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Photographer
Fotografica Gregor
Posts: 4,065
Alexandria, Virginia, US


may I suggest -

check with the models the photographer has worked with for references

insist on the address of the shoot location well in advance and google it -  using google or other map programs in satellite mode as well to see what the location is like - google the location if it is a studio or etc to get a feel for it

be sure that someone trusted knows where you are  -  have a check in call with them when you arrive and let them know how long to expect you to be at the shoot

if anything the photographer does crosses your limits communicate clearly and if persistent leave the shoot

the overwhelming majority of shoots go off quite safely.....

I have a very lovely home that I would like to shoot in but prefer to use a large commercial studio with professional management on site just so that the model can feel that the location is very up and up -  if eventually I get to know a model well enough that she feels safe about it I will take her to other locations....
Jan 03 13 08:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 1,647
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


The F-Stop wrote:
Bring an escort! If anyone has a problem with that then leave.

It's not just photographers that need to be checked out. Models too.

I have my own reasons for not allowing people not involved in the shoot being there. They can be a distraction; interrupting the work or making the model feel conscious. I also have no idea what they're doing when I'm shooting and could be doing things they shouldn't.

I have had those problems in the past.

I do check model's references. It helps that I'm friendly with other photogs in the area and they can be a very candid bunch.

Jan 03 13 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The F-Stop
Posts: 1,420
New York, New York, US


Escorst generally don't stay the entire time in my experiance. They show up have coffee with us, we talk about the shoot, what we are going to do n where. I lay out the plan n tell the escort to meet us back here at a certain time.. is it sounding that bad to you so far?.. or is that too easy to be nice to someone n have a bit of respect? 

When we take a break the model may text she is ok, we go about our business again... simple n easy.. no one is feeling any tension n we get great shots anyay. I've had husbands drop off wives who just want to meet me.. no big deal!

BUt make a big deal of no escorts n it becomes an issue, an alarm going off you're probably a creep.. and most times it's true! Keep insisting no escorts.. and lets see how many models flake on you?

When I had my studio in Manhattan.. I had a very nice wating room for escorts They can sit n read or do whatever escorts do while waiting around for a few hours. Again, my expeiance, is they leave n come back at the end of the shot.. no big deal.. no baby sitting n crying "they are going to steal my equipment" n excuses why they shouldn't come.. that is all nonsence. If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about! If it makes the model feel more relaxed n secure.. bring your mother, father aunts n uncles.. I do waht I have to as a professional to make everyone feel realxed n secure while in my care.

Models, espcially the young fledgling 20 sumptins, they need that sense of security.. it may be their first experiance... and I have no problems with it!. maybe when they go pro they'll have enough street smarts to weed out the jerks.

Your second shoot more than likely will have no escorts sow up at all.. that is if you're a good enough photographer to get a second shoot that is.


So come on, lighten up.. take an escort to a job?.. sheesh... some analogy!

Bring an escort to the dentist? is that the same.. really?
Jan 03 13 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Liz James Photography
Posts: 7
San Diego, California, US


Bring a friend with you!  No photographer that is legit and well-meaning should have a problem with that!  I know I wouldn't. 

Good luck!
Jan 05 13 09:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MesmerEyes Photography
Posts: 2,788
Tyler, Texas, US


Eyesso wrote:
Too many "have been knowns" in here....

Escorts who "have been known" to ruin photo shoots.   And then the photographers who "have been known" to kidnap and rape models.  People who "have been known" to steal stuff, blah blah blah. 

Why not just apply the eternal rules of the internet meet up....

If you are meeting somebody from the internet for the first time.....meet in a very PUBLIC location, not in the woods somewhere, never at their house.   If you have any reservations, bring a friend. 

If your photographer is not creative enough to work around an escort, then they probably are not creative enough to work with in general. Epic photos are not earned on the first photo shoot.....they come after mutual trust is established.

Really, I beg to differ. Many epic shots have come from the one and only time a collaborative team has worked together.

Jan 05 13 09:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,962
Columbus, Ohio, US


Liz James Photography wrote:
Bring a friend with you!  No photographer that is legit and well-meaning should have a problem with that!  I know I wouldn't. 

Good luck!

Horseshit

You allow them? More power to you.
But don't spew utter nonsense.

