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Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,066
Vineland, New Jersey, US


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121206/16/50c131f804aa2_m.jpg

  Just your opinion so there are no right or wrong answers.
Dec 09 12 08:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gloria Budiman
Posts: 1,683
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


It's okay.

---- Subjective part ----
I *hate* catch-light dead center in the eyes.
Nice bokeh.
Boring style. Some rim-light might be good idea?
Dec 09 12 09:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A N D E R S O N
Posts: 2,553
Garden Grove, California, US


No, just looks like a casual snapshot with no thought put into it.
Dec 09 12 10:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 9,214
Santa Barbara, California, US


A N D E R S O N wrote:
No, just looks like a casual snapshot with no thought put into it.

ooops DP... see below

Dec 09 12 10:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 9,214
Santa Barbara, California, US


A N D E R S O N wrote:
No, just looks like a casual snapshot with no thought put into it.

+1

Try redirecting your light source if you can, it will add more depth to your subject

Dec 09 12 10:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rik Williams
Posts: 3,362
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Boring.
Personally, you should have lost the nanna cardigan, dropped the black top down off your shoulders, turned and raised your right shoulder toward the camera and the photographer should have held his lighting off camera at arms length to create something more flattering than he has.
They're just my thoughts.
Dec 10 12 12:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Not good. Stilted expression by model and she's posed squared-up to the camera. Unimaginitive one-source lighting.
Dec 10 12 02:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark
Posts: 2,889
New York, New York, US


terrible
Dec 10 12 02:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lee_Photography
Posts: 8,566
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121206/16/50c131f804aa2_m.jpg
Composition, fill the gutter, which is what the space between the models right side and photo left border is referred too. Simply crop a little off the left side of photo, the reason is the viewers eyes can wander off the photo at that gap.
Lighting looks like on camera flash
Nice background blur

My preference for shooting this image would be to reduce the head tilt, have her look square into camera and place her body on an angle to camera

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year a
Dec 10 12 04:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,066
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Mark wrote:
terrible

Why is this terrible?

Dec 10 12 06:21 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121206/16/50c131f804aa2_m.jpg

  Just your opinion so there are no right or wrong answers.

Not a shot that sells the model or you.

It looks "murky" to me. 

You lose her hair in the background.

Dec 10 12 07:04 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Rik Image wrote:
Boring.
Personally, you should have lost the nanna cardigan, dropped the black top down off your shoulders, turned and raised your right shoulder toward the camera and the photographer should have held his lighting off camera at arms length to create something more flattering than he has.
They're just my thoughts.

You are critiquing the photographer, not the model.

Dec 10 12 07:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,066
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Thank you everyone for your critiques. There are definitely points to ponder here.
Dec 10 12 08:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark
Posts: 2,889
New York, New York, US


it lacks any artistic merit.  Photos like this are taken by any parent with a cell phone. Spend some time in museums, examining fashion magazines. It boring no story going on, the lighting is harsh- double chin, its blurry, the composition is bad, you have not caught her in a good moment or directed her into one.
Dec 10 12 06:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Mark wrote:
Spend some time in museums, examining fashion magazines.

Why would anyone go to a museum to examine fashion magazines?

Dec 11 12 03:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rik Williams
Posts: 3,362
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


model emily  wrote:
You are critiquing the photographer, not the model.

lol you're funny big_smile



Same would still apply...

Dec 11 12 03:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glenn Liam Kelly
Posts: 41
Sarina, Queensland, Australia


I think the critique of the models pose is a valid one and some good concrete advice. The photographers job is to direct the model and also make choices about wardrobe hair etc. I know for me this is one area I have to work on.

The problem so far is that few respondants have given solutions only identified problems. For instance rather than pointing out the model has a double chin say how this could be fixed (e.g. have the model lean forward).

One critique of my own is the eyes. They just aren't sharp. What focusing method are you using? Have you tried selecting an AF point and placing that on the subjects eyes. Are you stable when taking the photo? With such a shallow depth of field rocking back and forth even slightly can throw of the focus.
Dec 11 12 04:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Not great, hardly even OK.

