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first12
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 27,194
Portland, Oregon, US


salvatori. wrote:
Maybe I am stupid, but I can't really understand a thing you are saying.

That's unfortunate.

salvatori. wrote:
If I ask you a question and you dismiss it as irrelevant, where's the 'discussion' you were talking about?

You would certainly be entitled to ask why the question was dismissed, and that subsequent question could either be dismissed or answered, and so on.

That's a discussion.

Dec 09 12 01:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 3,762
State College, Pennsylvania, US


kickfight wrote:

salvatori. wrote:
Maybe I am stupid, but I can't really understand a thing you are saying.

That's unfortunate.


You would certainly be entitled to ask why the question was dismissed, and that subsequent question could either be dismissed or answered, and so on.

That's a discussion.

Sorry, not going to play this game. Do want to thank you for reminding me why the MM fora is a more frustrating experience than talking to my ex-wife.

Dec 09 12 01:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 27,194
Portland, Oregon, US


salvatori. wrote:
Maybe I am stupid, but I can't really understand a thing you are saying.
kickfight wrote:
That's unfortunate.


You would certainly be entitled to ask why the question was dismissed, and that subsequent question could either be dismissed or answered, and so on.

That's a discussion.
salvatori. wrote:
Sorry, not going to play this game. Do want to thank you for reminding me why the MM fora is a more frustrating experience than talking to my ex-wife.

If that's how you feel, that's fine. Nobody's putting a gun up to your head and forcing you to "play this game".

Oh, and I'm sorry about the ex-wife thing. That sounds unpleasant.

Dec 09 12 01:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MS Foto
Posts: 2,224
Manchester, New Hampshire, US


There is most definently a concerted and sustained effort by many to marginalize the Christmas holiday. Each year you hear of things like some school banning Christmas Carols and Nativity displays or some municipality referring to their public Christmas Tree as a “Holiday Tree” The Christmas songs I hear on the radio are always "Jingle Bells" and "Winter Wonderland" ( holiday neutral ) but never "Silent Night" or "Little Drummer Boy" ( songs that reffer to the birth of Jesus ) Heck, a couple years ago many stores even tried banning their employees from wishing customers “Merry Christmas” in the name of political correctness until the backlash raised such an uproar they reversed the policy.
  20, 30, 40 years ago there was no such occurrences, so if there’s no “War on Christmas” why do such things happen now?
   Christmas is a federal holiday. Can you just imagine the uproar if there was any effort to marginalize MLK day...?
Dec 09 12 01:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39,777
Peoria, Illinois, US


Anyone who thinks that someone celebrating something the way that makes them happy is a personal attack on them is worried way too much about what others are doing and not about what makes themselves happy.

Someone who does that has little chance for happiness themself.

Relax, do what makes you happy, and allow others to do what makes them happy.  smile
Dec 09 12 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lawrence Guy
Posts: 17,655
LAKE PEEKSKILL, New York, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
What's wrong with this picture.
[snip]

Jesus rode a dinosaur.

Dec 09 12 01:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bek Ruszin
Posts: 6,023
Levittown, Pennsylvania, US


Lawrence Guy wrote:

Jesus rode a dinosaur.

A T-Rex, to be precise.  wink

Dec 09 12 01:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
H E R B L I S H
Posts: 15,021
Orlando, Florida, US


I think there's a war on war too!
Dec 09 12 01:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,078
New York, New York, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
Jon Stewart tackles this very topic & hits the nail on the head.

Part 1:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-d … re-edition

Part 2:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-d … philosophy

Too many people trying to watch it... I don't get beyond 1:30 and then it's buffering again... sad

Dec 09 12 01:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1,631
Eureka, California, US


MS Foto wrote:
There is most definently a concerted and sustained effort by many to marginalize the Christmas holiday. Each year you hear of things like some school banning Christmas Carols and Nativity displays or some municipality referring to their public Christmas Tree as a “Holiday Tree” The Christmas songs I hear on the radio are always "Jingle Bells" and "Winter Wonderland" ( holiday neutral ) but never "Silent Night" or "Little Drummer Boy" ( songs that reffer to the birth of Jesus ) Heck, a couple years ago many stores even tried banning their employees from wishing customers “Merry Christmas” in the name of political correctness until the backlash raised such an uproar the reversed the policy.
  20, 30, 40 years ago there was no such occurrences, so if there’s no “War on Christmas” why do such things happen now?
   Christmas is a federal holiday. Can you just imagine the uproar if there was any effort to marginalize MLK day...?

