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Offering a shoot to a different model
Hi folks, I recently had an idea for a shoot I wanted to do and suggested it to a model. She read the message here but didn't reply, so after a week with no answer i assumed she wasn't interested and i offered the shoot to another model. Then after 2 weeks the original model replies saying sorry she had been busy but was very interested. I would have thought a short reply upon reading my message, to say she was currently busy but was interested in doing the shoot in a few weeks time would have been the correct thing. What are some other views, how long would you expect a photographer to wait before offering a shoot to someone else? Photographers; how long would you wait? Dec 13 12 05:48 am Link Snooze you lose.  I'd just say sorry, you found other talent for the project, but you'll keep her in mind for any future projects. When I get called to castings or bookings from my agency they're generally day-of, maybe if I'm lucky a day or two advance notice. Sometimes if it's a general 'client needs extras' kind of thing, it's the first people to reply who get booked. People are busy, there's no time to wait. Dec 13 12 05:50 am Link Just had this happen. I asked if she was interested and she said she was - few days went by and nothing. I found another model instead. Original model was pissy...but no matter to me. If I asked one of my employees to do something - and for a few days it wasn't done - that employee would get fired. If you are serious, this is a job and should be treated as such. Dec 13 12 06:06 am Link I assume you're talking about TF rather than a shoot for a client. I work a little bit differently in that I don't plan a shoot around any model with whom I don't already have a working relationship. Instead, I offer an opportunity to shoot in general around concepts that we develop together or within a list of genres that interest me at the moment. If it's a shoot for a client, I see no reason to not submit simultaneously to several models that you think could do the job, a sort of "preferred list" casting call if you will, letting them know that this is what you're doing, of course, and giving them a "please respond by" date, and then choosing from among the respondents. That way no need to wait more than a couple of days. IMHO, as always. Dec 13 12 06:48 am Link I would just shoot the same theme with both models on different days. Dec 13 12 06:54 am Link I would reply within a day or two at the longest, and let them know that I was either interested or I wasn't. If for some reason I did not reply right away, then I would not be bothered if the concept was offered to someone else after a couple of days. Sometimes there are deadlines or it is a seasonal thing or a class assignment and they need to have it completed rather quickly. Dec 13 12 07:05 am Link A couple of days is more than enough to wait, less even depending on the project. Time waits for no man. Dec 14 12 06:55 pm Link Well we do all get busy but how many of us carry a thing around all the time called a phone that also gets e mail lol L2 Dec 14 12 07:01 pm Link If she really wanted the shoot, she should have communicated with you when she read the message. its not that hard to take a minute to say "i am interested but not free until x date, does that work for you?" something. she didnt. she waited a couple weeks, you found another model. its her loss. Dec 14 12 08:23 pm Link Rays Fine Art wrote: ^^this^^ Dec 14 12 08:27 pm Link Be happy. If she can not find 2 minutes to reply, then how can she possibly find 2 hours to shoot? Dec 14 12 08:38 pm Link Jordan Bunniie wrote: BINGO! Dec 14 12 08:39 pm Link Like someone else said, "you snooze you lose!" BUT, if it's not too difficult, why not shoot both models, at different times, ofcourse ... after all, you never know, maybe "sleeping beauty" might come up with some good poses for you! :-) Dec 14 12 08:44 pm Link JC Strick wrote: +1 So true BurningImageIreland wrote: You are right she was really not interested....despite receiving assurances after 2 weeks to the contrary. Now many models read messages on phone or other devise and want to wait to respond once they get on a Computer, but then they forget and then come up with an excuse. Ultimately if they really want to shoot they will respond. Dec 14 12 09:09 pm Link Just because MM lists a message as "read" does not actually mean it was read for comprehension. Many people, myself include, will often open up a message to make sure there wasn't any time sensitive information that I needed to know about. Especially if I'm on the road. Also MM doesn't have a mobile phone app (despite the members clamoring for one for literally years), which makes it difficult to respond to message if they're reading it on that mobile device. Dec 14 12 09:12 pm Link BurningImageIreland wrote: To specifically answer this question... Dec 14 12 09:14 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: True, however it should not be any Offerer's problem to worry if someone comprehends the offer and realize the need to give response in a reasonable amount of time (or by response date). Dec 14 12 09:21 pm Link Jordan Bunniie wrote: What Bunniie said! Dec 14 12 09:31 pm Link BodyIndustry wrote: As someone mentioned earlier, if he needs a response by a certain date, it'd behoove the person to state that. Dec 14 12 09:45 pm Link I have had it where a photographer called me to do a certain themed shoot. We set-up a date to shoot. Then the day before the shoot, I sent a message to confirm only to get a reply back that he had shot that theme with a different model. I responded promptly and followed up accordingly. He contacted me for the shoot. So I was really surprised. But I digress. In answer to the original OP, if a response isn't in a day or two a model can't realistically expect the opportunity to still be there. He/she can ask, but not be surprised if the opportunity doesn't exist. This is especially true if you see that a message was read and no reply. It only takes a minute to respond. Dec 14 12 09:52 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: If one has a "life" as you say and that life precludes them from responding to offers in a reasonable amount of time then they should not be crying (after the fact) if opportunities are given to others due to thier nonresponsiveness. Nor is it the Offeror's problem. Offer to someone else and move on. Dec 14 12 09:59 pm Link This happens quite a bit. However, once