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Model
SweetGirlyGirl
Posts: 60
Augusta, Georgia, US


This is for the models.
Why are so many models doing 18+ shoots for TFP?
Jan 08 13 10:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Calypso Moon
Posts: 848
Banning, California, US


Depends on the model.  Generally, people do TFP to improve their portfolio.  If they want to make money as a nude model, but don't have any good nude photos, it makes sense to do a trade shoot to get some good images that will make that person more marketable and therefore generate more money in the future.

Some people just like modeling nude, and don't care about the pay.
Jan 08 13 10:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 26,941
Dearborn, Michigan, US


They are doing it for experience and images.  They want to improve their portfolio and their modeling.
Jan 08 13 10:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Srefis Limited
Posts: 960
Asheville, North Carolina, US


For experience most likely.
One of my first nude models whom I was paying the rate she requested.. She kept saying "I don't know what I should do next." so half of the shoot was me striking a pose for her to mimic. I should have been charging her instead.
Jan 08 13 10:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,845
Seattle, Washington, US


For the same reason models do TFP for images that aren't 18+.

To build a portfolio of great 18+ images, so they are more likely to get hired for 18+ projects.

Some like shooting 18+ nude images simply for the art, and don't do it for the money.

Is this hard to believe or something?
Jan 08 13 10:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,129
Orlando, Florida, US


For the same reason they do NON 18+ TFP.


What are you having an issue with, specifically?
Jan 08 13 10:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dark Shadows
Posts: 2,269
Miami, Florida, US


I believe that offering nude TFP shoots is a really effective way for models to get good photographers to work with them.
Jan 08 13 10:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,348
Tempe, Arizona, US


MelissaAnn  wrote:
For the same reason models do TFP for images that aren't 18+.

To build a portfolio of great 18+ images, so they are more likely to get hired for 18+ projects.

Some like shooting 18+ nude images simply for the art, and don't do it for the money.

Is this hard to believe or something?

+1

Jan 08 13 10:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Wolfy4u
Posts: 1,080
Grand Junction, Colorado, US


I think that one of the best reasons for doing TF projects is to have a shoot were
1/2 of the photos are for the model and 1/2 of the photos are for the photographer. If the photographer wants nudes and the model wants beauty shots, they can both achieve what they need by helping each other.
I keep seeing this attitude that every photo in the shoot has to be useful to the model or she shouldn't agree to the shoot. This makes no sense to me. If every photo is valuable, that's even better, but the goal should be that each person gains what they need and they give what the other person needs in return.
Jan 08 13 10:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
SweetGirlyGirl
Posts: 60
Augusta, Georgia, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
For the same reason they do NON 18+ TFP.


What are you having an issue with, specifically?

I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

Jan 08 13 10:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1,626
Eureka, California, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
This is for the models.
Why are so many models doing 18+ shoots for TFP?

So you think that a model should automatically be paid because of nudity?

Jan 08 13 10:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,217
Salem, Oregon, US


even models who can get paid for nudes sometimes do trade when it suits them like when they need something specific for their portfolio or are between paid shoots and want to keep the motor running.

and some models just prefer to model nude, regardless of whether they get paid.

we shoot sets for zivity and so the model can get some exposure and maybe a few votes on there. sometimes they get a fan who buys them stuff off their amazon wish list and then they want to shoot a set using that outfit.
Jan 08 13 10:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
SweetGirlyGirl
Posts: 60
Augusta, Georgia, US


Wolfy4u wrote:
I think that one of the best reasons for doing TF projects is to have a shoot were
1/2 of the photos are for the model and 1/2 of the photos are for the photographer. If the photographer wants nudes and the model wants beauty shots, they can both achieve what they need by helping each other.
I keep seeing this attitude that every photo in the shoot has to be useful to the model or she shouldn't agree to the shoot. This makes no sense to me. If every photo is valuable, that's even better, but the goal should be that each person gains what they need and they give what the other person needs in return.

I agree with you on that. A lot of times when I'm paid for a shoot, I don't get any images, or any edited images.

Jan 08 13 10:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Apodyopsis
Posts: 6,073
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


It's nobody's job but your own to get you work.