What you are calling a marginalization is the opposite. It is an effort to INCLUDE as many people as possible into the celebrations of the season. There are situations where limiting celebrations to one belief discludes many other individuals and groups. That itself goes against the spirit of Christmas.

Just like marriage, Christmas does not belong to one group to decide how others must celebrate it.

Dec 09 12 02:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wildcat Photography
Posts: 1,486
Valparaiso, Indiana, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
a) she is wearing mistletoe in her hair

b) dino is a rug

Doesn't mistletoe have white berries?
She is wearing Holly...look at the leaves.

Poor Dino!

Dec 09 12 02:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wildcat Photography
Posts: 1,486
Valparaiso, Indiana, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Sorry -- I can't believe that there is a "War on Christmas" -- I have the right to live a Christian-free life, and I can stand to have less Christmas shoved down my throat.

Thoughts?

Well, LOL! 

You can always move to Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, or Saudi Arabia?

America is supposed to be about "Tolerance" of others...not control...IMHO.

Wildcat

Dec 09 12 02:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 27,194
Portland, Oregon, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
What's wrong with this picture.

The earliest recorded instance of a candy cane dates forward to the 17th century.

Dec 09 12 02:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Guss W
Posts: 10,588
Clearwater, Florida, US


Brian T Rickey wrote:
No there is not, I love Saturnalia and all are free to enjoy it.

If anyone hasn't already heard Diane Robert's version of Roman adjustment, check it out:

http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlaye … &m=5060357

Dec 09 12 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 16,797
El Segundo, California, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
I have the right to live a Christian-free life, ...

Interesting 'right' you believe you have.

Dec 09 12 02:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,078
New York, New York, US


Guss W wrote:
If anyone hasn't already heard Diane Robert's version of Roman adjustment, check it out:

http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlaye … &m=5060357

"Yo Saturnalia!

If you don't like it leave! It's Rome after all... "

Love it! smile

Dec 09 12 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Ronin_LLC
Posts: 2,012
Louisville, Kentucky, US


Christmas ads started this year the week BEFORE Halloween. Christmas specials and episodes of shows started the week of thanksgiving.

No there is no "war" on Christmas, those are just lies made up Bill O'reilly and FOXNEWS to scare their ignorance fan base into blindly following whatever they say.

Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rdLMWsB … K8f9VkWSLQ

DISCLAIMER: ignore the user name the videos are still solid and the message is dead on.
Dec 09 12 03:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
hbutz New York
Posts: 3,179
Ronkonkoma, New York, US


No, there never was a "war on Christmas."  There are many religions, faiths, beliefs which tend to unify this time of year.  For example, when a town renames the "Christmas parade" to the "Holiday parade" they are extending a hand to those of all faiths to come together.

This country was founded on the idea of freedom to observe the religion of our choosing, not just Christianity.  And, it was kinda the Christians who took over the pagan holiday of Yule to celebrate the birth of Jesus, not the other way around.

And, he was born in April, not December.

But, we are all happy to have Christians celebrate Yule with us.  Just play nice and stop watching FOX News.
Dec 09 12 03:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,078
New York, New York, US


Excellent analysis and presentation of the actual facts as completely being omitted by Fox!

Thanks for that link Ronin!

Dec 09 12 04:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Ronin_LLC
Posts: 2,012
Louisville, Kentucky, US


udor wrote:

Excellent analysis and presentation of the actual facts as completely being omitted by Fox!

Thanks for that link Ronin!

Anytime man.

Dec 09 12 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 6,105
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


There has always been a WAR about Christmas.

