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Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


Hello everybody!

I have been approached to do a shoot with a photographer for a Tattoo book. From what i can see, his work is amazing but i have a few problems:
1) Location is 3.5 hours away by train and will cost £78.30 but i think it is a TF shoot.

2) I can't seem to get any references, i have contacted the few models he has credited but no reply so far.

3) I have no idea where the city is, i have never travelled more than 15 miles away alone and so i would like to take an escort which i no is usually a no-no!

Any help on these points would be fantastic! I will take all advice on board. smile

Leone P. x

Any help on all 3
Jan 06 13 12:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Carolina Goddess
Posts: 146
Augusta, Georgia, US


Ask him if you can bring an escort. It is not always a no no. Especially if you are traveling. If you cant get references and you aren't comfortable go with your gut.
Jan 06 13 12:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,734
Santa Ana, California, US


You're wanting to take an llama herder (by your description), because you feel it would mitigate the apprehension you are feeling toward the shoot.
There are more professional ways to do that.
- Let the photographer know you were unable to verify with the references he provided
- Do more research on the location
- Do more investigation on the photographer
- Don't shoot.
Jan 06 13 12:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Leone P wrote:
Hello everybody!

I have been approached to do a shoot with a photographer for a Tattoo book. From what i can see, his work is amazing but i have a few problems:
1) Location is 3.5 hours away by train and will cost £78.30 but i think it is a TF shoot.

2) I can't seem to get any references, i have contacted the few models he has credited but no reply so far.

3) I have no idea where the city is, i have never travelled more than 15 miles away alone and so i would like to take an escort which i no is usually a no-no!

Any help on these points would be fantastic! I will take all advice on board. smile

Leone P. x

Any help on all 3

1. Is his work amazing enough to warrant any expenses you'd incur?
2. Are the lack of responses enough to warrant passing?
3. Google Maps or a GPS make finding locations very easy. That should never be a limiting factor. As for taking someone...is that person really an escort? Or just someone who's going to drive because you're not comfortable traveling alone?

Only the photographer can answer if an escort is acceptable. But I would recommend calling that person a driver or traveling companion so as to avoid any hot-button response to the word escort.

Jan 06 13 12:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,982
Columbus, Ohio, US


John Allan wrote:
You're wanting to take an escort (by your description), because you feel it would mitigate the apprehension you are feeling toward the shoot.
There are more professional ways to do that.
- Let the photographer know you were unable to verify with the references he provided
- Do more research on the location
- Do more investigation on the photographer
- Don't shoot.

^^^THIS^^^

Jan 06 13 12:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,496
Portland, Oregon, US


Leone P wrote:
Hello everybody!

I have been approached to do a shoot with a photographer for a Tattoo book. From what i can see, his work is amazing but i have a few problems:
1) Location is 3.5 hours away by train and will cost £78.30 but i think it is a TF shoot.

2) I can't seem to get any references, i have contacted the few models he has credited but no reply so far.

3) I have no idea where the city is, i have never travelled more than 15 miles away alone and so i would like to take an escort which i no is usually a no-no!

Any help on these points would be fantastic! I will take all advice on board. smile

Leone P. x

Any help on all 3

My only thoughts...

If £78.30 is expensive for you, won't it be twice as much to take a second person along as an escort?  Unless having a person go with you would be as a "driver" and that would be similar or less costly, it seems like having an escort go with you seems even more costly.

I can, however, certainly imagine how traveling that far alone could seem daunting.

As you well know from your other thread, an escort for safety due to the photographer, if you don't feel safe it would be wiser to decline.

Jan 06 13 12:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


His work is amazing and i have no doubt that he is 100% safe.
The 'escort' would be because i have no travelled so far alone but as you say, it would be twice as the expense as we would be travelling by train.

Leone P. x
Jan 06 13 01:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,764
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


Leone P wrote:
1) Location is 3.5 hours away by train and will cost £78.30 but i think it is a TF shoot.

