I don't understand the difference in your reaction to the two shootings. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, you seem to be filled with glee that this lady was killed.
Both were unarmed at the time of their death.
Both were shot and killed.
In both shootings, a legally-owned pistol was used.
Both were innocent victims.
Neither was killed with an "assault weapon".
Neither gun had high-capacity magazines.
So what's the difference? Age? You wouldn't discriminate against someone over something like "age" would you?
Opinion: If only Trayvon Martin, was armed, it might have saved him.
SKPhoto wrote: So guns are efficient at killing.
We already knew that.
If it wasn't guns, it would have been his fists and then a locked garage with the car running.
or stabbed her. He obviously snapped and nothing in his mind was going to stop him from killing her. If he did not have a gun he would have done it some other way.
Domestic cases are so very different from public shooting rampages yet anti gun people keep wanting to tie the two together.
Mike Kelcher wrote: Opinion: If only Trayvon Martin, was armed, it might have saved him.
You're kidding right? Odds are he would have been crucified for using it, even if in self defense. Look at how people try to peg him as a no good thug looking to rob houses.
Hall Photo wrote: Which is the main reason that, whatever you think of guns being legal, for families to own them still is probably in general a bad idea.
Incorrect. What is a bad idea is for people with mental issues to have access to guns. Obvioulsy given this mans job history as a ex prison guard there most likley were some underlying mental issues. There was a reason he was not a prison guard anymore, hmmmmmmm. Not mentally able to handle such a job? Not everyone can handle the bullshit a prison guard has to. Takes some tough skin to be a prison guard in alot of our prisons.
Hmmm maybe we need to address domestic abuse more seriously? Tougher domestic abuse penalties, etc?
IMHO I would wager that 70% of all families that own guns do not have any issues concerning those guns. So hey we get it, because of the minority of idiots out there or those with mental issue it is a bad idea for families to own guns.
MN Photography wrote: There needs to be tough, uncompromising national standards for licensing private gun owners.
And that will not solve much at all. What we need is tougher penalties for crimes where a gun is used, better mental health treatment instead of giving these nutcases a pill and sending them on their way and so forth.
Gun control is simply a cop out from addressing the real issue concerning gun violence, a way of avoiding building more prisons, a way of avoiding stiffer penalities and so forth. All gun control will do is mask things.
Gun control such as tougher standards for licensing private gun owners will not do a damn thing because the issue is not the guns.
netmodel wrote: I read that you're much more likely to die of homicide, suicide, and accidents from guns than to own guns for self-dense. In other others, you're much more likely to end up being dead due to gun violence than use it for self-defense.
IMHO I think one is more likley to die in a car accident because of some drunk, someone texting or someone on their cell phone than one is likley to die from a gun incident.
Where is the outcry over texting, DUI, etc that there is over gun control?
God forbid we deal with peoples precious texting, drinking, etc however lets go after the gun owners instead when in reality more people die in bullshit car accidents that could have been avoided than they do by gun violence.
What is more disturbing than some gun toting idiot going into a school is the idiots on the road who are so distracted now a days that it is like playing Russian roulette when driving. Could this be the day some idiot kills your ass because they were texting, drunk, putting on make up, etc?
I worry more about getting behind the wheel of a car than I do about someone killing me with a gun but hey we get it, it is all about the guns even though the guns are not the issue.
You don't hear people screaming about banning cars now do you? Instead we hear people screaming about texting and driving, etc because hmmmm they have enough sense to know it is not the car that is the problem. Same with guns, the gun is not the problem.
Mike Kelcher
Posts: 11,629
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Andialu wrote: You're kidding right? Odds are he would have been crucified for using it, even if in self defense. Look at how people try to peg him as a no good thug looking to rob houses.
My comment was as serious as this one.
T wrote: Opinion: If only her children had guns, they could have saved her.
Mike Kelcher wrote: Opinion: If only Trayvon Martin, was armed, it might have saved him.
Andialu wrote: You're kidding right? Odds are he would have been crucified for using it, even if in self defense. Look at how people try to peg him as a no good thug looking to rob houses.
...better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.
