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Retoucher
Stephanie M Retoucher
Posts: 276
Portland, Maine, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I think that's a great point. And in that case, it's not risque/risky but rather just a point in the development of a photographer's creativity.

One thing I will say is, if the image is superior that transcends any issues of controversy or cliche.

Just off the top of my head, Philip(sp?) can have all the standard 'fashion poses' that some would call cliche and each one is a masterpiece. I'm sure if those same models had angel wings I would think the same.

Gaze at Photography has an image of a model walking on train tracks with a sack over her shoulder and each time I see it I think it's marvelous. Granted, it doesn't hurt that the model is out-of-this-world gorgeous but the image is fantastic.

So...though I don't often see guitars/models, guns/models that transcend the content, maybe that's something to shoot for (badum dum...thank you folks I'll be here all week).

This is pretty much what I'm getting at smile As far as guns and models go, two images immediately come to mind that I would consider 'superior' enough to most other works that they can transcend being considered cliche despite the content.

(possible 18+) http://suzi9mm.deviantart.com/art/never … e-24408201
(definitely 18+) http://meluxine.deviantart.com/art/Wome … I-98935550

I think this is true of ANY concept that becomes popular, and then cliche due to over saturation. At some point someone did it well enough that it became popular in the first place, and there are always people who are talented enough and have enough creative vision to breath life into concepts that most of us find old and tired.

Dec 10 12 12:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Sweeney
Posts: 30
Kittery, Maine, US


Let me clarify...

The concept was just to photograph the model with the gun... I DID NOT EXPECT THIS SHOT OR WANT IT, however the model posed like this... I wasn't going for any type of "shock photo" or anything... I just reviewed my photos I took, and this was one of them, and I was purely wondering if it's "too much" for people, or not?
Dec 10 12 12:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,526
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:

Are you making some elliptical allusion to the op's other thread he's started about these same shots?

actually no. I had not seen the other thread. Had I seen it I would have called him a spammer more than an attention-whore.

Dec 10 12 12:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tim Little Photography
Posts: 11,536
Wilmington, Delaware, US


I've had people tell me this silly image is too violent and I should be ashamed.

18+ for violence.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/09 … d2ca80.jpg

So I suspect you will get a lot of complaints.
I find your gun photo brings up lots of feelings for me. Sad, depressed feelings. And given the concept I think those feelings are totally appropriate. I feel sad for the girl.
Dec 10 12 01:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Sweeney
Posts: 30
Kittery, Maine, US


Tim Little Photography wrote:
I've had people tell me this silly image is too violent and I should be ashamed.

18+ for violence.



So I suspect you will get a lot of complaints.
I find your gun photo brings up lots of feelings for me. Sad, depressed feelings. And given the concept I think those feelings are totally appropriate. I feel sad for the girl.

I really do too... but don't worry she is full of life, and a very very nice person in RL... She just threw this pose at me, and I didn't know what to think of the concept...
SO many mixed feelings....

Dec 10 12 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Todd Peifer
Posts: 52
DEFUNIAK SPRINGS, Florida, US


James Sweeney wrote:
I have some photos with a model holding a 9mm to their head... Do you Think it's too risque?

AKA please go look at my profile.

Dec 10 12 01:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert christopher
Posts: 2,680
Snohomish, Washington, US


For the tens of thousands who have had a loved one commit suicide, tasteless, lacking compassion maybe, risky no.

Just my narrow opinion.
Dec 10 12 02:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,526
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


robert christopher wrote:
For the tens of thousands per year in North America who have had a loved one commit suicide, tasteless, lacking compassion maybe, risky no.

Just my narrow opinion.

fixed

Dec 10 12 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,612
Phoenix, Arizona, US


robert christopher wrote:
For the tens of thousands who have had a loved one commit suicide, tasteless, lacking compassion maybe, risky no.

Just my narrow opinion.

So movies about suicide shouldn't be made?

Dec 10 12 03:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,526
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


John Jebbia wrote:

So movies about suicide shouldn't be made?

fiction or fictionalized portrayals.  and plenty of them are tasteless and lacking compassion even still.

Dec 10 12 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,841
Delphos, Ohio, US


It ranks right up there with llamas flipping the bird.
Dec 10 12 03:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,841
Delphos, Ohio, US


robert christopher wrote:
For the tens of thousands who have had a loved one commit suicide, tasteless, lacking compassion maybe, risky no.

Just my narrow opinion.

Really? Are we supposed to censor far the sake of everyone's potential feelings? We've already gone WAY overboard with PC bullshit.

Dec 10 12 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AVD AlphaDuctions
Posts: 10,526
Gatineau, Quebec, Canada


William Kious wrote:

Really? Are we supposed to censor the the sake of everyone's potential feelings? We've already gone WAY overboard with PC bullshit.

hold on a fucking second there cowboy.  nobody said anything about censoring.  an opinion was sought.  It was just stated that this was tasteless and perhaps lacking in compassion.  there are plenty of tasteless things out there that no one would dream of censoring.  learn to fucking read when you are in Photography Forum. its not OT.

