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1234last
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


... the kids you want.

I've been in a number of relationships with people who didn't want children. That factor, while not the only factor, was a big motivator in those relationships ending.

I want children. I've always wanted children. I love kids. I have a booming biological clock. But I've also always been afraid that I can't have them, and decided years ago that, if that is the case, I could still have a fulfilling life.

Now I am in a relationship with a man that cannot father children. We've been together for nearly a year. We live together. We are in love and happy. When we got together, I figured that I can't discriminate against a person for their biology. It could have been me, not him. Adoption isn't really on the table.

My mother is highly unhappy with this, because she knows me. But my mother isn't me, so whatever. But I mentioned this to a good friend, and she had the same sort of reaction: I've always talked about having kids. How can I change now?

I know this is something I must decide for myself. But I would like some insight or varying perspective.
Jan 10 13 02:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
S3R4PH1M
Posts: 522
Modesto, California, US


Have you both discussed artificial insemination?
Jan 10 13 02:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
DivaEroticus
Posts: 14,497
Fayetteville, Arkansas, US


If you're willing to say...why is adoption not on the table?
Jan 10 13 02:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,159
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Could you love a baby thats only half you, instead of half you half him?

Do you have a mentally stable male friend who would donate? (or if thats weird, use a stranger. Some people would greatly prefer one over the other)
Jan 10 13 02:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


S3R4PH1M  wrote:
Have you both discussed artificial insemination?

I'm actually against things like that. I think if a body, or at least my body, isn't meant to reproduce, then it's not good to force it.

Not a judgment for anyone else, but that's something that feels true for me.

Jan 10 13 02:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


DivaEroticus wrote:
If you're willing to say...why is adoption not on the table?

He doesn't really want kids. I know that it's something he considered with his ex-wife several years ago, but considering that he has lived his whole adult life knowing he can't have them, I feel that can't really hold his disinclination against him.

If he could have kids, but didn't want them, there would be an issue. As it is...

I guess there is also the question of: when would be financially stable enough to adopt?

Laura UnBound wrote:
Could you love a baby thats only half you, instead of half you half him?

Do you have a mentally stable male friend who would donate? (or if thats weird, use a stranger. Some people would greatly prefer one over the other)

See above. I'm not pro-artificial insemination for myself.

Jan 10 13 02:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
S3R4PH1M
Posts: 522
Modesto, California, US


immateria wrote:

I'm actually against things like that. I think if a body, or at least my body, isn't meant to reproduce, then it's not good to force it.

Not a judgment for anyone else, but that's something that feels true for me.

I'm confused - I thought the infertility was his medical condition, not yours?

Jan 10 13 02:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


S3R4PH1M  wrote:

I'm confused - I thought the infertility was his medical condition, not yours?

It is. If have biological children, I would want them to be conceived in a totally natural
(and, y'know, fun) way.

Jan 10 13 02:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


If you want kids and he doesn't that very well may be a big issue (him being able or not doesn't really matter)

Only you can decide if that's something you're willing to give up. And if you can give it up, still be truly happy, and not hold resentments.
Jan 10 13 02:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8,664
Abingdon, Illinois, US


Maybe you could try using a sperm donor. If the case is him and his sperm is not good then it has nothing to do with you and your ability to have or carry a child. But if you are going to spend that kind of money I would suggest marriage and a solid commitment before you jump into that. As well as make sure you guys both really want kids and see if he could love a child that is not genetically his.

If you don't want to do anything medically then I would look into fostering or adoption. But again a marriage commitment would need to come first to make sure neither of you is going to back out on this. Plus it makes it harder to get a child into your home if you are not married.
Jan 10 13 02:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lumatic
Posts: 13,667
Chicago, Illinois, US


That's a tough thing.  I guess the obvious thing to say is:  if you're enough in love with him at this point (and he with you) where you can see the two of you together in the long term, is he more important to you than having kids?

On the other hand, even if you have any doubts on that score, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to make a decision about it now either.  There's something to be said for enjoying what you have for a time.

And on the other hand again, what you decide now might also depend on when you think you might have to make a choice between the two.

I really don't know if I'm helping or not.  Life doesn't always follow our plans to the letter...  (((hug)))
Jan 10 13 02:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27,411
Jamaica, New York, US


Lisa Andresen wrote:
Maybe you could try using a sperm donor. If the case is him and his sperm is not good then it has nothing to do with you and your ability to have or carry a child. But if you are going to spend that kind of money I would suggest marriage and a solid commitment before you jump into that. As well as make sure you guys both really want kids and see if he could love a child that is not genetically his.

