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Photographer
BurningImageIreland
Posts: 8
Kildare, Kildare, Ireland


Hi folks,

I recently had an idea for a shoot I wanted to do and suggested it to a model. She read the message here but didn't reply, so after a week with no answer i assumed she wasn't interested and i offered the shoot to another model. Then after 2 weeks the original model replies saying sorry she had been busy but was very interested.

I would have thought a short reply upon reading my message, to say she was currently busy but was interested in doing the shoot in a few weeks time would have been the correct thing.

What are some other views, how long would you expect a photographer to wait before offering a shoot to someone else? Photographers; how long would you wait?
Dec 13 12 05:48 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Snooze you lose. smile

I'd just say sorry, you found other talent for the project, but you'll keep her in mind for any future projects.

When I get called to castings or bookings from my agency they're generally day-of, maybe if I'm lucky a day or two advance notice.  Sometimes if it's a general 'client needs extras' kind of thing, it's the first people to reply who get booked.  People are busy, there's no time to wait.
Dec 13 12 05:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravoscape
Posts: 259
Frederick, Maryland, US


Just had this happen. I asked if she was interested and she said she was - few days went by and nothing. I found another model instead. Original model was pissy...but no matter to me.

If I asked one of my employees to do something - and for a few days it wasn't done - that employee would get fired. If you are serious, this is a job and should be treated as such.
Dec 13 12 06:06 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,996
New York, New York, US


I assume you're talking about TF rather than a shoot for a client.  I work a little bit differently in that I don't plan a shoot around any model with whom I don't already have a working relationship.  Instead, I offer an opportunity to shoot in general around  concepts that we develop together or within a list of genres that interest me at the moment.

If it's a shoot for a client, I see no reason to not submit simultaneously to several models that you think could do the job, a sort of "preferred list" casting call if you will, letting them know that this is what you're doing, of course, and giving them a "please respond by" date, and then choosing from among the respondents.  That way no need to wait more than a couple of days.

IMHO, as always.
Dec 13 12 06:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
intense_puppy
Posts: 864
Brighton, England, United Kingdom


I would just shoot the same theme with both models on different days.
Dec 13 12 06:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MatureModelMM
Posts: 955
Detroit, Michigan, US


I would reply within a day or two at the longest, and let them know that I was either interested or I wasn't.  If for some reason I did not reply right away, then I would not be bothered if the concept was offered to someone else after a couple of days.

Sometimes there are deadlines or it is a seasonal thing or a class assignment and they need to have it completed rather quickly.
Dec 13 12 07:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


A couple of days is more than enough to wait, less even depending on the project.

Time waits for no man.
Dec 14 12 06:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L2Photography net
Posts: 2,512
University City, Missouri, US


Well we do all get busy but how many of us carry a thing around all the time called a phone that also gets e mail lol
L2
Dec 14 12 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1,628
Los Angeles, California, US


If she really wanted the shoot, she should have communicated with you when she read the message.
its not that hard to take a minute to say "i am interested but not free until x date, does that work for you?"
something.

she didnt. she waited a couple weeks, you found another model.
its her loss.
Dec 14 12 08:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marc Damon
Posts: 6,562
Biloxi, Mississippi, US


Rays Fine Art wrote:
I assume you're talking about TF rather than a shoot for a client.  I work a little bit differently in that I don't plan a shoot around any model with whom I don't already have a working relationship.  Instead, I offer an opportunity to shoot in general around  concepts that we develop together or within a list of genres that interest me at the moment.

If it's a shoot for a client, I see no reason to not submit simultaneously to several models that you think could do the job, a sort of "preferred list" casting call if you will, letting them know that this is what you're doing, of course, and giving them a "please respond by" date, and then choosing from among the respondents.  That way no need to wait more than a couple of days.

IMHO, as always.

^^this^^

Dec 14 12 08:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JC Strick
Posts: 643
Dalton, Georgia, US


Be happy.

If she can not find 2 minutes to reply, then how can she possibly find 2 hours to shoot?
Dec 14 12 08:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13,021
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Jordan Bunniie wrote:
If she really wanted the shoot, she should have communicated with you when she read the message.
its not that hard to take a minute to say "i am interested but not free until x date, does that work for you?"
something.

she didnt. she waited a couple weeks, you found another llama.
its her loss.

BINGO!

Dec 14 12 08:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Smitty s Photography
Posts: 80
Sacramento, California, US


Like someone else said, "you snooze you lose!" 

BUT, if it's not too difficult, why not shoot both models, at different times, ofcourse ... after all, you never know, maybe "sleeping beauty" might come up with some good poses for you!   :-)
Dec 14 12 08:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BodyIndustry
Posts: 268
Washington, District of Columbia, US


JC Strick wrote:
Be happy.