Dec 10 12 03:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


James,

I looked at your Port and I don't see anything too risque about your captures!

All the Best!
Edward
Dec 10 12 04:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,219
Columbus, Ohio, US


I see no photo with a gun to their head....maybe close, but not pointed at their head as your SUBJECT line alludes to.
Dec 10 12 04:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,219
Columbus, Ohio, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
hold on a fucking second there cowboy.  nobody said anything about censoring.  an opinion was sought.  It was just stated that this was tasteless and perhaps lacking in compassion.  there are plenty of tasteless things out there that no one would dream of censoring.  learn to fucking read when you are in Photography Forum. its not OT.

Speaking about cowboy... roll

Frankly he was kinda spot on.

Dec 10 12 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


MainePaintah wrote:
too risque?...or too RISKY?

Dude, that is the most irresponsible thing you can do with a gun!

Did you look at the pictures?

Dec 10 12 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


James Sweeney wrote:
I am just curious... i don't want to turn people off to my work that's all...

There's nothing wrong with those shots!  They look fine!

Dec 10 12 04:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


intense puppy wrote:

Truer words were never spoken smile

+1

Dec 10 12 04:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,212
Orlando, Florida, US


Why hasn't this been moved to Critique?  That's what the OP is asking for.
Dec 10 12 04:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


Kaouthia wrote:
As mentioned above, never ignore gun safety.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -GUNS.html

This is more of an article that people should make sure Guns are EMPTY while handling by anyone not ready to shoot!

Dec 10 12 04:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


James Sweeney wrote:
I don't understand this anti-women comment... this photo is of an open transsexual. What does sex have to do with it?

Nothing...

Dec 10 12 04:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:

I think that's a great point. And in that case, it's not risque/risky but rather just a point in the development of a photographer's creativity.

One thing I will say is, if the image is superior that transcends any issues of controversy or cliche.

Just off the top of my head, Philip(sp?) can have all the standard 'fashion poses' that some would call cliche and each one is a masterpiece. I'm sure if those same models had angel wings I would think the same.

Gaze at Photography has an image of a model walking on train tracks with a sack over her shoulder and each time I see it I think it's marvelous. Granted, it doesn't hurt that the model is out-of-this-world gorgeous but the image is fantastic.

So...though I don't often see guitars/models, guns/models that transcend the content, maybe that's something to shoot for (badum dum...thank you folks I'll be here all week).

+1

Well said Michael!

Dec 10 12 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bunny 007
Posts: 274
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


Maybe the model hated working with you & thought it was loaded.
Dec 10 12 04:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
I see no photo with a gun to their head....maybe close, but not pointed at their head as your SUBJECT line alludes to.

+1  Absolutely SPOT ON!!!

Dec 10 12 04:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


Bunny 007 wrote:
Maybe the model hated working with you & thought it was loaded.

Not good form...   :-(

Dec 10 12 04:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bunny 007
Posts: 274
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


EdwardKristopher wrote:

Not good form...   :-(

Wot?  Can't you tell a joke without a smiley face?

Dec 10 12 04:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
hold on a fucking second there cowboy.  nobody said anything about censoring.  an opinion was sought.  It was just stated that this was tasteless and perhaps lacking in compassion.  there are plenty of tasteless things out there that no one would dream of censoring.  learn to fucking read when you are in Photography Forum. its not OT.

Do we really need to curse when our language offers us the opportunity to beat others up and really make them feel good about it...I'm just sayin.

Dec 10 12 04:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


Bunny 007 wrote:

Wot?  Can't you tell a joke without a smiley face?

It's about the OP and the Models who aren't pointing guns at their heads.  It's truly not about You and I.

Dec 10 12 04:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Westlake
Posts: 1,516
Mansfield Center, Connecticut, US


I got the news today that an old friend of mine comitted suicide this morning with a handgun. I would find that image quite disturbing and offensive.
Dec 10 12 04:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


David Westlake wrote:
I got the news today that an old friend of mine comitted suicide this morning with a handgun. I would find that image quite disturbing and offensive.

The image of Your Friend?  I would agree!  I'm sure that most of us out here would also and we would wish you Our Best and Deepest Condolences for Your loss.

Kindest regards,
Edward

Dec 10 12 04:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,494
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Risque or Cliche?

That would make a big difference in the answer, maybe this was better posted in feedback...

David Westlake wrote:
I got the news today that an old friend of mine comitted suicide this morning with a handgun. I would find that image quite disturbing and offensive.

I would agree

Dec 10 12 04:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


Kaouthia wrote:

In a depiction of suicide, I don't think gender really makes a difference.

Putting a woman in a position of harm, in artwork, is still considered by many as exploitative.

