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Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Drew Smith Photography wrote:
One of my favourite quotes:

"No, it (love) is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies."

From a conversation about 'love'.

So it is with 'art'; it's just a word that has a connection. The connection is different for all of us.

Some of us feel the need to have others tell us it is 'art' and others don't care what anybody else thinks.

That felt good to read. So true.

And still... it's the conversation about the meaning of a word that makes it possible for us to understand how others experience meaning.

I'm passionate about what "art" and what it means to me and so I'm curious what it means to someone else. Especially someone who creates what I think of as great "art".

The true nature of our individual experience of art (or anything) is beyond words... and language is still a pretty awesome way to explore and create ideas.

Creating meaning can be an art.

Jan 07 13 10:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
aquarelle
Posts: 1,907
Chicago, Illinois, US


Valente wrote:

Yes, it is. smile

Whew!  Thanks, Pal.

Jan 07 13 10:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarrylPascoePhotography
Posts: 451
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Art is simply art if at least one person considers it to be. Doesn't matter who it is or why they think so. It is art at that exact moment regardless of what it is. It sort of surprises me that some would say that something is only art if they like it is basically the statements I am seeing from some lol.

To say this is only art if I would hang it on my wall is egotistical imo. I would never say that because I do not like a shot for example does not remove it from being considered art. It is just not art I enjoy or wouldn't buy or hang up myself. It's still art.
Jan 07 13 10:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MaxImage
Posts: 16
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I don't consider myself an artist. The closest I can come is maybe an "art director". I'm actually a better musician than a photographer and sometimes I think photographers are the rappers of the art world. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter... learn your craft and let other people call you an artist.
Jan 07 13 10:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Fur Elise
Posts: 1,814
Seattle, Washington, US


David Bollt wrote:
I say... craftsmanship, imagination, creative intention and above all... GOOD TASTE.

Are you creating images that seem like real art? How much of what you see at Model Mayhem seems like art to you? What do you think makes an image a work of art, as opposed to just a photograph or a picture of a model?

Good taste is a matter of perspective.

Jan 07 13 10:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DA PHOTO
Posts: 1,517
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


anybody can make art

a dog can make art
so can clouds.

making a great living as a fine art photographer is yet another thing.
Jan 07 13 11:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Stenhouse
Posts: 2,658
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:
It sort of surprises me that some would say that something is only art if they like it is basically the statements I am seeing from some lol.

To say this is only art if I would hang it on my wall is egotistical imo. I would never say that because I do not like a shot for example does not remove it from being considered art. It is just not art I enjoy or wouldn't buy or hang up myself. It's still art.

I believe you might be referring to my post since only a couple of us mentioned walls. If so, I said 'a' wall not 'my' wall. There's zillions of images, paintings etc that I consider art that I would hang in my home. Zillions I wouldn't, it's still art. Some I think is great others not-so-much. I am picky though.. I haven't shot an image that I would refer to as art and hang in my own home.. but there's some pretty good stuff on this site! I do have pics of the kid, dog family etc hanging up, it's not art.

Having said that it's my personal opinion if someone staple guns a piece of used toilet paper (even three ply) to the wall and calls it art it doesn't automatically make it art for everyone. Sure they can call it art but I don't have to and I can say "hell no". Should I just shrug the shoulders and say, "well, it might be art for him, so I guess it is art".. hell no! big_smile

Jan 07 13 11:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,283
Danbury, Connecticut, US


"Taste is the enemy of creativity."
-Pablo Picasso


Art is whatever someone can convince someone else is art.
Jan 07 13 11:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Maarten Venter
Posts: 26
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


I can't criticize what I don't understand.
If you want to call this art, you've got the benefit of all my doubts.
  - Charles Rosin
Jan 07 13 11:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lumatic
Posts: 13,591
Chicago, Illinois, US


David Bollt wrote:
I say... craftsmanship, imagination, creative intention and above all... GOOD TASTE.

Are you creating images that seem like real art? How much of what you see at Model Mayhem seems like art to you? What do you think makes an image a work of art, as opposed to just a photograph or a picture of a model?

I've always liked this quote:

"Do not call yourself an ‘artist-photographer’ and make ‘artist-painters’ and ‘artist-sculptors’ laugh; call yourself a photographer and wait for artists to call you brother." 
- Peter Henry Emerson

Frankly, other than from a marketing standpoint I have no interest in whether or not something is called art - only whether or not I like it.

Jan 08 13 12:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Stenhouse
Posts: 2,658
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


Valente wrote:
and sometimes I think photographers are the rappers of the art world. I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter... learn your craft and let other people call you an artist.

big_smile my studio is in an old warehouse and i'm surrounded by painters. They half-jokingly refer to themselves as real artists. You are right it doesn't matter.