If they want to go butt naked for a crappy shoot for tf, that's their prerogative and it doesn't affect you. Or rather, it shouldn't affect you. If it does, you're marketing towards the wrong people or you're not doing something right.


Not everyone's in this for the business, lots of girls are just hobbyists and do everything for tf.

Your problems might also have to do with the fact that none of your listed places of residency are major hotspots for paid modelling gigs, and you're nearing 30. The longer you do this the less valuable you become.
Jan 08 13 10:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Mischa Marie
Posts: 7,891
Sacramento, California, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
This is for the models.
Why are so many models doing 18+ shoots for TFP?

Why does anybody do tf?
The amount of skin you are showing doesn't automatically make it a paid shoot.

Jan 08 13 10:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tim Little Photography
Posts: 11,530
Wilmington, Delaware, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:

I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

Are you sure TFP is running away business? Might there be other issues or perceptions that might cause photographers to work with someone else?

Jan 08 13 10:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,845
Seattle, Washington, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

Maybe time to do some TF yourself, and increase the quality of your port.  (I haven't looked at your port, but even experienced nude models will often TF with exceptional photographers).

I get paid to shoot nudes too, but it's the TF that always increases the value of my port.....and then I get even more paid offers.

If I never did nude TF, my port would not be nearly as good.

TF is not working for free, it really pays off (if you choose to do it with the right photographers).  You just have to take a longer term view of things.  wink

Jan 08 13 10:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Burlap Rats
Posts: 18,931
Riverside, California, US


Why not?
Jan 08 13 10:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,870
Albany, New York, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
This is for the models.
Why are so many models doing 18+ shoots for TFP?

Maybe because they...

- believe in the project

- find value in whatever it is they'll be getting in return

- think not every HAS TO be about money

Jan 08 13 10:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dagger133
Posts: 352
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

Well there's the problem; TFP isn't free it is an exchange of services. For example:

in exchange for posing for the bodyscape works, 18+ http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/28721994 18+ http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/27787099

I shot headshots http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120329/22/4f75437cb0128_m.jpg and pinups 18 + http://www.redbubble.com/people/dagger1 … 342-pin-up for her port, No money changed hands but we both got value for our time and efforts, that is the basis of TFP. Neither of our time is with out value [FREE]

Jan 08 13 10:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7,606
Monterey, California, US


I've had models shoot 18+ concepts with me on a trade basis because they either liked my concepts or felt that I could deliver the results they were looking for.

Or maybe some of 'em just don't like clothing! tongue (lol)
Jan 08 13 10:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPV Photo
Posts: 763
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Why would shooting 18+ for TFP any different than doing non 18+ TFP?
Jan 08 13 10:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,867
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
This is for the models.
Why are so many models doing 18+ shoots for TFP?

Because I am not in it for the money.

Srefis Limited wrote:
For experience most likely.
One of my first nude models whom I was paying the rate she requested.. She kept saying "I don't know what I should do next." so half of the shoot was me striking a pose for her to mimic. I should have been charging her instead.

++this

OP there is someone in your neck of the woods who I couldn't afford to repay in the least for his generosity in shooting with me. I've listed him in my profile and regard him highly. He taught me so much!
Jen
p.s. gosh your profile is pretty harsh...ouch!!

SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

Somehow I think that other models looking to do TF work is costing you money is not logical. If they are shooting tf with photographers then those are photographers who are not necessarily looking to pay in the first place.

Jan 08 13 10:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Skydancer Photos
Posts: 21,905
Santa Cruz, California, US


MelissaAnn  wrote:
For the same reason models do TFP for images that aren't 18+.

To build a portfolio of great 18+ images, so they are more likely to get hired for 18+ projects.

Some like shooting 18+ nude images simply for the art, and don't do it for the money.

Is this hard to believe or something?

*nods in agreement*

Jan 08 13 10:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J-PhotoArt
Posts: 358
San Francisco, California, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

Obviously, not everyone models Nude to make money.  I work with quite a few people that model Nude just for the creative outlet & process. 