Composition and lighting are poor - I couldn't be bothered to click on it to see what the retouching is like.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Dec 11 12 04:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glenn Liam Kelly
Posts: 41
Sarina, Queensland, Australia


Try comparing it to the other photos in your port. For instance the girl in the yellow shirt or the young woman in front of the church. I think these work quite nicely in terms of telling us a story. What are you trying to say with this photo?

Also in terms of impact those two other photos work a lot better.
Dec 11 12 05:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 1,679
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:

Why is this terrible?

I would have to agree. If you said you used a Canon Elf Point-and-shoot, I would say, "nice". But not really, "portfolio worthy". You would have had a much better chance at a good photograph using ambient lighting. At least then, the shadows would have looked more natural. Using the on board flash (as evidenced by the catch lights being dead center) flattened out the image and you lost the defining shadows that would have given depth to the photo.

The framing is adequate, but I could have tightened in and eliminated the gutters between the sweater and the edge of the photo.

Dec 11 12 05:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,066
Vineland, New Jersey, US


I think this is important for everyone to know ... especially those who are talking about posing, wardrobe, etc.  This young lady isn't a model.  I met her in a shopping mall where she was working.  She had no idea when she got up that morning that she was going to be shot while she was working.

  The pose, etc ... I didn't have a lot of time as I didn't want to get her fired for something as silly as taking a single picture.  The idea behind this picture was to tell her that I am a photographer, I was/am not trying to scam her out of anything (especially money) and that with more time, we would come up with something that would be worthy of making into an extremely large size and putting it on her wall or mine.

  There were a few pictures to choose from, some natural light and some with a flash (speedlight).  The naturally lit ones made her skin look extremely gray to me ... as if she were dead.  With the flash, her skin does have a tone to it. 

  Focus: I do select an AF point and place it on one eye or the other ... I know for a fact that I don't have the world's steadiest hands and the lens I used is not an image stabilized lens.  These problems still exist when I use a tripod, though, so I'm not sure if the problem is the lens, the camera body or something else. 

  Story:  there is no story behind any of the photos I shoot.  If I see something I like, I shoot it.  If I see something I think the model/subject will like, I shoot it.  When I look at the shots others take, if no one in the image is moving (or looks like they're moving), there is no story being told to me. 

  As I said, there are some good points made here.  Some are simple (cropping out the gap between her arm and the edge of the picture) to fix.  Others are impossible in a situation like this (changing wardrobes, for instance).  Still others are only possible by spending money (getting "ideal" lighting, for instance) and having a place set up where one can use them (studio or otherwise ... this picture was shot in the middle of a shopping mall and pretty much spur of the moment ... yes, I carry my camera with me everywhere I go outside the house).
Dec 11 12 07:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


That's all nice to know, LDM, but in the end it's not about her... It's about you taking a bad snapshot of someone who doesn't know what she's doing in a place where lighting was bad and you nevertheless posting the resulting image for critique.

If this was shot was of a non-model store clerk who was trying to pose for you without getting fired, you could have said so in the OP. You'd likely still have caught the same feedback as you got, but at least we wouldn't have assumed this was a serious attempt at a fashion image. Instead, you just posted the image.

This was a massively ill-advised thread, to ask for feedback on such an ill-conceived shoot.
Dec 11 12 11:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,066
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
That's all nice to know, LDM, but in the end it's not about her... It's about you taking a bad snapshot of someone who doesn't know what she's doing in a place where lighting was bad and you nevertheless posting the resulting image for critique.

If this was shot was of a non-model store clerk who was trying to pose for you without getting fired, you could have said so in the OP. You'd likely still have caught the same feedback as you got, but at least we wouldn't have assumed this was a serious attempt at a fashion image. Instead, you just posted the image.

This was a massively ill-advised thread, to ask for feedback on such an ill-conceived shoot.

How does one decide what an ill advised thread is?  How does one decide what an ill conceived shoot is?