Ever since the first Christmas. (actually, it started just days AFTER the first Christmas when innocent toddlers and babies were massacred...)

The war is between those against Christmas (of course!) and the first six letters of Christmas.

Merry Christmas! borat

.
Dec 09 12 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,786
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Ronin_LLC wrote:
Christmas ads started this year the week BEFORE Halloween. Christmas specials and episodes of shows started the week of thanksgiving.

No there is no "war" on Christmas, those are just lies made up Bill O'reilly and FOXNEWS to scare their ignorance fan base into blindly following whatever they say.

Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rdLMWsB … K8f9VkWSLQ

DISCLAIMER: ignore the user name the videos are still solid and the message is dead on.

Awesome link.

Dec 09 12 04:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
What Fun Productions
Posts: 20,192
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Every time I hear an uber-right pundit claim that there is a war on Christmas, I cringe.

Thoughts?

Well, Ebenezer....

Dec 09 12 05:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kickfight
Posts: 27,194
Portland, Oregon, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Every time I hear an uber-right pundit claim that there is a war on Christmas, I cringe.

Thoughts?
What Fun Productions wrote:
Well, Ebenezer....

Yes, Jacob?

Dec 09 12 05:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digital Photo PLUS
Posts: 5,503
Lorton, Virginia, US


MS Foto wrote:
20, 30, 40 years ago there was no such occurrences, so if there’s no “War on Christmas” why do such things happen now?

Because there are more and more people who don't celebrate Christmas. Remember the time you could smoke everywhere? Well, as soon as the percentage of smokers dropped below 50% smoking was outlawed.

Like 60-70% of people in this country are Christians so there is like 15-20 years before public Christmas celebrations get outlawed.

Dec 10 12 12:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,178
Portland, Oregon, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Sorry -- I can't believe that there is a "War on Christmas" -- I have the right to live a Christian-free life, and I can stand to have less Christmas shoved down my throat.

Thoughts?
Wildcat Photography wrote:
Well, LOL! 

You can always move to Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, or Saudi Arabia?

America is supposed to be about "Tolerance" of others...not control...IMHO.

Wildcat

Love it or leave it, eh?  Those our only choices?

It seems to me that when conservatives complain about the "War on Christmas", it's usually after some hardcore zealots get denied the right to celebrate their particular religion on public lands using public money.  That's just not right.  I got no problem with a nativity scene on church grounds; I got a big problem with a nativity scene on public school grounds.  When the religious right get's denied the usage of public funds/grounds -- that isn't a "War On Christmas", that's American.

Dec 10 12 12:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,178
Portland, Oregon, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
I have the right to live a Christian-free life, ...
Kevin Connery wrote:
Interesting 'right' you believe you have.

Commonly known as Freedom Of Religion.  Why do you imply that I don't have that right?  What's the problem?

Dec 10 12 12:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Caradoc
Posts: 19,623
Scottsdale, Arizona, US


twoharts wrote:
i did enjoy watching rudolph the other night although the show is kind of oddly disturbing when you see it as an adult.

Not as disturbing as this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaQ6ODrQg0g

Dec 10 12 12:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MS Foto
Posts: 2,224
Manchester, New Hampshire, US


Digital Photo PLUS wrote:
Because there are more and more people who don't celebrate Christmas. Remember the time you could smoke everywhere? Well, as soon as the percentage of smokers dropped below 50% smoking was outlawed.

Like 60-70% of people in this country are Christians so there is like 15-20 years before public Christmas celebrations get outlawed.

Soooo, you agree. More people seeking to waterdown/eliminate the traditional holiday experience = War on Christmas...

(BTW, there's a war on smoking, too. Probably has something to do with the fact that it actually kills people, but I think people should be free to make their own choice )

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
What you are calling a marginalization is the opposite. It is an effort to INCLUDE as many people as possible into the celebrations of the season. There are situations where limiting celebrations to one belief discludes many other individuals and groups. That itself goes against the spirit of Christmas.

