login info join!
This thread was locked on 2013-01-11 16:25:18. Reason: Done
Forums > General Industry > How do I post negative feedback about a model.? Search   Reply
123last
Photographer
Simon Fairclough
Posts: 12
London, England, United Kingdom


I booked and paid for a studio today and the model,
Flaked, how can I post negative feedback here..? I don't see a way of doing it am I missing something.?
Thanks for your help.
Jan 11 13 03:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
intense_puppy
Posts: 864
Brighton, England, United Kingdom


You can't. Best you can do is put a "do not recommend" on your profile.
Also - delete this thread before the mods do it for you (this thread constitutes "outing" I think and is not allowed).
Jan 11 13 03:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1,626
Eureka, California, US


You don't. You "edit" your post to remove any mention of the particular model before you get knocked for "outing" someone.

Then you grow up.
Jan 11 13 03:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,444
Paris, Île-de-France, France


You can't. Very strange but MM rules do not allow it. You cannot set links to out people or even mention their name either. I looked at her profile though and I am surprised at the tags left there.


I feel bad that this happens, as you had engaged in production studio etc and you get a no show.
Jan 11 13 04:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Genevieve Devine
Posts: 48
Saint Paul, Minnesota, US


You have commented on multiple pictures of her with the caption "Picture of a flake!!".

.......Are you serious?
Jan 11 13 04:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Simon Fairclough
Posts: 12
London, England, United Kingdom


Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
You don't. You "edit" your post to remove any mention of the particular model before you get knocked for "outing" someone.

Then you grow up.

Ok done that..

Still quite cross though, as there wasn't even a hint of an I'm sorry I'm ill or other excuse..
Yes I know it's happened to everyone, I just wanted to see if I could leave a neg feed back on here..

Jan 11 13 04:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KOLMANS STUDIOS
Posts: 370
Lüderitz, Karas, Namibia


Lesson to learn.Always make sure you have a plan B,when it comes to models and where you must book and pay upfront,lets say,like now,in your case,the studio.
Jan 11 13 04:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,870
Albany, New York, US


intense_puppy wrote:
You can't. Best you can do is put a "do not recommend" on your profile.
Also - delete this thread before the mods do it for you (this thread constitutes "outing" I think and is not allowed).

Unless MM has changed their policy, the thread alone does not constitute an "outing". What would make it an "outing" is if the OP named names publicly here in the forums.

Jan 11 13 05:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Simon Fairclough
Posts: 12
London, England, United Kingdom


KOLMANS STUDIOS wrote:
Lesson to learn.Always make sure you have a plan B,when it comes to models and where you must book and pay upfront,lets say,like now,in your case,the studio.

Yes if only there was a plan B, fortunately this has only happened to me twice in three years of being on this site.
I think its about time the site had this function, most other sites do. And it works because I've not had a flake from Purple Port, its a shame because I shoot more fashion (as a level) and this site is better for fashion type models..

Anyway I'm not bitchin and moaning, shit happens, I just wanted to find out if I could leave neg feedback. Thanks for your answers

Jan 11 13 05:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Neil Snape wrote:
Very strange but MM rules do not allow it.

for good reason..
I usually agree with everything i see you post, except for now...

1. Think about the culture of this community: Amateurs, typically bitching about other  amateurs, for behaving like amateurs...

2. Who is going to administer/oversee a "he said/she said" function of this website? it's ripe for abuse.

besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png

Jan 11 13 05:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Farenell Photography wrote:

Unless MM has changed their policy, the thread alone does not constitute an "outing". What would make it an "outing" is if the OP named names publicly here in the forums.

If I'm reading this thread correctly, I think in the OP the poster linked or named the model.  Then, after a few posters commented on not doing so, they edited the post removing her name/port.

Jan 11 13 05:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


I just don't understand why this is such a problem. How is it that people schedule a time to meet / work with someone and just don't show up?

Why, why bother to schedule the time if you ave no intention on going?

Fortunately for me I own my studio also fortunately for me it's not my primary income. But recently I've taken days off of work or cleared my schedule to shoot a particular person, who I know, three times now and they never show. They keep rescheduling with me but there's always a reason / excuse. I go up, open the studio, get the heat on, get set up etc etc and then the texts start.

