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Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause, empowers the United States Congress:

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

---------------------------------------------------------

Once Again, Absolutely Nothing Enters The Public Domain This Year

Not a single work entered the public domain in the US on January 1st, thanks (yet again) to constant copyright extensions, which include retroactive extensions.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201101 … year.shtml

Retroactive extensions, of course, make absolutely no sense. If the point of copyright is to act as incentive for the creation of new works, that incentive obviously worked in getting those works created. To then retroactively extend the copyright is to, quite blatantly, go back on the deal, and take away the rights of the public with no recourse or compensation.

opinion:

No outcry from the conservatives for one simple reason: they don't actually give a crap WHAT the constitution says unless it HAPPENS to be in alignment with them.
Jan 13 13 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Disney $, yes?

Disney wants Mickey to be theirs.
Jan 13 13 01:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


SAND DIAL wrote:
Disney $, yes?

Disney wants Mickey to be theirs.

Definitely a big part of it.

Jan 13 13 01:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Do you have the facts? I dont, about Coryright having been 10? years [+ life of creator]
to 70? and how much Mickey etc are a part of that.

I have read casually about it.

There was a BIG Mickey copyright case over ?? who created him????
Jan 13 13 02:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


SAND DIAL wrote:
Do you have the facts? I dont, about Coryright having been 10? years [+ life of creator]
to 70? and how much Mickey etc are a part of that.

I have read casually about it.

There was a BIG Mickey copyright case over ?? who created him????

I think they would lose the copyright on steamboat willy, not on anything with Mickey in it. The problem is he is also a trademark.

Jan 13 13 02:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SensualThemes
Posts: 3,020
Swoyersville, Pennsylvania, US


So if you create an image and demand continues for it long after your death, why should there be no way for you to keep copyright control of it? 

So then I could use it to promote my product and your heirs get nothing?

Why do we want this?
Jan 13 13 02:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Pinups4 wrote:
Why do we want this?

Because the Constitution demands it. So you need to start jumping up and down about THIS issue, too, and not just gun rights.

Jan 13 13 02:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hoodlum
Posts: 10,204
Sacramento, California, US


While I agree that © and trademark works should be limited and not indefinite I dont see it as a partisan issue but rather a big media rights grab which bty tends to support Dems over repubs buy a long shot.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/0 … 55502.html
Jan 13 13 02:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Pinups4 wrote:
So if you create an image and demand continues for it long after your death, why should there be no way for you to keep copyright control of it? 

So then I could use it to promote my product and your heirs get nothing?

Why do we want this?

This has been going on for a long time?

If you recall songwriter Jim Croce, I recall a book where his widow stated she got nothing, his Music Publishers got it all.

Jan 13 13 02:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Once Again, Absolutely Nothing Enters The Public Domain This Year

gee, Im speechless.
Jan 13 13 02:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Hoodlum wrote:
While I agree that © and trademark works should be limited and not indefinite I dont see it as a partisan issue but rather a big media rights grab which bty tends to support Dems over repubs buy a long shot.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/0 … 55502.html

That is so but I rarely, rarely, rarely see other people on the right saying things like these two did:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=867282

And that didn't last long.

Jan 13 13 02:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hoodlum
Posts: 10,204
Sacramento, California, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

That is so but I rarely, rarely, rarely see other people on the right saying things like these two did:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=867282

And that didn't last long.

That's cause rebubs are for the most part just as much in the pockets of big business as are dems. Different pockets but in just as deep.

Jan 13 13 02:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


It strikes me odd that MM's resident Constitutional scholars never seem to bring it up.
Jan 13 13 02:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
It strikes me odd that MM's resident Constitutional scholars never seem to bring it up.

I don't take issue with this. If thats what you were asking

Jan 13 13 02:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:

I don't take issue with this. If thats what you were asking

So you only care about what the constitution says when it suits you?

Jan 13 13 02:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
So you only care about what the constitution says when it suits you?

I don't take issue with the wording of Article I, Section 8, Clause 8

if thats what you were asking.


I take issue with the entire wording of the 17th Amendment as it has done more harm than good, I question the utility of the 3rd Amendment but not because I condone quartering soldiers in my home

The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment should more clearly be applied to gender, and I take issue with the fact that this is open to interpretation.


so anyway, are we talking about a section of the constitution or how we feel about the whole thing?

in general this particular discussion on copyright doesn't engage me because I don't take issue with this.

Jan 13 13 02:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Does my estate own CR on my work for 70 years?
Jan 13 13 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Viking Models
Posts: 1,553
Huntington Beach, California, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

I think they would lose the copyright on steamboat willy, not on anything with Mickey in it. The problem is he is also a trademark.

