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Photographer
Bearz Images
Posts: 816
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Always try to make an effort to pay them something as a sign of respect for their time, I always do, in addition to half a dozen hi-res images for their port. Without them you're shooting sunsets & ducks.
Dec 30 12 03:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Hair Stylist
Platform Artist
Posts: 157
Chicago, Illinois, US


pay to play, maybe you'll win..
Dec 30 12 03:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan OMell
Posts: 1,335
Ufa, Bashkortostan, Russia


ShivaKitty wrote:
Even the actual process of working as model requires money, just to get to and from shoots. A full-time model is often driving 300-500 miles per week, sometimes much more than that. How do you think the models are able to get to you? It costs.

my point was not directed to the traveling models.

rather I don't see a point to use traveling models in the cities like mine with roughly million people, 5 big universities and a lot of colleges and campuses.

there is huge amount of actors, dancers and other talents shooting for exchange. not to mention fashion designers, body painters.

I realize that quantity is not equal quality. 

I see a lot of local opportunities here. I can travel NYC or Eastern Europe and better fit any tiny budget.

I don't get this idea of traveling models at all. At least not at  the scale it is right now.

I respect what you doing. But something is really wrong in the industry in general.

People just got used to the way things are. There are much better ways.
For all. It should not be survivalism. Why?!

Dec 30 12 04:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
orias
Posts: 5,036
Tampa, Florida, US


Christie Gabriel wrote:

He'd give ya more than that I bet. You could probably talk him into giving you a web-sized photo of i don't know...perhaps a ridiculous stuffed animal staring at your clitoris. Isn't that well worth the expenses you'd accrue right there?

oooh baby,  talk trade to me!  it gets me sooo hot! lol

Dec 30 12 04:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
orias
Posts: 5,036
Tampa, Florida, US


Art of the nude wrote:

I'm open to shooting with you in exchange for a pat on the back.  And maybe even pictures.

you're such a tease

Dec 30 12 04:13 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 36,551
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Dan OMell wrote:
I don't get this idea of traveling models at all. At least not at  the scale it is right now.

To some degree, it's a cult of personality. A lot of the people who booked me, when I was actively working, they wanted to shoot ME -- not someone who looked like me, but ME, because I marketed myself in such a way that gave me a very specific online persona.

It's a type of branding. You create a persona for yourself, and a hype, that makes people feel like you are something good, and worth their money.

Like with any sales job. Part of the job is adding value to the product. In modeling, you promote the idea that your persona is the product. People buy YOU, as a product. You add a certain flavor of yourself and your personality to the work you are creating with them, and they will pay for that stylistic addition.

Dan OMell wrote:
But something is really wrong in the industry in general.

You said it yourself. It's an industry. Industries grow, change, and shift with trends and culture. We're at a different place now that we were even 6 years ago, back when I was still somewhat new to it all. Maybe you don't understand why the changes are happening, or what they are leading up to, but it's still ...an industry... just like it always was.

Dan OMell wrote:
People just got used to the way things are. There are much better ways.
For all. It should not be survivalism. Why?!

Huh? Maybe there are better ways for YOU. Your system might not work for everyone else.

Dec 30 12 04:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Julia Francesca
Posts: 2,357
Maumee, Ohio, US


lol "don't pay models please?" wtf? lmao, take an economics class.
Dec 30 12 05:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Escalante
Posts: 5,367
Chicago, Illinois, US


Dan OMell wrote:

my point was not directed to the traveling models.

rather I don't see a point to use traveling models in the cities like mine with roughly million people, 5 big universities and a lot of colleges and campuses.

there is huge amount of actors, dancers and other talents shooting for exchange. not to mention fashion designers, body painters.

I realize that quantity is not equal quality. 

I see a lot of local opportunities here. I can travel NYC or Eastern Europe and better fit any tiny budget.

I don't get this idea of traveling models at all. At least not at  the scale it is right now.

I respect what you doing. But something is really wrong in the industry in general.

People just got used to the way things are. There are much better ways.
For all. It should not be survivalism. Why?!

And they fall further down the well of delusion

What way are things that people got use to ?
Models have been traveling since the industry began .
Seriously you are not making any sense.

Dec 30 12 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Joseph William
Posts: 2,017
Chicago, Illinois, US


Escalante wrote:

And they fall further down the well of delusion

What way are things that people got use to ?
Models have been traveling since the industry began .
Seriously you are not making any sense.

How do you even understand what he is trying to say?

Dec 30 12 06:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,327
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Who the fuck are you to tell other people how to do their job or what to do with their money?
Dec 30 12 06:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,632
Los Angeles, California, US


P I X I E wrote:
Who the fuck are you to tell other people how to do their job or what to do with their money?

