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Photographer
Julia Gerace
Posts: 1,889
Monroe, Connecticut, US


When I'm at my wits end with something, I always ask here --- you all have been great before with a variety of answers and I hope you'll help me out again...

This is been beaten to death over the years but it's still something that comes up for me:

do you give away a disk of all the hi-res images (unretouched) from a paid session.

I've done so much research and I know that there are arguments for it both ways -- Personally, I do not release any unedited files - my cost covers the shoot, online proofing and two retouched files.. additional files=additional cost.

My thought behind it is that by limiting the number of files (or attaching a cost) clients will be more careful with their choices and pick the cream of the crop rather than choosing all willynilly...  also, it protects me - if they have strays/dark circles/blemishes and they use it unretouched, if someone asks 'who did it' they won't say 'oh, this is unedited from jg' they will just say it's from me and when I see another photographers work with flaws, the first thing I think is 'why didn't they fix that' etc etc...  also, it protects from a client using either their own retouching or someone who is not very good at retouching and again, protects my brand...

some agencies have been demanding a disk of all unretouched hi-res files saying that they need to be able to pick and choose for each submission - to which I say bs and also, I would think that the client would also like to have some control over what gets used....I just don't see it...

however, I do know that some photographers have no problem with this...

Please help me out to understand how you feel to give a disk with unretouched files out with a session...and if you feel it has had a positive or a negative impact...

thanks!

Julia
Dec 06 12 10:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ForeverFotos
Posts: 6,628
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


I don't know if you've ever heard of Murphy's Law, but I'm a big believer in it. Murphy's Law states that "If anything can go wrong, it will" I'm such a big believer that I have developed my own corollary to that law, it states that "If anything bad can happen, it will happen to me"

Releasing unedited work, according to Murphy's Law, virtually guarantees that your very worst unedited photo will end up in front of your most important, and most finicky, client. That client will then decide to blackball you forever, and they will make a lifelong effort to make sure you "never work in that town again".

In short, listen to your survival instincts and continue to release only your very best work. Let the other guy (who releases unedited stuff) ruin his own life.
Dec 06 12 10:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Julia Gerace
Posts: 1,889
Monroe, Connecticut, US


that is exactly how I feel! my luck entirely!!!
Dec 06 12 10:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Managing Light
Posts: 1,900
Salem, Virginia, US


My experience has been that if you give a model an image that you're not going to be proud of, there is a very high probability that it's going to show up in her port or Facebook page.  It's not guaranteed, because the model may not like it.

I no longer give away unprocessed images, and I choose what images are going to be processed.

The agency issue I can't speak to, but it sounds like a tough dilemma.
Dec 06 12 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
annie lomowitz
Posts: 257
WOODY CREEK, Colorado, US


I never give out the entire shoot.
Never have. When I assisted, none of the photographers did either.

That said, in none of these instances were we working for agencies. My clients are, and always have been art directors, photo editors, etc. These people would no more ask for " the whole enchilada" than they would ask for the guts from the fish they had at the Sushi bar.

Just sayin
Dec 06 12 11:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GCobb Photography
Posts: 15,894
Southaven, Mississippi, US


Julia Gerace wrote:
do you give away a disk of all the hi-res images (unretouched) from a paid session.

The only way someone will get unedited hi-res images from me is if it's a work for hire or they pay an ass ton of money and don't put my name on any of it.

Dec 06 12 11:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Maybe it's semantics but "all the hi-res images from the shoot" means "all the images I'm going to share with the client from that shoot."

That means all those files are whittled down through the normal review process to the ones that I can live with being out there.

If I snap the shutter 200 times NO client is getting 200 images. It may be 50 and it may be more. Those 50 meet my absolute minimum criteria for exposure.

Every client I've worked with has understood how that works and wouldn't want to be scrolling through the 200 images to determine which need to be deleted for whatever reason...that's my job and they're appreciative that it is.

I think you're hearing the word "all" and getting hung up on it. It means they just want a larger sample size than what you might normally present for final selection. Give them a few extra images to feel part of the selection process. They just want to feel relevant and involved.

