Ok so this will have been covered I've no doubt many times but im gonna ask it anyway..
Im really struggling to find the rates i should be offering to models for different types of work.
I have in the last 2 years moved from Europe to California and now to the East coast near NYC.
I can't find any consistency on rates...
I shoot predominantly nude work and what I used to pay in Europe differed greatly to what was required in CA... Now im in NJ the rates are almost impossible to read... what some very well established models ask for per hour for nude, another model will ask for 2 to 3 times the amount..
I Fully understand that all models value their time and talent individually but the differences here are so great that it makes it impossible to plan and cost a project..
Does anyone know of a kind of standard rate that is acceptable? Or is this just one of those things that I will have to learn to contend with...
Leximages76 wrote: Ok so this will have been covered I've no doubt many times but im gonna ask it anyway..
Im really struggling to find the rates i should be offering to models for different types of work.
I have in the last 2 years moved from Europe to California and now to the East coast near NYC.
I can't find any consistency on rates...
I shoot predominantly nude work and what I used to pay in Europe differed greatly to what was required in CA... Now im in NJ the rates are almost impossible to read... what some very well established models ask for per hour for nude, another model will ask for 2 to 3 times the amount..
I Fully understand that all models value their time and talent individually but the differences here are so great that it makes it impossible to plan and cost a project..
Does anyone know of a kind of standard rate that is acceptable? Or is this just one of those things that I will have to learn to contend with...
Standard? No such thing. Determine your budget. Find a few models with the look/skills you require. Ask their rates. Hopefully you find one or more that fits within the money you have available, if not, keep looking for the right model or get more money.
What people ask for and what people pay are 2 different things. It's negotiable. I'm in the DC area but I do alot of shooting in LA and San Diego. I am willing to pay quality models and I'm not ashamed to say so. I believe that you get what you pay for and a hard working model with years of experience brings alot to the table and deserves to be well compensated for her effort.
That being said, i think pay depends a lot on usage. Personally, I price according to usage. If I intend to sell the images, I will often pay a higher rate. If I'm testing, I will go low but still try to be fair ..not expecting to get any income off the images after the shoot but I still want to work on lighting or poses or some aspect of a shoot with a live model.
As a baseline, I pay $75 an hour for topless and $100 for nude. I usually shoot for 2 hours so each shoot is between $150 and $200. There are those models that are 'must haves' and I'll go up to $350 for a 2 hour nude shoot for them but they are elite and have the portfolio to justify the pay. I also know that I'll get 100+ awesome images that I can sell to easily make back the model fee.
If you have a budget for a shoot, simply offer your budget and see what happens. Many times, although I have rates, if someone comes to me with a reasonable offer I will be much more likely to just accept that rate than if they ask my rates and then counteroffer. I actually very rarely accept a counteroffer after my rates have been given.
Don't ask for their rates. Tell them what you're willing to offer. THEN, when they counter offer, you can come to an agreement, or move on. Asking first, then offering $20.00 hour isn't a good idea.
I can't comment on work here, but, if you have something to offer other than just money (portfolio quality files and/or prints), you'll find every model willing to negotiate. If not, they're absolutely going to ask for their full rates.
Also, the United States is the land of gimme gimme. If a glamour model has been getting $150.00 per hour on her last three shoots, regardless of her ability to pose, she's going to expect that. She'd rather not work for the next two weeks than receive a lesser amount.
Damianne wrote: If you have a budget for a shoot, simply offer your budget and see what happens. Many times, although I have rates, if someone comes to me with a reasonable offer I will be much more likely to just accept that rate than if they ask my rates and then counteroffer. I actually very rarely accept a counteroffer after my rates have been given.
Thanks, That is very sound advice.... now why aren't you NJ Based??? lol
C h a r l e s D wrote: Don't ask for their rates. Tell them what you're willing to offer. THEN, when they counter offer, you can come to an agreement, or move on. Asking first, then offering $20.00 hour isn't a good idea.
If I was offering only $20 then i would expect the tone of some of the responses i get!
I am always happy to negotiate but a model with little or no experience wanting $150 to $200 per hour for art nude seems excessive to me..
My budgets usually reasonably high but not that high.. That said i have worked and am about to work with some amazing models who charge a very reasonable rate so im not too worried.
My main point is that I started to feel like i didn't want to make an offer due to some of the responses i was getting
GoldRoseMedia
Posts: 2,708
NORTH BRUNSWICK, New Jersey, US
Leximages76 wrote: If I was offering only $20 then i would expect the tone of some of the responses i get!
I am always happy to negotiate but a model with little or no experience wanting $150 to $200 per hour for art nude seems excessive to me..
That is excessive. Tell those models to take a hike -- or better yet, don't respond to them at all.