If his work is really amazing, that sounds like a fair price for me.  He'd probably charge you a lot more than that if you hired him to shoot you.  Also, you think it's a TF shoot?  A responsible person would know what they're agreeing to before they agree to it.

Leone P wrote:
2) I can't seem to get any references, i have contacted the few models he has credited but no reply so far.

So tell the photographer you're having difficulty getting any of his references to respond and you need that before you agree to a shoot.  If he really wants to shoot with you, he'll either provide some additional references or contact those you've already contacted and ask them to reply to you.

Leone P wrote:
3) I have no idea where the city is, i have never travelled more than 15 miles away alone and so i would like to take an escort which i no is usually a no-no!

Honestly, this sounds like a really lame attempt to invent a reason to bring an escort.  If you're not grown up enough to use a map or travel alone, you shouldn't be involved in modeling anyway.  Kids in junior high school can manage those basic tasks.

Jan 06 13 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


DougBPhoto wrote:
I can, however, certainly imagine how traveling that far alone could seem daunting.

As you well know from your other thread, an escort for safety due to the photographer, if you don't feel safe it would be wiser to decline.

It is the travelling that daunts me. I'm not afraid to do the shoot alone but its travelling to an unknown city, sitting alone on a train for 3.5 hours (mind numbingly boring!) and trying to navigate my way to the shoot. It doesn't help that my sense of direction is abysmal.

Leone P. x

Jan 06 13 01:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,982
Columbus, Ohio, US


Leone P wrote:

It is the travelling that daunts me. I'm not afraid to do the shoot alone but its travelling to an unknown city, sitting alone on a train for 3.5 hours (mind numbingly boring!) and trying to navigate my way to the shoot. It doesn't help that my sense of direction is abysmal.

Leone P. x

Reading material is your friend. Or in this day & age, one of those little electronic gizmos that let you do many things. smile

Jan 06 13 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


BTHPhoto wrote:

Leone P wrote:
1) Location is 3.5 hours away by train and will cost £78.30 but i think it is a TF shoot.

If his work is really amazing, that sounds like a fair price for me.  He'd probably charge you a lot more than that if you hired him to shoot you.  Also, you think it's a TF shoot?  A responsible person would know what they're agreeing to before they agree to it.

Leone P wrote:
2) I can't seem to get any references, i have contacted the few models he has credited but no reply so far.

So tell the photographer you're having difficulty getting any of his references to respond and you need that before you agree to a shoot.  If he really wants to shoot with you, he'll either provide some additional references or contact those you've already contacted and ask them to reply to you.


Honestly, this sounds like a really lame attempt to invent a reason to bring an escort.  If you're not grown up enough to use a map or travel alone, you shouldn't be involved in modeling anyway.  Kids in junior high school can manage those basic tasks.

1) We haven't discussed anything past him asking me if i would like to do the shoot, i didnt want to waste his time if i get negative references back.

2) I will do so if i don't hear anything back within the next 48hours.

3) So wrong on many levels.

Jan 06 13 01:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,496
Portland, Oregon, US


Leone P wrote:
It is the travelling that daunts me. I'm not afraid to do the shoot alone but its travelling to an unknown city, sitting alone on a train for 3.5 hours (mind numbingly boring!) and trying to navigate my way to the shoot. It doesn't help that my sense of direction is abysmal.

Leone P. x

Most likely you'd be fine, and might it be an option to ask the photographer (or an assistant) meet you at the train and then you'd only need to navigate the train system.

If you're really so bad at navigation, it might be a great time to think about a device with GPS and maps/directions.

Jan 06 13 01:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


Small Fruit Pits wrote:

Reading material is your friend. Or in this day & age, one of those little electronic gizmos that let you do many things. smile

yikes I hadn't thought of that! 3 hours worth of reading, without interruptions from my husband or my little girls!
Suddenly it seems like bliss haha!