Hall Photo
Posts: 12,331
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Micyl Sweeney wrote: Incorrect. What is a bad idea is for people with mental issues to have access to guns. Obvioulsy given this mans job history as a ex prison guard there most likley were some underlying mental issues. There was a reason he was not a prison guard anymore, hmmmmmmm. Not mentally able to handle such a job? Not everyone can handle the bullshit a prison guard has to. Takes some tough skin to be a prison guard in alot of our prisons.
Which would lead one to suspect that not being cut out for being a prison guard (for which the only "evidence" is that he changed jobs after eight years) would not itself be a sign of dangerous mental issues. Maybe he didn't like handling the bullshit a prison guard has to.
Micyl Sweeney wrote: Hmmm maybe we need to address domestic abuse more seriously?
That would be nice. Not a panacea, but there are multiple paths we can take to try to address gun violence simultaneously.
Micyl Sweeney wrote: IMHO I would wager that 70% of all families that own guns do not have any issues concerning those guns. So hey we get it, because of the minority of idiots out there or those with mental issue it is a bad idea for families to own guns.
I would wager that the percentage is even greater than that.
But the fact remains, the most likely to die from a gun in the home is the resident teen experiencing a bout of depression. And I doubt that the majority of crimes of passion involve mental illness.
Micyl Sweeney wrote: Incorrect. What is a bad idea is for people with mental issues to have access to guns. Obvioulsy given this mans job history as a ex prison guard there most likley were some underlying mental issues. There was a reason he was not a prison guard anymore, hmmmmmmm. Not mentally able to handle such a job? Not everyone can handle the bullshit a prison guard has to. Takes some tough skin to be a prison guard in alot of our prisons.
Maybe he was no longer a "prison guard" because he got a better job...
from the OP
her husband, a parole officer and former prison guard
netmodel wrote: I read that you're much more likely to die of homicide, suicide, and accidents from guns than to own guns for self-dense. In other others, you're much more likely to end up being dead due to gun violence than use it for self-defense.
Micyl Sweeney wrote: And that will not solve much at all. What we need is tougher penalties for crimes where a gun is used, better mental health treatment instead of giving these nutcases a pill and sending them on their way and so forth.
Gun control is simply a cop out from addressing the real issue concerning gun violence, a way of avoiding building more prisons, a way of avoiding stiffer penalities and so forth. All gun control will do is mask things.
Gun control such as tougher standards for licensing private gun owners will not do a damn thing because the issue is not the guns.
Part of a national licensing program should be serious mental health screening. There are loads of people out there with undiagnosed mental illnesses who have no trouble getting guns legally right now.
We already have a larger percentage of our population in prison than other first world countries. Threat of prison is not going to stop public shooters or people who snap and shoot other people in personal disputes.
What really needs to be done is to reverse the whole culture of gun violence and the concept that guns will solve problems that really don't even exist (see Alex Jones rants for examples). Making people earn the privilege to own a gun might make society take guns more seriously than it does now.
T
Posts: 53,533
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Andialu wrote:
You're kidding right? Odds are he would have been crucified for using it, even if in self defense. Look at how people try to peg him as a no good thug looking to rob houses.
T
Posts: 53,533
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Mike Kelcher wrote:
White guys???? Is everything for you a race issue?
Yeah...YOU and Tonic (white guys) made up the lie that I'm "gleeful" that the gun nut is murdered. I guess I could have said wingnuts or something. I wanted to be politically correct.
Mike Kelcher
Posts: 11,629
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
T wrote: Yeah...YOU and Tonic (white guys) made up the lie that I'm "gleeful" that the gun nut is murdered. I guess I could have said wingnuts or something. I wanted to be politically correct.
So you deny that there's any difference in your attitude toward the killing of Trayvon Martin and your attitude toward the killing of this soccer mom? Ummmm....OK. Why does the color of our skin matter?
T
Posts: 53,533
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Mike Kelcher wrote:
So you deny that there's any difference in your attitude toward the killing of this Trayvon Martin and your attitude toward the killing of this soccer mom? Ummmm....OK.
My thread has nothing to do with the late Trayvon Martin.
My thread is about a lady who toted a gun to soccer matches, grocery stores, even to her front yard....yet, she's dead from a gun shot wound. I find it ironic and strange. I thought of ALL people she would be safe from murderers.