Jan 05 13 12:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
allison mindy
Posts: 1,495
New York, New York, US


Paolo Diavolo wrote:
use common sense.
check references.
let someone know where you're going, and what time you expect to be back.

End thread.

Jan 05 13 12:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura1982
Posts: 81
Eaton, Ohio, US


allison mindy wrote:

End thread.

Agreed! No room for hostility in a forum for newbies. Thanks for putting it to an end:)

Jan 05 13 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Liz James Photography
Posts: 7
San Diego, California, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Horseshit

You allow them? More power to you.
But don't spew utter nonsense.

With all due respect, yes, I would and do allow them.  I am not here to judge anyone else, and am only speaking personally when I say YES, I would and DO allow them.  That's not nonsense, that's fact.  Yet, how you view the decision of another photographer is up to you.  There's nothing nonsensical about wanting to grant someone the reassurance they need in order to have a successful shoot.  I respect that you beg to differ.

Jan 05 13 03:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leo Howard
Posts: 6,728
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Liz James Photography wrote:
Bring a friend with you!  No photographer that is legit and well-meaning should have a problem with that!  I know I wouldn't. 

Good luck!
Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Horseshit

You allow them? More power to you.
But don't spew utter nonsense.
Liz James Photography wrote:
With all due respect, yes, I would and do allow them.  I am not here to judge anyone else, and am only speaking personally when I say YES, I would and DO allow them.  That's not nonsense, that's fact.  Yet, how you view the decision of another photographer is up to you.  There's nothing nonsensical about wanting to grant someone the reassurance they need in order to have a successful shoot.  I respect that you beg to differ.

Really?  cause your first statement is very judgmental.

Jan 05 13 03:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jason Haven
Posts: 38,283
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Escorts can also get murder/raped. I suggest your escort has an escort as well.
Jan 05 13 03:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leo Howard
Posts: 6,728
Phoenix, Arizona, US


ASYLUM - Photo wrote:
Escorts can also get murder/raped. I suggest your escort has an escort as well.

No, that wont happen cause they are going to ban all the guns.

Jan 05 13 03:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Hair Stylist
Platform Artist
Posts: 157
Chicago, Illinois, US


Laura1982 wrote:
Since I have always worked with an agency before and worked with photogs I knew, I'm not sure what the rules are or how to make sure I'm going to a safe location when responding to casting calls. Any advice would be appreciated.

just dont goto a forest preserve , alone, smile

Jan 05 13 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Liz James Photography
Posts: 7
San Diego, California, US


Leo Howard wrote:

Liz James Photography wrote:
Bring a friend with you!  No photographer that is legit and well-meaning should have a problem with that!  I know I wouldn't. 

Good luck!
Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Horseshit

You allow them? More power to you.
But don't spew utter nonsense.

Really?  cause your first statement is very judgmental.

Let me make myself clear.  Perhaps I should have stated my "opinion" differently.  That's all it was - an opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs.  I am not here to judge anyone.

Jan 05 13 03:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Liz James Photography
Posts: 7
San Diego, California, US


Laura1982 wrote:

Agreed! No room for hostility in a forum for newbies. Thanks for putting it to an end:)

I agree!  I joined this site less than 36 hours ago and my first post has caused a few folks to be upset.  I won't be posting anything else in these forums because I am not here to fight with anyone.  :-)

Jan 05 13 03:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WIP
Posts: 15,107
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


Laura1982 wrote:
Since I have always worked with an agency before and worked with photogs I knew, I'm not sure what the rules are or how to make sure I'm going to a safe location when responding to casting calls. Any advice would be appreciated.

There must have been a time when you didn't know these photographers.

Jan 05 13 03:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lost Coast Photo
Posts: 2,674
Ferndale, California, US


I've worked with hundreds of models. Many of them have been very experienced. I've had this discussion with quite a few of them... and most tell me they have never had a problem.

Certainly they have turned down a few shoots because the up-front communication didn't feel right, or their intuition said something was wrong.

Most of the more experienced girls did not rely on escorts. Think about it, for a model who works a lot that would mean bringing someone along sometimes several times per week, and asking them to sit there for two or more hours. That would wear out friendships pretty quickly, because there's rarely enough money involved n a non-commercial shoot to spread any of it around. I have seen a few girls ask someone to drop them off and pick them up, and in fact I've done that for model friends on a few occasions at their request.