And guess what there's a new bastard child in the art world too... Many video game makers are trying to have their work seen as Art. I think MOMA is having an exhibit now or soon.

Jan 08 13 06:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 21,705
New York, New York, US


David Bollt wrote:
I say... craftsmanship, imagination, creative intention and above all... GOOD TASTE.

Are you creating images that seem like real art? How much of what you see at llama Mayhem seems like art to you? What do you think makes an image a work of art, as opposed to just a photograph or a picture of a llama?

I am a visual artist... in photography and in my surrealistic paintings.

However, most of what I am doing is not art, but needs creative vision, because I have to satisfy a client's demand, e.g. a designer to promote his/her fashion lines, or a product or similar.

I collaborate with Andy Golub, an artist and bodypainter, and many times, we work on a project, he paints and I shoot my style somewhere in the city or studio.

I also have a project, which is not really published yet, but created years ago and some of it is in my MM portfolio "The Disgruntled Bride", which is a photo series that will also be presented in a multimedia presentation, as well as several photo projects that are not realized but planned...

My sketchbook for paintings has enough sketches that, if I can do every months one painting, without having any new ideas..., I'd be busy for the next four years.

But... again... concerning MM, I am focussed on more commercial photos, because that's what I am making a living with... doing editorial/fashion work with llamas, often from MM.

However, I do not personally judge other people's work whether they created art or not..., but there are portfolios that I come across where I definitely feel/know that those are true artists and I usually don't dismiss people whose work is not to my taste, because others may still love that work.


That's all!
(Meryl Streep's voice in "The Devil Wears Prada")  smile

Jan 08 13 06:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MesmerEyes Photography
Posts: 2,796
Tyler, Texas, US


VikyL wrote:
"We know what art is: it's paintings of horses."

You sure it isn't paint horses?

Jan 08 13 08:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Lumatic wrote:

I've always liked this quote:

"Do not call yourself an ‘artist-photographer’ and make ‘artist-painters’ and ‘artist-sculptors’ laugh; call yourself a photographer and wait for artists to call you brother." 
- Peter Henry Emerson

Frankly, other than from a marketing standpoint I have no interest in whether or not something is called art - only whether or not I like it.

I prefer this quote:

'I have no interest in whether or not something is called art - only whether or not I like it.'  - Lumatic.

Jan 08 13 08:12 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,904
New York, New York, US


DA PHOTO wrote:
anybody can make art

a dog can make art
so can clouds.

making a great living as a fine art photographer is yet another thing.

I was watching Inside the Actors Studio last night and it was the episode with Francis Ford Coppola.  He made the statement that, you can always tell who's in power at any point in time, buy understanding who pays the artists. 

He's right.

Jan 08 13 09:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Fur Elise wrote:

Good taste is a matter of perspective.

Yes of course... Everything is a matter of perspective. So what's your perspective?

Jan 08 13 09:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Maarten Venter wrote:
I can't criticize what I don't understand.
If you want to call this art, you've got the benefit of all my doubts.
  - Charles Rosin

smile

Jan 08 13 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,904
New York, New York, US


Neil Snape wrote:
Hell no.

I just came back from a meeting with Sebastiao Salgado showing some pix for the next world tour expo. Makes everything I've done seem destined for electronic salvage.

But you're not a social documentarian?  If you wanted to be you certainly could be.  And is documentary art?  I think in some hands it most certainly is.  There are many, however, who would disagree. 

In the end I think much of it comes down to what you're trying to say.  What your narrative is and how that narrative lives within the context of the society you live in, the zeitgeist if you will.

There was a time when to be art, something simply had to be beautiful.  In a post modern sense that doesn't really hold true.  In fact, in some academic circles, the opposite is actually valued more.   

I sent you a shot of a still life boot last night.  It wasn't an art project or a commercial project, it was just a test.  You mentioned brushing out the suede (which I did) -- I didn't like the result and prefer the original.  It is imperfect, but that is what I like about it.  When I shoot still life, I tend to approach it as if I'm doing a portrait. I try to figure out "who" the character is and shoot that. It's not always perfect (unless I'm being paid to make it so).

In the end, for some reason, many here tend to think that "art" is a label that is used as a reward for achieving a level of accomplishment in their own mind (as the viewer).  But is it?  That is certainly how we appraise work that first sets out to be something else, such as the work by Salgado, or even more commercial imagery after enough time has past.  But is that the only qualifier?  If that's the case then there is no bad art.  Only art, and non-art.  I do not ascribe to this school of thought.  If someone despises opera, does that mean it is not art?  Or is it just not art to them?  Or can we also say that they are ignorant and that their opinion doesn't matter? 