  Is an ill conceived shoot one that happens on a split second decision outside of an ideally lit studio?  Or is an ill conceived shoot one that happens where the results are less than ideal in someone (anyone) else's opinion?

  It's true that this thread/critique isn't or shouldn't be about the subject as she's not the one who asked the question.  Some people made it about her, though, when they commented on her wardrobe.  You're also right when you say I could've said everything in the OP but didn't. 

  The point was to ask for opinions on this ... is it good the way it is or no?  If you think the answer is no, what can be done to improve it?  Instead, there are lots of comments about what she's wearing, the lighting (that was by and large beyond my control), her hair blending into the background, etc etc. 

  Cropping the image, especially on the left side, is a valid point that can be fixed relatively easily.  Some of the other things are things to be mindful of for future reference (ie shoot from a slightly higher angle to avoid the "double chin").  Most of the rest, though .. I won't say they're not valid but they are not easily fixed or even planned for at any time. 

  I know what to do from now on, though.  Thank you. smile

Dec 11 12 11:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
I think this is important for everyone to know ... especially those who are talking about posing, wardrobe, etc.  This young lady isn't a model.  I met her in a shopping mall where she was working.  She had no idea when she got up that morning that she was going to be shot while she was working.

But that's the very problem.

The things you mention as defense of the model are exactly the reason the image doesn't work. And that all falls on you. It looks like you took a casual snapshot of the girl in the parking lot of her employment...spur of the moment with no thought or planning.

Dec 11 12 11:32 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
This young lady isn't a model.  I met her in a shopping mall where she was working.  She had no idea when she got up that morning that she was going to be shot while she was working.

  The pose, etc ... I didn't have a lot of time as I didn't want to get her fired for something as silly as taking a single picture.

...Oh.

Well, then carry on!

Dec 11 12 11:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
Instead, there are lots of comments about what she's wearing, the lighting (that was by and large beyond my control), her hair blending into the background, etc etc.

How can anything you photograph be beyond your control? It is ALL part of your responsibility and IN your control. You've made a lot of excuses to explain why the image isn't good.

No photographer can ever, with a clear conscience, say, "Well the lighting was bad and her hair blended into the background and what the model wore was lacking...but that's not my fault..." Whose fault is it? God, because he made it dark outside? The City because they placed the parking lot and lighting there the bastards!

If you think your job is to just press the shutter and pray it's going to look good you'll not often get even remotely acceptable results.

If you think lighting is "beyond your control" please just quit now. Because photography IS lighting.

Those are ALL your responsibility.

Dec 11 12 11:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RachelReilly
Posts: 1,727
Washington, District of Columbia, US


No,
Try different llama,pose, expression, shirt, lighting, hair style

And stop giving excuses about llama and wardrobe!
Dec 11 12 11:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,066
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
How can anything you photograph be beyond your control? It is ALL part of your responsibility and IN your control. You've made a lot of excuses to explain why the image isn't good.

No photographer can ever, with a clear conscience, say, "Well the lighting was bad and her hair blended into the background and what the llama wore was lacking...but that's not my fault..." Whose fault is it? God, because he made it dark outside? The City because they placed the parking lot and lighting there the bastards!

If you think your job is to just press the shutter and pray it's going to look good you'll not often get even remotely acceptable results.

If you think lighting is "beyond your control" please just quit now. Because photography IS lighting.

Those are ALL your responsibility.

What she's wearing is beyond my control because I didn't dress her.  15 minutes before this photo was shot, I had no idea she existed in the world.  Or are you saying I should've told her what to wear even though I didn't know she existed?  Or should I have just said to her ... if you want good pictures taken, come to my studio, hand her a business card and walk away knowing she'd never call? 

  I understand that photography is lighting and I'm okay with that.  If one is in a situation where the lighting isn't ideal, how does one fix it if the only thing they have with them is a speedlight?  Or does one just decline to take a picture because it might not be ideally lit?  I mean ... I'm sure everyone carries a plain white background with them everywhere they go so that a llama's hair doesn't blend into the background.