As a photographer, I'm largely indifferent to the escort issue. It's a minor annoyance, because even though I've never had a problem with one, it is one more person to keep an eye on. For location shoots it's a no-go because I drive a two seater, so unless they want to ride in the trunk.... and in any case, I don't believe escorts add any real safety. Most I've seen have had no training in self defense or in emergency situations, so really all it's doing is putting two people in harms way instead of one if things ever do go bad.

Actually I take that back about never having a problem with an escort. Once I disarmed a frail 18-year old guy, when he bent over to help take her things out of the car a cheap single-action revolver stuck out from under his jacket. He's lucky I only took it away from him instead of had him arrested... with an unlicensed handgun under age 21, he would have been looking at multiple felony charges. As it was, the model humiliated him in public because she hadn't known what he'd done and she was really pissed.

So I advocate intuition, reference checks where appropriate, and common sense safety moves like letting someone know where you are and a call or text when the shoot is done to let them know you're OK.
Jan 05 13 04:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 23,842
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Laura1982 wrote:
Since I have always worked with an agency before and worked with photogs I knew, I'm not sure what the rules are or how to make sure I'm going to a safe location when responding to casting calls. Any advice would be appreciated.

Honestly, you can't stop crazy.

That said, someone with a username here has an IP address logged and MM would have their location or at least where they logged on. Most of the time someone would have a cellphone with their name attached to the billing. Websites are really easy to track down via whois. Emails would also have IP info.

So if someone really truly wanted to do harm and get away with it (and they aren't batshit crazy) they would do business cards and pick victims up at a bar and do things that same night/day. It would be really hard for a person to act professional and mask their info - thus, although you may run into creeps, you wouldn't be in harms way.

Assuming again that someone would want to get away with something and not leave a trail or that someone isn't batshit crazy and just dose something.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Jan 05 13 04:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Carolina Goddess
Posts: 146
Augusta, Georgia, US


The F-Stop wrote:
Bring an escort!

If anyone has a problem with that then leave.

Does tend to give an uneasy feel when you are told no escorts when you are traveling to a remote location and no one will know exactly where you will be.

Jan 05 13 04:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ChanStudio - OtherSide
Posts: 5,311
Alpharetta, Georgia, US


Carolina Goddess wrote:
Does tend to give an uneasy feel when you are told no escorts when you are traveling to a remote location and no one will know exactly where you will be.

This is the reason why I bring my own escort to protect myself from model's escort just in case something do happen to me. 

  Oh wait.  What about the Makeup Artist? Designer, hair stylist?  I would recommend them to bring their own escorts as well.  That way, everyone will have escort to watch other escorts.. smile



OP: If you feel the need for an escort, do work with photographers that allow escort.  Some photographers allow escorts while others do not.  Some photographer do have a big team with them (makeup artist, hair stylist, designer, etc) and they do not want unknown people on the set.  The escort is the unknown person and that sometimes cause issues (demanding, making models feel uncomfortable, make others feel uncomfortable, disrupting etc) on the set. 

  Now, if they are shooting in a studio and there is waiting room.  That is different story.  The escort can wait in the waiting room.

Jan 05 13 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ChanStudio - OtherSide
Posts: 5,311
Alpharetta, Georgia, US


Liz James Photography wrote:

I agree!  I joined this site less than 36 hours ago and my first post has caused a few folks to be upset.  I won't be posting anything else in these forums because I am not here to fight with anyone.  :-)

That is because you are new and you have no idea the real reasons why some won't allow escort.  Either that or you just a brave person and not afraid of your own safety.

Jan 05 13 05:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Flex Photography
Posts: 5,081
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada


Carolina Goddess wrote:

Does tend to give an uneasy feel when you are told no escorts when you are traveling to a remote location and no one will know exactly where you will be.

If that is the case, you haven't done your proper due diliugence and communications with the photographer! That is your responsibility as a model. If you haven't asked about those specifics, you are not doing your job. If, on the other hand, they refuse to tell you, don't shoot! An escort has no bearing on either of those.