I don't understand what's sooooo difficult about showing up for an appointment that YOU made. Either you want to do this or you don't

I feel bad for you especially since you laid out some cash to make it happen.

S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

I think in this case he and many others have the right to complain. If i lay out cash for someone else and they don't come through, I'm going to complain too.

Jan 11 13 05:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GoldRoseMedia
Posts: 2,934
NORTH BRUNSWICK, New Jersey, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

This case goes beyond disrespect, though. The OP is left holding the bill for a studio he booked and could not use, so there is a financial cost involved.

Jan 11 13 05:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...
GoldRoseMedia wrote:
This case goes beyond disrespect, though. The OP is left holding the bill for a studio he booked and could not use, so there is a financial cost involved.

I think this says more about the OP then it does about a flake internet model.
expecting an amateur online model, to act like professional model is an exercise in futility.

not having a viable plan B, when you outlay cash, is just silly.

a wasted day and wasted cash is not the models fault, it's the photographer's.

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png

Jan 11 13 06:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
I think this says more about the OP then it does about a flake internet model.
expecting an amateur online model, to act like professional model is an exercise in futility.

not having a viable plan B, when you outlay cash, is just silly.

a wasted day and wasted cash is not the models fault, it's the photographer's.

Interesting take on the situation but is it really that unreasonable to expect people to do what they say they're going to do that we have to go through life with a plan B?

When I call a meeting with a client, they show up
When a client calls me for a job, I show up
When you have a flight scheduled, you show up
When you have to be to work at 9am, you show up
You have a hair appointment, you show up
You have a dentist appointment, you show up
Why the hell is photography so much different that people just blow it off without regard for the others involved. And why should we, as photographers have to "expect" that to the point where we need a backup plan

The model not showing up is her fault. The photographer taking a chance with his money I guess is a lesson learned but if he didn't spend the cash then the should could never happen.

I guess the thing to do is to get a signed contract stating that if they don't show they're 100% liable for any and all expenditures that were spent on their behalf. Talk to lawyers, make a iron clad contract and don't' spend a dime without it being signed.

Jan 11 13 07:21 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MB Jen B
Posts: 2,867
Clarksville, Tennessee, US


Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
...
I guess the thing to do is to get a signed contract stating that if they don't show they're 100% liable for any and all expenditures that were spent on their behalf. Talk to lawyers, make a iron clad contract and don't' spend a dime without it being signed.

Or the other thing to do, once you sit back and process it, is to grow up. I had to do this too.

I had to do this after showing up on time, ready, dressed and made up and opening my schedule to be at a shoot and doing the shoot and not receiving a single shot!!.

This happened 2x with a photographer who I'd shot with twice before and two other times with different photographers. The photographer who I shot with a total of four times and only received one photo each from our first two shoots said his life was getting really busy and also...I realized that he was pretty selfish with his trade shoots and hadn't given pictures to another model I know too! One other photographer was new and really just busy and the last one...just a jerk.

Lesson learned...griping or processing and venting is one thing but, when you get good advice to get over it and learn that it is a risk and to get better at who you select to share your time with then it is adult to move on.
Jen

Jan 11 13 07:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,300
Atlanta, Georgia, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
besides, there's nothing that, makes you look more insignificant or amateurish, then complaining publicly that some internet model disrespected you...

+1 Just move on

if its an important job, project, or creative I use an agency model;  Simple as that and no problems

Jan 11 13 07:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2,513
Hickory, North Carolina, US


Sucks.

If I'm doing something that puts me out - Not going to work, travelling, putting up money, meeting somewhere - I make it super clear that I'm doing that and confirm, reconfirm and reconfirm that the model is going to be there. I explain it's very important because (I booked a place and paid for it). Then I ALSO explain that I understand life happens, and if you have to cancel because something comes up that's okay - But I need to know, it's only respectful.

I don't book/rent/travel or do anything extensive for amateur models, only professional ones.  If I were doing so for an amateur or non-fulltime model, I would probably schedule two to be on the safe side.
Jan 11 13 07:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


The one thing I'd say is I rented a studio only one time.  I hired two models, paid both, and they both showed up.  Also, what I did (especially with the more amatuer one, I hired one more pro, one more novice), was plead with her to notify me as soon as she could if she were cancelling, no-showing, or changing her mind, as I was paying pretty good money for the studio, regardless if she came & got paid or not. And it would give me possible time to find another girl. To be honest I think that helped, as she wrote back saying no she would never do that & was committed 100% etc.. blah blah blah.