This.

And also-- Art is subjective. That's all I'm going to add here.

Dec 30 12 06:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KeithDewey3
Posts: 1,425
Plattsburg, Missouri, US


I pay models I want to work with more than they want to work with me.  Simple supply and demand.
Plus I can afford to do it and it frees me from having to be concerned when I get the images edited.

To the OP, why do you care what I do?
Dec 30 12 06:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Model Mandy
Posts: 4
Bellflower, California, US


Brian Scanlon wrote:
That's because, for some models, it's about supplementing their income and not about the art.

+1

Dec 30 12 06:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 2,194
Naperville, Illinois, US


Art of the nude wrote:

I always compensate models.  Cash, images, lodging, pizza, whatever.  No idea what difference it makes to you.

I Love Pizza!

Dec 30 12 06:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


I'd pay Dean Johnson... but sadly I doubt if I could afford her rates sad

Everybody else gets pictures, and sometimes cookies and a place to stay too smile





Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Dec 30 12 06:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,320
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Have no fear, I have no intention, as a model, to pay any models...





Try the photographers forum next time, you might sway a few over there
Dec 30 12 07:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matt Forma
Posts: 373
Denver, Colorado, US


Jordan Bunniie wrote:
Why do you feel the need to come into the model forum saying we dont deserve to be paid?

+5

Do what you do. Don't try to make everyone else conform to your standards. That's just douchey

Dec 30 12 07:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
tonyfromsyracuse
Posts: 374
Syracuse, New York, US


I LOVE the traveling models cause I see so many models I would love to work with who I never would be able to if they didnt travel. its like a wonderful buffet here, and if you are willing to part with some cash, that model that has something special yet is far away who normally wouldnt end up in front of your camera,can.
Dec 30 12 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
my_other_profile
Posts: 666
Ankeny, Iowa, US


I haven't paid llamas but there are girls on here that I would definitely pay to work with.  And there are photographers that I would definitely pay to work with, if my other inbox wasn't full of TF offers that I need to respond to at some point.  Maybe tonight.  I should do that now.
Dec 30 12 07:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 2,194
Naperville, Illinois, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
I'd pay Dean Johnson... but sadly I doubt if I could afford her rates sad

Everybody else gets pictures, and sometimes cookies and a place to stay too smile





Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

I Love Cookies!

Dec 30 12 08:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 9,373
Santa Barbara, California, US


Caitin   wrote:

I Love Cookies!

White Chocolate Macadamia?

I always have a stash of those  wink

Dec 30 12 08:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 2,194
Naperville, Illinois, US


Art Silva Photography wrote:

White Chocolate Macadamia?

I always have a stash of those  wink

OMG Chocolate and Macadamia? Makes My clothes fall off!

Dec 30 12 08:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 2,194
Naperville, Illinois, US


I think the next time I go to wal-mart For make up I will bring a sign that reads Will Nude Model for food! and wear a thong bikini! wink

BTW I do Love it when there are snacks and food at a shoot!
Dec 30 12 09:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Imageography
Posts: 6,768
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada


I worked with Mosh, I loved her style, and knew she would be fantastic.

Did I even mention TFP to her ?? Nope - I asked her the rates, we shot, and I loved the images we got. She's an expert poser, and didn't need any guidance.

So ya, I pay models I believe are going to give me a return on the money.

I would not pay for some new model with webcam shots on her port, but for talented, experienced models that 99.9% probably don't need any images from me, that's the way it works.

Nothing is finer to me than a shoot that goes so incredibly well, like the one I had with Mosh.
Dec 30 12 09:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Honey Stinger
Posts: 6,346
Madison, Wisconsin, US


Christie Gabriel wrote:
perhaps a ridiculous stuffed animal staring at your clitoris.

That's Money in Asia.

Dec 30 12 09:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 27,049
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
I'd pay Dean Johnson... but sadly I doubt if I could afford her rates sad







Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

I wouldn't

Dec 30 12 09:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 27,049
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Christie Gabriel wrote:

but I would pay Christie

smile

Dec 30 12 09:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bunny Bombshell
Posts: 11,752
Huntington, West Virginia, US


*Rolls eyes*. This again?
Dec 30 12 09:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,868
Olivet, Michigan, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
I'd pay Dean Johnson... but sadly I doubt if I could afford her rates sad

Garry k wrote:
I wouldn't

There's a lesson here somewhere.

Dec 30 12 09:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Caveman Creations
Posts: 580
Fort Worth, Texas, US


orias wrote:

you're such a tease

Darlin, I like you! You are on a ROLL!

What say, I pick you up, shoot you, and take you back home with a 30 Lbs Brisket in yer back pocket? You know how we Texans are.....Smoke anything that'll stay lit long enough! wink You are somethin' else.

