Hello all! Ill be purchasing my first set of strobes at the start of the new year and feel ill be going with the Alien Bee b400 and 1 b800(with vag power pack n stands). Now like everyone id probly want to buy ALL THE THINGS but i have a roughly 1200$ budget to stick with. Which has me a bit stumped on what to get in terms of the modifying elements. I shoot in a small indoor studio but also out on location a good deal.
It seems most ppl find the octobox vs square softbox to just be a matter of catchlights - so id def want a softbox. But im not sure what to go with for when i want a more directional light. Iv duct taped cardboard boxes to lamps in the past that are a bit hit or miss in terms of results T_T
Unseelie Allure wrote: But im not sure what to go with for when i want a more directional light. Iv duct taped cardboard boxes to lamps in the past that are a bit hit or miss in terms of results T_T
Look into Buff's LiteMod Barn doors. Better that boxes I guess.
$1200 is a reasonable budget for a variety of modifiers. In addition to your lights + Vagabond I would get:
2 lightstands
1 large PLM
1 shoot through umbrella
1 20deg grid
1 stripbox
I would also get wireless remote triggers from cactus or similar. For a little extra- a Photoflex Transpac case would hold all that gear in a lightweight rolling case.
Loki Studio wrote: $1200 is a reasonable budget for a variety of modifiers. In addition to your lights + Vagabond I would get:
2 lightstands
1 large PLM
1 shoot through umbrella
1 20deg grid
1 stripbox
I would also get wireless remote triggers from cactus or similar. For a little extra- a Photoflex Transpac case would hold all that gear in a lightweight rolling case.
Dont buy a light stand from bluff, go to calumet ten buck less and there air cush, the plm is just a reflective umbrella save your money and get two silver umbrellas for the price of that plm, grids our nice. i would get some light gels blue,red green purple. 4x8 white board from home depot for your white floor. some foam core blk/white from walmart a little bit of tape and you got some barn doors lolol if you can find 2 4x8 foam core sheets in back and white your in the game can we say backdrops
Paul Dempsey wrote: get a set of their grids...also, get the grid for the soft box
This.
Side note: a small studio and outdoor location, as you know, are very different. I would consider using part of that $1200 for a 1600. More power to battle the sun and you would then have 3 lights, giving you more flexability in your set-ups.
Don't forget you get a discount on modifiers when you buy lights.
I agree that Buff's light stands are cheaply made and that you can find better stands elsewhere. MOST of Buffs modifiers are relatively inexpensive and fairly well made though. Depending on the type of light output you want, you should be able to maximize $1200.
P-Studios wrote: the plm is just a reflective umbrella save your money and get two silver umbrellas for the price of that plm,
There are several PLMs. Some are silver but others have white that you can either shoot through, cover with black outside, silver inside to make a regular type umbrella or go one more step and add a diffusion covering to make it softbox-ish. They are also some of the best umbrellas I have ever bought. Nice build quality. I'd highly recommend them to anyone.
the plm is just a reflective umbrella save your money and get two silver umbrellas for the price of that plm
I disagree! The PLM is indeed better concentrated. I have compared it to umbrellas in my experiments and it has more character. I recommend it with its white diffusion as a softlighter substitute.
The ABR800 is interesting if you accessorize it for off-camera use.
I disagree! The PLM is indeed better concentrated. I have compared it to umbrellas in my experiments and it has more character. I recommend it with its white diffusion as a softlighter substitute.
The ABR800 is interesting if you accessorize it for off-camera use.
i have all of them and for the price pure money value you can do more with two silver umbrellas hen you can with one plm
haha my midnight posting wasnt that clear, im sorry guys! the 1200 budget isnt JUST for the mods rofl thats for the stands, and 2 lights as well.
Which grids do you find most helpful for a spot light?The 11" reflector seemed...fairly sexy with the concentration and throw for outdoor shooting but you really dont see many people talking about it.
Most ppl seem to lean with a soft box and beauty dish when iv been asking about on the forums?
I have just about every modifier that they make. I do use photoflex softboxes as I like their design and grids. I prefer them to the BUFF softboxes.