It worked.  Worth doing I suppose.
Jan 11 13 07:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


KonstantKarma wrote:
Sucks.

If I'm doing something that puts me out - Not going to work, travelling, putting up money, meeting somewhere - I make it super clear that I'm doing that and confirm, reconfirm and reconfirm that the model is going to be there. I explain it's very important because (I booked a place and paid for it). Then I ALSO explain that I understand life happens, and if you have to cancel because something comes up that's okay - But I need to know, it's only respectful.

I don't book/rent/travel or do anything extensive for amateur models, only professional ones.  If I were doing so for an amateur or non-fulltime model, I would probably schedule two to be on the safe side.

Sounds like we think very similar!

Jan 11 13 07:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
730372
Posts: 1,952
Abbeville, Alabama, US


GoldRoseMedia wrote:

This case goes beyond disrespect, though. The OP is left holding the bill for a studio he booked and could not use, so there is a financial cost involved.

The OP has a commercial studio of his own - I guess there must have been something special about the intended shoot if he had to book a competing studio.

Jan 11 13 07:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


OK so you shot with a few photographer and received few or no photos form the shoot multiple times. That sucks BUT at least you were both there, you worked and if nothing good came of the shoot then so be it. I guess sometimes that happens?

If the photographer is being selfish and just not giving you the good then shame on him

I wish people would stop say grow up. How does venting about getting screwed indicate age or level of maturity. I don't care if you're 6 or 60, if you go to buy or trade something and you don't get what you agreed on, you're going to complain.

Now, the manner in which you choose to do say may be an indication of maturity or professionalism but I'm pretty sure if you order a car with certain options, pay for it and the car shows up with no options you're going to complain, maybe even take legal action. Why is this different?

It's a business deal and if one party provides what they say they're going to while the other doesn't, yeah you have a right to be pissed and vent and complain regardless of your age.

Is there anything you can do, no, so the correct answer is to suck it up and move on, but growing up has nothing to do with it.
Jan 11 13 07:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich II
Posts: 703
San Diego, California, US


Said it before and I'll say it again-

Only work with M/M models that are recommended to you
by someone you actually know.

That way when they flake you can still go kick your friend's ass.

big_smile
Jan 11 13 07:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
Interesting take on the situation but is it really that unreasonable to expect people to do what they say they're going to do that we have to go through life with a plan B?

Doing business on MM is a lot like doing business on an elementary school playground.
that's why i don't conduct business here. (the spaces between the letters in my name is more about hiding, then being cool).

If you have an important job, deal with professionals, in professional environments.
MM doesn't even resemble, not one little bit, a professional environment.

if your "plan A" includes MM, you most definitely need a "plan B".

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png

Jan 11 13 08:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Little Miss Toxic
Posts: 2
Perth, Western Australia, Australia


Just for a bit of different perspective, I've had the same issue with multiple photographers who will cancel after I've had hair and makeup done, where they book the shoot and then cancel at the last minute for no other reason then that they don't feel like it. It's not purely a one sided thing, happens to people on both sides of the camera unfortunately.

At the end of the day this isnt what I do for a career so I dont mind outlaying the cash and blah blah blah but as someone who works full time as a chef (65+ hours a week), runs my own business and then does the modelling and stuff on the side I get annoyed when stuff like that happens as it's not only cost me money but time as well.
Jan 11 13 08:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TRPn Pics
Posts: 10,431
Andrews, North Carolina, US


Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

Interesting take on the situation but is it really that unreasonable to expect people to do what they say they're going to do that we have to go through life with a plan B?

When I call a meeting with a client, they show up
When a client calls me for a job, I show up
When you have a flight scheduled, you show up
When you have to be to work at 9am, you show up
You have a hair appointment, you show up
You have a dentist appointment, you show up
Why the hell is photography so much different that people just blow it off without regard for the others involved. And why should we, as photographers have to "expect" that to the point where we need a backup plan

The model not showing up is her fault. The photographer taking a chance with his money I guess is a lesson learned but if he didn't spend the cash then the should could never happen.

