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Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


I'm trying to plan a shoot there. And the lottery for passes has me a bit stumped. I see tons of photos of the area. But the BLM says they only allow 20 people per day in the area. It's regulated by a lottery for permits. When making the application, and paying the fee to get into the lottery which guarantees you nothing but a chance, it asks how many are in your party. My wife and I want to go so I put 2. But I saw a group that had 8 listed. So is it 20 groups of a predetermined number instead of 20 people?  I figured I could call them and ask about it but when I called today it just rang off the hook. There are no permits available till May. All booked up now to April. The May permits go on the block on 2/1.

PS It's cheap to get into the lottery. $5 Then $7 per person per permit if you are successful. BUT..there are currently 4521 people Vying for the May permits.
Jan 09 13 09:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
WESTBY
Posts: 32
Los Angeles, California, US


most people go to antelope canyon(harder to shoot models there but they do have a separate "photographers tour" . Also, if you book far enough in advance you can by-pass the lottery at the wave
Jan 09 13 09:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


West By East Photo wrote:
most people go to antelope canyon(harder to shoot models there but they do have a separate "photographers tour" . Also, if you book far enough in advance you can by-pass the lottery at the wave

I thought 5 months WAS enough. Seems they only allow that much in advance on their website. I was wondering if someone who had been there knew how you could reserve a spot other ways.

I've been to Antelope canyon 5 times. Never with models. It's literally nut to butt in the summer time and in the winter no beams of light enter either set due to the winter sun's angle to the earth. All the photo tour does is give you an extra hour in the canyon. If you go right to the spot yourself and pay at the entrance it costs less and they are not strict on the time. If you tell them you want to spend 2 hours they come back to pick you up in 2 hours.

Jan 09 13 10:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Jewett
Posts: 2,428
al-Marsā, Tunis, Tunisia


Half of the permits are issued the morning of to random people.  I have a friend who just stays up there at a little hotel, and every morning he drives up and waits.  He says he gets one 75% of the time.
Jan 10 13 10:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alan H Bruce
Posts: 421
San Diego, California, US


I thought it was in Utah... I hiked Wire Pass and part of Buckskin Gulch (which are not the Wave, but are very cool), which is very close to there (same trailhead, I believe), in October.  The lottery for the Wave is a long-odds crapshoot.
Jan 10 13 10:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Alan H Bruce
Posts: 421
San Diego, California, US


West By East Photo wrote:
most people go to antelope canyon(harder to shoot models there but they do have a separate "photographers tour" . Also, if you book far enough in advance you can by-pass the lottery at the wave

At Lower Antelope in October, they had a 'no nudity' policy.  A lot of traffic in there, too.  There are jeep tours to harder to get to spots - more time and fewer people (and therefore, more expensive).  None of those were scheduled during the few days while I was in Page, but I'd wager that some of the jeep tours have a more relaxed policy.  You probably have to buy two seats, though.

Jan 10 13 10:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Robert Jewett
Posts: 2,428
al-Marsā, Tunis, Tunisia


No nudity at all.  If you do it, not only can they take your camera (tribal land), but the guide can get into serious trouble.

At least that's what I was told.  When I shot there, another photographer had just had his gear confiscated by the tribal police...
Jan 10 13 10:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


Robert Jewett wrote:
Half of the permits are issued the morning of to random people.  I have a friend who just stays up there at a little hotel, and every morning he drives up and waits.  He says he gets one 75% of the time.

According to the site half are given out "in advance"..I don't know how and that's the info I'm looking for. Then it goes on to say the other half is by lottery, which I'm in. The waiting at the office is for spots unclaimed. Then they get lottoed off. That's for the North Canyon where the wave is. Apparently there is a separate lottery for the south canyon where there is also some great shots. I'm not shooting models here, just nature.