Art is created.  By this I mean, artists set out to create art.  You would never hear a sculptor say: "hey, I'm just doing what I want, you know man and like, well if others think it's art, that's cool, but I don't really care."  No, they're setting out to create a work of art.  They may feel it's a failure.  They may destroy it.  They may feel it has risen to a level that they can be proud of.  But they are artists. Photography had to fight to be considered an art form (thank you Mr. Stieglitz) due to it's mechanical nature, but it is an art form as long as it is practiced as one. 

The reason I said in my previous post that "I don't know" if what I'm doing is art has more to do with why I create certain images rather than the end result.  If a gallery likes a series I shot and requests something similar because they know it will sell (and this happens ALL the time, to myself and others) and I comply - providing a perfectly pleasing set of images that mean absolutely nothing to me and were only produced as a commodity, and they sell... is it art?  That's a really tough question to answer.  Most here, myself included, would be inclined to say no, but history is replete with such examples, often by famous artists.  What if I, like Warhol, simply hire others to create my vision, is that art? 

I suppose, after having thought about this for the past 24 hours, that art is, most of all, a process - a dialog that we first have with ourselves and then, should the conversation be compelling enough, with others.

Jan 08 13 09:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


L Raye wrote:
I like to think that sometimes I can make art.

I think so. Beautiful work!

Jan 08 13 09:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Carlos Occidental wrote:
My images themselves may or may not be art.  But, the way I print them (hand coated cyanotypes and platinum/palladium) makes them fine art, and allows me to sell them as such.

I would hang many of your images in a frame. Beautiful.

Jan 08 13 09:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:

There are so many senses that art will affect.  some are totally emotional and others are more temporal. 

There is one portrait, I'm pretty sure was by Robert Mapplethorpe. Maybe someone here can find a link. I'm pretty sure I saw a portrait of his.   I think it was Jackson Pollack's wife.  Whoever the woman, it was a profile portrait. She had a hooked nose, no discernible chin and very pronounced lips.  She had what some might say was an unfortunate profile.

But she had such confidence in her expression that that she looked incredible in stature and very comfortable with herself.  I've always admired Mapplethorpe's work but that portrait seemed to me, to be the ultimate portrait.  To me it truly captured the inner beauty.

Nice!

Jan 08 13 10:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L Raye
Posts: 4,990
Petaluma, California, US


To me, great art is something that makes you stop, look for a long time, go away, think about it during the next few days, go back and see it again and again, and think about it some more.  In some small way (and maybe not so small), it changes you.

This is one of those works that affected me:

http://notipoemas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/El-primer-duelo-William-Adolphe-Bouguereau.jpg

El Primer Duelo (The FIrst Death)
Adolphe Bouguereau, 1888
Jan 08 13 10:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nick Peluffo
Posts: 120
Brooklyn, New York, US


Andy Warhol said that an artist is someone who creates things people don't need. By his own definition, I'm a better artist than he ever was.
Jan 08 13 10:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Thomas Dodd wrote:
The typically pretentious response is to say "It is art because I am an artist and I say it is art"
The typical self-deprecating response it to say "It is not for me to judge whether I am an artist or not... I am a photographer or a painter or a sculptor - it is only the perceptions of others that label it Art or merely craft"

Perhaps the real definition is somewhere between the two..

Thomas... I like the pretentious response. While they both might be true, this is the answer that let's me know you and let's us understand each other.

I understand all meaning is relative and yet people still speak and passionately advocate ideas.

Jan 08 13 10:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


EnlightendedPhotography wrote:
Do you think I am creating art?

Yes.

Jan 08 13 10:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David Bollt
Posts: 90
Asheville, North Carolina, US


L Raye wrote:
To me, great art is something that makes you stop, look for a long time, go away, think about it during the next few days, go back and see it again and again, and think about it some more.  In some small way (and maybe not so small), it changes you.

This is one of those works that affected me:

http://notipoemas.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/El-primer-duelo-William-Adolphe-Bouguereau.jpg

El Primer Duelo (The FIrst Death)
Adolphe Bouguereau, 1888

Agreed. This is stunning!

Jan 08 13 10:41 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 20,904
New York, New York, US


David Bollt wrote:

Agreed. This is stunning!

And yet, if it were created today, the art world would largely dismiss it - which goes back to the point that R Michael Walker cited on the first page of this thread:

R Michael Walker wrote:
You an I have very little to say about what IS art. That's left to magazines, collectors, galleries and critics.

As to the rest of his post:

R Michael Walker wrote:
But to me the main test of art that most people fail to take into consideration is time. Hot stuff today becomes next year's also ran. Style is another forgoten element it seems. Many people flit from look to look like they are a dozen different artists. Others do the same stuff for 40 years. Another Faux method used to imply style where there is none is to include the same prop in every photo. Style develops or it doesn't. IT can't be forced. An Edward Weston Pepper shows his touch as surely as any of his nudes.