I hardly use my beauty dish. I prefer softboxes. It is just a choice. Plus the beauty dish is heavy. I have a bag and a grid for it.
For grids you can use the 10-20 for face and body to do Film Noir style lighting. I got the full set and then an additional 10 grid. I would suggest the set as it will give you a good range and more options.
Also buy Blackwrap from The Set Shop or other store. This is black aluminum foil you can use to shape the light. Even if you have a 40 grid but want to localize the light more like a 10 grid.
If you want you can e-mail me questions. Or ping me on my LJ. Then I can give you more detailed answers to any questions you have. I am excited you are getting strobes.
I wouldn't stock up on modifiers until you find out what you like.
Do you like a soft look or a harder, high-contrast look? Sharp edge transfer or more diffused? Will you be shooting lots of full-length photos, mostly headshots or something in between? Will you be shooting multiple models together?
Since you're getting a pair of strobes, start with just two modifiers. What you start with depends on the look(s) you want to shoot. It's a good idea if at least one of them can be used as either a main light or fill light.
Find some photos you like and find out what they were shot with (even if you have to email the photographer).
Look at the web sites of some of the major modifier manufacturers. Many of them have photos taken with various types of modifiers, and some have tutorials on them. The first three on the list all have good video tutorials.
Even if you're considering a no-name Chinese soft box, check the major manufacturers' sites to learn about various types of modifiers.
There are also many tutorials on the web including on youtube. These generally show not only how to use a particular light – but the photos that resulted from it.
Umbrellas are versatile and cheap by modifier standards. There are two types – shoot-through and those that serve as large reflectors. They come with white and silver material for reflectance. I prefer white. Some people prefer silver. Reflectance-type umbrellas that have a black backing on top of the reflecting material (like the Photogenic Eclipse) give you better control of the light and help keep it from bounding all around the studio.
When people started using umbrellas as reflectors, many photographers (including me) used a medium umbrella for the main light and a large one for the fill.
The Westcott Halo mono is versatile and relatively inexpensive. It's part softbox, part shoot-through umbrella and part octobox. Sometimes I use it as the main light. It's the modifier that I most use for the fill light. It attaches like an umbrella, so you won't need a speed ring for it. I have four of them - two at home and two at the studio.
In softboxes, what some manufacturers call medium (roughly 2x3 feet) I consider small. What they call large (roughly 3x4 feet) I consider medium. What they call XL (roughly 4x6 feet) I consider large. I find the large ones (about 3x4 feet) to be the most useful and versatile. Don’t get an XL unless you have plenty of space.
If you'll be lighting backgrounds, take that into consideration. Many types of modifiers aren't well suited to backgrounds.
For background lighting, I use standard 7-inch reflectors (often two of them). Some photographers use softboxes. There are reflectors that are designed for background lighting, but they're mostly for formal portraiture.
Be sure that what you get will work together with some versatility. I find a dish and a strip light each to be very useful – but not together. The combination of the two would be very limiting if you have no other options.
Talk to other photographers. Maybe your friends will let you test drive some of their modifiers.
Personally I don’t care for ring lights – but some photographers swear by them. I’ve used one ring light (Paul Buff’s) – and it drove me nuts because I couldn’t zoom the lens without pulling it out of the ring. Better to learn things like that before you buy rather than after.
There are several PLMs. Some are silver but others have white that you can either shoot through, cover with black outside, silver inside to make a regular type umbrella or go one more step and add a diffusion covering to make it softbox-ish. They are also some of the best umbrellas I have ever bought. Nice build quality. I'd highly recommend them to anyone.
I agree. I've got 2 silver, 2 white shoot thrus and 2 45" white satin and when I bought the PLM with the black backing, it worked wonders in comparison.
I just got my own little lady boner at the mention of Film Noir style lighting. Thats def something that interests me and what makes me want to be a control freak with lighting.
I just get nervous when I read so many people swearing by the beauty dishes.
