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Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Has anyone ever found out they were being paid less than someone else for the same job?


Wanted some MM opinions on this situation!

Worked a job for a volleyball company a few months ago with my friend. Volleyball shirts, no alcohol, on the same activities, etc.
So we got emails to be on it again and we asked to be on the same shift again so we could travel together, etc.

We didn't get the briefs till last night (shift was today).... they were going to make us work promoting alcohol brands (and failed to tell us this) and then were paying him more than me (also failed to mention this). When I messaged them they were like 'yes, that is correct, different pay' and when I asked why they were getting paid more they said that alcohol brand involves more work. If there was training for that brand or it was all male I could kind of understand. hmm


So,
Have you guys ever found out you were being paid less? and for the same job as someone else?
Opinions on this situation welcome also as I do not usually work promo and am a noob lol



(received an apology just now. We weren't meant to read each others briefs and find out about different pay apparently!)


EDIT: Also, if I'd taken the original position offered of being a girl in a bikini I would've been paid more per hour than all the guys working! hmm
Jan 11 13 03:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cosplay Creatives
Posts: 10,714
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica


Yeah, and upon finding out after promotion to the position that I already had 4 years job experience in, I quit and walked off the job and never looked back.
Jan 11 13 03:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,012
Portland, Oregon, US


misszara wrote:
EDIT: Also, if I'd taken the original position offered of being a girl in a bikini I would've been paid more per hour than all the guys working! hmm

Well, at least that part makes sense!!

Jan 11 13 03:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Gryph wrote:
Yeah, and upon finding out after promotion to the position that I already had 4 years job experience in, I quit and walked off the job and never looked back.

yikes

Good on you though!! smile

Jan 11 13 03:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


DougBPhoto wrote:

Well, at least that part makes sense!!

haha, maybe they did it to spite me because I turned down the bikini role! lol

Jan 11 13 03:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,012
Portland, Oregon, US


misszara wrote:

haha, maybe they did it to spite me because I turned down the bikini role! lol

Could be, I can see anybody being disappointed if you declined.  tongue

Looking at the situation overall, I would think that comparable attire for the same task should be paid the same.

However, if the availability of models makes it more difficult to attract men to work as promo models, and they need to pay more as a result, that does make some sense as well, as unfair as that is.

In a normal office-type job where gender is irrelevant, there should not be such inequalities, but in a promotional role where the point of employment is to attract a certain demographic, it seems logical they need to pay whatever the market requires to get the appropriate people for those positions.

Not sure if that makes any sense or has any relevance.

Jan 11 13 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


DougBPhoto wrote:

Could be, I can see anybody being disappointed if you declined.  tongue

Looking at the situation overall, I would think that comparable attire for the same task should be paid the same.

However, if the availability of models makes it more difficult to attract men to work as promo models, and they need to pay more as a result, that does make some sense as well, as unfair as that is.

In a normal office-type job where gender is irrelevant, there should not be such inequalities, but in a promotional role where the point of employment is to attract a certain demographic, it seems logical they need to pay whatever the market requires to get the appropriate people for those positions.

Not sure if that makes any sense or has any relevance.

That's what I thought as well! I messaged her and asked if the other brand was males only? But she said there was one girl in there! So I feel as though I have been unfairly judged.

It has complete relevance, I just don't understand promo lol

It's so unfair and they tried to hide the pay amounts and didn't tell us we'd be promoting alcohol! I work with kids, I don't want photos of me promoting alcohol to be up everywhere! I dont even drink lol

Jan 11 13 03:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digitoxin
Posts: 13,308
Houston, Texas, US


Wait....
A male model was paid more than a female model for the same job?

Shocking!

Every example I know about is the other way around.

Would you be posting if it were?

You are a freelancer.  Negotiate the rate you want.  Period.  If you get it, great.  If not, you won't work that day.  Easy.
Jan 11 13 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,012
Portland, Oregon, US


misszara wrote:
That's what I thought as well! I messaged her and asked if the other brand was males only? But she said there was one girl in there! So I feel as though I have been unfairly judged.

It has complete relevance, I just don't understand promo lol

It's so unfair and they tried to hide the pay amounts and didn't tell us we'd be promoting alcohol! I work with kids, I don't want photos of me promoting alcohol to be up everywhere! I dont even drink lol

I don't blame you for being disturbed by it on all the levels you mentioned.