Again, white guys in the soapbox make up shit and accuse me. I'm not going to defend what's in your imagination.
T, now you know how President Obama feels -- every day.
The fact is the lady was a gun-lover to the point where she took her gun to soccer games. I wonder what went through her mind when that first bullet struck her body?
Your detractors are, for the most part, challenged when it comes to responding to your posts. It is hard for a simple mind to consider the facts of the story when making a wild accusation will do.
I often wonder how they type with their finger stuck up their nose?
Yeah...YOU and Tonic (white guys) made up the lie that I'm "gleeful" that the gun nut is murdered. I guess I could have said wingnuts or something. I wanted to be politically correct.
Are you trying to out my skin color? Are you stalking me to try to find a pic of me in real life to learn what my skin hue might be?
Micyl Sweeney wrote: You don't hear people screaming about banning cars now do you? Instead we hear people screaming about texting and driving, etc because hmmmm they have enough sense to know it is not the car that is the problem. Same with guns, the gun is not the problem.
The difference though is that it's arguing that if you buy guns thinking you'll protect yourself, you are actually more likely to end up being the victim of gun violence than to use it for self-defense. We don't say that with cars.
That's why I am leery of anyone saying, "I gotta buy them to defend myself!" The best defense is to stay away from dangerous people and dangerous areas. Lock your house and secure your property well and you should be ok.
But honestly, we need armed people.. just not those crazy nuts.
Mike Kelcher
Posts: 11,629
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
netmodel wrote: The best defense is to stay away from dangerous people and dangerous areas. Lock your house and secure your property well and you should be ok.
Yes, we don't need guns. We also shouldn't send our kids to school and we shouldn't attend theaters, those places are dangerous and have dangerous people that sometimes "visit".
netmodel wrote: if you buy guns thinking you'll protect yourself, you are actually more likely to end up being the victim of gun violence than to use it for self-defense.
I disagree. If that were the case, since there are about 300+ million guns in the US and about the same number of people, we'd all be dead.
Daniels Light
Posts: 4,911
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
Mike Kelcher wrote:
netmodel wrote: The best defense is to stay away from dangerous people and dangerous areas. Lock your house and secure your property well and you should be ok.
Yes, we don't need guns. We also shouldn't send our kids to school and we shouldn't attend theaters, those places are dangerous and have dangerous people that sometimes "visit".
I disagree. If that were the case, since there are about 300+ million guns in the US and about the same number of people, we'd all be dead.
Logic fail.
NM did not say if you bought a gun, you would be a victim - he just said that you were more LIKELY to be a victim of gun violence - and statistically that's true.
It is foolish to state that every person in the US owns guns just because the number of guns equal the population. I know very few gun owners who just own one (and know one collector with a $200 million dollar, 3,000 gun collection).
I'm not against private ownership, but people really got to stop fooling themselves with this John Wayne attitude about guns. Just as his name was really Marion, guns are just as likely to be used as a tool for death in your own family as protecting them against violence.
If we don't start respecting that, we will continue to have kids taking parent's guns and shooting up schools.
Opinion: If only Trayvon Martin, was armed, it might have saved him.
Is she stop stuffing Subway's and Pizza Hut Specials into her pie hole, maybe she'd have better self esteem and wouldn't need to pack heat to make her feel whole.
As so often is spouted by the gun lobby and crowd, we need to address the underlying societal causes of America's runaway gun & violence problem.
An ENORMOUS number of gun enthusiasts have "problems" that just a little education, diet, and some love, might go a long way to curing.
Mike Kelcher
Posts: 11,629
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Daniels Light wrote: Logic fail.
NM did not say if you bought a gun, you would be a victim - he just said that you were more LIKELY to be a victim of gun violence - and statistically that's true.
Where did you find that statistic? Most likely, it included suicides, which skew the statistics. If someone wants to commit suicide, there's a lot of ways to do that, and the only victim is the nutcase who would rather be dead.
Daniels Light wrote: It is foolish to state that every person in the US owns guns just because the number of guns equal the population.