Jan 06 13 01:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


DougBPhoto wrote:

Most likely you'd be fine, and might it be an option to ask the photographer (or an assistant) meet you at the train and then you'd only need to navigate the train system.

Hopefully the train station would be close enough for them to meet me. It would make it a whole lot easier. I will be lucky if i get on the right train, let alone try find the studio. smile x

Jan 06 13 01:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


John Allan wrote:
- Do more research on the location
- Do more investigation on the photographer
- Don't shoot.

+1

And OP, another escort thread? hmm




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jan 06 13 01:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

+1

And OP, another escort thread? hmm




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com

Well as i say, i no longer need an escort when i know where i am going but i was worried about the distance on this particular shoot and wanted to see what the 'norm' was for travelling models.

Leone P. x

Jan 06 13 01:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L Bass
Posts: 943
Nacogdoches, Texas, US


If you 'think' it is a TF shoot... I would suggest you do a little more research before committing to spending cash for a 3.5 hour train ride. And if you are 'sure' he's 100% trustworthy and reputable, I don't see the need to check references. On the other hand... if there is ANY doubt in your mind whatsoever about his credibility... be relentless in your quest for suitable references. As far as this being your first time to travel 3.5 hours alone... it's a big world out there. This would be a good starting point for future and more distant travels. I wish you all the best and hope this shoot turns out to be all you expected. Nice ink BTW wink
Jan 06 13 01:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,764
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


DougBPhoto wrote:

Most likely you'd be fine, and might it be an option to ask the photographer (or an assistant) meet you at the train and then you'd only need to navigate the train system.

Really?  She's 22 years old.  I understand some people have limited experience, but getting to an appointment at an address you're new to is a pretty basic task in the adult world.  I might expect someone 12 or 14 to need an assistant, but if a 22 year old told me they couldn't manage that, I'd just write them off as either a fruitcake or too immature to work with anyway.

Jan 06 13 01:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Leone P wrote:
i was worried about the distance on this particular shoot and wanted to see what the 'norm' was for travelling models.

What? How old are you again?

The 'norm' for travelling models is to travel to wherever the heck they need to get to without making a song and dance about it.

FYI, my daughter travelled alone to Ghana (in Africa) when she was 16. You're 22 and you're worried about travelling a few miles by train within the UK?

Maybe modelling is not for you...? Seriously hmm




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jan 06 13 01:21 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


TF doesn't always mean no money involved. He may be willing to help with the train fare.
Jan 06 13 01:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Damianne wrote:
TF doesn't always mean no money involved. He may be willing to help with the train fare.

I think the OP wants him to wrap her up in a snuggly blanket and magically transport her to/from the studio.

I'm not sure if a unicorn and rainbows are expected too though so I guess he will have to negotiate that with her wink



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jan 06 13 01:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,982
Columbus, Ohio, US


Damianne wrote:
TF doesn't always mean no money involved. He may be willing to help with the train fare.

+1

OP, you ain't gonna know unless you ask. What's the worst thing that could happen if you do? Not much....

Jan 06 13 01:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


Thankyou to everyone who offered me advice and didn't pull me to pieces.

I am going to wait on a day or two to see if i get replies from the models i have messaged, if not i will message the tog regarding references.
I am happy to travel alone, the idea of alone time reading sold me haha. I will also ask the tog if somebody can meet me from the train station,if not i will try navigate my way there.
I will also ask if there will be any compensation for travel expenses, if not then it is still worth it.

Thankyou again.

Leone P. x
Jan 06 13 01:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


BTHPhoto wrote:

Really?  She's 22 years old.  I understand some people have limited experience, but getting to an appointment at an address you're new to is a pretty basic task in the adult world.  I might expect someone 12 or 14 to need an assistant, but if a 22 year old told me they couldn't manage that, I'd just write them off as either a fruitcake or too immature to work with anyway.

