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Photographer
Chris Dhames
Posts: 336
Santa Maria, California, US


So Hannity spotlights a fight in a New York subway where a homeless guy pushes a short asian man onto the train tracks and no one on the platform helps out -the guys ends up dying after the train hits him. 

Hannity invites a "guardian angel" (a subway vigilante basically) onto his show who bashes everyone on the platform for not helping the guy out then goes on to lecture the audience and Hannity is nodding and agreeing and the whole time i'm thinking...

..what a jerk.  If Hannity was standing on that platform he'd sit there with a dumb look on his face watching everything unfold just like every other sorry bystander that day.
Dec 05 12 07:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
j3_photo
Posts: 18,613
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Chris Dhames wrote:
So Hannity spotlights a fight in a New York subway where a homeless guy pushes a short asian man onto the train tracks and no one on the platform helps out -the guys ends up dying after the train hits him. 

Hannity invites a "guardian angel" (a subway vigilante basically) onto his show who bashes everyone on the platform for not helping the guy out then goes on to lecture the audience and Hannity is nodding and agreeing and the whole time i'm thinking...

..what a jerk.  If Hannity was standing on that platform he'd sit there with a dumb look on his face watching everything unfold just like every other sorry bystander that day.

So the photographer just took pics/video and didn't help the Asian guy?  Total bashing deserved. 

Love how you assume things about Hannity.  Great OP-  NOT.

Dec 05 12 07:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MN Photography
Posts: 868
Chicago, Illinois, US


j3_photo wrote:

So the photographer just took pics/video and didn't help the Asian guy?  Total bashing deserved. 

Love how you assume things about Hannity.  Great OP-  NOT.

Of course Hannity would have sprung into action.  His training as a member of the Special Forces would have kicked in.  Wait, Hannity was never in the military.  Then maybe his law enforcement training.  No, he doesn't have that either.  Paramedic training?  Nope again.  Experience as a Guardian Angel?  He didn't have that either.

I think it's pretty safe to say that if he was in that situation, Sean Hannity would have just stood there like all the other people.

Dec 05 12 07:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
j3_photo
Posts: 18,613
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


MN Photography wrote:

Of course Hannity would have sprung into action.  His training as a member of the Special Forces would have kicked in.  Wait, Hannity was never in the military.  Then maybe his law enforcement training.  No, he doesn't have that either.  Paramedic training?  Nope again.  Experience as a Guardian Angel?  He didn't have that either.

I think it's pretty safe to say that if he was in that situation, Sean Hannity would have just stood there like all the other people.

It's safe to say that people on the internet should stop assuming what one would/wouldn't do.

Dec 05 12 07:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MN Photography
Posts: 868
Chicago, Illinois, US


j3_photo wrote:

It's safe to say that people on the internet should stop assuming what one would/wouldn't do.

We don't need these forums then.

Dec 05 12 07:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
j3_photo
Posts: 18,613
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


MN Photography wrote:
We don't need these forums then.

No we don't need certain threads and/or assumptions smile

and ftr- every person who stood there should be bashed to no end for not doing anything.

Dec 05 12 07:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Edwards
Posts: 16,738
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, US


Chris Dhames wrote:
... If Hannity was standing on that platform he'd sit there with a dumb look on his face watching everything unfold just like every other sorry bystander that day.

Hmm, now you just don't know that to be a fact, do you?

I wonder what I think you'd do in a similar situation...

Dec 05 12 07:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Dhames
Posts: 336
Santa Maria, California, US


Jay  Edwards wrote:
Hmm, now you just don't know that to be a fact, do you?

I wonder what I think you'd do in a similar situation...

lol, please...  Hannity jumping to the rescue?  He'd be more afraid of scuffing his shoe.

...and I would have helped.  but i'm trained to.

Dec 05 12 07:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


j3_photo wrote:

It's safe to say that people on the internet should stop assuming what one would/wouldn't do.

yeah, really.

Some folks  project a lot.

Dec 05 12 07:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Edwards
Posts: 16,738
Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, US


Chris Dhames wrote:

lol, please...  Hannity jumping to the rescue?  He'd be more afraid of scuffing his shoe.

...and I would have helped.  but i'm trained to.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about...

Dec 05 12 08:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bill Sylvester
Posts: 1,446
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


Hannity wouldn't be on a subway. He'll be in his limo.
Dec 05 12 08:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RennsportPhotography
Posts: 16,867
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US


In every forum I have seen the photographer was criticised for taking photos instead of helping. I guess if they knew they were agreeing with Sean everyone would change their position.
Dec 05 12 08:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jay Dezelic
Posts: 4,526
Seattle, Washington, US


Robert Helm wrote:
In every forum I have seen the photographer was criticised for taking photos instead of helping. I guess if they knew they were agreeing with Sean everyone would change their position.