If you don't want to do anything medically then I would look into fostering or adoption. But again a marriage commitment would need to come first to make sure neither of you is going to back out on this. Plus it makes it harder to get a child into your home if you are not married.

Did you read the thread at all? She addressed all these options.

Jan 10 13 03:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


For all practical purposes, there are no children in my future if I was to stay with my boyfriend.


Lumatic wrote:
That's a tough thing.  I guess the obvious thing to say is:  if you're enough in love with him at this point (and he with you) where you can see the two of you together in the long term, is he more important to you than having kids?

On the other hand, even if you have any doubts on that score, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to make a decision about it now either.  There's something to be said for enjoying what you have for a time.

And on the other hand again, what you decide now might also depend on when you think you might have to make a choice between the two.

I really don't know if I'm helping or not.  Life doesn't always follow our plans to the letter...  (((hug)))

The way I think of it is that there has to be a way to have a happy fulfilling life without kids. People do it. If I set my mind to that score, I think it's possible. Before my mother ranted at me about it, and my friend raised her concerns, I didn't doubt that a happy future was attainable.

On the other hand, who can say what I will want as my ovaries dry up.

Jan 10 13 03:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Andresen
Posts: 8,664
Abingdon, Illinois, US


Nemi wrote:

Did you read the thread at all? She addressed all these options.

Yes she said that it was an issue with him medically not her. So the "I shouldn't push my body to reproduce" doesn't makes sense because she doesn't know that she can't have kids. He is the one with problem not her. And if he doesn't want kids that is fine but they should really talk about it and make sure while they are still young enough that time is slipping away so both parties need to be absolutely sure either way.

And I stand by that a marriage would need to happen before anything with kids happened.

Jan 10 13 03:05 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


immateria wrote:
It is. If have biological children, I would want them to be conceived in a totally natural
(and, y'know, fun) way.

I understand that is something you want... but there's also a huge taboo on that. 1 in 5 couples has trouble to get pregnant the natural way, loads of couples need help with it. This whole idea that getting pregnant is something that is supposed to happen in a natural, problemfree way is... well, outdated. Just wanted to say that.

In regards to your situation, I think it is something you will have to decide for yourself. I know for me, I could never not have children. I would find a way to have them, no matter what it took. Every fibre of my being wants to be a mom someday (sounds really dramatic, lol). If I was a man who couldn't have them but would be open to other options, that would be fine. Being with a man who doesn't want kids is not even an option for me. It's just that big of an issue, for me. You need to decide how big of an issue it is, for you.

good luck

PS this is not meant as an insult to people who chose not to have children. I have no doubt lots of people are perfectly happy without them and live great, fulfilling lives. I am sure I could live a wonderful life myself without kids too... but there would always be a void. that's just me personally though.

Jan 10 13 03:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
DivaEroticus
Posts: 14,497
Fayetteville, Arkansas, US


immateria wrote:
He doesn't really want kids. I know that it's something he considered with his ex-wife several years ago, but considering that he has lived his whole adult life knowing he can't have them, I feel that can't really hold his disinclination against him.

If he could have kids, but didn't want them, there would be an issue. As it is...

I understand, thank you.

Jan 10 13 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Calypso Moon
Posts: 848
Banning, California, US


I know lots of people who don't want to have kids, or have chosen not to.  Like you said, it doesn't preclude having a great life.

My only observation would be this -- you say you want kids, but you've sort of shut down every possible venue to get them.  That's fine, and totally your choice, but many people are willing to be a little flexible to get the things that they want, even if it doesn't happen in the way that they planned initially.  If I were you, I would leave your options open.  I highly doubt that loving a child has anything to do with how the child was conceived, or where the genetic material comes from.  Family is deeper than blood.
Jan 10 13 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


If you want to have kids, and you want to have them naturally with the person you're with, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to "discriminate against biology".
If you want to stay with this guy, want kids, want them to be yours and the person you're with's children, don't want medical intervention, and he can't have children, I really can't help you because that's impossible.

OF course there's a way to have a fulfilling life without kids. They're not required, obviously.

But if you really want children, you only get one try at this life thing, I would not suggest cutting corners.
You can do it any way you want, and you're the only one who can tell if it's the best way for YOU.
Jan 10 13 03:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Lisa Andresen wrote:

Yes she said that it was an issue with him medically not her. So the "I shouldn't push my body to reproduce" doesn't makes sense because she doesn't know that she can't have kids. He is the one with problem not her. And if he doesn't want kids that is fine but they should really talk about it and make sure while they are still young enough that time is slipping away so both parties need to be absolutely sure either way.

