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Photographer
KiMoMi_Photography
Posts: 30
Augusta-Richmond, Georgia, US


Models:

When a photographer approaches you about a shoot,  how does he explain the concept to you?  How would you like it explained to you?


Photographers:

When you approach a model about a shoot, how do you explain the concept to her?


I'm speaking of approaching thru MM message.
Dec 11 12 04:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ed Hanson Photo
Posts: 1,129
Spring, Texas, US


I get their email address and send images as examples, and also explain how, where I'd like to do it different.
Dec 11 12 06:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Chelsea Marlo
Posts: 127
Portland, Oregon, US


As a model, I like for the photographer to be as specific as possible about what he/she is looking for and prefer that they show me example photos if possible. That way I can be sure we're on the same page before we shoot.
Dec 12 12 12:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,875
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


I keep large web galleries of sample photos to review with models to define style, clothing, styling, etc for a concept.  I also make 4 by 6 photo books of sample photos for composition and pose suggestions.
Dec 12 12 12:28 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


I prefer example pictures with some added explanation to it, if it's possible smile.
like "I was thinking something along the lines of this (pictures), but maybe with the make up a bit more like this (pictures) and a bit more dramaic lighting like in this one (picture)"
Dec 12 12 12:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FlirtynFun Photography
Posts: 12,869
Houston, Texas, US


1. this entirely depends on what the concept is for. If it's for a paid submission, I'm likely to keep the concept to myself until the day we shoot so as to protect the concept from being "stolen"/used elsewhere. I'll typically request a model bring specific clothing/outfits.

Years ago I casually mentioned a "concept" to a fellow photographer before I shot a calendar. It surprised me that the same year he shot a calendar with my exact concept.
Dec 12 12 12:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,257
Muncie, Indiana, US


FlirtynFun Photography wrote:
1. this entirely depends on what the concept is for. If it's for a paid submission, I'm likely to keep the concept to myself until the day we shoot so as to protect the concept from being "stolen"/used elsewhere. I'll typically request a model bring specific clothing/outfits.

Years ago I casually mentioned a "concept" to a fellow photographer before I shot a calendar. It surprised me that the same year he shot a calendar with my exact concept.

You were seriously surprised? I think you have to worry more about other photographers and not models.

Dec 12 12 02:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CraigVoisin Photography
Posts: 129
Whitesboro, Texas, US


After having a few concepts  discussed with a model and canceled by her  only to see that exact concept shot with her the same week i prefer not to go into details . I will only share what is required  be it fashion , implied , or nude , and compensation .
Dec 13 12 06:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alvaro Alcaide
Posts: 1,272
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US


Images. Images. Images.
Dec 13 12 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Keira Sibali
Posts: 189
Oakland, New Jersey, US


Reference pictures are great. Especially if there's a particular shot you're looking to reproduce. Also as much description as possible to ensure that everyone is on the same page. I worked with a photographer recently who had taped up a list of shots he wanted to get at the shoot. We had discussed them in advance, so I knew what to expect going in, but having the list there as a reminder really helped! It allowed us both to get exactly what we wanted out of the experience and there wasn't that feeling of "oh crap, we forgot to do xyz"
Dec 14 12 08:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matt Knowles
Posts: 3,551
Ferndale, California, US


On an initial approach, I'm usually pretty vague about concepts. Once we start planning and the model has proved that there is a good chance the shoot will actually happen, I will explain more. I email photos of the clothes I'm shooting and maybe some photos of similar themes or poses.
Dec 14 12 09:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digital Photo PLUS
Posts: 5,503
Lorton, Virginia, US


In the days when I was doing the type of photography that models were interested in for their own use I would set up a forum on my web site and posted ideas and information there. This way the makeup, hair, and wardrobe people could discuss the looks and projects.

These days I shoot mostly nudes and pay models for the work with money so I don't offer any information unless asked.

I keep my ideas in Evernote so I can still share them. Evernote is a web site as well as a desktop and mobile app. It's for capturing and sharing things. It can be text, pictures, links, sound, video, anything in digital format. The stuff is synchronized across my devices and I can share it with other Evernote users. I like it very much. Sometimes I get an idea from watching TV, I pause it, take a picture of the screen with my phone, save the picture to Evernote with a description. It has a screen capture feature which I use a lot. I have literally thousands of pictures with ideas.

One of my most favorite things to do in spare time is to browse internet looking for picture ideas. I google a word and then go through images that come up. Another great source is Deviant Art. Lot's of junk and dick flashing but many good ideas too.
Dec 14 12 12:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jojo West
Posts: 972
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


KiMoMi_Photography wrote:
Models:

When a photographer approaches you about a shoot,  how does he explain the concept to you?  How would you like it explained to you?