If the photo becomes evidence that you had an opportunity to help, but didn't, there could be blame and at least civil liability.

I think there still is a decent percentage of people who would come to the aid of a person in distress.  Unfortunately for the victim, there were none ready, willing and close enough to help.

With today's growing entitlement mentality, there are fewer people who are willing to help others as it is now considered to be the job of government to help people.

Dec 05 12 08:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
j3_photo
Posts: 18,613
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Dec 05 12 09:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Makeup Artist
T
Posts: 53,533
Washington, District of Columbia, US


So tragic, I wish a couple folks had given him a hand. His family will have continued nightmares. Tragic.
Dec 05 12 09:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Art of CIP
Posts: 21,234
Long Beach, California, US


T wrote:
So tragic, I wish a couple folks had given him a hand. His family will have continued nightmares. Tragic.

I agree.  It wouldn't have took much.  If just one person had just stood next to the man, hos attacker would have been out numbered 2:1...  Such a senseless death.  But at least they caught the killer.

Dec 05 12 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sublime LightWorks
Posts: 6,019
Atlanta, Georgia, US


MN Photography wrote:

We don't need these forums then.

Actually, what we don't need are postings like yours. Frankly, while I dislike Hannity, the opinion you expressed was totally void of value and based on nothing factual. One could have said something similar about your possible response. It would have been equally worthless.

Dec 06 12 05:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sublime LightWorks
Posts: 6,019
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Chris Dhames wrote:

lol, please...  Hannity jumping to the rescue?  He'd be more afraid of scuffing his shoe.

...and I would have helped.  but i'm trained to.

Yeah, right, sure, because we have your word for it.

Dec 06 12 05:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Russian Katarina II
Posts: 2,515
London, England, United Kingdom


Jay Dezelic wrote:
I think there still is a decent percentage of people who would come to the aid of a person in distress.  Unfortunately for the victim, there were none ready, willing and close enough to help.
[cutting out usual drivel about government]

The bystander effect is a well established phenomenom that transcends "today" as it even transcends wholly different cultures. Remember that little Chinese kid last year that was run over by multiple cars and then left to die on the streets with dozens of people walking by and not a single person doing a thing?

That's just human nature. When people are alone, they're far more likely to step up and step in than when they're in a group in which the responsibility is diffused.

You never know how you're gonna react if you are in such a situation. Especially when you could put yourself at risk by intervening. Chances are, four out of five people in this thread would have stood idly by in this case.

Everyday heroes like Wesley Autrey are the exception. That's why they're called heroes. Few people are made like that.

Dec 06 12 05:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 50,250
Buena Park, California, US


MN Photography wrote:
I think it's pretty safe to say that if he was in that situation, Sean Hannity would have just stood there like all the other people.

Maybe, maybe not.  I could stereotype him to be all talk.  wouldn't surprise me in the least.  But I honestly know very very very little about him and have no clue as to what he'd actually do.

I don't even know what I'd do.  I'd like to think I'd try to help.  I know I wouldn't have been taking photos though.  Not judging the photographer (though it seems questionable) but it's not an instinct I have.

Dec 06 12 09:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 50,250
Buena Park, California, US


Jay Dezelic wrote:

If the photo becomes evidence that you had an opportunity to help, but didn't, there could be blame and at least civil liability.

I think there still is a decent percentage of people who would come to the aid of a person in distress.  Unfortunately for the victim, there were none ready, willing and close enough to help.

With today's growing entitlement mentality, there are fewer people who are willing to help others as it is now considered to be the job of government to help people.

I'm going to disagree with this.  I don't think anyone should be legally obligated to help someone else in danger.  ESPECIALLY if that could place the would be hero's life in danger.

Dec 06 12 09:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tropic Light
Posts: 6,291
Kailua, Hawaii, US


Perhaps a review of the EXIF data from the photo could reveal the distance that the photographer was from the victim at the moment the shutter engaged, but it still couldn't tell you the speed of the train, or the time until impact.  It also couldn't tell you how fast the photographer could have moved into position, gotten the attention of the victim, and lifted him off the tracks, or if the photographer was physically fit enough to have done that.  The photographer captured a moment in time, and had no way of knowing that the man was about to die.  It pisses me off when morons jump to conclusions based on their misguided assumptions.
Dec 07 12 12:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
255 West
Posts: 6,061
New York, New York, US


j3_photo wrote:
So the photographer just took pics/video and didn't help the Asian guy?  Total bashing deserved. 

Love how you assume things about Hannity.  Great OP-  NOT.

Love how you assume things about the photographer.

