I see nothing wrong with you hanging out with a friend, O and if she happen to be a model then that is all the better (ya will have lots to talk about) As long as everyone is a adult, then there is nothing wrong with hanging out. You would not hold it against a friend and not hang out with them if they were a photographer, so why hold it against her that she is a model.
I would not worry about what "He" said to you. I am friends with most of the models I shot (Male and female) and it is really nice to have a friend that understands my artistic vision. So many people are not artistic. So to have friends with the same passion it a cherished thing.
I see nothing wrong with being friends with clients (model)/ or other photographers in the business ( I am), just in a sense keep the two (friendship/ business) separate and on a professional level appropriately.
Thomas Tran wrote: To me, when they're on set, they're a model. After the shoot, they're a friend.
Of course, the old bugger is jealous. I shoot a lot of people, and some become friends and some don't, no big deal. Interesting why and what people are getting jealous about .. is it the long hours in post-prod or do they all expect that you're sleeping with the models?? ;-)
So basically, don't bother... Its not even worth trying to explain...
My best friend in East TN (I moved here to Detroit a year ago) was a middle-aged man. We met as a model and photographer and continued to shoot but he also became a really good friend. I worked for him for a little bit before I moved as well. His wife also became a friend. We used to attend meet and greets together, go shopping, etc. I think some people probably thought stuff about us, but most people got that we were just friends.
Here in Detroit I have a ton of photographer friends who are guys and of various ages. We talk all the time at events. I have plenty of friends who are models and photographers who hang out.
The problem is if the guy gets talking and tells models dumb things about you and they choose to believe them. Unfortunately, not much you can do, but the good news is that models who have worked with you tend to be more credible to models, especially serious ones.
I think you and each model have to determine your relationship between you. I strive for a professional distance, but I have a different relationship with each person I have partnered with: some are coworkers, some are prayer partners, others are repeat favorites, who are completely at home in my house. I get a lot of feedback that my environment feels welcoming and safe and my models felt comfortable even during our first shoot and/or being nude, (with and without an escort) I work hard to make it that way and if we cross paths outside of a shoot, I want my model partners to feel good about our interaction.
I will say this, some of my models are married and so I treat that relationship with extra care out of respect for their spouses...a little more distance is appropriate.
Thomas Tran wrote: Long story short, I was called out by an older photographer saying that it makes me look unprofessional and creepy because I hangout with "young models" outside of a professional environment.
Screw his opinion!
Let me guess: That guy is a part time, or hobbyist shooter, whose main income is from some other profession, right.
He does NOT work in any capacity in the fashion or modeling industry!
Those judgmental people usually fit in my description.
Any full time industry insider will tell you a different opinion on what is professional and what not and it's none of this guys business what you do OFF SET, as long as no under aged people are involved and all are consenting adults.
I'm 62 and hang out with 20-something models all the time - but it is up to them to initiate this - I am happy to grab a bite after a shoot, hang out and talk shop or whatever the drama of the day is, and etc.
It is perfectly natural to become friendly with people you work with -
Thomas Sellberg wrote: I can't see anything wrong with it. If I had friends that were models I would do the same thing. It's really no different than shooting my uncle's wedding. While working it was a professional relationship, after we were done it's was back to uncle/nephew.
S W I N S K E Y wrote: I spend most of my non shooting hours around models less than half my age..
it's funny, but the only people that suggest i'm creepy are younger dudes, that aren't hanging with these beautiful young women.
i am concerned with what my friends think of me, not some frustrated douchebags..
Ahh, those golden days when the models I worked with were only half my age... How did they all get so young?
I'm on friendly terms with many of the models that I've worked with. We always have a good time on set.
With some I exchhange occasional messages with that aren't related to photography. Being married, hanging out with them wouldn't be appropriate for me, but for a single person, not a big deal, especially since you are roughly in their age bracket. Most models I work with are younger than my daughter.
What I find almost as amusing as the guy's jealousy over the OP having friends is the number of people here who've said or implied that it's OK as long as your friends are in your same age group. I'm 47 and the friends I hang out with range in age from 16 to 74. None of them are inappropriate because they're based on mutual interests and platonic affection. The idea that it's only OK to have friends in your own age group strikes me as creepy in the same way as a pedophile complaining about little girls wearing two piece swimming suits.
If it's supposed to hurt your reputation, that would mean that someone would have to care that you hang out with models. Who would that be? Models? Photographers? Your mother?