Photographers:

When you approach a model about a shoot, how do you explain the concept to her?


I'm speaking of approaching thru MM message.

I like when they send me links that represent a general idea of the shoot, THEN I like to meet with the photographer face to face to discuss and brainstorm if we're going for a concept, especially if I have to spend money on outfits/accessories. I find that those photographers that I meet with beforehand provide better images, they have more time and vision vested. Everyone is different, some folks don't like the one on one.

Dec 14 12 12:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digital Photo PLUS
Posts: 5,503
Lorton, Virginia, US


Matt Knowles wrote:
On an initial approach, I'm usually pretty vague about concepts. Once we start planning and the model has proved that there is a good chance the shoot will actually happen, I will explain more. I email photos of the clothes I'm shooting and maybe some photos of similar themes or poses.

I'm careful with describing ideas too. I can never know what kind of image my words will create in the model's head. I lost quite a few models trying to describe this idea to them:

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/081119/11/49244243eb47e_m.jpg

Dec 14 12 12:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email ... do it in person AFTER they sign an NDA ... way too many folks take your work to another shooter who is too damn lazy to do the work themselves ... and if you check, you will see that most have done this before ... and run to their "fave" shooter with your work and screw it all up ... then you shoot it and look like the copy cat ... never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email ... never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email ... never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email
Dec 14 12 12:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jojo West
Posts: 972
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Hero Foto wrote:
never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email ... do it in person AFTER they sign an NDA ... way too many folks take your work to another shooter who is too damn lazy to do the work themselves ... and if you check, you will see that most have done this before ... and run to their "fave" shooter with your work and screw it all up ... then you shoot it and look like the copy cat ... never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email ... never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email ... never ever ever ever detail (storyboard) a shoot via email

I guess but honestly unless the concept is super over the top and NEVER been done before, you can't hold rights to it. Besides...if they shoot with someone else and it's crap, but you shoot it and it's amazing, why would that make you look bad?

Just an opinion of course. To each its own.

Dec 14 12 12:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Jojo West wrote:
I guess but honestly unless the concept is super over the top and NEVER been done before, you can't hold rights to it. Besides...if they shoot with someone else and it's crap, but you shoot it and it's amazing, why would that make you look bad?

Just an opinion of course. To each its own.

in the REAL WORLD, this is known of industrial/corporate espionage, and is punishable in court ...

Dec 14 12 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jojo West
Posts: 972
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Hero Foto wrote:

in the REAL WORLD, this is known of industrial/corporate espionage, and is punishable in court ...

In the REAL WORLD, I work with attorneys and know exactly what it's called smile I'm a smarty pants. Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You can express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but copyright will not protect the idea itself.

An NDA cannot help you if you're just having a conversation, it can't protect something you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt was your idea.

Dec 14 12 01:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MZ PhotoFilm
Posts: 202
Jacksonville, Florida, US


i would say a phone call, if the concept is to much to type... or find example online
Dec 14 12 01:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Jojo West wrote:
In the REAL WORLD, I work with attorneys and know exactly what it's called smile I'm a smarty pants. Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You can express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but copyright will not protect the idea itself.

An NDA cannot help you if you're just having a conversation, it can't protect something you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt was your idea.

so why the smart ass comment ??? seriously?

as for the NDA, if it is signed and they take the storyboarded concept to another, then YES I can sue the crap outta them ... wink

Dec 14 12 08:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jojo West
Posts: 972
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Lol not smartass, was debating with someone with similar knowledge. All in good fun, plus other people learn like that smile
Dec 14 12 08:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NYMPH
Posts: 602
Oakland, California, US


It totally depends. Sometimes we're shooting a specific, complex concept that requires compositing various elements, sometimes demonstrated via an array pictures. Other times someone just asks if I wanna shoot, I look through their port, get an idea of their style, and bring stuff accordingly.

I have mixed feelings about concept photos. Sometimes their great, but sometimes what you see in the photo is simply not achievable by the team. I can't tell you how many make up artists and hair stylists turn out something that only vaguely resembles the concept shot. I also have a pet peeve about matching poses to a photograph (especially with fine art nudes). In the case of fine art - I have a very unique body, so the chances that I'll bend in exactly the same way and create the same shape is slim. I would much rather get creative and make something new and beautiful.

On that note, I think concept shots can be a great jumping off point, but not a good hard and fast framework.
Dec 14 12 09:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Jojo West wrote:
Lol not smartass, was debating with someone with similar knowledge. All in good fun, plus other people learn like that smile

smile .... rock on girly ...

Dec 15 12 10:17 am  Link  Quote 
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