Dec 10 12 04:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


James Sweeney wrote:
I don't understand this anti-women comment... this photo is of an open transsexual. What does sex have to do with it?

Is it obvious that she is an open transsexual?  I went back to look,  but you have removed the image.

My memory was that is was a woman in a bathtub holding a gun into her mouth with runny mascara.  You have referred to her as a "she".   That is where the subject of violence against woman came from.  I don't know where you got anti woman out of it.

Dec 10 12 04:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
afplcc
Posts: 5,979
Fairfax, Virginia, US


James Sweeney wrote:
I have some photos with a model holding a 9mm to their head... Do you Think it's too risque?

I'm not sure that risque is the word you're searching for.  There are some photos of such a pose that could be highly effective--either from an editorial perspective or a very dark Jenn Violetta kind of theme.  But most would likely end up cliched or tacky or both.

And in that regard, it's like most ideas and poses--when well executed they can be very effective and powerful.  In the hands of most they become "huh?".

Ed

Dec 10 12 05:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James Sweeney
Posts: 30
Kittery, Maine, US


I took the photo down... it just really was too tasteless. PM me if U want to see it... I'll just keep it in the archives...
Dec 10 12 05:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Zack Zoll
Posts: 2,326
Glens Falls, New York, US


It's not risky at all, as 'fake suicide' and 'crazy person with gun' are both well-worn tropes. Unless you're trying to be all meta about it; then it's pretty risky, because nobody is going to get it.

If you photograph a guy from a rock band, and there is a prop gun nearby, I'd give you 1000:1 odds that he picks it up and poses with it.  Once he has it in his hand, I'd give you 1,000,000:1 odds that he points it at the camera, or his own head.

As far as taste goes ... there is no such thing as tasteless subject matter.  None.  None at all.  Zero.  If a topic can provoke an emotional response, that means that it is an important topic, and is thus worthy of discussion.  Anyone that tells you anything to the contrary is more concerned with their own feelings - or more often, maintaining an air of fairness and moral superiority - then they are concerned with art.

Suicide kills lots of people every year, so we do no suicide photos.  Got it.  Smoking kills more people though, so make sure that you never take a photograph of someone smoking.  We should probably pull all the Nirvana records from the store shelves, because we don't want to glamorize suicide.  Oh, and if we don't want anyone to be offended, we should make sure to never include any symbolism that could possibly be interpreted as pro-/anti- any religion on any publicly displayed work, or else some angry mother will call a press conference with the local news channel to tell them about how we're endangering their children's well-placed values.


Yes, it is a slippery slope argument.  But in most Western societies people have sued, and won, over even stupider stuff.  Like McDonald's coffee.  You really want to tell me that this isn't how it would go down?


However, there IS such a thing as a tasteless approach to the subject matter, and in usually involves people having an idea, and then not putting much time into how they will present that idea; in other words, thinking that their idea is so good, that the viewer will know exactly what they're trying to say, and will automatically side with them.

If you really want to show this work, then show it.  If somebody complains, then tell them - in the kindest possible way - to go screw themselves.  If it becomes 'a thing' ... good.  In the art world, there is literally no such thing as bad publicity.

Shoot, I had some lady spread a bunch of rumours around town about how I'm some creepy date-rapist guy for taking photos of old ladies in their underwear, and it didn't have any impact on me at all.   In fact, I actually got some sympathy and respect because of it.

Just to clarify - it was in the studio and with a model release.  Not through an open window tongue
Dec 10 12 07:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,841
Delphos, Ohio, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:
hold on a fucking second there cowboy.  nobody said anything about censoring.  an opinion was sought.  It was just stated that this was tasteless and perhaps lacking in compassion.  there are plenty of tasteless things out there that no one would dream of censoring.  learn to fucking read when you are in Photography Forum. its not OT.

Back the fucking truck up there, cowboy! For the record, I wasn't fucking talking to you, was I? It was a direct response to someone else.

Tell me how someone dressed in lingerie with a gun aimed at his/her head would be offensive to those who have experienced the suicide of a loved one? Was the person who killed themselves dressed in lingerie posing for a glamour shoot? If an individual is going to be that sensitive, then he/she should hide away somewhere and refuse to look at the world.

Learn to fucking watch your damn language. This isn't OT.

Dec 10 12 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
howard r
Posts: 485
Los Angeles, California, US


artistically speaking, i think there is always danger in using sensationalistic gimmicks (swastikas, guns, abusive bondage, etc) and then confusing the resulting "controversy" with actually creating a daring, thought-provoking artistic statement.

real daring artistic statements, as opposed to clich├ęd, wanna-be daring artistic statements, are actually quite hard to create.
Dec 10 12 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glenn Hall - Fine Art
Posts: 431
Townsville, Queensland, Australia


...I am kinda wondering if bitch slapping my llama with a huge dildo is risky....
Dec 10 12 08:34 pm  Link  Quote 
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