If she can not find 2 minutes to reply, then how can she possibly find 2 hours to shoot?

+1 So true

BurningImageIreland wrote:
Hi folks,

I recently had an idea for a shoot I wanted to do and suggested it to a model. She read the message here but didn't reply, so after a week with no answer I assumed she wasn't interested

You are right she was really not interested....despite receiving assurances after 2 weeks to the contrary. Now many models read messages on phone or other devise and want to wait to respond once they get on a Computer, but then they forget and then come up with an excuse.  Ultimately if they really want to shoot they will respond.

1. Within your offer you should have communicated a respond by date. If they do not respond by date. The offer is rescinded.

2.  If option (1) is not done. Then once an offer is communicated depending on the proposed shoot date, I give 2-5 days for response. If I do not get a response I may send one follow up with a defined response requested by date. No response I send a follow up cancelling shoot plans.

First come first response gets the job/opportunity….. Slow or non responsive doesn’t get the job.

Dec 14 12 09:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,904
Albany, New York, US


Just because MM lists a message as "read" does not actually mean it was read for comprehension. Many people, myself include, will often open up a message to make sure there wasn't any time sensitive information that I needed to know about. Especially if I'm on the road.

Also MM doesn't have a mobile phone app (despite the members clamoring for one for literally years), which makes it difficult to respond to message if they're reading it on that mobile device.
Dec 14 12 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,904
Albany, New York, US


BurningImageIreland wrote:
What are some other views, how long would you expect a photographer to wait before offering a shoot to someone else? Photographers; how long would you wait?

To specifically answer this question...

Send out multiple messages. First person to schedule something is first served, especially if its a hard to arrange one-time shoot (like w/ a full crew).

Or better yet, hire an agency model for their likely reliability in actually showing up.

Dec 14 12 09:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BodyIndustry
Posts: 268
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
Just because MM lists a message as "read" does not actually mean it was read for comprehension.

True, however it should not be any Offerer's problem to worry if someone comprehends the offer and realize the need to give response in a reasonable amount of time (or by response date).

Dec 14 12 09:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RLA Photo
Posts: 222
Lake Elsinore, California, US


Jordan Bunniie wrote:
If she really wanted the shoot, she should have communicated with you when she read the message.
its not that hard to take a minute to say "i am interested but not free until x date, does that work for you?"
something.

she didnt. she waited a couple weeks, you found another model.
its her loss.

What Bunniie said!

Dec 14 12 09:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,904
Albany, New York, US


BodyIndustry wrote:
True, however it should not be any Offerer's problem to worry if someone comprehends the offer and realize the need to give response in a reasonable amount of time (or by response date).

As someone mentioned earlier, if he needs a response by a certain date, it'd behoove the person to state that.

People do have a thing called a life & cannot be expected to respond lickety-split each & every time I open a message. Shit, I've had a couple of people freak the eff out when they saw their message was "read" & I didn't respond that same day. Sorry but I'm not going to give a quick, crap response when my mind isn't there to give it the thought-out response that it deserves. If this causes me to lose out on opportunities, to bad - so sad - life goes on.

Dec 14 12 09:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Misty R H
Posts: 471
Anaheim, California, US


I have had it where a photographer called me to do a certain themed shoot.  We set-up a date to shoot.  Then the day before the shoot, I sent a message to confirm only to get a reply back that he had shot that theme with a different model.

I responded promptly and followed up accordingly. He contacted me for the shoot. So I was really surprised. 

But I digress. In answer to the original OP, if a response isn't in a day or two a model can't realistically expect the opportunity to still be there.  He/she can ask, but not be surprised if the opportunity doesn't exist.  This is especially true if you see that a message was read and no reply.  It only takes a minute to respond.
Dec 14 12 09:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BodyIndustry
Posts: 268
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
As someone mentioned earlier, if he needs a response by a certain date, it'd behoove the person to state that.

People do have a thing called a life & cannot be expected to respond lickety-split each & every time I open a message. Shit, I've had a couple of people freak the eff out when they saw their message was "read" & I didn't respond that same day. Sorry but I'm not going to give a quick, crap response when my mind isn't there to give it the thought-out response that it deserves. If this causes me to lose out on opportunities, to bad - so sad - life goes on.

If one has a "life" as you say and that life precludes them from responding to offers in a reasonable amount of time then they should not be crying (after the fact) if opportunities are given to others due to thier nonresponsiveness. Nor is it the Offeror's problem. Offer to someone else and move on.