Dec 30 12 09:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


Art of the nude wrote:

There's a lesson here somewhere.

~sees what you did there, giggles, and walks back out of trainwreck range~

Dec 30 12 09:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Melodye Joy
Posts: 542
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US


You pay a model for the following;
-their services
-their talent
-their ability
-their look

If you have a concept that YOU want for your portfolio, to submit to magazines, to submit to agencies, then YOU pay the model THEIR services. Otherwise, the model has input, can cancel last min, call off the whole thing, never show up, ect....

Does paying someone stop flakes from happening? No. But it does help because one is more enticed to show up, knowing they have something in return. Especially if it concerns a genre in which they don't feel they want to excel, or a genre in which they may have TOO MUCH (beauty, fashion, nude/implied)...

Why else do you pay a model?
Well, you pay a particular model so that you get THAT model, not her sister, not her aunt, not her best friend, not another model that kinda sortta maybe looks like her.

As someone else mentioned, payment also can help when editing comes. The model can't necessarily ask for more edits or particular edits if she is being compensated by cash/food/clothing (whatever the case). Does it prevent them asking? No. But an agreement in terms should have been made long ago, x payment for x time and x edits provided/not provided.

Just my thoughts. Happy photographing!
Dec 30 12 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,738
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay llamas please!

In case nobody has noticed, we're now on Page 4 and the troll....I mean, "OP" has bailed on his thread.

Dec 30 12 09:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DavidV
Posts: 40
Cambridge, Ontario, Canada


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

You don't consider art as a work... good for you. It's not about whether you deem whatever your creating art or work. It's Time for Print... time. Some people think their time is worth more than yours for various reasons. The most important being what they are bringing to the table in experience and looks.

Dec 30 12 10:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8,597
Berkeley, California, US


r4u wrote:
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

lol.  "please"?  You are begging other photographers not to hire models.  lol.

Why?

Art that is directed by someone else, to me, is work.
I do TF* when I want someone to photograph my ideas.

Dec 30 12 10:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sedition
Posts: 273
Buffalo, New York, US


Caitin   wrote:
I think the next time I go to wal-mart For make up I will bring a sign that reads Will Nude Model for food! and wear a thong bikini! wink

BTW I do Love it when there are snacks and food at a shoot!

I am taking note of this... Maybe, you should pay for a flight to Buffalo and I will provide pizza wings cookies soda and after dinner mints at the shoot... Why pay a model when I can just feed one?

Dec 30 12 10:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,164
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Melodye Joy wrote:
If you have a concept that YOU want for your portfolio, to submit to magazines, to submit to agencies, then YOU pay the llama THEIR services. Otherwise, the llama has input, can cancel last min, call off the whole thing, never show up, ect....

If I'm not paying a llama in cash, food, etc (only agreeing to share the images), I don't mind their having input as these are their compensation, too ... but can cancel at the last minute, not show up, etc?  Are you serious?

  It sounds like what you're saying is that unless there is something other than images to be traded, a llama doesn't have to be a person of their word.  In other words, if we agree to a TF shoot and I drive more than an hour to get to their city (even having to pay a bridge toll), pay to park, pay for ... pay for ... pay for ... and maybe even rent a studio to shoot in ... it's okay for the llama to just not show up because we *agreed* to shoot TF?

  I'm of the opinion that it's not okay for anyone to just not show up.  Having to cancel at the last minute is bad enough.  Grandma dies a few times each year and all ... but the real reason is because there is no cash changing hands?  I think I have officially heard everything.

Dec 30 12 10:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Cree Synster
Posts: 269
Milledgeville, Georgia, US


Some people model for a living.
They NEED the cash to pay the bills, pay for groceries, pay for new clothes if you outgrow old clothes (or they just become too ratty to wear), etc...
Art careers, ANY career in the art field, we do a LOT for what we want to get paid for.
Dec 30 12 10:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Works Photography
Posts: 2,890
Orlando, Florida, US


Melodye Joy wrote:
Otherwise, the model has input, can cancel last min, call off the whole thing, never show up, ect....

? I think my experience and thousands of dollars of equipment are worth a lot. Doesn't matter if they don't care. Its a fact! There will always be those that pay and thats good for them. I found out that if my offers are good enough models will come. It could be at the studio or nice resort area or at a local group meet. I have plenty of work.

Dec 30 12 10:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 2,194
Naperville, Illinois, US


Bill Tracy Photography wrote:
If you are giving them images from the shoot, guess what...  you ARE paying them.

Define giving images? 5 800x533 poorly edited? Or several choice images in raw with a photographers release?

Dec 30 12 10:57 pm  Link  Quote 
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