He was apparently flashing his strobe at the train to try to get the driver's attention. He didn't even set the camera before he "shot" repeatedly in the direction of the oncoming train, which, from the photographer's vantage, was in position to photograph the train and the victim.

These "deaths by subway" have been steady at about 50 people a year for many years. If it weren't for the picture, this incident wouldn't have gotten even 1% of the attention it has. People are discussing this tragedy all around the world, and the victim, the circumstances, and the implications of this tragedy would have receded into the fog of another invisible statistic.

Dec 08 12 08:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vivus Hussein Denuo
Posts: 62,161
New York, New York, US


I took a seminar with the news photog who took the famous picture of Robert Kennedy lying on the floor after being shot by Sirhan Sirhan.  The photog said he was often asked, "How could you stand there taking a picture?  Why didn't you help?"

He said, his job as a photog was to take the picture.  A news photog waits his whole life for that moment.  If, when it comes, he drops his camera and joins the crowd of onlookers, he has no business calling himself a photographer.

Odd that so many photogs on this site seem to have a problem with that viewpoint.  Well, maybe they see themselves as simultaneously taking the shot and leaping into action and saving the day.  Like Mighty Mouse.
Dec 08 12 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Top Level Studio
Posts: 3,208
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada


Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote:
Odd that so many photogs on this site seem to have a problem with that viewpoint.  Well, maybe they see themselves as simultaneously taking the shot and leaping into action and saving the day.  Like Mighty Mouse.

Or Peter Parker/Spiderman.

Dec 08 12 09:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vivus Hussein Denuo
Posts: 62,161
New York, New York, US


Top Level Studio wrote:

Or Peter Parker/Spiderman.

Yup.

Dec 08 12 09:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MN Photography
Posts: 868
Chicago, Illinois, US


sublime LightWorks wrote:

Actually, what we don't need are postings like yours. Frankly, while I dislike Hannity, the opinion you expressed was totally void of value and based on nothing factual. One could have said something similar about your possible response. It would have been equally worthless.

Hannity was the one sitting there on TV shaking his head judging the photographer, not me.

Dec 08 12 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cuica Cafezinho
Posts: 5,869
Madison, Wisconsin, US


Jay Dezelic wrote:
With today's growing entitlement mentality, there are fewer people who are willing to help others as it is now considered to be the job of government to help people.

Yeah, that's it. They all stood around waiting for their food stamps while they watched another person die thinking it's the governments job to help him.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Dec 08 12 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Damon Banner
Posts: 83,631
Hayward, California, US


Cuica Cafezinho wrote:

Yeah, that's it. They all stood around waiting for their food stamps while they watched another person die thinking it's the governments job to help him.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

it's Obama's fault

Dec 08 12 09:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 32,469
Columbus, Ohio, US


Jay Dezelic wrote:

If the photo becomes evidence that you had an opportunity to help, but didn't, there could be blame and at least civil liability.

I think there still is a decent percentage of people who would come to the aid of a person in distress.  Unfortunately for the victim, there were none ready, willing and close enough to help.

With today's growing entitlement mentality, there are fewer people who are willing to help others as it is now considered to be the job of government to help people.

You ought consider doing this.
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121115/19/50a5b4a655984_m.jpg

Dec 08 12 10:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mnemosyne Photography
Posts: 7,121
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Jay Dezelic wrote:
If the photo becomes evidence that you had an opportunity to help, but didn't, there could be blame and at least civil liability.

I think there still is a decent percentage of people who would come to the aid of a person in distress.  Unfortunately for the victim, there were none ready, willing and close enough to help.

With today's growing entitlement mentality, there are fewer people who are willing to help others as it is now considered to be the job of government to help people.

Many famous photographers have maintained their objectivity even when they could help. Some famous war photos are the result of a photographer not interfering. The debate of is this ethical, or inhumane, is still going in journalism classes today.

You'd be surprised how many claim they would have helped.

It's not entitlement and expecting the government to fix everything. That's a completely different argument and has zero to do with this discussion.

This is the result of diffusion of responsibility, not entitlement. The idea that people are less likely to respond/help when multiple people are present, aka the Bystander effect. Please know what you're talking about before you talk about it.

Also, just because there are samaritan and good citizen laws that protect people from getting in trouble, that doesn't mean they can't get in trouble in civil court and not be sued.

God Bless 'Murica; the only place where it's against the law not to help a person in trouble, but where you can get sued for doing it.

Lastly, you can think that a good amount of people would help, but based on experiments, and statistics, you would be wrong.

Dec 08 12 10:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Docta Shock Photografix
Posts: 1,653
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Love how you assume things about the photographer.

He was apparently flashing his strobe at the train to try to get the driver's attention.

lol, are you serious!!!??? Do u really believe that? A camera flash instead of running towards the train waving his arms? I laughed when I first heard that weak excuse.