And I stand by that a marriage would need to happen before anything with kids happened.

I have addressed both the artificial insemination and adoption issue.

Jan 10 13 03:10 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


immateria wrote:

I have addressed both the artificial insemination and adoption issue.

BUT A MARRIAGE
tongue

Jan 10 13 03:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


Damianne wrote:
If you want to have kids, and you want to have them naturally with the person you're with, that's a perfectly legitimate reason to "discriminate against biology".
If you want to stay with this guy, want kids, want them to be yours and the person you're with's children, don't want medical intervention, and he can't have children, I really can't help you because that's impossible.

OF course there's a way to have a fulfilling life without kids. They're not required, obviously.

But if you really want children, you only get one try at this life thing, I would not suggest cutting corners.
You can do it any way you want, and you're the only one who can tell if it's the best way for YOU.

Completely agree with all of this.

Jan 10 13 03:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

I understand that is something you want... but there's also a huge taboo on that. 1 in 5 couples has trouble to get pregnant the natural way, loads of couples need help with it. This whole idea that getting pregnant is something that is supposed to happen in a natural, problemfree way is... well, outdated. Just wanted to say that.

In regards to your situation, I think it is something you will have to decide for yourself. I know for me, I could never not have children. I would find a way to have them, no matter what it took. Every fibre of my being wants to be a mom someday (sounds really dramatic, lol). If I was a man who couldn't have them but would be open to other options, that would be fine. Being with a man who doesn't want kids is not even an option for me. It's just that big of an issue, for me. You need to decide how big of an issue it is, for you.

good luck

PS this is not meant as an insult to people who chose not to have children. I have no doubt lots of people are perfectly happy without them and live great, fulfilling lives. I am sure I could live a wonderful life myself without kids too... but there would always be a void. that's just me personally though.

Yeah, I am very much like you. My though process took a pretty big hit when this relationship started. It was unexpected.


And I know my thinking is outmoded. I wouldn't advise it on anyone else. I just think that there are enough people in the world. If I can't get pregnant naturally, then adoption is something I would otherwise turn to.

However, I am 26 years old, and far from being in a place where I think I would be a viable adoption candidate even if it was something my partner wanted.

Jan 10 13 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,159
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Kids are certainly not a fix-all for making your life happy, and its good that youd at least like to try to lead an otherwise fulfilling life without them...

but I wouldnt be so hard on yourself about really wanting them. Its one of those big core values that you and your partner need to see eye to eye on for many many people. I personally dont know how much I do or dont want children, but I wouldnt consider being with someone who was 100% against it, just in case I get the bug one day and find out that I DO really want them.

Some people really want lots of things in their lives. Sure they CAN live without them, and probably reasonably happily, but that doesnt mean they HAVE to.

If you find that youre not as happy as youd like to be a few more years down the road...then what do you do? Will you wind up resenting the relationship you built with this guy?

This is much less about the part where he cant have them, more about that he doesnt want them regardless

Youre not the bad guy if youd rather be with someone who shares your wants in life. Its got zilch to do with whether or not his body "works" and if you can fault him for it, its his polar opposite WANT to not have kids.
Jan 10 13 03:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Russian Katarina
Posts: 1,413
London, England, United Kingdom


immateria wrote:

I have addressed both the artificial insemination and adoption issue.

Does that include artificial insemination of his sperm? Because that is a possibility in many cases and it would mean that the baby is 100 % his, genetically speaking. From a biological standpoint it's no different than a pregnancy through intercourse.

Jan 10 13 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Damianne wrote:

BUT A MARRIAGE
tongue

Heh. Yeah. I tried to ignore that part.

It is implied that our relationship is headed in the marriage direction, but that's neither here nor there.

Though I'm sure it would be a factor if adoption did come up.

Jan 10 13 03:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Russian Katarina wrote:

Does that include artificial insemination of his sperm? Because that is a possibility in many cases and it would mean that the baby is 100 % his, genetically speaking. From a biological standpoint it's no different than a pregnancy through intercourse.

There is no sperm.

Jan 10 13 03:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


You've painted yourself into a corner with only two options:

1) Give up on wanting kids and find some alternative to giving your life happiness and purpose. Career? Altruism?

2) Find a partner who's open to having kids.


My guess is that you're going to dismiss option 2.
Jan 10 13 03:19 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


immateria wrote:

Yeah, I am very much like you. My though process took a pretty big hit when this relationship started. It was unexpected.


And I know my thinking is outmoded. I wouldn't advise it on anyone else. I just think that there are enough people in the world. If I can't get pregnant naturally, then adoption is something I would otherwise turn to.