GNapp Studios wrote: Your from Morristown. One of the best nude models is from Morristown and has reasonable rates...Jersey Kelly. #2497488.
Search no further, she is top notch.
Have worked with her and will be working with her again very soon.... As you say "one of the best" if not the best around here.... and yes her rates are sensible
Model rates are distorted by pretention but ultimately driven by market forces. Travelling pro models I know charge between $100-$150 an hour for N modelling because they know that with their reputation & experience it will give them a full weeks work. Inexperienced models should charge about half that, but some with unrealistic expectations charge more because they think they're the next big supermodel
"Art Nudes" can mean almost anything--What may be an art nude to you may be close to porn to someone else. And too, some models have different rates depending on how they see the intent of the work. Fairly discrete, clasic nudes may be one rate, but if the model feels that the work is likely to go beyond a certain, self-imposed boundary such as open leg the rates may go up significantly. You mght want to review your portfolio, lists and profile to see if there is anything there that might trip the higher rates.
Leximages76 wrote: If I was offering only $20 then i would expect the tone of some of the responses i get!
I am always happy to negotiate but a model with little or no experience wanting $150 to $200 per hour for art nude seems excessive to me..
My budgets usually reasonably high but not that high.. That said i have worked and am about to work with some amazing models who charge a very reasonable rate so im not too worried.
My main point is that I started to feel like i didn't want to make an offer due to some of the responses i was getting
Unless your version of "art nude" is very different than mine, there's no need to pay $200 an hour. You can fly in excellent models for less than that.
Leximages76 wrote: Ok so this will have been covered I've no doubt many times but im gonna ask it anyway..
Im really struggling to find the rates i should be offering to models for different types of work.
I have in the last 2 years moved from Europe to California and now to the East coast near NYC.
I can't find any consistency on rates...
I shoot predominantly nude work and what I used to pay in Europe differed greatly to what was required in CA... Now im in NJ the rates are almost impossible to read... what some very well established models ask for per hour for nude, another model will ask for 2 to 3 times the amount..
I Fully understand that all models value their time and talent individually but the differences here are so great that it makes it impossible to plan and cost a project..
Does anyone know of a kind of standard rate that is acceptable? Or is this just one of those things that I will have to learn to contend with...
The only standard is that there is no standard. The best rule of thumb is to be guided by the models portfolio. If she has 100 outstanding images in her port then she probably has the experience and the skills to justify paying her a higher rate. If a model has 10 crappy images then offer her a lot less.
Ask for her rates first and see how they compare to what you're willing to pay. If you're not that far apart make a counter offer. If you're far apart it's not likely you will come to an agreement so it's time to move on.
Rays Fine Art wrote: "Art Nudes" can mean almost anything--What may be an art nude to you may be close to porn to someone else. And too, some models have different rates depending on how they see the intent of the work. Fairly discrete, clasic nudes may be one rate, but if the model feels that the work is likely to go beyond a certain, self-imposed boundary such as open leg the rates may go up significantly. You mght want to review your portfolio, lists and profile to see if there is anything there that might trip the higher rates.
Surely the job dictates the rate? should a model go beyond her comfort level for more money?? No and the images would show discomfort and be poor in quality.
Art nude one rate , Erotica another!! A photographer and for that a model is free to work at various levels and as such pay or charge different rates for different levels.
I fail to see that if your portfolio has erotica in it then a model applying for art nude would charge you more? If you book a model for art nude and her port contains erotic or open leg do you just expect her to do that anyway for the same price??
Surely you agree limits before a shoot?? and agree a price accordingly??
Honestly I much prefer when people say "my budget is $x, does this work?"
I'd rather work with someone who is enjoyable, hiring me for multiple sessions, or offering a combination of barter and cash at a lower rate if that lower rate is what they can afford than not work with them at all.
Advertised rates are a starting point for negotiation, for me at least. So if someone approaches me and offers something lower, that's negotiation.
I have in the last 2 years moved from Europe to California and now to the East coast near NYC. ... I can't find any consistency on rates...
Does anyone know of a kind of standard rate that is acceptable? Or is this just one of those things that I will have to learn to contend with...
I think your experience is consistent with the general business observation: More than anything else, rates are determined by the LOCAL supply & demand of similar & competing talent/services.
Think of it from the model's point of view: if there are 10 photographers interested in photographing her next Tuesday afternoon, and if there were no other extenuating circumstances (e.g. usage rights to high quality images), why shouldn't the model accept work with the photographer with the highest rate?
Further, there is no such thing as a standard rate, simply because models vary greatly in their appeal. Simply put, some models are more suited to your requirements & styles than others; thus it might be appropriate to offer a highly desirable model more than another model who is least desirable.