I agree...which is why I didn't say what you thought I said. Perhaps I didn't word it right. If guns were the problem, there's plenty to kill us all.
Daniels Light wrote: guns are just as likely to be used as a tool for death in your own family as protecting them against violence.
Is this your opinion, or do you have some "statistic"? Even if the statistic is 100% true and verifiable, it's kinda like saying that owning a boat increases the likelihood of drowning. That's probably true too, but nobody seems to want a ban on boats.
Daniels Light wrote: If we don't start respecting that, we will continue to have kids taking parent's guns and shooting up schools.
I dunno. Kids find a way to have sex, even in schools. They have no problem finding illegal drugs either. I'm fairly certain they can find guns too. However, you bring up an important issue...responsible gun ownership. Responsible gun owners have a duty and responsibility to secure their weapons so that they can't be accessed by unauthorized people....like mentally ill people, thieves, and kids. Had Nancy Lanza been a responsible gun owner and kept her guns secure from her mentally-ill kid, most of us would have never heard of Newtown CT.
We don't need another Brady Bill, we need a Nancy Lanza Bill that makes a gun owner as responsible as the shooter, if the gun is used in a crime.
Laura UnBound
Posts: 24,724
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
255 West wrote:
Is she stop stuffing Subway's and Pizza Hut Specials into her pie hole, maybe she'd have better self esteem and wouldn't need to pack heat to make her feel whole.
As so often is spouted by the gun lobby and crowd, we need to address the underlying societal causes of America's runaway gun & violence problem.
An ENORMOUS number of gun enthusiasts have "problems" that just a little education, diet, and some love, might go a long way to curing.
Now that we've established whos a nut on both sides of the argument...
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 17,059
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium
Micyl Sweeney wrote:
Considering the husband was an ex prison guard then there might have been some mental issues that the wife did not know about. She might have thought she was in a safe loving enviroment.
Prison guards deal with some bullshit that can affect their mental well being. People have a way of hiding their mental issues from their loved ones, co-workers, etc.
oh sure, there might have been an issue with the husband the wife didn't know about.
but if the husband was having mental problems due to stressful or traumatic situations at work, he shouldn't have a gun to begin with right? not something to be had by mentally unstable (as in: they could potentially snap) people
(but perhaps he was fine when he got the gun, and things just got worse... )
255 West wrote: Is she stop stuffing Subway's and Pizza Hut Specials into her pie hole, maybe she'd have better self esteem and wouldn't need to pack heat to make her feel whole.
As so often is spouted by the gun lobby and crowd, we need to address the underlying societal causes of America's runaway gun & violence problem.
An ENORMOUS number of gun enthusiasts have "problems" that just a little education, diet, and some love, might go a long way to curing.
You do realize that you are talking about the victim of the shooting, a dead person, right?
Yesterday, someone said...
The Signature Image wrote: Decent people mourned the dead...
255 West wrote: Is she stop stuffing Subway's and Pizza Hut Specials into her pie hole, maybe she'd have better self esteem and wouldn't need to pack heat to make her feel whole.
As so often is spouted by the gun lobby and crowd, we need to address the underlying societal causes of America's runaway gun & violence problem.
An ENORMOUS number of gun enthusiasts have "problems" that just a little education, diet, and some love, might go a long way to curing.
You do realize that you are talking about the victim of the shooting, a dead person, right?
Yesterday, someone said...
She had a gun, and isn't that point of walking around with your gun -- to defend one's self?
Well she had a gun, and was happy to take it to soccer games, nonetheless her husband blew her up.
T wrote: A car parked in the driveway bore a badge-shaped sticker that read "NRA law enforcement."
Curt at photoworks wrote: I think we all have to admit that this is funny.
No, it's tragic.
The tragedy is made even more acute in that the apparent shooter, her husband is a parole oficer, certainly an occupation in which one might hope for adequate psychological screening to prevent something like this. If nothing else, the Mom's carrying a loaded weapon to the kids' athletic events should have been a red flag that something was amiss there.
Probably neither tighter gun controls nor closer control on permits could have prevented this specific incident, in all likelihood, although better and more enforced testing of the people issued the permits might well have. Mom, at any rate, exhibited behavior that indicated that something was amiss here.
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