Jan 11 13 12:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matthew Abbott
Posts: 6
Annapolis, Maryland, US


Although not quite as nice as The Wave if you go to the overlook area shown on the map linked below and then walk kind of North rather than to the actual overlook, there's some interesting formations.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=3 … 3&t=m&z=18

The spot I am referring to can be seen in the second to the last row here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/meabbott/s … 063634664/ - except, of course, for the houseboat. The actual overlook area can be seen on the last row of photos.
Jan 11 13 04:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KFM Designs
Posts: 685
Flagstaff, Arizona, US


Isn't the wave in UT.

Last time I checked anyways.

Luck of the draw.
Jan 11 13 06:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KFM Designs
Posts: 685
Flagstaff, Arizona, US


Robert Jewett wrote:
No nudity at all.  If you do it, not only can they take your camera (tribal land), but the guide can get into serious trouble.

At least that's what I was told.  When I shot there, another photographer had just had his gear confiscated by the tribal police...

A lot of my photography friends shoot there and they don't get in trouble for it.  I live in northern az

Jan 11 13 06:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Daniel Seybold
Posts: 85
Waterford, Michigan, US


The wave is a couple of hundred yards south of the border in AZ and you have to apply for permit in a BLM station in UT, ( thats part of the issues between UT BLM, they got the work and Az getting paid.

Online:
Anywho, there are 10 permits per day being available online (one person is asking for two spots and wins then two spots are gone, one person asking for 8 spots and wins 8 spots are gone ) they are very strict about those numbers I have seen in the Years that they turned or split up families because the ten spots very filled. In this case you might see only 19 or less people in there.

In person:
There is a lottery held every morning sharp 8:30-9 am (UTAH TIME!!!!!!!!!) where you can apply for 10 spots ( same people applying to hiking in rules as above mentioned) and only ten or less people will get a permit FOR THE NEXT DAY!!!!!!

I have done online and in person, I was unfortunate to show up on their record day for walk ins when they had 126 people playing the lottery for the next day.
Keep trying online it will be your best bet, I saw permits being returned for various reason....keep checking.
Jan 11 13 06:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gulf Coast Glamour
Posts: 493
Bradenton, Florida, US


Have I been there, Ck out my avitar.  Reading thru the responses I see your questions answered.  I've not been successful with the 4 months in advance lottery for the 1st ten spaces daily.  When you go to the Kanab BLM office you're up against how many others are trying as well.  The staff say there is no checking on un used or vacant permit spaces.  Their attitude is the fewer people going daily, much less even finding it means a little longer survival to a very fragile beautiful place. 
My 1st time I stopped by the BLM office in the afternoon to get information about the permit process the next day.  They still had space the next day so I really lucked out that time.  The next attempt there were too many people and I missed out in that drawing but got in ok the next days drawing.  Third time, the one with the model, was in April, there was snow on the ground over by Kanab but being sort of off season, no problem.  That morning started out cold but the afternoon hike out was t-shirt warm.
     They usually max out the 20 total people spaces daily.  All my 3 times I'll bet I never saw more than 4 or 5 all day each day.  I was out there again this last October, couldn't help it being the busiest time of the year but that's when we were traveling.  October is especially busy cause of it's peak fall Aspen color, and the Albuquerque hot air balloon fiesta is going on
too.  They moved the BLM office to Kanab I think to help the towns economy.  We stayed 3 nights there, 1 night in page during the 4 attempts.  When the office was next to the Paria river along the highway half way between Page & Kanab it wasn't very convenient.    Each morning there were between 30-50 people trying in the drawing.  My friend was sleeping in and didn't come along.  Who knows how many of those 30-50 had parts of their groups not even in attendance which they only have to be on the paperwork, not all present.
On that note, a caution !! If you are part of a group, let's say 8, there can only be one application, if there are more than 1 apps for the group you all get kicked out of the drawing.
They are serious, saw it happen.  So try for the in person drawings, off season during the colder time.  Summer, hey, it's desert hot and dangerous.  On those days hanging around the area doing other things I wouldn't want to visit the slot canyons.  Summer is thunderstorm time and people have been killed in those slot canyon flash floods.  Go with a flexible schedule, your chances will be better and it's more fun.  Good luck
Jan 11 13 07:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


Matthew Abbott wrote:
Although not quite as nice as The Wave if you go to the overlook area shown on the map linked below and then walk kind of North rather than to the actual overlook, there's some interesting formations.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=3 … 3&t=m&z=18

The spot I am referring to can be seen in the second to the last row here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/meabbott/s … 063634664/ - except, of course, for the houseboat. The actual overlook area can be seen on the last row of photos.