However, I am 26 years old, and far from being in a place where I think I would be a viable adoption candidate even if it was something my partner wanted.

I'm just saying what I'd do in my situation, because that's really all I can say, and hope maybe that helps you with yours. I want kids. If I can't have them naturally, I'd get help. if that doesn't work, I'd adopt. If that wasn't an option, for a reason I could really really not get past, I'd probably become a foster parent or something like that. I know it would be really difficult, but I would give it my all, to try and make a difference for a child (or a teenager, whatever), even if it was just one, even if it's small... But to give that "gift" to a child, that it is safe and loved, even if afterwards it would go on living his own life and I'd have to let go... that would be a fulfilling option for me, if none of the other options worked out.

I don't know about you...?

Jan 10 13 03:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

I'm just saying what I'd do in my situation, because that's really all I can say, and hope maybe that helps you with yours. I want kids. If I can't have them naturally, I'd get help. if that doesn't work, I'd adopt. If that wasn't an option, for a reason I could really really not get past, I'd probably become a foster parent or something like that. I know it would be really difficult, but I would give it my all, to try and make a difference for a child (or a teenager, whatever), even if it was just one, even if it's small... But to give that "gift" to a child, that it is safe and loved, even if afterwards it would go on living his own life and I'd have to let go... that would be a fulfilling option for me, if none of the other options worked out.

I don't know about you...?

I don't know about me either at this point.

Jan 10 13 03:21 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


immateria wrote:

Heh. Yeah. I tried to ignore that part.

It is implied that our relationship is headed in the marriage direction, but that's neither here nor there.

Though I'm sure it would be a factor if adoption did come up.

The syntax and repetition amused me.
REGARDLESS

This is actually a pretty good relationship problem to have, contextually. Implies you get along really well otherwise. I'm sure however you figure it out, it'll be the right thing for the two of you and not a hasty angry decision like most other problems can end up being solved with.

Silver lining!

Jan 10 13 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


immateria wrote:

I don't know about me either at this point.

sucks sad

I know it's cliché... but you still have time. what do you feel is the age where you really have to say "okay, decision time"?

Jan 10 13 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,289
Columbus, Ohio, US


If you change your mind to tailor it due to someone else.....you can about bet the farm you will regret it one day.
Jan 10 13 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Okay, folks, I am appreciating all the responses.

I think a big part of the problem is that I am dealing with a highly unstable future. I'm not in a place in my life to have children, so I can't at all say what will or will not work for me when I am in a better place in my life.
Jan 10 13 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,841
Portland, Oregon, US


My only comment is that I want you to be happy whatever you do  smile
Jan 10 13 03:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Damianne wrote:

The syntax and repetition amused me.
REGARDLESS

This is actually a pretty good relationship problem to have, contextually. Implies you get along really well otherwise. I'm sure however you figure it out, it'll be the right thing for the two of you and not a hasty angry decision like most other problems can end up being solved with.

Silver lining!

Haha. That's definitely true. My relationship isn't perfect, but it's a very happy, loving one. The kids things is one of the two main obstacles, and frankly, the other obstacle will surface first.

But I have a home with someone I am complete comfortable with for the first time in my life. I can see us building a future in many way, of us growing together.

Jan 10 13 03:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:

sucks sad

I know it's cliché... but you still have time. what do you feel is the age where you really have to say "okay, decision time"?

How much time, though? I know we're not living in the middle ages, and that my fertile years aren't over, but it's not like I can stave this through process off indefinitely.

Jan 10 13 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
immateria
Posts: 15,446
Brooklyn, New York, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
If you change your mind to tailor it due to someone else.....you can about bet the farm you will regret it one day.

I'm less concerned about changing a mind than altering his genetic make-up.

Jan 10 13 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Damon Banner
Posts: 85,269
Hayward, California, US


S3R4PH1M  wrote:
Have you both discussed artificial insemination?

+1

Jan 10 13 03:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Damon Banner
Posts: 85,269
Hayward, California, US


Lumatic wrote:
That's a tough thing.  I guess the obvious thing to say is:  if you're enough in love with him at this point (and he with you) where you can see the two of you together in the long term, is he more important to you than having kids?

+1

Jan 10 13 03:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Damon Banner
Posts: 85,269
Hayward, California, US


immateria wrote:
But I have a home with someone I am complete comfortable with for the first time in my life. I can see us building a future in many way, of us growing together.

So why let other concerns possibly ruin that?

Jan 10 13 03:34 pm  Link  Quote 
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