I want to give myself some versatility for my first start up set - the softbox is pretty mandatory ( though id of preferred to get the octobox but prize wise im trying to get the most for what i have...square it is T_T ) I guess i was just on the fence about what would be most usefull for controlling light and throwing it when i need to play outdoors.
Im used to playing with available light so i dont plan on standing in the middle of Vegas n battling out THAT sun. So im hoping my b800 will be still usefull in all the woods and shadowed locations i often shoot at without having to buy the 11" reflector ( but boy if that doesnt create a powerful Beam O_O )
Edit: Iv been doing plenty of HW and sadly my shoot style is as all over the place as my interests but perhaps my wallet doesnt agree with both of them lol Which is why im stuck limiting myself at this start up point. Iv seen so many things done with a beauty dish and many one light wonders its just frustrating to figure out what is the more versatile in terms of grids, beauty dishes etc
I had a chance to play with some umbrellas- shoot through, black, white, silver- u name it. I HATED the spill. As a fill it was fine but i just felt like i didnt have the control over what i was lighting
Unseelie Allure wrote: I just got my own little lady boner at the mention of Film Noir style lighting. Thats def something that interests me and what makes me want to be a control freak with lighting.
I just get nervous when I read so many people swearing by the beauty dishes.
I want to give myself some versatility for my first start up set - the softbox is pretty mandatory ( though id of preferred to get the octobox but prize wise im trying to get the most for what i have...square it is T_T ) I guess i was just on the fence about what would be most usefull for controlling light and throwing it when i need to play outdoors.
Im used to playing with available light so i dont plan on standing in the middle of vegas n battling out THAT sun. So im hoping my b800 will be still usefull in all the woods and shadowed locations i often shoot at without having to buy the 11" reflector ( but boy if that doesnt create a powerful Beam O_O )
For noir lighting, I like to use 7-inch reflectors with four-way barn doors and strip lights. Unless you have a couple of spotlights, of course.
I have a couple of Tallyns F-16 Turbo Spot (the original, not the Plus) modifiers that I'm anxious to use for noir. They're made primarily for projecting patterns on the background (like a cookie or a scrim), but they also make a mean spotlight.
Beauty dish is my favorite modifier for indoor and outdoor. I am bummed though that I sold my old Paul Buff beauty dish as the quality was way better than their current versions.
Definitely second the Calumet air cushioned stands. Very well built, sturdy, great for location shooting, and good price. I made the mistake of buying one of the AB stands and they are damn cheap.
I also have a PLM...just warned...the big one is MASSIVE and you will need a big studio for it. I have mid size one and it is very nice. Big light source = soft light and these type of umbrellas are great for soft full body light. I would never take it outside though, but have seen people use 2 of the big ones outdoors to light team photos for an entire football team...tons of sand bags though as you can imagine.
Fotografica Gregor wrote: A quality beauty dish is very versatile - most of my images and publications were shot with beauty dishes - mostly the Molas (Setti and Euro)
+1
Love my Molas!
You can't buy a studio overnight. Do it bit by bit. A soft box today, a boom tomorrow and a dish next week But good quality strobes are definitely worth it. It's an investment. I can recommend the more affordable Visatec strobes by Broncolor, which I started out with.
www.visatec.com
As far as soft boxes, octo or square, both. Some occasions ask for different shapes (also not limited to just 1 each). And Photoflex's are great.
But again, you don't have to buy everything in one go. Get a quality product first and add equipment as you go.
I think Buff has a lot of great stuff for the money. Really a place to go when you are on a tight budget.
If you want the softest look on the skin and do a lot of head shots, I would go with a soft box or octo box in the studio. The PLM gives a little harder light which a lot of people like.
Outside and on location, umbrellas are great because the are the lowest cost modifier you can get, if they get damaged, you really haven't lost a lot; easier to transport and fast to set-up. Wind can always be a problem outdoors and it doesn't take much to blow over a light with an umbrella, so get some sandbags or other weights to hold them down.
Definitely second the Calumet air cushioned stands. Very well built, sturdy, great for location shooting, and good price. I made the mistake of buying one of the AB stands and they are damn cheap.