It's in a state of flux right now and we may be returning to a more traditionalist period.  Academia is still firmly in the postmodernist camp, however the main buyers today (the large, serious buyers) are not feeding that particular machine.  The largest segment of art buyers right now are largely Russian and Eastern Europeans with massive wealth, followed up by the Wall St. types who see it as much as an investment as an aesthetic purchase.  Both of these groups are trending to more traditional forms of beauty that the postmodern school tends to dismiss.  I am hopeful for this shift as I was never a postmodernist, being drawn much more to the modernist view of the world.  Time will tell.

Jan 08 13 11:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L Raye
Posts: 4,990
Petaluma, California, US


David Bollt wrote:
Agreed. This is stunning!
Paramour Productions wrote:
And yet, if it were created today, the art world would largely dismiss it - which goes back to the point that R Michael Walker cited on the first page of this thread:

I wonder.  If this were something entirely new, and represented a different form of art, would its beauty and genius be recognized?  Or would it be rejected as something too radical, like much of Matisse's work when it was first done?

Is it possible that it would be rejected today since the art world has moved on so much in the past 125 years?

Can we still learn something by viewing works like these?  Is it still worthy of being hung in a museum?

Jan 08 13 12:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura BrokenDoll
Posts: 3,548
Modena, Emilia-Romagna, Italy


Definition of what art is and what is not depends on too many variables: historical context, society, geography... I just try to make things I find interesting and good to look at smile
Jan 08 13 01:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
JJMiller
Posts: 467
Buffalo, New York, US


To me, art is something imbued with skill, energy, and personality. It's simple, but rare. There is no ego involved, and no concern for money, yet it is very selfish. It is a drive to recreate something in one's own terms. That is art.
Jan 08 13 05:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lumatic
Posts: 13,591
Chicago, Illinois, US


Drew Smith Photography wrote:
I prefer this quote:

'I have no interest in whether or not something is called art - only whether or not I like it.'  - Lumatic.

LOL

Jan 08 13 09:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,338
Tempe, Arizona, US


Always and ever in the eye of the beholder...!  :-)
Jan 08 13 09:39 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,917
New York, New York, US


What makes it art is making it.

What makes it good art is my opinion that it's art.

IMHO, as always.
Jan 09 13 10:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NRPhoto
Posts: 4
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


Each generation must define the reality of their world as they experience it. That is the role of the artist. The biggest issue when it comes to defining photography as a medium of art is both the ease and the complexity of its technical aspects and how these aspects produce the final result. The camera, as we know it, can be controlled based on given variables at which the photographer can use to his or her advantage. Sometimes this is caused intentionally and sometimes it is accidental. What matters the most is the final result. How it affects the viewer is a matter of subjectivity.
Jan 09 13 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,206
Los Angeles, California, US


I have this on my profile:

“The object of art is not to make sellable pictures. It is to save yourself.”
Sherwood Anderson in a 1927 letter to his son.

I need to shoot almost every day. When I don't shoot, I go nuts.

I'm glad there are some good people out there that like my work enough to pay for it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to shoot, and I'd go nuts.
Jan 09 13 06:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PocketChangeProductions
Posts: 87
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Everyone who creates, creates art whether they like that fact or not.

Whether anyone else likes what is created or not only matters if you let their opinions have value to how you feel about the art you created or yourself.
Jan 09 13 11:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 8,878
Santa Barbara, California, US


I don't create Art, I create photographs that I hope are Artistic for the viewer and myself. If it is something that someone would want to frame and hang it in their home or studio, only then it becomes Art and I have succeeded in that crossover from photograph to art.

For now all I have are self expressions of photographs with the potential to be considered art.
Jan 09 13 11:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarrylPascoePhotography
Posts: 451
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Kevin Stenhouse wrote:
Should I just shrug the shoulders and say, "well, it might be art for him, so I guess it is art".. hell no! big_smile

Yep cause you are not the decider of what art is or isn't. You are only the decider of whether you like this art or that art. You can hate a piece of art that doesn't mean its not art. It means you don't like that particular art. There is a lot I look at and think what the....        again doesn't mean its not art because I don't like it.

Now you want to talk about whether or not you think something is "Good" art...now that's a subjective thing you can decide on for yourself as do we all.

Jan 09 13 11:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SYCF
Posts: 271
Los Angeles, California, US


4 years of art school has taught me art is art if you call it art. As simple and as complicated as that.
Jan 09 13 11:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 5,930
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Art is the product of your creativity.

Hopefully, many will appreciate it, not only you...

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/dreamanatomy/Children/Artwork/images/kid-art-Medhia-Mahmood.jpg

.
Jan 10 13 02:22 am  Link  Quote 
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