Dec 14 12 09:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
D S P
Posts: 510
Portland, Oregon, US


This happens quite a bit.

However, once you find the models that really want to shoot you'll have a nice network of models that are ready to shoot as soon as you make the offer.
Dec 14 12 10:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BodyIndustry
Posts: 268
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Misty R H wrote:
I have had it where a photographer called me to do a certain themed shoot.  We set-up a date to shoot.  Then the day before the shoot, I sent a message to confirm only to get a reply back that he had shot that theme with a different model.

I responded promptly and followed up accordingly. He contacted me for the shoot. So I was really surprised. 

But I digress. In answer to the original OP, if a response isn't in a day or two a model can't realistically expect the opportunity to still be there.  He/she can ask, but not be surprised if the opportunity doesn't exist.  This is especially true if you see that a message was read and no reply.  It only takes a minute to respond.

+1

Sorry this happened to you since it seemed you did respond in a reasonable timeframe and appropriately. I would say the photographer let you down or misunderstood something.

Dec 14 12 10:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,904
Albany, New York, US


BodyIndustry wrote:
If one has a "life" as you say and that life precludes them from responding to offers in a reasonable amount of time then they should not be crying (after the fact) if opportunities are given to others due to thier nonresponsiveness. Nor is it the Offeror's problem. Offer to someone else and move on.

You just hit the nail on the head w/o realizing it. Its all a question of whether what is & is not a "reasonable" amount of time.

Let's use a different frame of reference like TF* picture turnaround time. I know many others have a 3-days or less turnaround time. Me personal, I'm lucky if I even upload my pictures to my computer in under 2 weeks, an ungodly long time for other but perfectly "reasonable" for me. I generally have a 30-day turnaround time, an "unreasonably" amount of time for many others but perfectly "reasonable" for myself.

Point being that w/o telling the person they need a yes/no response by such & such a date, you can't expect people to be mindreaders. If stuff falls through because lack of communication, its not really anyone's fault. It just is what it is.

Dec 14 12 10:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BodyIndustry
Posts: 268
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
You just hit the nail on the head w/o realizing it.

No, I said this in my first response. For some reason you wanted to quote me then reply with the same although different way that basically said the same thing I said.

Your second analogy is not fundamentally relevant.

Dec 14 12 11:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,904
Albany, New York, US


BodyIndustry wrote:
Your second analogy is not fundamentally relevant.

Care to elaborate?

Dec 14 12 11:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,270
Salem, Oregon, US


it's like the way we book weddings, first come, first served. can you do the idea with both llamas?
Dec 14 12 11:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,330
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Who do you want to shoot with? I suggest you shoot with that person if they are agreeable.
Dec 15 12 12:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
toesup
Posts: 1,028
Templeton, California, US


If the original message is read.. and possibly a second "Interested"? message.. and no reply is received within a week, then I move on to another model..

So far that has happened twice.. and the second model nailed the shots!..

There is one shot that I'm holding out for a particular model though, and will not substitute another!..
Dec 15 12 12:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
E e v a
Posts: 1,724
Nashville, Tennessee, US


I expect the photographer to move on in 2 days if I have not given a response. I do not hold it against them either, because it is my responsibility to be timely with coordinating shoots.
Dec 15 12 12:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GoldieImages
Posts: 134
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


I had a similar thing happen to me, though the situation was the morning of a shoot and the model messages me telling me she's sick and cannot do the shoot (I believe her, as I've worked with her before). So I text a model to see if she's available (and explained why), she responds asking for more details, then doesn't respond. With no response, I follow up with another model and she's available, so I lock her in.

After about 90 mins, the first model I texted responds back and says she's available. I respond, telling her that because I didn't hear back from her after 90 mins, I assumed she wasn't interested and I moved on. Thankfully, I think she took it well.
Dec 16 12 02:19 am  Link  Quote 
Model
IDiivil
Posts: 3,958
Burbank, California, US


model emily  wrote:
Snooze you lose. smile

I'd just say sorry, you found other talent for the project, but you'll keep her in mind for any future projects.

When I get called to castings or bookings from my agency they're generally day-of, maybe if I'm lucky a day or two advance notice.  Sometimes if it's a general 'client needs extras' kind of thing, it's the first people to reply who get booked.  People are busy, there's no time to wait.

+1 +1 +1 +1 +3492380283424

Yep. It's nice of her to finally reply and give an explanation and whatnot, but it is what it is. She missed out.

Dec 16 12 02:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 2,310
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


BurningImageIreland wrote:
She read the message here but didn't reply, so after a week with no answer i assumed she wasn't interested and i offered the shoot to another model.

You probably dodged a bullet with that model. 

