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Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 1,700
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


Models, if you contact a photographer because you want to shoot with him/her, and he/she declines, FOR ANY REASON, do not get angry, snobby, pissed off, prissy, bitchy, whiny, and/or, but is not limited to, acting like a complete and utter diva.

(the same can be said to photographers, but that's another thread)

Also, just because you're willing and gracious enough to be willing to have your photo in the photographer's portfolio, does NOT mean you are entitled to a TF shoot. If you don't have the right look, or the right hair, or the right body type, don't have the right ATTITUDE, the photographer can say, "No". You want TF shoots? Prove to me you are worth the time and effort I will put into your shoot.

I'll be completely frank; if you can't improve my port, I'll expect you to improve my wallet. I will do the same.
Jan 11 13 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,975
Austin, Texas, US


I will never understand the theory behind ranting in the model forum.

Also it's not allowed.


This belongs in OT.



The answer to every rant: welcome to the internet, this does not apply to most people here, most of us already know this.
Jan 11 13 08:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,406
Salem, Oregon, US


supposedly this isn't a dating site but sometimes people's responses seem more like a dating reaction than a photo shoot reaction. i proposed TF to one paid model who had said she was "open to collaboration" and she went DIVA on me. fortunately that's the only time i've gotten attitude like that. usually they just ignore me.
Jan 11 13 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sand Angel Photography
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Francisco Castro wrote:
but that's another thread

More like 50,000 other threads. Couldn't find one of those to add to? lol.

Jan 11 13 08:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Optix
Posts: 225
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Thank you for using an applicable title.
If all rant threads acknowledged that they are just that: rants and/or opinions, then others would be more sympathetic.

I hope you feel better after letting off some steam, but you and everyone else knows that any sort of rules do not apply in a medium, which is open to unvetted "professionals" that are hiding under a cloak of anonimity.
Jan 11 13 09:05 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Aww, did someone get butt-hurt because you declined to shoot with them?

That's too bad.

Most of us are used to saying "no" and dealing with the backlash from the amateur community.    You seem new to it.    It will get easier.

Francisco Castro wrote:
I'll be completely frank; if you can't improve my port, I'll expect you to improve my wallet. I will do the same.

Hopefully they weren't replying to your casting call for TF*! wink

Jan 11 13 09:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 1,700
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


model emily  wrote:
Aww, did someone get butt-hurt because you declined to shoot with them?

That's too bad.

Most of us are used to saying "no" and dealing with the backlash from the amateur community.    You seem new to it.    It will get easier.


Hopefully they weren't replying to your casting call for TF*! wink

No. No one was responding to a casting I posted... last casting I posted was years ago.

I accept the reality that sometimes, if I want a hassle free shoot with someone who knows what they're doing, someone who can act professionally, I will have to shell out some cash. It's a cost I gladly bear to get the exact shot I want.

As to who it was, without revealing identities, it was a model who has been a member since 2010, who just got engaged and now wants engagement photos of her and her fiance'. She "offered me the privilege" of shooting her and her fiance' and take my port to a whole new level.

I declined, simply stating that I do not do senior portraits, event photography, or engagement photos. My port reflects the kinds of photographs that I want to shoot.

That's when she got all huffy and prissy.

Jan 11 13 09:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
T A Y L O R
Posts: 2,977
Austin, Texas, US


model emily  wrote:
Aww, did someone get butt-hurt because you declined to shoot with them?

That's too bad.

Most of us are used to saying "no" and dealing with the backlash from the amateur community.    You seem new to it.    It will get easier.

Hopefully they weren't replying to your casting call for TF*! wink

Haha, +100. This.

Jan 11 13 09:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Lily Darling
Posts: 1,299
Lansing, Michigan, US


Francisco Castro wrote:

No. No one was responding to a casting I posted... last casting I posted was years ago.

I accept the reality that sometimes, if I want a hassle free shoot with someone who knows what they're doing, someone who can act professionally, I will have to shell out some cash. It's a cost I gladly bear to get the exact shot I want.

As to who it was, without revealing identities, it was a model who has been a member since 2010, who just got engaged and now wants engagement photos of her and her fiance'. She "offered me the privilege" of shooting her and her fiance' and take my port to a whole new level.

I declined, simply stating that I do not do senior portraits, event photography, or engagement photos. My port reflects the kinds of photographs that I want to shoot.

That's when she got all huffy and prissy.

I don't see why she would have gotten her panties in a bunch over that response, it doesn't sound like you were rude or anything. Idk, I just don't understand people getting mad because a someone doesn't want to work with them, what's the point in getting all butthurt? Just move on to the next!

Jan 11 13 09:55 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Lily Darling wrote:
I just don't understand people getting mad because a someone doesn't want to work with them, what's the point in getting all butthurt?

Well in this case it's because the internet is full of "models" now who use MM to try to get shit for free.  They think because they're a "model" that means they don't have to pay for personal stuff like this. 

They also know that *someone* will eventually say yes, and they'll get what they want.

They piss and moan when they hear "no" because 1) they're not real models, 2) they need to continue to ask around, and 3) it worries and aggravates them that they may actually have to open their checkbooks if they want something like this.

Jan 11 13 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Francisco Castro
Posts: 1,700
Cincinnati, Ohio, US


model emily  wrote:
Well in this case it's because the internet is full of "models" now who use MM to try to get shit for free.  They think because they're a "model" that means they don't have to pay for personal stuff like this. 