I guess the thing to do is to get a signed contract stating that if they don't show they're 100% liable for any and all expenditures that were spent on their behalf. Talk to lawyers, make a iron clad contract and don't' spend a dime without it being signed.

There was a day when a handshake and a mans word were plausible for agreements, contracts and the like and ones reputation and or integrity was preceded by his dealings. In the age of the internet and online networking those days are long gone mostly because it's not a personal experience where two people are face to face.

Is there a remedy for flakes where one has expense like studio rental, attire or time, certainly, it's called an alternative or backup plan. Getting a beginner model to agree to be held legally liable for expenses if they don't show or flake, probably not a good idea but to each their own, give it a try and see where it goes. Good luck.

Jan 11 13 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,889
Portland, Oregon, US


How do I post negative feedback about a model.?

Here's the problem with posting negative feedback:  I don't know you, I don't have any reason to believe or disbelieve you, and I'm not hearing both sides of the story.  Therefore, if you tell me that Suzy flaked on you, I don't know whether that's true, but I do know that you are vindictively trying to damage Suzy's reputation.  Therefore, posting negative feedback is worse for you than for your target.

You can post a "Not Recommended" list on your profile, but see above -- having such a list is worse for you than for the people you list.  Further, if your list becomes long, that says that many models don't respect your for some reason.  For that reason, I don't recommend a "Not Recommended" list.

But there are things you can do:

1)  You don't have to work with that model ever again.

2)  If you are asked for a reference, you can tell your story.

3)  You can make the effort to get to know your local photographers.  Once you've established relationships with them, you can share references with them, and you can tell them your story.  The difference, once these local photographers get to know you, they have more reason to trust you than someone like me, who doesn't know you well enough to trust you.

4)  Learn how to screen models more effectively, and work only with the more reliable ones.  See #3, above -- share references.

Good luck.
Jan 11 13 08:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GoodVendettaPhotography
Posts: 3
Raleigh, North Carolina, US


Welcome to Model Mayhem!
Jan 11 13 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
3934
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US


In the real world photographers require a non-refundable deposit to book you on their calendar. You don't show up you lose your deposit. You don't want to make a deposit, you don't get booked. And those dates are first come first served until you make that deposit.

On MM or with friends, I do this for fun so I lower my expectations and requirements with the understanding that doing work can be risky. And so I don't outlay cash to setup up something unless I really know I can count on the person through previous work.

I've had friends flake on me or reschedule quite a few times. However, if you are a professional non-MM client who wants me for portraits, to cover an event, or for a wedding, you will be putting down some cash and it will be paid in full in advance.

As for here, I've actually had a pretty good experience with people but I don't get picky with people either. For me, this is just practice to work on ways to run my real business and refine my workflow. The side benefit is I get to meet some pretty cool people.
Jan 11 13 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


Rather than quoting everyone responses I'll just comment.

OK I agree, if you have a professional job where the talent is crucial, sure, hire a professional model. I see that MM isn't a professional environment and I see the lack of personal connection. The sad part of that is, it's only like that because of the people we're talking about.

In my case the person I spoke about was someone I see three times a week or more and all the deals were made in person.

But I still find it, not disturbing but more upsetting that people can't just do what they say they'll do. If you're just starting out, that's even more of a reason to be on the up and up and put your best foot forward. Pissing people off right out of the gate will surely destroy any chance of a furthering your presence in the industry.

Not to defend the photographer but at least if you pay to get your hair done and the shoot get's cancelled, at least you got your hair done and you can say fuck it, I'll go out on the town or something. Equally as bad but at least you got something tangible for your expenses.

Deposits are a good idea. That may be the answer to the whole thing.
Jan 11 13 08:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
3934
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US


I don't think you will get anyone here to do the whole deposit thing. Just what I've observed after being here a while. Which is why I don't bother with it.

But I also keep in mind that there is no way I will be hiring people from here without having worked with them before and knowing that they are reliable.

This is a unique environment with plenty of pros and cons to how it works. In general I find it to be more fun than not so I roll with it.
Jan 11 13 08:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


Sand Angel Photography wrote:
I don't think you will get anyone here to do the whole deposit thing. Just what I've observed after being here a while. Which is why I don't bother with it.