  The truth is that I'm not going to quit ... but I will stop asking questions of those who don't seem to understand that not everyone is where they are.  I've never said I'm the world's greatest photographer ... I've never said I don't have a lot to learn.  I have said I don't learn things by osmosis.  There is a process and a curve involved.  Everything takes time.   I now have my answer.

Dec 11 12 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RachelReilly
Posts: 1,727
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Your job is to to direct her and get the shot you want.
If you just met her so what.. Tell her to put her sweater down on one shoulder or to mess her hair up a bit/ put it up or whatever.. Make it interesting!  If you like the shot thats all the matters I suppose?
Dec 11 12 11:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Saedcantas
Posts: 445
Saint Saviour, Saint Saviour, United Kingdom


So are you trying to sell her a photo session, or are you suggesting that she or you purchase a print of this actual photo?
Dec 11 12 01:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
How does one decide what an ill advised thread is?  How does one decide what an ill conceived shoot is?

When you ask for feedback on a slapdash shot and then defend against and complain about the feedback because it was admittedly a slapdash shot, it's an ill-advised thread about an ill-advised shoot.

Is an ill conceived shoot one that happens on a split second decision outside of an ideally lit studio?

It doesn't have to be an ideally-lighted studio, but you should take *some* care about the lighting. "Split-second decision" is the operative phrase here. You took a snapshot. Snapshots in themselves aren't a bad thing. Just be aware that that's what they are.

Or is an ill conceived shoot one that happens where the results are less than ideal in someone (anyone) else's opinion?

The fact that you had to defend this shot by explaining how little thought and effort you put into it and how the model didn't know what she was doing and she was doing this on the quicktime because she was afraid she'd get fired... Well, that's a hint that this was an ill-conceived thread.

It's true that this thread/critique isn't or shouldn't be about the subject as she's not the one who asked the question.  Some people made it about her, though, when they commented on her wardrobe.

All under your control, so the commentary about the model rests on you.

The point was to ask for opinions on this ... is it good the way it is or no?  If you think the answer is no, what can be done to improve it?  Instead, there are lots of comments about what she's wearing, the lighting (that was by and large beyond my control), her hair blending into the background, etc etc.

Again, that's all on you. And the feedback you got applies directly to how to do this better.

How to improve this shot?
- Don't use a zero-experience girl in a situation where she's got to snap a pose before she gets fired.
- Plan out your shots better.
- Learn how to reconcile dark wardrobe and dark hair with dark background.

Cropping the image, especially on the left side, is a valid point that can be fixed relatively easily.  Some of the other things are things to be mindful of for future reference (ie shoot from a slightly higher angle to avoid the "double chin").  Most of the rest, though .. I won't say they're not valid but they are not easily fixed or even planned for at any time.

This shot's not fixable. That happens. Learn from it.

Dec 11 12 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
The truth is that I'm not going to quit ... but I will stop asking questions of those who don't seem to understand that not everyone is where they are.

That's bullshit. Most of us aren't slamming you because you're not where others are. a lot of people here gave you totally honest, straight-up feedback that applies to how to improve your skills.

I've never said I'm the world's greatest photographer ... I've never said I don't have a lot to learn.  I have said I don't learn things by osmosis.  There is a process and a curve involved.  Everything takes time.   I now have my answer.

And the process and curve invole asking questions. if you're going to quit asking questions, quit now. Just don't get defensive when you post a poorly-thought-out snapshot and get honest feedback on it.

Dec 11 12 01:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,066
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
That's bullshit. Most of us aren't slamming you because you're not where others are. a lot of people here gave you totally honest, straight-up feedback that applies to how to improve your skills.

You're right ... as usual.

Dec 11 12 02:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rik Williams
Posts: 3,362
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Lovely Day Media wrote:
I think this is important for everyone to know ... especially those who are talking about posing, wardrobe, etc.  This young lady isn't a model.  I met her in a shopping mall where she was working.  She had no idea when she got up that morning that she was going to be shot while she was working.