Lovely. Yes i am 22 and no,i haven't had chance to have any travelling experience.
My childhood was not great so i never travelled anywhere alone or with family/friends for that matter.
I then had a family of my own and going anywhere further than 15 miles alone was never issue as i had no reason to.
I have done a few photoshoots that i was asked to do by a MUA friend, i have only just started to branch out on my own.
I shouldn't have to explain myself but you shouldn't make snap judgements on people you have never met. Or on anyone for that matter.

Leone P.

Jan 06 13 01:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
sdgillis
Posts: 2,422
Portland, Oregon, US


Leone P wrote:
Hello everybody!

I have been approached to do a shoot with a photographer for a Tattoo book.

If a photographer used my tattoo artwork without a release and made a book for his own profit I would probably sue him, or at least ask for several free copies.

Jan 06 13 01:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Leone P wrote:
I will also ask if there will be any compensation for travel expenses, if not then it is still worth it.

Get a 16-25 railcard - it costs only £28 and you get 33% off all tickets for a year.

And yes, it is 'the norm' for travelling models to have one... wink




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jan 06 13 01:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


sdgillis wrote:

If a photographer used my tattoo artwork without a release and made a book for his own profit I would probably sue him, or at least ask for several free copies.

We haven't discussed the details yet so there may be a release form. I would imagine so, he is selling his last book for £75 a book! Yikes!

Leone P

Jan 06 13 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

Get a 16-25 railcard - it costs only £28 and you get 33% off all tickets for a year.

And yes, it is 'the norm' for travelling models to have one... wink




Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Thankyou, i may just do that. Atleast then i'm not ruling out any long distance shoots due to expenses.
Leone P. x

Jan 06 13 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
sdgillis
Posts: 2,422
Portland, Oregon, US


Leone P wrote:

We haven't discussed the details yet so there may be a release form. I would imagine so, he is selling his last book for £75 a book! Yikes!

Leone P

at least credit the tattoo artist I hope smile

Jan 06 13 01:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,496
Portland, Oregon, US


BTHPhoto wrote:
Really?  She's 22 years old.  I understand some people have limited experience, but getting to an appointment at an address you're new to is a pretty basic task in the adult world.  I might expect someone 12 or 14 to need an assistant, but if a 22 year old told me they couldn't manage that, I'd just write them off as either a fruitcake or too immature to work with anyway.

Not everyone is good with directions, that does not mean they are a fruitcake or immature.  I know plenty of adults who absolutely suck at navigation and directions.

I was not saying she should not make more of an effort to become more self-sufficient and self-confident in that way, but even the most self-sufficient and competent person could appreciate the courtesy and professionalism of meeting someone at a train, airport, or bus station.

What DO you expect, that she should spend additional funds for a taxi?  Hire a rental car?  Walk for an undetermined distance in a strange town?

I did not say the photographer *should* provide that, but for fuck sake, it is not unreasonable to ask.

I guess I forgot that it is now against the rules of this site for photographers to act like anything other than judgmental, selfish, entitled assholes.

Jan 06 13 01:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,764
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


Leone P wrote:

Lovely. Yes i am 22 and no,i haven't had chance to have any travelling experience.
My childhood was not great so i never travelled anywhere alone or with family/friends for that matter.
I then had a family of my own and going anywhere further than 15 miles alone was never issue as i had no reason to.
I have done a few photoshoots that i was asked to do by a MUA friend, i have only just started to branch out on my own.
I shouldn't have to explain myself but you shouldn't make snap judgements on people you have never met. Or on anyone for that matter.

Leone P.

You don't have to explain yourself to me or anyone else.  However you asked for advice, and used a claim that you lack basic adult skills in order to rationalize your desire to behave in a way that you already admitted is frowned upon.  If you're going to put out something like that, then get defensive when people tell you it makes you sound immature, you're just reinforcing the initial perception. Someone needs to tell you to grow up, whether you want to hear it or not.

Jan 06 13 01:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 8,015
Olney, Maryland, US


Leone P wrote:
1) Location is 3.5 hours away by train and will cost £78.30 ...