Who could possibly care that you hang out with models?
Other than that "older photographer?"
EDIT: I was just looking over your port. Could I um, like, hang out with you?
Any photographer making a judgement about you based on your being friends with those you shoot with is creepy! Well maybe not creepy, but perhaps he is jealous, or has too much time on his hands? Maybe he wishes he was so busy with bookings to notice that you hang out with models who are also your friends? Then maybe he is just a judgemental prick? Don't worry about it!
I'm fortunate to have lots of friends who are also models. I also have friends who are photographers too. There is nothing strange or creepy about being friends with people in the same industry as you ... in fact it's quite normal.
Thomas Tran wrote: Long story short, I was called out by an older photographer saying that it makes me look unprofessional and creepy because I hangout with "young models" outside of a professional environment. He pretty much called me a GWC. Last thing I want is to have a bad rep or be labeled negatively.
I can somewhat see where he's coming from, but to my defense, i'm friends with most of my models. To me, when they're on set, they're a model. After the shoot, they're a friend.
First time i've been called out on this so i'm asking the opinion of other photographers and models.
Yes this is a difficult situation to confront.. In our business there are probably 50 or 60 models that we work with or a regular basis. NO we cannot play favorites.. I can see where if you work with only 2 0r 3 models, you may have some problems of jelousy, and some favoritism can develope.. TO HANGOUT IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL WAY TO CONDUCT A BUSINESS.
If you are young and your friends happen to be those you work with, nothing could be more natural. IF it were an old guy hanging out withy the young, it could be a bit or a lot perverted.
I am an old guy with a very few close via web models, but I don't hang out with any.
I would consider having a muse, but that would be dream that will not likely happen.
The Spaces Between wrote: some of the funnest coolest people ive met are models, make upartists, hair stylists while doing shoots. Im happy to call a bunch of them friends.
One of the best things about this hobby for me is meeting interesting people!
BTHPhoto wrote: What I find almost as amusing as the guy's jealousy over the OP having friends is the number of people here who've said or implied that it's OK as long as your friends are in your same age group. I'm 47 and the friends I hang out with range in age from 16 to 74. None of them are inappropriate because they're based on mutual interests and platonic affection. The idea that it's only OK to have friends in your own age group strikes me as creepy in the same way as a pedophile complaining about little girls wearing two piece swimming suits.
thank you(-:
oh my god if i had to ONLY have friends in my own age group idk if id still be around-.- #YOLO!
on an unrelated note- yolo is actually dying down...
Richard Nolan
Posts: 100
London, England, United Kingdom
Thomas Tran wrote: Last thing I want is to have a bad rep or be labeled negatively.
On this point I think it's almost the opposite. You would have to have a good rep if llamas are hanging out with you. I think to other photographer has issues many of which have been mentioned earlier.
I have friends... Some happen to be Models in their 20's... Some are Firefighters in their 40's... Some are Architectural Designers in their 60's... Their age or career is irrelevant to me; their personality, values & sincerity are what count.
If some self righteous people, tell you they have a problem with you hanging out with Model friends, tell them to Fuck Off
Jealousy & envy are unattractive personality traits.
Yes this is a difficult situation to confront.. In our business there are probably 50 or 60 models that we work with or a regular basis. NO we cannot play favorites.. I can see where if you work with only 2 0r 3 models, you may have some problems of jelousy, and some favoritism can develope.. TO HANGOUT IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL WAY TO CONDUCT A BUSINESS.
Perhaps you should pass on this nugget of wisdom to Rankin, Russell James, Mario Testino etc ... All of whom shoot & hangout with many of the World's top Models... So much so, that Rankin has published a body of personal work he shot of Heidi Klum (someone he's been friends with for years) called Heidiliscious ... Russell James has published a couple of books of personal projects he has shot with numerous VS Model friends he hangs out with... Mario has several personal project books out, all shot with Models he considers friends such as Kate Moss, Natalia Vodianova & Lara Stone. These Photographer/Model relationship are well known within the industry...
Bottom line is that we tend to socialize within our peer group... For Professional Photographers that means MUA's, Hair Stylists, Grip Technicians, Assistants, Studio Managers & yes, Models!
To say that it's unprofessional to have Model friends is nonsense.
You say that we as photographers work with 50-60 Models on a regular basis... I find this to be completely different from my own experience. I havent shot more than 3-4 models more than once or twice... I am usually booked on projects all over the World shooting on average around 80 - 100 models a year... It's inevitable that with some we become friends & stay in touch... Every now & again we end up being in the same part of the World & may end up grabbing dinner together to "hang out", just like friends do.