... it worries and aggravates them that they may actually have to open their checkbooks if they want something like this.

Baby photos, and senior photos. I get a lot of requests for TF shoots for those. It's always phrased in such a way as to make it seem like they're doing me the favor because I don't have it in my port and it will just add to my port. There is a reason it's not in my port and it's NOT for a lack of opportunities. (I have taken baby photos of the children of my friends, and have some senior portraits and family portraits of friends. It's a personal project between friends so I don't include it in my port.)

95% of the time, when I decline, it's not a problem. Some politely say, "Thank you." and move on. Some don't bother with a response, and I'm okay with that.

It's those 5% who feel that just because they have a MM account, it automatically makes them a model and are entitled to the perks real professional models get. Those are the ones that give models a bad name.

Jan 11 13 10:45 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Cynthia Serrano
Posts: 12,466
Newark, New Jersey, US


model emily  wrote:

Well in this case it's because the internet is full of "models" now who use MM to try to get shit for free.  They think because they're a "model" that means they don't have to pay for personal stuff like this. 

They also know that *someone* will eventually say yes, and they'll get what they want.

They piss and moan when they hear "no" because 1) they're not real models, 2) they need to continue to ask around, and 3) it worries and aggravates them that they may actually have to open their checkbooks if they want something like this.

This ^

Jan 11 13 10:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,406
Salem, Oregon, US


i'll do some free shoots with my regulars (usually family stuff). but it's in proportion to how much we work together and how well they are doing. good, reliable models are hard to find and worth rewarding.

Francisco Castro wrote:
It's those 5% who feel that just because they have a MM account, it automatically makes them a model and are entitled to the perks real professional models get. Those are the ones that give models a bad name.

Jan 11 13 10:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,025
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Francisco Castro wrote:
95% of the time, when I decline, it's not a problem. Some politely say, "Thank you." and move on. Some don't bother with a response, and I'm okay with that.

It's those 5% who feel that just because they have a MM account, it automatically makes them a model and are entitled to the perks real professional models get. Those are the ones that give models a bad name.

Well thanks for bitching at 100% of us models for something only 5% of the models you deal with do.

Jan 11 13 10:55 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,975
Austin, Texas, US


model emily  wrote:

Well in this case it's because the internet is full of "models" now who use MM to try to get shit for free.  They think because they're a "model" that means they don't have to pay for personal stuff like this. 

They also know that *someone* will eventually say yes, and they'll get what they want.

They piss and moan when they hear "no" because 1) they're not real models, 2) they need to continue to ask around, and 3) it worries and aggravates them that they may actually have to open their checkbooks if they want something like this.

luckily there are plenty of "photographers" to help them out

Jan 11 13 10:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1,674
Los Angeles, California, US


model emily  wrote:

Well in this case it's because the internet is full of "models" now who use MM to try to get shit for free.  They think because they're a "model" that means they don't have to pay for personal stuff like this. 

They also know that *someone* will eventually say yes, and they'll get what they want.

They piss and moan when they hear "no" because 1) they're not real models, 2) they need to continue to ask around, and 3) it worries and aggravates them that they may actually have to open their checkbooks if they want something like this.

Yep.

Jan 11 13 11:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-The Dave-
Posts: 8,626
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Moderator Note!
Rant, moved to OT
Jan 11 13 11:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ImageCRAFTbyAleks
Posts: 30
Albany, New York, US


I never understand why this is a source of aggrevation for any party as it all comes down to being a professionally consensual collaboration where all individuals agree to the terms. If any party does not agree to the terms, the gig doesn't occur or a compromise may be reached instead.

For me, my approach and professional intent dictates remuneration guidelines. For instance, I don't do art for myself... to exhibit, sell, or experiment with an inner need to express a concept. My work is focused on hopefully creating results that will provide the talent with opportunities to make money elsewhere,... where the "art" is then created. (Advertising, gallery work, etc...) So, unless I'm doing an increasingly rare TF, I get paid. The logic is simple. When the model goes to produce a comp card, unless they run one off their computer printer where they still have to pay for ink or paper, they pay for the production service. I'm part of that service that went toward assembling that comp card. Because I provide mentoring, coaching, and professional guidance, I tend to work with breaking talent vs. established. I usually also wind up providing the initial essentials: i.e. headshot, body, professional, etc. This is no different than a person paying for courses to earn the credentials to enter a career to then get paid for having made an investment in themselves.

If a shoot also delivers a picture that winds up getting sold to a third party... stock, etc... I have a clause in my release extending the model a right to a cut... and vice versa. The percentage favors the individual who made the sale: photographer or model. To me, that's fair. There's a trust factor that one party may welch, but please... there's enough to agonize about in the world.

When I am approached by a model who offers their services for a fee, I don't get all bunched up... LOL. I decline politely and take some time to share what I've shared here. I've yet to have a problem... (Now that I've just baited MM crazies... please start the line at the left side of this screen and wear comfortable shoes. It's going to be a wait...) smile

In the meantime, let's not be sweating out the quirks... It's a new year. Let's churn out some amazing pics and earn some money somewhere along the line to make it worth everyone's while. smile
Jan 11 13 12:05 pm  Link  Quote 
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