Lots of respect to you for staying true to yourself (not as if that comes as any surprise though.)

Jan 11 13 03:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Digitoxin wrote:
Wait....
A male model was paid more than a female model for the same job?

Shocking!

Every example I know about is the other way around.

Would you be posting if it were?

You are a freelancer.  Negotiate the rate you want.  Period.  If you get it, great.  If not, you won't work.  Easy.

It wasn't a modelling job tongue It was a promo job smile
And no no, males and females promoting one brand were being paid more than males and females promoting another brand, but they didn't tell anyone this (and didnt expect us to read each others' briefs and find out)

If he was getting paid less than me I wouldn't have attended the shift either, purely because I don't think people should be lied to and work the same job but be paid less than others.

I told them this and said I hope they understood why I wouldn't be turning up anymore. smile

This is why I rarely work promo lol

Jan 11 13 03:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


DougBPhoto wrote:

I don't blame you for being disturbed by it on all the levels you mentioned.

Lots of respect to you for staying true to yourself (not as if that comes as any surprise though.)

I felt really bad about not attending, but I also felt I'd been lied to and judged and that they were trying to rip off hard working people sad

And thankyou so much, that is so kind! It was a tough decision, but I don't want to promote something that I don't believe in and don't want to be associated with. Don't want the kids, parents and people who help with my studies to see me promoting alcohol lol

Jan 11 13 03:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
orias
Posts: 4,840
Tampa, Florida, US


I forgot who said it,  but this is very true

you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. 

i do a lot of group shooting for events and the like and its rare that everyone is paid the same

I understand if the girl with more experience or a bigger fanbase or who is willing to show more gets more... makes sense...

but i had a shoot one time with me and another girl (who flaked) so the photog had to book someone else last minute so he didn't have to cancel on me and ended up paying twice as much for a last minute lady.   That was kinda annoying since it was like punishment as i was prepared, went through the lengthy planning stuff, etc.
Jan 11 13 04:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digitoxin
Posts: 13,308
Houston, Texas, US


misszara wrote:
It wasn't a modelling job tongue It was a promo job smile
And no no, males and females promoting one brand were being paid more than males and females promoting another brand, but they didn't tell anyone this (and didnt expect us to read each others' briefs and find out)

If he was getting paid less than me I wouldn't have attended the shift either, purely because I don't think people should be lied to and work the same job but be paid less than others.

I told them this and said I hope they understood why I wouldn't be turning up anymore. smile

This is why I rarely work promo lol

So, if this was you instead of Kate, you would not have worked the gig because the male model (doing the same job) was paid less than you?

http://fashiongonerogue.com/model/kate-moss/

Jan 11 13 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,396
Vineland, New Jersey, US


As the service manager of a Honda motorcycle dealer, I found out I was the lowest paid person in the place.  This includes the guy who went around emptying trash cans.  When I tried talking to the general manager about it, he wouldn't hear anything along the lines ... then told me that if I didn't start getting along with the parts manager (who was impossible for everyone to get along with, including him sometimes), he would fire me.

  To me, that said he was going to fire me because there was no way I was going to be able to get along with someone who didn't want to be gotten along with ... so I told him I was leaving in 2 weeks and would write it up for him later.  He told me that I couldn't quit and if I tried, he'd do bodily harm to me ... so I changed it and said I quit right that second.  I left.

  A lot of people said I shouldn't have done that, but these are people not involved in the situation.  They don't get yelled at for doing what one is told to do, not doing what one is told to do, doing things that make sense when there is no one around to ask and for not doing anything when not given a direct order.  I even got yelled at for selling a motorcycle (they got almost $2,000 in gross profit for it, too).
Jan 11 13 04:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


orias wrote:
I forgot who said it,  but this is very true

you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate. 

i do a lot of group shooting for events and the like and its rare that everyone is paid the same

I understand if the girl with more experience or a bigger fanbase or who is willing to show more gets more... makes sense...

but i had a shoot one time with me and another girl (who flaked) so the photog had to book someone else last minute so he didn't have to cancel on me and ended up paying twice as much for a last minute lady.   That was kinda annoying since it was like punishment as i was prepared, went through the lengthy planning stuff, etc.

Totally agree!

