very tiny changes to avoid
creating repetitions.

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/retouch46/Forums/lashes2.gif

Dec 06 12 05:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Thanks Peano and Sofia.  Will give that a shot.  Maybe it's not as bad as it looks...just needed some hope that it's possible :-)
Dec 06 12 11:23 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


SKITA Studios wrote:
Thanks Peano and Sofia.  Will give that a shot.  Maybe it's not as bad as it looks...just needed some hope that it's possible :-)

As someone mentioned earlier, you don't have to perfectly remove the old lashes,
because a lot of the lid near the eye will be covered up by the new lashes. There
are tons of free brushes available, though you
might get better results by painting them in yourself.

Here are a few examples, just for fun, using brushes (upper only) ...

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/retouch46/Forums/newlashes.gif

Dec 06 12 12:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Mike Needham Retouching
Posts: 369
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


Please God, don't use brushes, unless for web usage.
Dec 06 12 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Peano wrote:
Here are a few examples, just for fun, using brushes (upper only) ...

Tried using brushes w/o luck before posting.  I got a similar result...they just looked like they didn't fit because they were too fuzzy and the MUA wants to use it in prints she hands out, so they're out :-P

I've done copy/paste/rescale/mask of lashes before...just never had so little to copy/paste from.  Will post my results when I get it done over the weekend...

Dec 07 12 12:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Megan E Griscom
Posts: 444
Bordentown, New Jersey, US


Mike Needham Retouching wrote:
Please God, don't use brushes, unless for web usage.

lol...i always get a kick out our sense of humour.

Dec 07 12 01:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Megan E Griscom
Posts: 444
Bordentown, New Jersey, US


Megan E Griscom wrote:
lol...i always get a kick out our sense of humour.

But yea, brushes always look like brushes. If its not too close up or a web image they will probably suffice though.

I dont know why that posted twice...sorry.

Dec 07 12 01:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


SKITA Studios wrote:
Tried using brushes w/o luck before posting.  I got a similar result...they just looked like they didn't fit because they were too fuzzy and the MUA wants to use it in prints she hands out, so they're out :-P

I just tried them for grins. Never used them on a paid job. I would draw them in, one lash at a time.

Dec 07 12 02:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


And answer was....copy and paste! 
It's amazing how many colors actually happen in eyelashes.  Drawing them in and blurring just didn't look right either.  I had forgotten I needed to do the copy/paste thing a while back because I didn't have a MUA whoops until now so I guess I've been lucky.

Also used cloning at 60% opacity to unclump some of the lashes, but I'm happy overall finally.  Thanks for kicking me out of the "damn it's hopeless" rut :-)

Here's a crop of my finished image after eye tweaks and skin/makeup cleanup:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D1e2ap--t0U/UMNbTSPF_ZI/AAAAAAAAJ6E/6aDzIUe1Fiw/s902/ClumpLashesFixed.jpg
Dec 08 12 07:26 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Benski
Posts: 997
London, England, United Kingdom


Quality looks great, but they're not fanning out in a very natural fashion around the sides ... Looks kind of like she's been stood horizontal in a wind tunnel

Personally, I probably wouldn't fix them ... I'd put the image somewhere public and just let it annoy me ... channel that emotion into disciplining MUAs in the future

I always say, with beauty, you want the MUA coming on to adjust every couple of shots - tether and check every 6 shots on a big display that there aren't makeup problems, because 30 seconds of mistake on set = 3 hours of correcting stuck on a computer, and never looks quite right
Dec 08 12 08:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
richy01
Posts: 153
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands


SKITA Studios wrote:
And answer was....copy and paste! 
It's amazing how many colors actually happen in eyelashes.  Drawing them in and blurring just didn't look right either.  I had forgotten I needed to do the copy/paste thing a while back because I didn't have a MUA whoops until now so I guess I've been lucky.

Also used cloning at 60% opacity to unclump some of the lashes, but I'm happy overall finally.  Thanks for kicking me out of the "damn it's hopeless" rut :-)

Here's a crop of my finished image after eye tweaks and skin/makeup cleanup:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D1e2ap--t0U/UMNbTSPF_ZI/AAAAAAAAJ6E/6aDzIUe1Fiw/s902/ClumpLashesFixed.jpg

They look pretty good ...smile I used some brushes the other day and used warp/puppetwarp to place and form them exactly where I wanted them, worked quite well...but just drawing them is the best solution

Dec 08 12 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


Benski wrote:
Quality looks great, but they're not fanning out in a very natural fashion around the sides ...

I recall reading a tutorial once that said when you sketch in lashes, imagine lines radiating from the
center of the pupil, and sketch roughly along those lines ...

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/retouch46/Forums/arrows.gif

EDIT: One way you can make lashes taper is to set the brush
size jitter to fade, then experiment with the number of pixels
to get the right lengths.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1992/fade2.jpg

Dec 08 12 08:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Benski wrote:
Quality looks great, but they're not fanning out in a very natural fashion around the sides ... Looks kind of like she's been stood horizontal in a wind tunnel

LOL...very true.  I was just trying to match the curvature of the lashes that are there even though the curvature was a bit odd.
And I didn't tether...kicked myself for getting the DOF wrong too...there's necklace around her neck that isn't in focus that isn't, even at f/8 on APS-C which I thought was plenty and looked fine on the rear LCD.
Live and learn.  I think I'll leave the wind tunnel lashes as a reminder.  4 more images to edit w/ clumped lashes.  Sigh.  Lessons learned are lessons earned :-P

Dec 08 12 07:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Peano wrote:
EDIT: One way you can make lashes taper is to set the brush
size jitter to fade, then experiment with the number of pixels
to get the right lengths.

Nice technique.  Wish you could jitter the color from a bunch of samples.  The drawn ones just don't seem to have the right color...I think it's something funky about how the mascara works on her blond lashes because it's not even coverage.  If her lashes were black, drawn ones might work better...

Dec 08 12 07:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Peano
Posts: 4,106
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


SKITA Studios wrote:
Nice technique.  Wish you could jitter the color from a bunch of samples.

Here's one way to add color: Draw the lashes on a blank layer. Clip another
blank layer to that and paint on whatever colors you want. I'm deliberately
using funky colors to illustrate, so they're easy to see. But you could
lightly paint on any colors you wanted.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8821/lashescolor.jpg

Dec 08 12 07:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
richy01
Posts: 153
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands


Peano wrote:

Here's one way to add color: Draw the lashes on a blank layer. Clip another
blank layer to that and paint on whatever colors you want. I'm deliberately
using funky colors to illustrate, so they're easy to see. But you could
lightly paint on any colors you wanted.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8821/lashescolor.jpg

amazing tip, thanks. I tried it out on a bad mascaraday model, works like a charm

Dec 08 12 11:57 pm  Link  Quote 
  Search   Reply