  The pose, etc ... I didn't have a lot of time as I didn't want to get her fired for something as silly as taking a single picture.  The idea behind this picture was to tell her that I am a photographer, I was/am not trying to scam her out of anything (especially money) and that with more time, we would come up with something that would be worthy of making into an extremely large size and putting it on her wall or mine.

  There were a few pictures to choose from, some natural light and some with a flash (speedlight).  The naturally lit ones made her skin look extremely gray to me ... as if she were dead.  With the flash, her skin does have a tone to it. 

  Focus: I do select an AF point and place it on one eye or the other ... I know for a fact that I don't have the world's steadiest hands and the lens I used is not an image stabilized lens.  These problems still exist when I use a tripod, though, so I'm not sure if the problem is the lens, the camera body or something else. 

  Story:  there is no story behind any of the photos I shoot.  If I see something I like, I shoot it.  If I see something I think the model/subject will like, I shoot it.  When I look at the shots others take, if no one in the image is moving (or looks like they're moving), there is no story being told to me. 

  As I said, there are some good points made here.  Some are simple (cropping out the gap between her arm and the edge of the picture) to fix.  Others are impossible in a situation like this (changing wardrobes, for instance).  Still others are only possible by spending money (getting "ideal" lighting, for instance) and having a place set up where one can use them (studio or otherwise ... this picture was shot in the middle of a shopping mall and pretty much spur of the moment ... yes, I carry my camera with me everywhere I go outside the house).

Hence the rather ordinary snapshot. Try a little more planning and apply your imagination before you take the shot next time
All the best.

Dec 11 12 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Saedcantas
Posts: 445
Saint Saviour, Saint Saviour, United Kingdom


Saedcantas wrote:
So are you trying to sell her a photo session, or are you suggesting that she or you purchase a print of this actual photo?

You missed my question, what was your aim in taking this shot?

Dec 11 12 02:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Berghammer
Posts: 519
Seattle, Washington, US


"How does one decide what an ill conceived shoot is?"


Consensus.


Whenever the argument is made that art is subjective you have to take into account one overriding factor, there is in fact a generally accepted consensus on technical merit. That particular shot looks like someone grabbed a coolpix camera and flashed their girlfriend at the mall, shots like that are forgiven based on levels of intent. Family/Facebook photo album = acceptable. However putting a shot like this in a portfolio for other artists to see (and or review) says little more than I have both a nondescript camera, finger, and someone who was able to stand still for a split second.

And the problem with "saving" a shot like this is it garners a sort of embarrassing result... I.e. it's usually pretty obvious that "art" is covering up lack of skill.

However, I think putting a shot like this up for review is not ill advised at all, the next time you go to shoot someone you're going to have a lot of these questions and critiques swirling around in your head, and that's never a bad thing, as it gives you some ideas to play with.  Light is like a bucket of paint. Some people dumped the bucket all over the subject, others forget to fill the bucket altogether, skill comes in when you start to be able to make fine brush strokes and mask off the areas you don't want to stain. This adage applies even with the pop-up flash at the mall.


And of course, keep shooting!
Dec 11 12 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark
Posts: 2,889
New York, New York, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:

Why would anyone go to a museum to examine fashion magazines?

ahhh, make that read fashion magazines

Dec 12 12 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rickilynn
Posts: 122
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada


I wouldnt say horrible. I just think a different background would have made her pop more. Possibly on a blue or something, he hair seems to get lost in the background.
Dec 12 12 08:15 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


It's fine I guess, but why does anyone want it?
It's just a girl, at night, somewhere indistinguishable. It doesn't look like it's the best photo of her so no reason she would particularly want it, it's not a great headshot because it's at night and she's wearing a giant coat thing so you don't see much of her, and it's not particularly interesting photographically because absolutely nothing is happening.


Why was this picture taken and who wants it?

Also looks fuzzy on the right side.
Dec 12 12 08:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
F8 Productions
Posts: 69
Chicago, Illinois, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Not great, hardly even OK.

Composition and lighting are poor - I couldn't be bothered to click on it to see what the retouching is like.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

+1

Dec 12 12 08:58 pm  Link  Quote 
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