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Photographer
Rick Dupuis Photography
Posts: 6,822
Truro, Nova Scotia, Canada


Is her name Moss or Gisele?
Jan 11 13 12:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7,616
Monterey, California, US


No, I would not accept those terms...unless of course, she was Megan Fox! tongue
Jan 11 13 12:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
MainePaintah
Posts: 1,712
Saco, Maine, US


Rachel Reilly wrote:
No no no no no no no no no no!!!!!!

Mind if I put another No to your list?

You are PAYING her and she WANTS things her way? There are professional, beautiful models here on MM, hire one that knows how things work.

Jan 11 13 12:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,482
Muncie, Indiana, US


The only thing reasonable about her demands was her rate. She has big brass ones to even ask you the other two. They are YOUR images, not hers.
Jan 11 13 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jason Combs Photography
Posts: 636
Vicksburg, Mississippi, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

I give my models low res version of all photos...it's called a proof CD and they are PLASTERED with the word "proof".  They know not to post or print these.

For a TF shoot, I'd have no problem with demand number 3...so far, I'm ALWAYS more critical of the images than my models and if there's one they don't like...I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it either.  But for a paid shoot...she'd just have to pound sand.

Jan 11 13 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


NEXT!!





Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Jan 11 13 01:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carlos Ignacio M
Posts: 21
Houston, Texas, US


Find someone else. But, this is now an experience for you to address before you schedule a shoot. Make sure that you get a model release, all the time. This is a very subjective profession and you should always address that.
Jan 11 13 01:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Louis Li Photography
Posts: 120
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Next...........
Jan 11 13 01:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan OMell
Posts: 1,335
Charlotte, North Carolina, US


in the balance between "great look" and "control freak" no greatness can possibly overcome the quoted amount of freakness 3smile.

I would pass. Even if you fulfilled absolutely all her conditions she can still find a way to sue you.

Does she look like East-European models, after all? Is she 18 y.o.? Ballerina, dancer, amazing actress?
Jan 11 13 01:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Amul La La
Posts: 805
Plymouth, England, United Kingdom


Yes..!!!!!!!!















I'd say No no and NO again.
Jan 11 13 01:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,138
Portland, Oregon, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

No, probably not.  I note that folks here tend not to articulate "why" they say no.  I'll try:

1)  In most normal transactions, the contract is completed as soon as services and/or compensation has been exchanged.  This "agreement" (in particular, the third clause) extends the contract & the relationship indefinitely.

2)  Although simple sounding at first thought, this troublesome clause is difficult to define fully.  For example...
...  How long does the model have "approval rights"; do these rights expire after
     some amount of time, and if so, how long?
...  What constitutes an appropriate criteria for the model to deny approval?
...  What happens if the model moves and doesn't give the photographer her
     new contact information?
...  What happens if the photographer asks for approval and doesn't hear back?
...  Can the model retroactively disapprove an image once it's been posted?
...  If the model dies, do her heirs inherit her approval rights?
...  How are disputes resolved?
...  Can the model assign her approval rights to a third party?
...  What is the penalty if the photographer posts/sells an image without approval?
I could go on, but you get the idea.  This is not as simple as it would appear.

3)  In my experience, lots of people think they can write legally binding contracts, but very few can.  I would never sign a contract / agreement not reviewed by a lawyer.  Thus, any such agreement would be costly for me to sign.

So, like I said, probably not.

Jan 11 13 01:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan OMell
Posts: 1,335
Charlotte, North Carolina, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
1)  In most normal transactions, the contract is completed as soon as services and/or compensation has been exchanged.  This "agreement" (in particular, the third clause) extends the contract & the relationship indefinitely.

2)  Although simple sounding at first thought, this troublesome clause is difficult to define fully.  For example...
...  How long does the model have "approval rights"; do these rights expire after
     some amount of time, and if so, how long?
...  What constitutes an appropriate criteria for the model to deny approval?
...  What happens if the model moves and doesn't give the photographer her
     new contact information?
...  What happens if the photographer asks for approval and doesn't hear back?
...  Can the model retroactively disapprove an image once it's been posted?
...  If the model dies, do her heirs inherit her approval rights?
...  How are disputes resolved?
...  Can the model assign her approval rights to a third party?
...  What is the penalty if the photographer posts/sells an image without approval?
I could go on, but you get the idea.  This is not as simple as it would appear.

3)  In my experience, lots of people think they can write legally binding contracts, but very few can.  I would never sign a contract / agreement not reviewed by a lawyer.  Thus, any such agreement would be costly for me to sign.

+1000 absolutely!

Jan 11 13 01:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Salo
Posts: 8,191
Olney, Maryland, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

This is on the low side so I'm assuming that she wants a mix of money and pics for payment.  Nothing wrong with that.