Jan 11 13 04:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Digitoxin wrote:
So, if this was you instead of Kate, you would not have worked the gig because the male model (doing the same job) was paid less than you?

http://fashiongonerogue.com/model/kate-moss/

"I understand if the girl with more experience or a bigger fanbase or who is willing to show more gets more... makes sense... " I think this quote from Orias fits my situation better!

It wasn't a modelling gig, it was a promo one where we were brand ambassadors and no-one was an international model lol
The difference between the Dean Johnson thing and this is that in this job we all had the same experience, were working the same shifts and were not told about the different pay.
Dean Johnson probably has more experience than the other male models, for them posing with her may boost their careers and they've probably been informed (or just guessed) Dean Johnson would be the featured talent and make more than them!


Don't think we can compare a modelling gig with Dean Johnson to a promo shift with promo people working for alcohol companies tongue

Jan 11 13 04:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Lovely Day Media wrote:
As the service manager of a Honda motorcycle dealer, I found out I was the lowest paid person in the place.  This includes the guy who went around emptying trash cans.  When I tried talking to the general manager about it, he wouldn't hear anything along the lines ... then told me that if I didn't start getting along with the parts manager (who was impossible for everyone to get along with, including him sometimes), he would fire me.

  To me, that said he was going to fire me because there was no way I was going to be able to get along with someone who didn't want to be gotten along with ... so I told him I was leaving in 2 weeks and would write it up for him later.  He told me that I couldn't quit and if I tried, he'd do bodily harm to me ... so I changed it and said I quit right that second.  I left.

  A lot of people said I shouldn't have done that, but these are people not involved in the situation.  They don't get yelled at for doing what one is told to do, not doing what one is told to do, doing things that make sense when there is no one around to ask and for not doing anything when not given a direct order.  I even got yelled at for selling a motorcycle (they got almost $2,000 in gross profit for it, too).

That's insane! I've had that too, where you're treated awfully and you think they hate you, yet they won't let you leave! lol

Glad you got away though! So many people are in those situations and it's just not fair! sad

Jan 11 13 04:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digitoxin
Posts: 13,308
Houston, Texas, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
As the service manager of a Honda motorcycle dealer, I found out I was the lowest paid person in the place.  This includes the guy who went around emptying trash cans.

As you point out, in the real world of business, there are often pay discrepancies between employees (or freelancers) doing the same job.  Sometimes these differences can be quite large and they exist at many employers or clients (in my experience, they exist at all employers or clients but, "all" may be too broad to state beyond my experience).  That does not make them "discriminatory" as the OP suggests.  You did the right thing:  attempt to negotiate a better wage or, failing that, leave for a better rate.

Jan 11 13 04:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digitoxin
Posts: 13,308
Houston, Texas, US


misszara wrote:
Don't think we can compare a modelling gig with Dean Johnson to a promo shift with promo people working for alcohol companies tongue

I understand your point but you are missing mine and why I gave the penultimate example.

It is and absolute routine that male models are paid less than female models for the same gig, same hours, same everything.

Apart from modeling, It is absolute routine that there are pay discrepancies within companies for employees doing the same work (provided, in the US, that this discrepancy is both gender and race neutral).  What you are calling "discrimination" isn't.  You may come to learn as your career in modelling or business blossoms in the not too distant future that many jobs will pay (sometimes vastly) different rates for the same work and experience.  What you describe is simply not that unusual.

Jan 11 13 04:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
misszara
Posts: 6,715
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Digitoxin wrote:

I understand your point but you are missing mine and why I gave the penultimate example.

It is and absolute routine that male models are paid less than female models for the same gig, same hours, same everything.

Apart from modeling, It is absolute routine that there are pay discrepancies within companies for employees doing the same work (provided, in the US, that this discrepancy is both gender and race neutral).  What you are calling "discrimination" isn't.  You may come to learn as your career in modelling or business blossoms in the not too distant future that many jobs will pay (sometimes vastly) different rates for the same work and experience.  What you describe is simply not that unusual.

Oh no, I don't think mine was discrimination as such, just unfair smile Was wanting to see if anyone had any worse stories or could relate smile

Thankyou for the input! Kinda glad I got the day off though, it's 37*C! lol

Jan 11 13 05:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,012
Portland, Oregon, US


misszara wrote:
it's 37*C! lol

Try 1C and the sun just went down tongue

Jan 11 13 05:25 pm  Link  Quote 
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