you find the models that really want to shoot you'll have a nice network of models that are ready to shoot as soon as you make the offer. Dec 14 12 10:00 pm Link Misty R H wrote: +1 Dec 14 12 10:04 pm Link BodyIndustry wrote: You just hit the nail on the head w/o realizing it. Its all a question of whether what is & is not a "reasonable" amount of time. Dec 14 12 10:58 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: No, I said this in my first response. For some reason you wanted to quote me then reply with the same although different way that basically said the same thing I said. Dec 14 12 11:09 pm Link BodyIndustry wrote: Care to elaborate? Dec 14 12 11:16 pm Link it's like the way we book weddings, first come, first served. can you do the idea with both llamas? Dec 14 12 11:16 pm Link Who do you want to shoot with? I suggest you shoot with that person if they are agreeable. Dec 15 12 12:17 pm Link If the original message is read.. and possibly a second "Interested"? message.. and no reply is received within a week, then I move on to another model.. So far that has happened twice.. and the second model nailed the shots!.. There is one shot that I'm holding out for a particular model though, and will not substitute another!.. Dec 15 12 12:29 pm Link I expect the photographer to move on in 2 days if I have not given a response. I do not hold it against them either, because it is my responsibility to be timely with coordinating shoots. Dec 15 12 12:30 pm Link I had a similar thing happen to me, though the situation was the morning of a shoot and the model messages me telling me she's sick and cannot do the shoot (I believe her, as I've worked with her before). So I text a model to see if she's available (and explained why), she responds asking for more details, then doesn't respond. With no response, I follow up with another model and she's available, so I lock her in. After about 90 mins, the first model I texted responds back and says she's available. I respond, telling her that because I didn't hear back from her after 90 mins, I assumed she wasn't interested and I moved on. Thankfully, I think she took it well. Dec 16 12 02:19 am Link model emily wrote: +1 +1 +1 +1 +3492380283424 Dec 16 12 02:47 am Link BurningImageIreland wrote: You probably dodged a bullet with that model. Dec 16 12 04:13 am Link For me it depends on the deadline and the model. If I have time and really like a specific model I will wait as long as necessary. Normally I will send the same offer to 2-3 models I think will work and the first one that jumps gets the job. My regulars know that it is first come first served. Dec 16 12 04:22 am Link So, how many times have you read in the forums here "I inquired, but got no response?" And the consensus has been "no response IS a response: to wit, she doesn't want to work with you." Hang around a bit, the number will mount into the thousands. My personal opinion is that this is a business, you have to treat it as such, and if you don't respond within 48 hours, you aren't business worthy, you are a "dilettante" and I don't need you mucking up my business, goodbye, good luck, and NEXT! And no, I don't care if your computer just blew up. A business has backups of their stuff and a way to access them (poor? can't afford a second backup computer? ever heard of "the library?") Or you are on the road somewhere. A business person checks their email at least daily. See the paragraph above. What's more, I rarely ask a second time. Didn't get a positive response? It evidently means get lost, you aren't worth their time, so I do. Can't begin to tell you how many wannabes have lost how many jobs because they can't be bothered communicating in timely fashion. Dec 17 12 07:43 pm Link Generally, if I did not reply in a timely manner I would be just fine if you offered the idea to someone else. I think 48 hours would be long enough to wait. Certainly if I had not responded in a week I cannot see being offended if you offered it to someone else. I might be disappointed if I missed out because I was unable to check my messages or whatever, but not at all offended. Now, had you offered it to both of us at the same time, and only intended to shoot both of us, then used us to negotiate against each other... that would not be okay. I had a photographer do that once. He offered the shoot to me, then when I responded he said Model B was willing to do it, but she had this, so what kind of deal could I cut him on my rates? I was planning to give him a damn good rate as the project was just an hour and not really nude, but what he did was just rude and I do not play those games. So I told him I was glad he found someone for the project and to keep me in mind in the future. But models need to understand that you may be on a time schedule and that means you cannot wait around forever for them. This is true in anything really, just part of how things work. Dec 18 12 09:23 am Link one should have lots of ideas cooking. shoot her with another concept. you do have more than one, right? Dec 18 12 09:29 am Link You said she responded after a couple weeks and that you informed her you had already filled the project. Did she take exception to that? Or did she realize that she waited too long and missed out? I hope it's the latter. I can see a model overlooking a message and then going back over them and thinking, "Shoot, I forgot to respond. Let's see if it's still available." That will happen (even though it doesn't exactly convey a great initial interest on her part). I know we're all self-centered, but I can't imagine even the most self-absorbed thinking that you were just sitting around the house, waiting two weeks for a response and then copping an attitude when informed they missed out. Dec 18 12 09:51 am Link BurningImageIreland wrote: As a model, if I am not quick to respond within a day at MOST, I better be dead! I have access to MM, email, social networks on my phone, on my laptop, at the library! Especially if it concerns the fact that I was already speaking to an artist regarding a collaboration...I will find a way to respond as best/as quick as I can. Dec 18 12 10:03 am Link Had something similar happen last summer. I had finished the shoot about two weeks when the origional model replied, saying that she hadn't checked her mail for weeks but was interested. Lectured me about false offers, said I should have waited for her to turn me down before offering to someone else. I know one model I wont be offering work to again. Dec 18 12 10:08 am Link |