Rays Fine Art wrote: "Art Nudes" can mean almost anything--What may be an art nude to you may be close to porn to someone else. And too, some models have different rates depending on how they see the intent of the work. Fairly discrete, clasic nudes may be one rate, but if the model feels that the work is likely to go beyond a certain, self-imposed boundary such as open leg the rates may go up significantly. You mght want to review your portfolio, lists and profile to see if there is anything there that might trip the higher rates.
Leximages76 wrote: Surely the job dictates the rate? should a model go beyond her comfort level for more money?? No and the images would show discomfort and be poor in quality.
Art nude one rate , Erotica another!! A photographer and for that a model is free to work at various levels and as such pay or charge different rates for different levels.
I fail to see that if your portfolio has erotica in it then a model applying for art nude would charge you more? If you book a model for art nude and her port contains erotic or open leg do you just expect her to do that anyway for the same price??
Surely you agree limits before a shoot?? and agree a price accordingly??
Sorry but your comment just doesn't stand up...
My point is that models will sometimes offer what they themselves feel are exorbitant rates to discourage a photographer whose work they feel is too far out of the range in which they want to work. The model doesn't want to negotiate, and is really not interested in the gig at all, but if he's willing to spring for the ridiculous rate, then what the hell, why not take the money and run? If he's not, then no harm done to try for the rate since she really didn't want the job in the first place. That way she hasn't bruised his ego by turning him down, but instead has given him the opportunity to reject her. If further down the road he wants to offer something more suitable, or if she wants to go back to him with another suggestion, the way may be open.
I've certainly bid high in order to discourage someone I didn't want to work for but didn't want to offend with a "No, Thanks," message. That may be a part (but only a part) of what you're experiencing. It may be the quality of your work, it may be the nature of your work, it may be the way in which you express yourself in your profile, and it may not be a factor at all. It's just one possibility out of many. The only way to even guess would be to compare what the model has in her portfolio with what you have in yours. If they are too dissimilar, then that may (and I emphasize may) be a factor.
indefinite anomaly wrote: Honestly I much prefer when people say "my budget is $x, does this work?"
I'd rather work with someone who is enjoyable, hiring me for multiple sessions, or offering a combination of barter and cash at a lower rate if that lower rate is what they can afford than not work with them at all.
Advertised rates are a starting point for negotiation, for me at least. So if someone approaches me and offers something lower, that's negotiation.
WOW... my wave length exactly....thanks for convincing me ive not moved to Mars.. lol
I will contact you regarding some possible work if thats ok....
Rays Fine Art wrote: "Art Nudes" can mean almost anything--What may be an art nude to you may be close to porn to someone else. And too, some models have different rates depending on how they see the intent of the work. Fairly discrete, clasic nudes may be one rate, but if the model feels that the work is likely to go beyond a certain, self-imposed boundary such as open leg the rates may go up significantly. You mght want to review your portfolio, lists and profile to see if there is anything there that might trip the higher rates.
My point is that models will sometimes offer what they themselves feel are exorbitant rates to discourage a photographer whose work they feel is too far out of the range in which they want to work. The model doesn't want to negotiate, and is really not interested in the gig at all, but if he's willing to spring for the ridiculous rate, then what the hell, why not take the money and run? If he's not, then no harm done to try for the rate since she really didn't want the job in the first place. That way she hasn't bruised his ego by turning him down, but instead has given him the opportunity to reject her. If further down the road he wants to offer something more suitable, or if she wants to go back to him with another suggestion, the way may be open.
I've certainly bid high in order to discourage someone I didn't want to work for but didn't want to offend with a "No, Thanks," message. That may be a part (but only a part) of what you're experiencing. It may be the quality of your work, it may be the nature of your work, it may be the way in which you express yourself in your profile, and it may not be a factor at all. It's just one possibility out of many. The only way to even guess would be to compare what the model has in her portfolio with what you have in yours. If they are too dissimilar, then that may (and I emphasize may) be a factor.
IMHO, as always.
Well (you are of course quite entitled to your opinion) I'm sorry but this just doesn't ring true to me.. Ive been doing this for over 20 years and models work to levels they want to...
In my mind to imply that a model has levels that they are happy with! but if the $ are enough then what the hey I'll do it!!
Well that just doesn't sound right or very appreciative of models and why they do this work..
Sorry guess we will just have to disagree on this one...
1. Find the highest rate among local models.
2. Offer that to everyone.
3. If they decline, double it. If they decline again, move on.
If money isn't in infinite supply, well, I guess you'll have to learn the ancient art of "haggling," which has been exactly the same for thousands of years and is exactly the same for booking a model or buying a rug.
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