But ... I would not give her all images and I would not give her the ability to approve each image.  This is not normal.  Find another model to work with.

Jan 11 13 01:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Guss W
Posts: 10,588
Clearwater, Florida, US


I assume if you could easily find an alternative, you would not have bothered posting.

I'm a softie.  Charlotte is still the kind of place where a girl has to be careful about her reputation.  If she were an NYC person, she would be in NYC.  Assuming she is indeed perfect for the job, I'd talk with her and try to see exactly what she was afraid of.  Did she have a bad experience somewhere?  Is there something in your portfolio that scares her?  Can she make a list of specifics to avoid?  Did the other photographers get all they wanted?  Could you show her the screen images every few minutes to get instant approval or do an instant re-take?  Would she be willing to take a deduction in pay for images not approved?

Of course if they are a dime a dozen... Next!
Jan 11 13 01:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 6,101
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Move on to the next transaction.


Quickly.


.
Jan 11 13 01:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Optix
Posts: 225
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

Are you hiring the model, or is she hiring you?

I appreciate artistic input as much as the next guy, but if your contract contradicts your release form, then why bother paying her? As a matter of fact, why shoot at all?

I am not discounting the model's ability to edit ("edit as in selecting images from a set),  but what you describe is a recipé for disaster! (or at least a lot of wasted time).

Jan 11 13 01:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Optix
Posts: 225
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
No, probably not.  I note that folks here tend not to articulate "why" they say no.  I'll try:

1)  In most normal transactions, the contract is completed as soon as services and/or compensation has been exchanged.  This "agreement" (in particular, the third clause) extends the contract & the relationship indefinitely.

2)  Although simple sounding at first thought, this troublesome clause is difficult to define fully.  For example...
...  How long does the model have "approval rights"; do these rights expire after
     some amount of time, and if so, how long?
...  What constitutes an appropriate criteria for the model to deny approval?
...  What happens if the model moves and doesn't give the photographer her
     new contact information?
...  What happens if the photographer asks for approval and doesn't hear back?
...  Can the model retroactively disapprove an image once it's been posted?
...  If the model dies, do her heirs inherit her approval rights?
...  How are disputes resolved?
...  Can the model assign her approval rights to a third party?
...  What is the penalty if the photographer posts/sells an image without approval?
I could go on, but you get the idea.  This is not as simple as it would appear.

3)  In my experience, lots of people think they can write legally binding contracts, but very few can.  I would never sign a contract / agreement not reviewed by a lawyer.  Thus, any such agreement would be costly for me to sign.

So, like I said, probably not.

Although I agree with a lot of what you say, I do so only because the questions would need to be addressed before any agreement/contract is signed.

Hopefully all of the issues are defined in the contract.

Regarding signing anything? Other than a check, I don't see why the photographer should be signing anything for the model, unless the photographer is being hired for his/her services to the model, in which case you are a "work for hire" and should be compensated handsomely for your skilled services.

Jan 11 13 02:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jhono Bashian
Posts: 2,432
Cleveland, Ohio, US


I wouldn't communicate back with her either.
I know its a mood point but she didn't even mention in her conditions about signing a model release.   hehehe.....
Jan 11 13 02:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Optix
Posts: 225
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Rick Dupuis Photography wrote:
Is her name Moss or Gisele?

Peat Moss and Giselle "Smith."
big_smile

Jan 11 13 02:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Renato Alberto
Posts: 864
San Francisco, California, US


Rick Dupuis Photography wrote:
Is her name Moss or Gisele?

I would venrture to say that those words would never come out of the mouths of professional models like Moss or Gisele.....smile

Jan 11 13 02:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,376
Dallas, Texas, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

Everything in this life is a negotiation.

If the model is worth, say - $75/hour - then $100/3 hours, plus her 2 conditions is likely a bargain.

If the model is only worth $30/hour, then it's probably not a good deal for you.

Remember, nothing is set in stone.  I'd shoot Gisele Bündchen for that deal, but there are many models I wouldn't shoot under those conditions.  Ask yourself if the overall transaction would be worth it to you.  Don't just get hung up on "...but if I take the photos, they're MINE..."  What's the old saying "Cutting off your nose to spite your face"?

Jan 11 13 02:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
deletedxxx
Posts: 149
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


deleted, changed my mind. Not enough info really.
What does she normally charge?. Is the OP someone she would work with TF?
Jan 11 13 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Draper
Posts: 87
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada


No No No!!!
Jan 11 13 02:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marciofs
Posts: 1,952
Freiburg, Baden-Württemberg, Germany


Wow man. You dont need to come back to this topic to read the answers. Just contact her and go shoot!