Jan 05 13 07:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,780
Olivet, Michigan, US


landscapeartphotography wrote:
Yes, I do encourage models to always bring an escort. Also, tell someone the exact location and time the shoot is.

If you feel models aren't safe with you, then feel free to encourage them to bring someone to prevent you from harming them.

I KNOW I'm not a danger to them, and I don't want distractions or threats at my shoots.  So, I don't allow people with no stake in the shoot on set.

Jan 05 13 08:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ruben Sanchez
Posts: 3,416
San Antonio, Texas, US


Tell them you're bringing an excort, like your husband.  If complain, then don't shoot with them.
Jan 05 13 08:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,780
Olivet, Michigan, US


Liz James Photography wrote:
Bring a friend with you!  No photographer that is legit and well-meaning should have a problem with that!  I know I wouldn't. 

Good luck!

So, you have no problem being alone with the model and some guy you know nothing about, but models should be scared of people who they can check up on?  Yeah, that makes sense.

Jan 05 13 09:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Julian W I L D E
Posts: 1,798
Los Angeles, California, US


Tonic Dog Studios wrote:

Actually, I have every right to say whatever the hell I want.

Actually... I checked that.  And you're right!  On both accounts.  ;-)  -JULIAN

Jan 05 13 09:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,174
Salem, Oregon, US


welcome to the mayhem!

what i've learned is never say anything that implies other photographers are wrong for their policies. you can state your policies and make recommendations for the models but don't get into saying what other photographers should and shouldn't do. there are some hot button issues on here and escorts is one of the main ones. people have strongly held opinions and they have their reasons.

the sites that advise newbie models always say stuff like "don't work with photographers who won't allow escorts" the problem with that is a lot of very good photographers won't allow escorts and those sites neglect to tell the models that part. then the models come on here and complain about why so and so hotshot photographer won't work with them. it is what it is.

the forums are only as good as the folks who post on them. i hope you give it another shot. i nearly quit over a forum battle early on but lived to make 17,000+ posts.

and people are supposed to play nice in this newbie forum but it always gets heated with the E issue.

Liz James Photography wrote:
I agree!  I joined this site less than 36 hours ago and my first post has caused a few folks to be upset.  I won't be posting anything else in these forums because I am not here to fight with anyone.  :-)

Jan 05 13 09:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,520
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Liz James Photography wrote:
DON'TBring a friend with you!  No photographer that is legit and well-meaning should have a problem with that would ever allow escorts on the shoot!  I know I wouldn't.

There, fixed that for you. For references, I cite any number of the gazillion "escort" threads here in the forums where the inexperienced, newbs all say to bring an escort and the seasoned, industry professionals all agree it's idiotic, childish, and amateurish.

Jan 05 13 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Black Sunshine
Posts: 811
Austin, Texas, US


You can bring your mommy everywhere you go to make sure you chew your food so you don't choke on it, or you can use common sense such as checking references or learning to defend yourself like the rest of us. Reading a stickied thread about this subject would be advisable too.

I haven't had a real problem with escorts, but I find it offensive to bring one, so if you require one, I'll find someone who's not so paranoid instead.
Jan 05 13 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Liz James Photography
Posts: 7
San Diego, California, US


twoharts wrote:
welcome to the mayhem!

what i've learned is never say anything that implies other photographers are wrong for their policies. you can state your policies and make recommendations for the models but don't get into saying what other photographers should and shouldn't do. there are some hot button issues on here and escorts is one of the main ones. people have strongly held opinions and they have their reasons.

the sites that advise newbie models always say stuff like "don't work with photographers who won't allow escorts" the problem with that is a lot of very good photographers won't allow escorts and those sites neglect to tell the models that part. then the models come on here and complain about why so and so hotshot photographer won't work with them. it is what it is.

the forums are only as good as the folks who post on them. i hope you give it another shot. i nearly quit over a forum battle early on but lived to make 17,000+ posts.

and people are supposed to play nice in this newbie forum but it always gets heated with the E issue.