I don't consider this unprofessional, actually quite the contrary. It's part of a network building process too. I have booked several good assignments based on friendships I have with Models, where they have recommended me to regular clients they work with; the reverse has also happened too.
Hanging out with Models, Art Directors, Editors, Designers, MUA's, Publicists etc is one way many of us pick up extra work... That's how business is done in many parts of the World.
Yes this is a difficult situation to confront.. In our business there are probably 50 or 60 models that we work with or a regular basis. NO we cannot play favorites.. I can see where if you work with only 2 0r 3 models, you may have some problems of jelousy, and some favoritism can develope.. TO HANGOUT IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL WAY TO CONDUCT A BUSINESS.
Horseshit
Possible translation=No one hangs out with you?
To be fair, there are some situations where it may be ill-advised to specific individuals.
I've learned to ignore the looks I get when I walk into a restaurant after a shoot... accompanied by a young, beautiful girl dressed in heels and a short, low-cut dress, with makeup and hair done. I'll admit, it does turn heads and I can only imagine what others are thinking... but who cares? Oh yea... I'm 57
Harold Rose wrote: Yes this is a difficult situation to confront.. In our business there are probably 50 or 60 models that we work with or a regular basis. NO we cannot play favorites.. I can see where if you work with only 2 0r 3 models, you may have some problems of jelousy, and some favoritism can develope.. TO HANGOUT IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL WAY TO CONDUCT A BUSINESS.
Small Fruit Pits wrote: Horseshit
Possible translation=No one hangs out with you?
To be fair, there are some situations where it may be ill-advised to specific individuals.
But with the broad brush you painted? No
That may be so for some photographers but art photographers like to surround themselves with fellow creatives. ALL my closest friends are models and photographers.
Thomas Tran wrote: Long story short, I was called out by an older photographer saying that it makes me look unprofessional and creepy because I hangout with "young models" outside of a professional environment. He pretty much called me a GWC. Last thing I want is to have a bad rep or be labeled negatively.
I can somewhat see where he's coming from, but to my defense, i'm friends with most of my models. To me, when they're on set, they're a model. After the shoot, they're a friend.
First time i've been called out on this so i'm asking the opinion of other photographers and models.
What you do in your personal life (including...date and then marry one of your models) is no-one's business.
Now, a reality check: there will be some models (starting out in the game, or who had a bad experience) who may be encouraged by your friendliness or put off by it. Not b/c it's good or bad, but b/c it feeds in to some of the issues they're dealing with ("oh crap, this guy is trying to be friends so he can get in my pants!" or "hey--what a nice guy, he isn't all focused on his cameras, I can let down my guard and relax."). And some veteran models will tell you that there seem to be some GWCs who just want to hang around young, cute, women or girls...so there's that perception thing. The key is to always be professional in your dealings with everyone on the business side and don't flaunt (by boasting about the number of models you've had dinner with or how you shot Melissa on Friday and then went clubbing with her on Saturday, etc.).
Thomas Tran wrote: Long story short, I was called out by an older photographer saying that it makes me look unprofessional and creepy because I hangout with "young models" outside of a professional environment.
Good Lord man, this is one of the great things about being a photographer: hanging out with beautiful young women! Preferably beautiful naked young women! If the price is being called "creepy," bring it on!
This is a different sort of business, a different sort of professional behavior away from the job. Models and photographers often collaboratively work on their artistic projects, friendships could certainly be founded on this mutual interest. And you being younger, you'll have other areas of mutual interest.
I'm an old fart with a kid and husband, it's a lot less likely that I'll have other interests with my models. But on the artistic side, yes, I could see that happening.
Riley Sharpe
Posts: 3
London, England, United Kingdom
i wouldnt care about what that photographer says, models or photographers whatever we are all people and there is nothing wrong with being friends with work coleagues. tbh it sounds like a very closed minded old fashioned way of thinking. you can be friends and still be proffessional. i also find that if you are friends the models are way more relaxed and the environment is easier to work in. i do porn and im friends with my producers, i dont sleep with them, i keep it very professional but it doesnt mean after a days work we cant go for a pint and chat. silly!
As long as everyone is a adult, then there is nothing wrong with hanging out. You would not hold it against a friend and not hang out with them if they were a photographer, so why hold it against her that she is a model.
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