With that kind of double-talk you must also be a salesperson besides a photographer, right? Or maybe a lawyer? Politician? I guess it depends on what your meaning of the word "is" is...

Dec 10 12 04:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 16,797
El Segundo, California, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I have the right to live a Christian-free life, ...
Kevin Connery wrote:
Interesting 'right' you believe you have.

Commonly known as Freedom Of Religion.  Why do you imply that I don't have that right?  What's the problem?

What word does the first amendment start with?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

The government does not have the right to impose any religion on others, nor can they prevent those who have it from practicing it. (Absent edge cases, such as human sacrifice.)

I can do so; a private company can do so. I can tell you you can't practice your religion in my house, and they can tell you that you must tolerate their religious display on their private property--just as you can do that to/for me or on property you own.

If I choose to have a creche scene on my front lawn, you do not have the right to tell me to remove it on religious grounds, nor can the government do so.  That pretty much obviates your "right to live a Christian-free life, ...", as your "right" is based on the removal of a right they are guaranteed.

Heck, even the link you cite contradicts your claim:

Freedom of religion is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or community, in public or private, to manifest religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance;

Unless you remove Christians' rights, you don't have a "right to live a Christian-free life"--just as Christians don't have the 'right' to live an atheist-free life, a Buddhist-free life, a Jewish-free life, etc.

Dec 10 12 09:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,178
Portland, Oregon, US


Kevin Connery wrote:
Heck, even the link you cite contradicts your claim:

Unless you remove Christians' rights, you don't "right to live a Christian-free life"--just as Christians don't have the 'right' to live an atheist-free life, a Buddhist-free life, a Jewish-free life, etc.

You are splitting hairs.

I've been clear:  I don't want public lands and/or public funds used to promote any particular religion.  I don't care if other people want to celebrate whatever religion, as long as the participants are willing & no one gets hurt.  But if I choose not to be Christian, no government and no individual may force me to become one.

I can even choose to avoid becoming friends with Christians if I want.  I can go out of my way to avoid walking past a church.  I can program my DVR to avoid Christian or Christmas-based programming.  No one can stop me, now!  Bwah ha ha ha!!!

Dec 11 12 10:01 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 38,913
Columbus, Ohio, US


K E E L I N G wrote:
Maybe I'm weird, but I'm able to go through the xmas season happy and enjoying the fun and giving and cocktails and Santa and the music and... everything.... without thinking about religion one single time.

Santa doesn't preach nor carry a bible.

Oh man, we're agreeing! yikes

I don't believe in god and I LOVE Christmas for those reasons.

Dec 11 12 10:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Bunny Bombshell
Posts: 11,752
Huntington, West Virginia, US


They claim that every year, it's such a stupid thing to say
Dec 11 12 10:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Bunny Bombshell
Posts: 11,752
Huntington, West Virginia, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I have the right to live a Christian-free life, ...

Commonly known as Freedom Of Religion.  Why do you imply that I don't have that right?  What's the problem?

And this. I technically don't celebrate Christmas btw. It's Winter Solstice in my home

Dec 11 12 10:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,188
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


Christmas kicks ass
Dec 11 12 11:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,018
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
I don't mind the advertising.  I don't mind the specials.  I'm not a parent, so I don't even mind the propaganda directed towards children. 

What I find offensive is the uber-right people claiming that there is a "war against Christmas".  Seems to me that Christmas is not under attack at all.

I have found it rather easy to avoid the uber-right people myself, and have yet to hear/read anything about the 'war on xmas' this year...
Perhaps you need you watch different channels, visit different websites or associate with different people?

Dec 11 12 11:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JLC Images
Posts: 11,559
Phillipsburg, New Jersey, US


My Facebook feed is filled with people angry about Christmas.  Displays and Christmas music is sending them into fits of rage and endless amounts of complaining.

I am not religious and I love Christmas.  I love the overall vibe and am filled with good memories of past holidays.  It is nice when people come together without there being some sort of devastating event/disaster.
Dec 11 12 11:56 am  Link  Quote 
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