Dec 09 12 12:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mnemosyne Photography
Posts: 7,121
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


Docta Shock Photografix wrote:

Love how you assume things about the photographer.

He was apparently flashing his strobe at the train to try to get the driver's attention.

lol, are you serious!!!??? Do u really believe that? A camera flash instead of running towards the train waving his arms? I laughed when I first heard that weak excuse.

Can you say with 100% certainty that you've acted rationally and properly in every stressful situation you've ever been in?

I'm sure waving hands while at a train stop will look like anyone else waving their hands.

Dec 09 12 04:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:

You ought consider doing this.
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121115/19/50a5b4a655984_m.jpg

do you have permission to use that image?

Dec 09 12 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


So Hannity spotlights a fight in a New York subway where a homeless guy pushes a short asian man onto the train tracks .

Newsflash...

New York subway killer of Ki Suk Han is Naeem Davis, a Muslim ...

www.fireandreamitchell.com
2 days ago – New York subway killer of Ki Suk Han is Naeem Davis, a Muslim, visited Mosques daily. ksmjk0 So did Naeem Davis go on a Jihad.......
Dec 09 12 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


a) the guy that pushed the guy onto the tracks was still standing there, maybe he push you too

fight/flight mode

b) did anyone look at the EXIF data on the photo? was the photographer 10 feet away or 100 feet away? does anyone know this

very judgmental people, all talking about bystander syndrome or lack of humanity, not having enough facts

I am giving just an ounce more benefit of the doubt from my own observations
Dec 09 12 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mnemosyne Photography
Posts: 7,121
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
a) the guy that pushed the guy onto the tracks was still standing there, maybe he push you too

fight/flight mode

b) did anyone look at the EXIF data on the photo? was the photographer 10 feet away or 100 feet away? does anyone know this

very judgmental people, all talking about bystander syndrome or lack of humanity, not having enough facts

I am giving just an ounce more benefit of the doubt from my own observations

Actually, I was using bystander effect to explain why NO ONE helped, not just a photographer.

Dec 09 12 06:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


Mnemosyne Photography wrote:

Actually, I was using bystander effect to explain why NO ONE helped, not just a photographer.

I wasn't singling you out

Dec 09 12 07:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
255 West
Posts: 6,061
New York, New York, US


Vivus Hussein Denuo wrote:
I took a seminar with the news photog who took the famous picture of Robert Kennedy lying on the floor after being shot by Sirhan Sirhan.  The photog said he was often asked, "How could you stand there taking a picture?  Why didn't you help?"

He said, his job as a photog was to take the picture.  A news photog waits his whole life for that moment.  If, when it comes, he drops his camera and joins the crowd of onlookers, he has no business calling himself a photographer.

Odd that so many photogs on this site seem to have a problem with that viewpoint.  Well, maybe they see themselves as simultaneously taking the shot and leaping into action and saving the day.  Like Mighty Mouse.

Bill Eppridge was the photographer, and as I recall the story, a woman standing behind him saw him raise his camera to his eye, she grabbed his elbow and said "no, don't it, it's not right", then Epridge snapped his elbow from the woman's grip and said: "Hey, lady, this is history!"

http://www.artnet.com/artwork_images_424079904_373124_bill-eppridge.jpg

Dec 09 12 07:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
255 West
Posts: 6,061
New York, New York, US


SAND DIAL wrote:
So Hannity spotlights a fight in a New York subway where a homeless guy pushes a short asian man onto the train tracks .

Newsflash...

New York subway killer of Ki Suk Han is Naeem Davis, a Muslim ...

www.fireandreamitchell.com
2 days ago – New York subway killer of Ki Suk Han is Naeem Davis, a Muslim, visited Mosques daily. ksmjk0 So did Naeem Davis go on a Jihad.......

How disgusting!
Would his religion have been mentioned if he was another religion?

"New York subway killer of Ki Suk Han is Moshe Lipshiz, a JEW, visited temple daily."

"So did Naeem Davis go on a Jihad when he pushed Ki Suk Han on to the New York subway tracks and killed him? Was it a part of his holy war or something? I wonder if he yelled Allahu Ackbar before pushing Ki Suk Han on to the tracks. Davis showed no emotion at all, and blamed the murder on the victim. Oh, and the Muslim Davis also said he was high on pot. Aren’t Muslims not allowed to be doing pot? Naeem Davis also said he usually visits a mosques daily.
http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/wp-content/gallery/terrorist-scum/thumbs/thumbs_ksmjk0.jpg"Now that’s been revealed that Naeem Davis is a devout Muslim, the media will portray him as the victim."


(Say what?)

Dec 09 12 08:10 pm  Link  Quote 
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