YOU define what "all" means.
Dec 06 12 11:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


these situations could be avoided during the soft proofing portion of the shoot. Or use an online client proofing site ...
Dec 06 12 11:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtisticGlamour
Posts: 3,846
Phoenix, Arizona, US


For a paid shoot I provide "all" the Images (I choose), AFTER I clean out all the misfires and bad-poses, etc. (about 50+/- JPEG images in a typical 2hr shoot...unretouched...but good JPEGs from the camera). Misfires and bad poses get shitcanned. I may "tweak" a little if I'm in the mood.

So, I'm still the one that's controlling -which- images are going out as a final product. The client just gets plenty to choose from, and I give permission for them to be retouched/printed as they see fit. They PAID for them.

I pretty much consider "paid" shoots as similar to a "work-for-hire" ($60-80/hr, depending upon the "difficulty") arrangement -except- I get "first pass" to shitcan the ones I don't like, and keep for my portfolio a couple I do like. So, I don't have to "proof" them for the client, or print them. Win-win.

They buy the finished DVD (with my permissions), and I'm DONE. Cheers! It's a very good deal for both the client, and for myself.

NO weddings/no thanks! MY location, and low-stress FUN stuff only. Models, Familys, pets, etc.

I do NOT provide the RAW files...just HiRes JPEGS. Unless, the client(s) is easy to work with and I'm in a good mood...and they specifically ask for the RAW image files. Usually NOT.

I avoid paid shoots as much as possible! wink
Dec 06 12 12:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,633
Seattle, Washington, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Maybe it's semantics but "all the hi-res images from the shoot" means "all the images I'm going to share with the client from that shoot."

That means all those files are whittled down through the normal review process to the ones that I can live with being out there.

If I snap the shutter 200 times NO client is getting 200 images. It may be 50 and it may be more. Those 50 meet my absolute minimum criteria for exposure.

Every client I've worked with has understood how that works and wouldn't want to be scrolling through the 200 images to determine which need to be deleted for whatever reason...that's my job and they're appreciative that it is.

I think you're hearing the word "all" and getting hung up on it. It means they just want a larger sample size than what you might normally present for final selection. Give them a few extra images to feel part of the selection process. They just want to feel relevant and involved.

YOU define what "all" means.

well said.

Dec 06 12 12:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,450
Orlando, Florida, US


With all due respect, you need not concern yourself with how I choose to do my business.
Dec 06 12 12:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,420
Salem, Oregon, US


there are a million ways to do it. partly it depends on what works best for you and also what your competitors are doing.

on our senior shoots we will provide a session CD once they have purchased $100 in products (the base package includes 10 retouched images). the files on the session CD are edited but not fully retouched. with some girls they hardly need any retouching but of course others have a lot of acne and other skin issues.

for us we're willing to let out images that haven't been fully retouched but we try to hold them hostage to get better sales. others will say 25-35 images on CD and leave it at that.

basically you're trying to find a formula that does two things:
1) gets people in the door
2) gets them to leave as much money as possible behind when they leave
Dec 06 12 12:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,846
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Depends on the shoot in many cases...develop a standard package (s) but leave enough room to be flexible.

For senior shoots I do a max of 100. I allow for a little extra here and there.

For commercial work, in most cases the client or rep is right there in the studio and they are making the selects as they pop up. I review those and cull the unsuitable shots later before delivering the files in whatever condition was agreed to beforehand. Sometimes they want the raw files, other times TIFFs with basic edits ready for their own DA or retoucher...and sometimes it's jpegs.

For weddings I stop around 700 and nobody gets the original files. They get edits output to PRINT ready files and WEB use respectively. I leave a little room for them to choose alternates for the albums etc.

For engagements it's 30 images edit (jpeg).

You have to find your own rhythm with this stuff according to your market. Just know that you have to weigh your time vs $$ in determining "how much" to give.
Dec 06 12 12:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leonard Gee Photography
Posts: 16,294
Sacramento, California, US


Dec 06 12 12:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Julia Gerace
Posts: 1,889
Monroe, Connecticut, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
With all due respect, you need not concern yourself with how I choose to do my business.

then you needn't have bothered responding...

Dec 06 12 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhillipM
Posts: 6,460
Martin, Tennessee, US


Dec 06 12 01:50 pm  Link  Quote 
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