V V V V V

Emily Smiles wrote:
Heck no!

I'm in Columbia, SC, just a 2 hour drive at most. I would shoot with you!

Seriously.
Contact me.

Jan 11 13 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Melodye Joy
Posts: 542
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

As a model, I disagree with requesting payment AND all the images. I'm happy with 6+ edits, and I'm happy to give my opinion on what should be edited but I think YOU should be the final decision maker.

This is after-all, a collaboration and I am being compensated in cash form.

Just my thoughts, but everyone is different.

Jan 11 13 02:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Stehr
Posts: 219
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

It seems like this is something solved through communication and negotiation. One can ask for all sorts but where are you two comfortably willing to settle? If you are not comfortable with the final offer walk.

Someone already spoke about "moral" rights to a photo. You should research that a little though I doubt that is what she is thinking about.

I have been involved in processes where several people have had the right to kill any image. The more money involved, the more hassles. Controlling one's image is valid consideration. Though I think in this case another poster got it right, she should be paying you.

Jan 11 13 02:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art Silva
Posts: 9,193
Santa Barbara, California, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

Your art, your concept, your copyright. You pay her asking rates for modeling for your creation... She is not the boss of you!

It seams she is trying to take control of YOUR project, and get paid for it... F that!

Post your work as you please.

If she doesn't understand this, then she has a lot to learn about artists rights and is not worth the headache.

Jan 11 13 05:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Works Photography
Posts: 2,890
Orlando, Florida, US


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8497/8371190135_66df48f192.jpg
Jan 11 13 06:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MichaelClements
Posts: 1,739
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


She really doesn't have a bloody clue.
Jan 11 13 06:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

There are plenty of shoots I give photo approval on. I've done it for models who wanted to remain anonymous, or with a physical feature they wanted to hide.

Even when I'm not giving photo approval, they usually see every shot I might consider.

I've asked models to double check galleries too.

It's not a big deal.

Jan 11 13 06:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DraganSutic
Posts: 304
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


You are paying and she's making these demands? As others have said .. just pass on it .. the drama you avoid will be worth 100X the cost difference in hiring another model.
Jan 11 13 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,927
Santa Ana, California, US


Silly model. Pass.
Jan 11 13 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MartyG uk
Posts: 8
Johnstone, Scotland, United Kingdom


Your legal fees after the shoot are going to kill you-you would be better asking Moss to shoot at twice her normal rate and retire on the sale of those images.
Jan 11 13 07:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Top Gun Digital
Posts: 1,226
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

Her conditions are total BS.  Most models that do paid shoots don't expect any images at all.  The last condition of approving images before you post them is completely ridiculous.  If she doesn't like any of your work you won't be able to use it for anything and you will have paid her for nothing.  Find yourself another model right away.

Jan 11 13 07:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,490
Houston, Texas, US


Amani Images wrote:
I got in touch with this model that has a great look and fits right into the concept I have. She is experienced and I know other togs that have worked with her.
She contacted me back with conditions to shoot:
- $100 for 3 hours
- she gets small res versions of ALL photos
- she gets to approve every edited image before I post it anywhere online

Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate? Have you come across this before and did you go ahead and shoot?

I only have an issue with the third item.

I give models the opportunity to select images, but I reserve the right to reject any of their selections in case if flaws and make additional selections of my own.

Jan 11 13 07:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14,651
Seminole, Florida, US


Amani Images wrote:
Its that last one that I am not sure about. Is this how more experienced models operate?

Hell no they don't, experienced models know that won't fly.

Your shoot. Your concept. Your money. Means your rules...

Jan 11 13 08:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GCobb Photography
Posts: 15,891
Southaven, Mississippi, US


I'd just reply with "thank you for playing" and leave it at that.
Jan 11 13 08:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Magnum O Photography
Posts: 57
New York, New York, US


It's been said enough here, but I'm chiming in with 'no way' to help reinforce how completely 'no way' this one is.
Jan 11 13 08:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
CSDewitt Photo
Posts: 608
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Okay,

She's paying you $100 for 3 hours... is that correct?

If not, she's is work product and GETS NOTHING, unless you decide to give her something....

And under those conditions... Not only "No", but "Hell No"

Think I'm an ECHO, from all of the other responses....

Just tell her, "Thanks, but no Thanks" and move on...
Jan 11 13 08:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KA Style
Posts: 1,583
Syracuse, New York, US


GreatMomentsPhotography wrote:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8497/8371190135_66df48f192.jpg

LMAO!





I would do whatever for Eva Mendes though. big_smile

Jan 11 13 09:13 pm  Link  Quote 
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