give them what you think is best. Also after the shoot- do you show them the pictures so they can pick them or you send the proofs through email etc. Assuming you let them choose. What you use to show them: the back of the dslr lcd screen, in a laptop, or ipad?
Angel Portraits wrote: give them what you think is best. Also after the shoot- do you show them the pictures so they can pick them or you send the proofs through email etc. Assuming you let them choose. What you use to show them: the back of the dslr lcd screen, in a laptop, or ipad?
Using Light room you can create a gallery to transmit to them ... I do this for paying clients
I include some edits to show options - but mostly unedited all shot (I just delete the closed eyes or whatever)
For TFCD models I chose any I like / think they might like and edit them and send large and smaller finished / edited files (I don't delete anything usually and I always offer to retouch more later if they want)
Clients images I will keep for a limited time only. I want them to see on computer ... but best is to bring them in and show on a large TV screen if I want to sell
I pick out and edit the shots that I think are the best. When I give her the finished files, I show her the rest (after taking out the junk ones) and if she wants others I'll usually do those as well. Typically, she's happy with what I already did and will only want a couple more.
It's important to note that for a full day's shoot, I'll process 50+ photos. I don't mind giving the model everything I processed.
R_Marquez
Posts: 4,575
San Francisco, California, US
I tend to do as tight an edit as I can, and then let them choose from those. I usually use LR galleries uploaded to my web space, but I have also used Zenfolio.
If the client is the model then roughly after each look we go through the images on the A-I-O or Laptop for indoor/studio shoots and I-pad for outdoor location shoots to make sure they are happy and have "the shot".
Depending on time after the shoot we either go through the images do the final pick or give them small proof images on disk/USB stick and they can go through and pick on their own time. I find the camera LCD too small and a pain to make proper judgment from unless necessary.
Clients/Customers know what they want and we need to keep them happy so let them choose. If there's a perfect shot I think they should have chosen but didn't I can always add it in as a bonus if I wanted to.
Angel Portraits wrote: give them what you think is best. Also after the shoot- do you show them the pictures so they can pick them or you send the proofs through email etc. Assuming you let them choose. What you use to show them: the back of the dslr lcd screen, in a laptop, or ipad?
It is so different when you work with businesses, with their ad agencys. It is so different when you work with professionals..
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
Angel Portraits wrote: give them what you think is best. Also after the shoot- do you show them the pictures so they can pick them or you send the proofs through email etc. Assuming you let them choose.
Depends on the client. Some I choose and they're happy with that. Some I do basic LR adjustments on them all and either they come for a viewing, or I send them an online gallery and they pick. Some they're watching it live as I'm shooting on monitors, and they direct and adjust and pick as we go and take the files with them at the end of the shoot.
Angel Portraits wrote: What you use to show them: the back of the dslr lcd screen, in a laptop, or ipad?
Anything from an iPad to a 42" TV. Again, depends on the client, and what they need to see.
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
Bernadette Newberry wrote: I pick out and edit the shots I like best. I don't show anyone unedited pictures, not my paid clients or TF models. It's unfinished work IMO.
If they're paying me enough money, I'll show 'em whatever they want to see.
Kaouthia wrote: If they're paying me enough money, I'll show 'em whatever they want to see.
Not me. I'm fully against putting out unfinished work (I take probably an obscene amount of care in post processing, though.) That's just me. I save over my incomplete images with the completed image and call it a day. I delete anything that doesn't make the final cut.
edit: Oh, you said "enough" money. Sure, everyone has their price, even me! LOL
"The difference between a professional and an amateur photographer? A professional shows no one their junk."
I give my clients a few choices for each shot they need... typically about 5 - processed for exposure, color balance, etc. but no retouching. Usually on a notebook (send via Dropbox sometimes, but have had some interesting reactions from clients who looked at the photos on an IPhone).
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
Bernadette Newberry wrote: Not me. I'm fully against putting out unfinished work (I take probably an obscene amount of care in post processing, though.) That's just me. I save over my incomplete images with the completed image and call it a day. I delete anything that doesn't make the final cut.
With business and commercial clients, you don't always have that option.
Some want to see the image as it comes in, and have their own post processing guys work on it to match their standard corporate look and feel.
With business and commercial clients, you don't always have that option.
Some want to see the image as it comes in, and have their own post processing guys work on it to match their standard corporate look and feel.
To me, that's more money and less work.
Oh, I see. I often don't take that into consideration because I haven't envisioned corporate photography as a possibility for me (at least, not at this stage), but that makes sense.
Even though I may have my own favorites, I allow the model to pick the images they like because its going to be for their portfolio and they may want a particular shot added that I may have overlooked or not included. Someone mentioned they create a gallery in LR. Can something similar be done in Photoshop CS6? Until I get my site up and running where the client will have access to their own gallery to see their proofs, I have be sending proofs through Dropbox.
RKD Photographic
Posts: 2,989
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Depends on the client and what the brief calls for - with pure commercial shoots it's usually a joint decision: I'll edit out any dross, supply a short-list to work from and from those we'll choose the right shot or shots.