But I also keep in mind that there is no way I will be hiring people from here without having worked with them before and knowing that they are reliable.

This is a unique environment with plenty of pros and cons to how it works. In general I find it to be more fun than not so I roll with it.

Good attitude and I have to say, unfortunately I agree. I've only ever been to the point of scheduling with one MM model who backed out before we ever got it on the calendar.

Hopefully the others I'm planning to work with don't end up the same way.

Jan 11 13 08:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


S W I N S K E Y wrote:

Doing business on MM is a lot like doing business on an elementary school playground.
that's why i don't conduct business here. (the spaces between the letters in my name is more about hiding, then being cool).

If you have an important job, deal with professionals, in professional environments.
MM doesn't even resemble, not one little bit, a professional environment.

if your "plan A" includes MM, you most definitely need a "plan B".

Don't you think that's kind of disrespectful to a lot of models (never mind anybody else) that are on MM, who's sole income is generated from modelling, that act professionally, always turn up, on time and ready to shoot?

OP - go read all the other threads on 'Flaking', folks here are only repeating what's been stated a thousand and one times before.

Jan 11 13 09:01 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Gina Dee
Posts: 298
BRONX, New York, US


My first real modeling gig was due to a model that flaked. I spent a lot of time shadowing a photographer, being his gopher and to pick up tips from the MUAs he used to use.

We drove out to Jones Beach at 5:30am last August and the model just didn't show up. No call, no nothing. He asked if I felt like shooting. It was a gorgeous sunny morning and I was curious so I did it. But I remember that disgusted look on his face when it was apparent he'd got up that early and drove to Long Island from Brooklyn for nothing.

I still don't consider myself "a model" but I have more respect for photographer's time to take gigs I know I won't show up for. I still don't get that.
Jan 11 13 09:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,300
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Gina, those are the modes who won't be around long.  Its not like you can always see them coming until someone gets burned.

The models that try tend to do much better.  Heck they don't even have to try very hard to rise about that bar.
Jan 11 13 09:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
3934
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Drew Smith Photography wrote:
Don't you think that's kind of disrespectful to a lot of models (never mind anybody else) that are on MM, who's sole income is generated from modelling, that act professionally, always turn up, on time and ready to shoot?

There are a TON of very professional people here. Everyone is here for different reasons. However, the user id's are now over 2,900,000 so there are a ton of people who aren't doing much. Weeding through to find the real people can be a bit challenging. I would think one would have better luck hiring someone cold from an agency if they needed someone urgently. But there are a lot of really cool people here so the work to find them is worth it.

Jan 11 13 09:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,217
Salem, Oregon, US


network with local photographers and gossip away about the models.

you can put a "do not recommend - #XXXX" in your profile but will that do more harm than good?

photographers flake on models, too. sometimes by not getting them images. TF is really iffy sometimes. even paid models/photographers flake sometimes. the internet modeling world has dandruff.

i think the best thing is to find a core group of reliable models to work with (i have one who has never flaked in hundreds of shoots). ask local photographers.
Jan 11 13 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Skydancer Photos
Posts: 21,905
Santa Cruz, California, US


Moderator Note!
Assuming you have actually worked with the other member, or at least had a confirmed booking, you are allowed to post (on your profile ONLY) something to the effect of "Not Recommended: MM#xxxxxx, Joe Blow." That's it. You cannot post details, reasons, etc. If members contact you about that person, you may share more details.
Jan 11 13 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Internally.
Jan 11 13 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


I am the owner of a company, I hire you to perform a task, I pay ALL the bills, even your compensation, + my heating electric, gas, taxes, rent etc ...

You no call no show? YOU'RE FIRED AND OUTTED ...

WHY?

Why would I wish that kind of behavior on my fellow business persons?
Jan 11 13 09:23 am  Link  Quote 
123last   Search   Reply



main | browse | casting/travel | forums | shout box | help | advertising | contests | share | join the mayhem

more modelmayhem on: | | | edu

©2006-2014 ModelMayhem.com. All Rights Reserved.
MODEL MAYHEM is a registered trademark.
Toggle Worksafe Mode: Off | On
Terms | Privacy | Careers