As a matter of fact, most of the models found in this one of my ports did not charge me to model for the project.  I also have models in this port that model Nude as a full time job who will model Nude TFP for me on specific projects.

I am not completely sure why you think that other people modeling Nude is affecting you finding work.  Not everyone is involved in modeling and / or photography for money. 

I want to work with people based on there skills, body shape and particular look as a model and that like my style of art and concepts that will help enhance both of our portfolios.

Jan 08 13 10:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravo Magic Images
Posts: 765
Temple City, California, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

I belive what your trying to impress is that if an unexpieranced nude model is doing it for free they are takeing away your chances of getting good nude money. I have to tell you that is not the fact the fact is that any photographer no matter how unexpieranced the model is will always take the oppertunity  to work with a free model,

Jan 08 13 11:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,012
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Bravo Magic Images wrote:

I belive what your trying to impress is that if an unexpieranced nude model is doing it for free they are takeing away your chances of getting good nude money. I have to tell you that is not the fact the fact is that any photographer no matter how unexpieranced the model is will alway take the oppertunity  to work with a free model,

unless what the photographer wants/needs is someone with experience. At which point you need to be able to show that you have experience worth paying for.

Jan 08 13 11:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J Welborn
Posts: 2,552
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


Some may even need to pay some one to get images for their own promotion. They have a good look but low quality images .

You know I adore your work but you have experience.
Jan 08 13 11:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DVP Photography
Posts: 2,852
Broomfield, Colorado, US


Here it is real simple,  Whether a shoot is paid or TFP has nothing to do with how much or how little clothes a model is wearing.  No correlation!  There are lots of other factors that determine this, but I don't want to complicate the answer.
Jan 08 13 11:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5,409
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


DVP Photography wrote:
Here it is real simple,  Whether a shoot is paid or TFP has nothing to do with how much or how little clothes a model is wearing.  No correlation!  There are lots of other factors that determine this, but I don't want to complicate the answer.

bullshit. The vast majority of paid shoots on MM are nude shoots. There is a strong correlation between nude shoots and paid shoots.

Jan 08 13 11:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J-PhotoArt
Posts: 358
San Francisco, California, US


Laura UnBound wrote:

unless what the photographer wants/needs is someone with experience. At which point you need to be able to show that you have experience worth paying for.

+1

Jan 08 13 11:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,272
Phoenix, Arizona, US


maybe because they can get high-quality nude images, and then they will get hired more often by other photographers or third-party clients.

maybe because they enjoy creating art.

or maybe just because they want to.
Jan 08 13 11:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DVP Photography
Posts: 2,852
Broomfield, Colorado, US


Dan K Photography wrote:

bullshit. The vast majority of paid shoots are nude shoots. There is a strong correlation between nude shoots and paid shoots.

Maybe in NY, in Colorado, no correlation.  Quality of the model is the most important consideration, not whether she gets nekkid.

Jan 08 13 11:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


OP - there may be other factors involved.
Jan 08 13 11:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Christinare
Posts: 116
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US


Jan 08 13 11:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CN STUDIO
Posts: 84
WEST BLOOMFIELD, Michigan, US


Because they want to. Plain and simple.
Jan 08 13 11:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Christinare wrote:
.

Christinare - just a word of warning; MM don't take kindly to 'unsolicited critique'. Critique can only be given in the Critique Forums.

Jan 08 13 11:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Christinare
Posts: 116
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US


Oops, sorry. Didn't think. I took it down.
Jan 08 13 11:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NorthMountain Photo
Posts: 24
Hazleton, Pennsylvania, US


Sorry stupid question, but isn't the way the will not work with photographer listing on the op's profile considered outing?
Jan 08 13 11:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 9,276
Seattle, Washington, US


SweetGirlyGirl wrote:
I've been getting paid to shoot nudes for 5 years, but now since so many models are willing to de robe for free, it's getting more difficult to continue finding work.

Many models are willing to de robe for free. But not very many have a kick butt portfolio/resume to show for. Get yourself up to the next notch, build a strong portfolio/resume. then you don't have to worry about those models until they catch up with you.

Jan 08 13 11:45 pm  Link  Quote 
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