I allow anyone a day or two to reply after reading a message, but the general pattern is that the longer the delay in replying, the less likely is a shoot to happen.

If you take the advice to shoot both models, don't be surprised if the late responder flakes.

Dec 16 12 04:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alan Agus
Posts: 3
Jakarta, Jakarta, Indonesia


For me it depends on the deadline and the model.  If I have time and really like a specific model I will wait as long as necessary.

Normally I will send the same offer to 2-3 models I think will work and the first one that jumps gets the job.  My regulars know that it is first come first served.
Dec 16 12 04:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael DBA Expressions
Posts: 3,148
Lynchburg, Virginia, US


So, how many times have you read in the forums here "I inquired, but got no response?" And the consensus has been "no response IS a response: to wit, she doesn't want to work with you."

Hang around a bit, the number will mount into the thousands.

My personal opinion is that this is a business, you have to treat it as such, and if you don't respond within 48 hours, you aren't business worthy, you are a "dilettante" and I don't need you mucking up my business, goodbye, good luck, and NEXT!

And no, I don't care if your computer just blew up. A business has backups of their stuff and a way to access them (poor? can't afford a second backup computer? ever heard of "the library?") Or you are on the road somewhere. A business person checks their email at least daily. See the paragraph above.

What's more, I rarely ask a second time. Didn't get a positive response? It evidently means get lost, you aren't worth their time, so I do. Can't begin to tell you how many wannabes have lost how many jobs because they can't be bothered communicating in timely fashion.
Dec 17 12 07:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,879
Detroit, Michigan, US


Generally, if I did not reply in a timely manner I would be just fine if you offered the idea to someone else. I think 48 hours would be long enough to wait. Certainly if I had not responded in a week I cannot see being offended if you offered it to someone else. I might be disappointed if I missed out because I was unable to check my messages or whatever, but not at all offended.

Now, had you offered it to both of us at the same time, and only intended to shoot both of us, then used us to negotiate against each other... that would not be okay. I had a photographer do that once. He offered the shoot to me,  then when I responded he said Model B was willing to do it, but she had this, so what kind of deal could I cut him on my rates? I was planning to give him a damn good rate as the project was just an hour and not really nude, but what he did was just rude and I do not play those games. So I told him I was glad he found someone for the project and to keep me in mind in the future.

But models need to understand that you may be on a time schedule and that means you cannot wait around forever for them. This is true in anything really, just part of how things work.
Dec 18 12 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
nyk fury
Posts: 2,918
Port Townsend, Washington, US


one should have lots of ideas cooking. shoot her with another concept. you do have more than one, right?
Dec 18 12 09:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


You said she responded after a couple weeks and that you informed her you had already filled the project. Did she take exception to that? Or did she realize that she waited too long and missed out? I hope it's the latter.

I can see a model overlooking a message and then going back over them and thinking, "Shoot, I forgot to respond. Let's see if it's still available." That will happen (even though it doesn't exactly convey a great initial interest on her part).

I know we're all self-centered, but I can't imagine even the most self-absorbed thinking that you were just sitting around the house, waiting two weeks for a response and then copping an attitude when informed they missed out.
Dec 18 12 09:51 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Melodye Joy
Posts: 542
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US


BurningImageIreland wrote:
Hi folks,

I recently had an idea for a shoot I wanted to do and suggested it to a model. She read the message here but didn't reply, so after a week with no answer i assumed she wasn't interested and i offered the shoot to another model. Then after 2 weeks the original model replies saying sorry she had been busy but was very interested.

I would have thought a short reply upon reading my message, to say she was currently busy but was interested in doing the shoot in a few weeks time would have been the correct thing.

What are some other views, how long would you expect a photographer to wait before offering a shoot to someone else? Photographers; how long would you wait?

As a model, if I am not quick to respond within a day at MOST, I better be dead! I have access to MM, email, social networks on my phone, on my laptop, at the library! Especially if it concerns the fact that I was already speaking to an artist regarding a collaboration...I will find a way to respond as best/as quick as I can.

I don't think your incorrect in going forward with someone else. You waited a few days for a response and when the time was nearing that you needed to move on and get the job/concept done, you did so.

Perhaps offer the first model another project or if you wish, shoot both models for the same project and just have twice the perfection!

Dec 18 12 10:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
D-Light
Posts: 564
Newcastle, Limerick, Ireland


Had something similar happen last summer. I had finished the shoot about two weeks when the origional model replied, saying that she hadn't checked her mail for weeks but was interested. Lectured me about false offers, said I should have waited for her to turn me down before offering to someone else.

I know one model I wont be offering work to again.
Dec 18 12 10:08 am  Link  Quote 
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