3) I have no idea where the city is...

How do you know that the train fare will cost £78.30?

Jan 06 13 01:56 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

I think the OP wants him to wrap her up in a snuggly blanket and magically transport her to/from the studio.

I'm not sure if a unicorn and rainbows are expected too though so I guess he will have to negotiate that with her wink



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

I'm ignoring all the escort nonsense.
I don't know how people find folks to go to their shoots with them (sounds super fucking boring and I would have to seriously beg to get my boyfriend or a friend to agree) and I find it backwards that travelling would then be a reason to bring someone. Who the hell wants to get on a train for 3.5 hours and then just chill while someone else has a shoot, then get back on a freaking train for another 3.5 hours.

I don't get where these escorts come from so I don't feel qualified to give advice on them.


Norm for travel, for me, is to just go somewhere, OP. I've travelled all over the US and all by my lonesome and everything was a-ok. If you don't know where you're going, just call the photographer and ask for directions. I've had hilarious run-around-the-city no wait that's the same name but a different side of town where are you how did you even moments with the photographers I've worked with in the past a few times but it always worked out ok.

Jan 06 13 01:59 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


Leone P wrote:
I will also ask if there will be any compensation for travel expenses, if not then it is still worth it.

Thankyou again.

Leone P. x

Don't ask like that, then it sounds like you want to be paid.
Ask if he'd be willing to help with your train fare.

^my recommendation based on my personal opinion.

Jan 06 13 02:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,764
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


DougBPhoto wrote:

Not everyone is good with directions, that does not mean they are a fruitcake or immature.  I know plenty of adults who absolutely suck at navigation and directions.

I was not saying she should not make more of an effort to become more self-sufficient and self-confident in that way, but even the most self-sufficient and competent person could appreciate the courtesy and professionalism of meeting someone at a train, airport, or bus station.

What DO you expect, that she should spend additional funds for a taxi?  Hire a rental car?  Walk for an undetermined distance in a strange town?

I did not say the photographer *should* provide that, but for fuck sake, it is not unreasonable to ask.

I guess I forgot that it is now against the rules of this site for photographers to act like anything other than judgmental, selfish, entitled assholes.

Seriously? I expect an adult to behave like an adult.  I don't have any problem with them asking for help if they need it, but I expect people to make an effort to function for themselves, not to believe it's reasonable for someone to hold their hand while they manage basic social functions.  She's talking about getting to a place where she has an appointment, in a town, with addresses and maps and public transit, not navigating to the north pole on a bamboo raft.  If that makes me a judgmental, selfish, entitled asshole in your view, I guess you'll just have to learn to live with that.

Jan 06 13 02:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


Mark Salo wrote:

How do you know that the train fare will cost £78.30?

I got a quote from a 'plan your journey' feature on a trainline website. X

Jan 06 13 02:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
My name is Frank
Posts: 552
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


If shooting for a book project that is expected to go retail, some type of budget should be set and you should get compensated. That is how a professional operates in my world.
Jan 06 13 02:19 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


My name is Frank wrote:
If shooting for a book project that is expected to go retail, some type of budget should be set and you should get compensated. That is how a professional operates in my world.

lol
Great insight.

Jan 06 13 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5,304
London, England, United Kingdom


I would just get someone time to drive me there, that should help with two of those problems.

If no one could do that then i would just plan, plan, plan, and ask the photographer to cover my expenses.

But that's just me.
Jan 06 13 02:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


OP

This photographer approached you to model for him TF for content for a book he's producing which he intends to sell for profit. Is that correct?

And he wants you to travel for 3.5hrs by train at your own expense then find your way to the shoot location, incurring further expense if necessary? Is that correct?

And you do not know what the shoot will entail. Is that correct?

If this is indeed the situation at the moment then shame on him and shame on you. You both need a kick up the arse.
Jan 06 13 02:42 pm  Link  Quote 
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