If it's a TFP shoot with a model, then I'll pick the shots I like best and supply the model with retouched copies of those.
Or as mentioned above, sometimes the client will have relegated you to little more than the button-pusher, with other creatives on board to finish the image...
Clients? What kind of clients? Commercial? Portrait? Wedding?
It will be different for all. I may take upwards to 2000+ images at a wedding but edit that down to less than 200 to show the client.
In my portrait work, I project my images and use ProSelect to immediately show the proofs after the sitting so I have no time edit. I usually take 40-50 images anyway (depends how many people in the shot, poses, etc.) so we can get through them quickly. And I have no problem with my clients seeing any shot I took of them. For shots where they closed their eyes or looked away or whatever? Big deal. Takes about 1 sec. to delete and move on to the next.
If your shooting "junk" maybe you shouldn't have clients to begin with.
I'll send a first edit to a client thru PixOasis or other delivery system and then they can create a light box gallery with the images. It they want something more specific then they can come to the studio and sit with me and we'll go thru the take and then pick your poison.
If their business is high quality printing and they have their own post processing team, they will want the raw images. One of my clients wants every last image, don't delete a single one. Another wants me to select my best 3 and then submit raw images.
On the other hand, if their business is not printing, I ask them specifically what their requirements are, pixels, colour space, file format and then I do all the post work myself.
Either way, I like to establish that the images will be made to look their best.
I post all my photos low rez from the shoot on my site as proofs and let them pick out for me to edit.. I also pick out my likes. Funny what I like in a family photo is not the one the family like.. So I give them what they want they are paying for it.
I do the same for TF models but I cut down the numbers they can have and some times over rule their picks and give them mine.
L2
Any photo which you don't want to represent you and your work.
Okay. I'll agree with that.
So why did you take the shot to begin with?
I know I'm sounding simplistic but it's true. Sure, we all take shots that aren't exactly what you wanted but I wouldn't call them "junk". And I'm not saying I don't take shots that I don't like. If I'm testing or trying some new technique, I am sure I will take some shots that didn't work or I din't like. That's fine. That's why we test and learn. But when there is a client in front of me, I'm not going to be trying something new and perhaps create "junk". They pay me because I convinced them I was the best person for the job and I know what I'm doing.
"Sorry Mr. Client. During your portrait sitting we shot junk so we will have to do it again." Why would you shoot junk with a paying client? Your a pro because you know what your doing. You know how to deliver the goods. I seem to read that all the time on these forums.
There is a HUGE difference between junk and shot that just needs some tweaking, or a turn of the head, or an eye blink or whatever.
we used to post an online gallery and let the client choose but we're moving toward making the choice ourselves. sometimes it took a while for the client to choose and in a few cases they never got back to us.
for headshots we have them choose right after the shoot. otherwise we might just give them a CD of our favorite 25-35 images from the shoot. for senior shoots sometimes we make 4x6 prints and do in-studio proofing (hoping to upsell more that way).
there are many ways to do it. my feeling is you want to make the most money for the least amount of work/hassle. you have to find a way that works for you and for your clients. supposedly in-person proofing (and in particular projection selling) is best.
for models we let them choose if it's a trade shoot.
some people are very hard to get with their eyes open. some people look awful from certain angles. and some of the shots are tests/experiments. sometimes it takes a bit to get the lighting tweaked (we had a lady yesterday who had vampire skin and shined not matter what we tried) so there's definitely some junk. our strobes aren't very good at freezing motion so you wind up with some blurry images even at 1/200s. our wedding contract states that we only have to give them the shots we like, not all the shots that were taken.
for me it's not about the bad ones. it's about the good ones. you just need to get enough good ones to satisfy your contractual obligation and make the client happy.
in our case since we shoot into a TV in the studio they get to see the junk. but they also can help us figure out which angles they like best and give us feedback as we go along.
Mike Collins wrote: There is a HUGE difference between junk and shot that just needs some tweaking, or a turn of the head, or an eye blink or whatever.
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
Mike Collins wrote: Sure, we all take shots that aren't exactly what you wanted but I wouldn't call them "junk".
Some folks would.
Different people have different levels of standard for "junk".
On a more personal note, some entire jobs I've done I've classed as "junk".
Decent enough images, not very challenging, clients loved 'em, they were absolutely over the moon with them, paid me, job done. To me, they're junk. They're not what I want to create, they're not what I want to put in my portfolio, they're not what I want to be known or hired for, but if somebody calls me up and says "can you do it?" and offers me enough money for it, sure, I'll do it.
I've had other shoots where I and everybody who's seen them has thought the images were awesome, except for the person paying for 'em. They thought they were junk, because they didn't like how their nose looked, or their chin, or whatever other personal "defect" they've been obsessing over since they were in high school.