Thanks. I've been there and it is nice.

Jan 11 13 05:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


KFM Designs wrote:
Isn't the wave in UT.

Last time I checked anyways.

Luck of the draw.

Nope..you start in UT and walk into AZ. That's http://assets.modelmayhem.com/images/smilies/scary.pngenough to an old fart like me. LOL!

Jan 11 13 05:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


Gulf Coast Glamour wrote:
Have I been there, Ck out my avitar.  Reading thru the responses I see your questions answered.  I've not been successful with the 4 months in advance lottery for the 1st ten spaces daily.  When you go to the Kanab BLM office you're up against how many others are trying as well.  The staff say there is no checking on un used or vacant permit spaces.  Their attitude is the fewer people going daily, much less even finding it means a little longer survival to a very fragile beautiful place. 
My 1st time I stopped by the BLM office in the afternoon to get information about the permit process the next day.  They still had space the next day so I really lucked out that time.  The next attempt there were too many people and I missed out in that drawing but got in ok the next days drawing.  Third time, the one with the model, was in April, there was snow on the ground over by Kanab but being sort of off season, no problem.  That morning started out cold but the afternoon hike out was t-shirt warm.
     They usually max out the 20 total people spaces daily.  All my 3 times I'll bet I never saw more than 4 or 5 all day each day.  I was out there again this last October, couldn't help it being the busiest time of the year but that's when we were traveling.  October is especially busy cause of it's peak fall Aspen color, and the Albuquerque hot air balloon fiesta is going on
too.  They moved the BLM office to Kanab I think to help the towns economy.  We stayed 3 nights there, 1 night in page during the 4 attempts.  When the office was next to the Paria river along the highway half way between Page & Kanab it wasn't very convenient.    Each morning there were between 30-50 people trying in the drawing.  My friend was sleeping in and didn't come along.  Who knows how many of those 30-50 had parts of their groups not even in attendance which they only have to be on the paperwork, not all present.
On that note, a caution !! If you are part of a group, let's say 8, there can only be one application, if there are more than 1 apps for the group you all get kicked out of the drawing.
They are serious, saw it happen.  So try for the in person drawings, off season during the colder time.  Summer, hey, it's desert hot and dangerous.  On those days hanging around the area doing other things I wouldn't want to visit the slot canyons.  Summer is thunderstorm time and people have been killed in those slot canyon flash floods.  Go with a flexible schedule, your chances will be better and it's more fun.  Good luck

Hard to be flexible and wait a week for something that might or might not happen. Especially since hotels there are pricey for the crap you get. Page has a lot of nice places but all at Top of the crop Vegas prices. The Motel 6 there gets over $100/day. Now it IS a nice motel 6. I picked 3 days and if I get one I'll go. If not, I'll keep it on my fantasy list and just hit all the other wonderful areas out there in "the Grand Circle". Thanks!

Jan 11 13 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matthew Abbott
Posts: 6
Annapolis, Maryland, US


Have you considered any of the parks of Southern Utah? I've not been to any but I understand they're quite a sight.
Jan 11 13 05:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


Matthew Abbott wrote:
Have you considered any of the parks of Southern Utah? I've not been to any but I understand they're quite a sight.