Thank you for the encouragement.  I admit I spoke too general and in too broad of terms.  Going forward, I will choose my words more wisely.  For now, I am done explaining myself on this one.  Though I am sure, people will continue to comment on my comment which is now a moot issue.  I do, however, appreciate your post.  I also appreciate the post after yours which "fixed" my comment.  ;-)  Thank you thank you thank you!  :-)

Jan 06 13 03:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,174
Salem, Oregon, US


the good news is that these threads never die and will be resurrected years later :-; so you are now part of mayhem history! and there's no better way to get known than to jump headfirst into an escort thread.

Liz James Photography wrote:
Though I am sure, people will continue to comment on my comment which is now a moot issue.

Jan 06 13 03:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wolfstar Studio
Posts: 861
Cross Roads, Texas, US


Laura1982 wrote:
Since I have always worked with an agency before and worked with photogs I knew, I'm not sure what the rules are or how to make sure I'm going to a safe location when responding to casting calls. Any advice would be appreciated.

If your spidy senses tingle, don't go or get the heck out.

Jan 08 13 09:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,004
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


Ruben Sanchez wrote:
excort

lol

Jan 08 13 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
3934
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Are we talking about the kind of escorts you find on Craigslist in the personals section? In that case bring two.

/I don't know why I read these threads. I must be bored. lol.
Jan 08 13 09:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kate Moreno
Posts: 1
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I have the same worries.  I have modeled nude in art school, but never for someone I dont know. It is also a little worrisome for me to meet photographers who have not gone through agencies.  I am very passionate about modeling and don't want fear to hinder my success, but sometimes I can be too trusting.  Is it awkward to bring a friend? Are there any red flags that a photographer may not be who they claim to be?  I have complete respect for anyone who shoots nudes/ lingerie.  I am also willing to consider doing so; however, my biggest concern is that some of the pictures may turn out looking vulgar and end up out of context on the internet. 

I am very new to MM, but so far so good.  I have scheduled many more shoots than I did with my agency, even if most of them are tfp.  I would greatly appreciate any advice from models who have been on this site and met with photographers already.  How do you know you can trust someone?

Kathryn
Jan 08 13 08:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Curt at photoworks
Posts: 31,785
Riverside, California, US


Liz James Photography wrote:
...  I admit I spoke too general and in too broad of terms. ..

Whatever, but you weren't lying, right?

You do think that any legit photographer should allow escorts.

Just want to make sure I understand you.

Jan 09 13 05:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Curt at photoworks
Posts: 31,785
Riverside, California, US


Kate Moreno wrote:
.. Are there any red flags that a photographer may not be who they claim to be?  ...  How do you know you can trust someone?

You can't know for sure. It's all about reducing the probability of running into trouble. There's lots of things one can evaluate.


Safety In Internet Modeling, By James Glendinning/ SilverLight Esoterica Photography

What is Due Diligence in the Internet Modeling and Photography Environment?, By Curt @ photoworks.ws

Jan 09 13 05:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Runwayimages
Posts: 3
New York, New York, US


Paolo Diavolo wrote:
Bringing someone with you does not mean its automatically a safe situation.
This is ignorant advice.
Laura1982, dont listen to that troll.

Its pretty simple:
If you dont feel safe taking internet llamaing gigs, then don't llama with hobby photographers you meet on the internet.

Work through an agency, or promo company, or work directly with businesses, or find another hobby.

Just use common sense, and have trust in people.

WELL SPOKEN !! EVERY WORD !!

Jan 09 13 09:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2,513
Hickory, North Carolina, US


The reason we consider them "false security blankets" is because while bringing a friend magically makes you feel secure, it's a false sense.

Think about it. If I'm going to rape or serial kill you, am I going to be nice enough to let your friend go too?  No, I'd just shoot them in the head. Or lock them in the basement dungeon, or tie them to the railroad tracks or whatever it is you think we do.

Protecting yourself from the world is a multi-faceted procedure - You check into the person you're working with, be confident and act secure, carry something to defend yourself with like mace and a blade, and maybe pick up some defensive maneuvers.

The same thing you'd do when walking through a dark creepy parking lot at night...right?
Jan 10 13 06:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TVenhola
Posts: 5
Espoo, Uusimaa, Finland


The F-Stop wrote:
Bring an escort!

If anyone has a problem with that then leave.

The only escort anyone is bringing where I shoot is a car made by Ford.

Common sense is the key.

Jan 10 13 06:20 am  Link  Quote 
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