<snip>
I forgot to mention stands. I have several of the 13-foot Photogenic air-cushioned stands at the studio and in my location kit. However, I've added one 10.5-foot C-stand with a grip arm, and I'll add more - mainly because the legs are better suited to holding sandbags (to stabilize the stand with large and/or heavy modifiers) without tne sandbags sliding off.
Also, I use this stand with a heavy boom (counterweighted) with my 33.5-inch Mola Euro dish:
The last thing I want is a stand that's supporting a dish directly over the model toppling over. I think this thing would support my car, if there was a way to attach it. If this is the junior, I wonder what the senior looks like!
Unseelie Allure wrote: haha my midnight posting wasnt that clear, im sorry guys! the 1200 budget isnt JUST for the mods rofl thats for the stands, and 2 lights as well.
Which grids do you find most helpful for a spot light?The 11" reflector seemed...fairly sexy with the concentration and throw for outdoor shooting but you really dont see many people talking about it.
Most ppl seem to lean with a soft box and beauty dish when iv been asking about on the forums?
I have the 11", mainly use them for sports as they are a longer throw. I use the 7" with just a grid a lot as well as large softboxes with a grids for full body and I prefer using my octoboxes for a main for the round catch light...
Outdoors, the white or silver beauty dish on an ab1600 is hard to beat, they tend to stand up to the wind much better than umbrellas and softboxes and give you a slightly larger light source.
One light with a gridded beauty dish. Put the sock on the beauty and it now becomes a small softbox. You'll also need a "heavy duty" light stand to support the weight. A boom arm would be helpful too.
"Iv duct taped cardboard boxes to lamps in the past...'
Kinda dangerous if you're using a 150 watt modeling lamp or bigger. Lots of heat.
Check your local thrift store (Goodwill, Volunteers of America, various religious support groups, etc.) for tin canisters used for specialty food items, Christmas cookies, etc. They come in a wide variety of shapes (square, cylindrical, etc.) and sizes, I look for cylindrical canisters 3.5 inches in diameter and 8 -12 inches long. A quick pass with a can opener on the bottom, and I've got a lightweight metal cylinder that will fit over the Alien Bee retainer fingers. Cost -- generally a buck or so. They also have various internal finishes, so look for those that are 'polished aluminum' looking on the inside,
Caution: a metal cylinder WILL get hot, but they won't set your place on fire. They MIGHT burn you if you forget and grab them immediately after using the flash.
If you get a metal nibbling tool (I like the Adel tool... http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,4499.html but available from lots of other places ), you can use larger diameter canisters by only cutting out a 3.5 inch hole in the bottom. The tool is not expensive (about $20) and will last forever if you treat it reasonably.
I use AB folding soft boxes. They aren't that expensive and work very well and are well built. I have also heard good things about Fotodiox boxes in terms of price/performance and in fact have ordered a couple of tall (80") strip boxes to see how that goes.
Also, look on ebay for a seller in California that has 22" beauty dishes. I bought an AB mount beauty dish with grid and diffuser and its probably on 90% of the images in my port. It was about 100 bucks and 100 bucks well spent.
Finally, if you have Trader Joes near you, their standard size coffee cans make awesome snoots. Just cut the bottom out with a can opener and they fit the AB mount perfectly.
I would buy two 800 units, not a 4 and an 8. That way they are interchangable. Overtime add more and more lights, till you get to 6 and then see if you actually need any more than that.
Buy two black backed white umbrellas and wait on the rest of the stuff.
It depends on what you are shooting. People or products. As far as boxes go, there are: 2x3, 3x4, 4x5 foot softboxes. Each one does something different. I like the kind with the recessed front and removable fronts and interior baffles. Oh and a grid is nice. I also like strip lights in the 10x30 size. This way I can modify the specularith by adding or removing the baffles.
I have a the Silver beauty dish as I can put the sock on it for the white effect. It is more powerful when I have to use it outdoors.
Buy a standard reflector for each AB and get two set of grid spots. I normally use two of the same angle rather than two different ones, and it will depend on the shot which one you need.
Buy a better quality stand like the Manfroto quick click stands.
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