There are all great. Been there MANY times. I've even written several articles on them for magazines and one for Adorama's EDU here http://www.adorama.com/alc/searchresult … %20circle. And yes., this trip is mostly to revisit them. All the way up to Arches/Canyonlands in Central UT. I got a D800 late last year and it's true that you want to shoot everything you can over again with it. So I figure a revisioning of my old haunts is in order. But I wanted to add a few new things along the way. But unfortunately, like the wave entrance problems, I've found out why I skipped them all theses years. Most are climbs (like the Subway in Zion) or 5 mile one way hikes like some of the slots in UT. I'm healthier than I was 5 years ago because of a surgery I had..but I'm still an out of shape 62 year old with Asthma and controlled Diabetes. So I'm not physically able to visit several of my dream spots.

Jan 11 13 06:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matthew Abbott
Posts: 6
Annapolis, Maryland, US


Very good info! I will keep those articles in mind for the next time I make a journey out to those parts. Thanks!
Jan 11 13 06:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


Matthew Abbott wrote:
Very good info! I will keep those articles in mind for the next time I make a journey out to those parts. Thanks!

When I ask for info I'm more than happy to share mine..and I've been shooting out here for a LONG time. LOL!

Jan 11 13 09:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KFM Designs
Posts: 685
Flagstaff, Arizona, US


R Michael Walker wrote:
Nope..you start in UT and walk into AZ. That's http://assets.modelmayhem.com/images/smilies/scary.pngenough to an old fart like me. LOL!

How is Costa Mesa, i was stationed at camp pendleton and use to frequent teh Mall there as a kid

Jan 11 13 10:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


KFM Designs wrote:

How is Costa Mesa, i was stationed at camp pendleton and use to frequent teh Mall there as a kid

The Mall is still here. Larger. More $$. CM is more built up than even 10 years ago. Aside for SC Plaza and Crystal court there is Metro Point and a few more on shopping developments on the Santa Ana side as well.

Jan 11 13 11:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gulf Coast Glamour
Posts: 493
Bradenton, Florida, US


Yes the hotels and dining services in Page are more expensive.  Kanab is cheaper, the BLM office is right there and you are close to lots of other sights for those days you might have to wait for repeat permit attempts.  Among the things we did in October while trying was the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, part of Zion NP,  Buckskin Gulch slot canyon, and Coral Pink sand dunes state park.  I understand its difficult to have a flexable schedule when traveling but some places llike the wave are worth it and with it becoming more popular its becoming necessary.
Jan 12 13 03:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rich Arnold Photography
Posts: 938
Los Angeles, California, US


Matthew Abbott wrote:
Have you considered any of the parks of Southern Utah? I've not been to any but I understand they're quite a sight.

I was just in Moab at Arches and Canyonlands. Awesome! D800 pix here: http://richardarnoldphotography.com/p214367061

Jan 12 13 10:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


Rich Arnold Photography wrote:

I was just in Moab at Arches and Canyonlands. Awesome! D800 pix here: http://richardarnoldphotography.com/p214367061

I've been there MANY times and am planning on going back this trip as well. Two of my favorite places!

Jan 12 13 11:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11,960
Costa Mesa, California, US


Gulf Coast Glamour wrote:
Yes the hotels and dining services in Page are more expensive.  Kanab is cheaper, the BLM office is right there and you are close to lots of other sights for those days you might have to wait for repeat permit attempts.  Among the things we did in October while trying was the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, part of Zion NP,  Buckskin Gulch slot canyon, and Coral Pink sand dunes state park.  I understand its difficult to have a flexable schedule when traveling but some places llike the wave are worth it and with it becoming more popular its becoming necessary.

The north rim is nice. Less people. Coral Pink Sand dunes (which are more orange than pink) is nice. I'm going back there again this trip as well. Zion is small and quick to see unless you are into extreme hiking and repelling which I am not. Except for hiking the narrows, which would have been hard in October, I really never got anything great there.

Jan 12 13 12:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matthew Abbott
Posts: 6
Annapolis, Maryland, US


Rich Arnold Photography wrote:

I was just in Moab at Arches and Canyonlands. Awesome! D800 pix here: http://richardarnoldphotography.com/p214367061

Beautiful stuff! I plan to make it out that way someday.

Jan 13 13 05:21 am  Link  Quote 
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