Not me. I'm fully against putting out unfinished work (I take probably an obscene amount of care in post processing, though.) That's just me. I save over my incomplete images with the completed image and call it a day. I delete anything that doesn't make the final cut.
edit: Oh, you said "enough" money. Sure, everyone has their price, even me! LOL
That may work if you're working with a model as the client. But 90% of the clients I've worked with attend the shoot and are viewing the images on a tethered laptop or monitor. They see everything I shoot and cull the images as they're shot. The client is part of the review and selection process.
At the end of the shoot I have a handful of images which are passed on for further review by others. When it's all said and done they've selected the final images and I either do the post or they have someone else do that.
I actually prefer that way because there's no wasted time predicting which images need further work and supplying images by trial-and-error. Just because I may think an image is the best doesn't mean it's the best for the client.
I usually send her some PDF file with all the picts (created thanks to Adobe Bridge), along with some selection suggestion. Then she send me her own selection, and I try to make a 2nd selection based on both previous ones.
we did a headshot for a doctor lady yesterday and she told us to choose (too busy to sit down and make the choice herself and she didn't really care anyway since work forced her to do it). well, we chose (and retouched) and now she's like "are there any more?" sigh this is why i don't like choosing, especially for chicks. partly because i'll tend to choose the ones that are best technically and will require the least retouching.
I have chosen for my clients. I don't have the luxury of a cookie cutter place which can immediately transfer the files to a computer. Besides, you will be showing your bad work and you don't want that. This happens because your not in a control environment like in a studio and so many are going to need adjustments etc. The other option is to send proofs on a pdf file with your logo on them. Make them choose and then do whatever retouching is needed. Its also a lot of work unless your getting paid a premium. Also, many clients live far off so traveling to them to show them the pictures afterwards is not cost effective.
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
GreatMomentsPhotography wrote: I don't have the luxury of a cookie cutter place which can immediately transfer the files to a computer. Besides, you will be showing your bad work and you don't want that. This happens because your not in a control environment like in a studio and so many are going to need adjustments etc.
"cookie cutter place"? Not sure what you mean. I shoot tethered on location all the time. Either via USB cable or WiFi grip to a laptop, or Eye-Fi to an iPad. No problem.
Yes, things are going to need adjustments, and then the client's paying for the shots they want, they see the images as they come in and the adjustments are made to give them what they want.
Just because a shot comes through that they don't want doesn't mean it's a "bad image", it's just not the one they want.
That may work if you're working with a model as the client. But 90% of the clients I've worked with attend the shoot and are viewing the images on a tethered laptop or monitor. They see everything I shoot and cull the images as they're shot. The client is part of the review and selection process.
At the end of the shoot I have a handful of images which are passed on for further review by others. When it's all said and done they've selected the final images and I either do the post or they have someone else do that.
I actually prefer that way because there's no wasted time predicting which images need further work and supplying images by trial-and-error. Just because I may think an image is the best doesn't mean it's the best for the client.
That's fine that you do it that way. I don't only shoot models, either. Even for my families, engagements, and seniors I still choose the best ones and present them with a finished product for viewing. I take great care to make sure that I choose pictures that make the client look best, and then I further edit the pictures to make them look as perfect as possible (but still like an actual human being -- no poreless skin or CG eyes for me like a lot of family photogs). I've always been very picky with pictures of myself, so I have a little insight into what women (usually the female clients are the pickiest) will look for in a great finished product. So far, everyone has been thrilled (I'm aware that down the road someone might not be as happy as the clients I've had so far, but unless it's a special circumstance I'm not going to provide the unedited pics.)
Bernadette Newberry wrote: That's fine that you do it that way. I don't only shoot models, either. Even for my families, engagements, and seniors I still choose the best ones and present them with a finished product for viewing. I take great care to make sure that I choose pictures that make the client look best, and then I further edit the pictures to make them look as perfect as possible (but still like an actual human being -- no poreless skin or CG eyes for me like a lot of family photogs). I've always been very picky with pictures of myself, so I have a little insight into what women (usually the female clients are the pickiest) will look for in a great finished product. So far, everyone has been thrilled (I'm aware that down the road someone might not be as happy as the clients I've had so far, but unless it's a special circumstance I'm not going to provide the unedited pics.)
And that makes perfect sense. And I should mention I wouldn't shoot that way with any client. If I was shooting Senior portraits or engagement shots, or even a model...I wouldn't want family there viewing the images as they're shot and commenting. I would perform the shoot, do my own selection process and provide a proof for their review.
But in a commercial setting with a creative and/or art director, marketing reps and others involved in the process it's very rare that I would be allowed the latitude to just shoot and provide them with what I like the best.
For example, they know the copy/text that is going to accompany the image and where it's going to be orientated on the page (layout). So they will make recommendations based on that so I can fine tune composition, lighting, focus, etc. That's invaluable information to get the shot they want and very often creatives are visual people and need to see the shots before they can comment on how things need to change.
Sure, some provide the info in a creative brief and just let you have free reign and don't even attend the shoot...and we all love those...but they are few and far between for me.