Disney is owned by the tribe...Why don't you blame them?

Jan 13 13 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Viking Models
Posts: 1,553
Huntington Beach, California, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:

I don't take issue with the wording of Article I, Section 8, Clause 8

if thats what you were asking.


I take issue with the entire wording of the 17th Amendment as it has done more harm than good, I question the utility of the 3rd Amendment but not because I condone quartering soldiers in my home

The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment should more clearly be applied to gender, and I take issue with the fact that this is open to interpretation.


so anyway, are we talking about a section of the constitution or how we feel about the whole thing?

in general this particular discussion on copyright doesn't engage me because I don't take issue with this.

Section 4, 14th amendment

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
WTF?????

Jan 13 13 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Instinct Images
Posts: 21,501
San Diego, California, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause, empowers the United States Congress:

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

---------------------------------------------------------

Once Again, Absolutely Nothing Enters The Public Domain This Year

Not a single work entered the public domain in the US on January 1st, thanks (yet again) to constant copyright extensions, which include retroactive extensions.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201101 … year.shtml

Retroactive extensions, of course, make absolutely no sense. If the point of copyright is to act as incentive for the creation of new works, that incentive obviously worked in getting those works created. To then retroactively extend the copyright is to, quite blatantly, go back on the deal, and take away the rights of the public with no recourse or compensation.

opinion:

No outcry from the conservatives for one simple reason: they don't actually give a crap WHAT the constitution says unless it HAPPENS to be in alignment with them.

You do realize that article is 2 years old, right? Has anything entered public domain since then?

Jan 13 13 03:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Instinct Images wrote:
You do realize that article is 2 years old, right? Has anything entered public domain since then?

Today is Public Domain Day 2013, No Published Works Entering PD in U.S.A. Until 2019

http://www.infodocket.com/2013/01/01/to … this-year/

Jan 13 13 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


Viking Models wrote:

Section 4, 14th amendment

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
WTF?????

hahaha, they are saying they don't want to be obligated to pay for fighting rebels. For instance, the confederacy had to issue new currency and bonds, everyone that bought bonds lost all their money (the south went bankrupt, and would have gone bankrupt whether there was a war or not), once the south was reincorporated back into the union, the union federation wanted everyone to know that they lost their money, so don't try to get it back.

Jan 13 13 03:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SensualThemes
Posts: 3,020
Swoyersville, Pennsylvania, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

Because the Constitution demands it. So you need to start jumping up and down about THIS issue, too, and not just gun rights.

I am not opposed to it, but the Constitution doesn't demand the right not be renewable, or specify what limited time is.

It is in my mind a clause for protection of rights, not one to build a collection of public domain materials.

If someone let's their rights expire, it is their choice.  It would not be mine.

Jan 13 13 03:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RennsportPhotography
Posts: 16,863
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US


If Congress set the time at 150 years, that is a "limited time". They could also granta 150 year renewal and it would still be a "limited" but lengthy time.
Jan 13 13 03:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Robert Helm wrote:
If Congress set the time at 150 years, that is a "limited time". They could also granta 150 year renewal and it would still be a "limited" but lengthy time.

That's true, but that wouldn't fool you constitutionalist patriots, now would it?

Jan 13 13 03:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Pinups4 wrote:
It is in my mind a clause for protection of rights, not one to build a collection of public domain materials.

The truth is the complete opposite of what you believe.

You are so wrong that you literally could not be more wrong.

If you were right there would be no limits stipulated at all.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

Madison proposed that the Constitution permit Congress "to secure to literary authors their copyrights for a limited time", or, in the alternative, "to encourage, by proper premiums & Provisions, the advancement of useful knowledge and discoveries".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause

Jan 13 13 04:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RennsportPhotography
Posts: 16,863
Cherry Hill, New Jersey, US


In Golan v Holder the court ruled
"The majority opinion was written by Justice Ginsburg and joined by Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Sotomayor. "The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne), which took effect in 1886, is the principal accord governing international copyright relations."[22]"

How can the OP disagree with the ACLU Justice who wrote the majority opinion?
Jan 13 13 04:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Robert Helm wrote:
In Golan v Holder the court ruled
"The majority opinion was written by Justice Ginsburg and joined by Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, and Sotomayor. "The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (Berne), which took effect in 1886, is the principal accord governing international copyright relations."[22]"

How can the OP disagree with the ACLU Justice who wrote the majority opinion?

I could live with the 1886 Berne Convention rules. You want to roll everything back to that? I say let's do it.

Jan 13 13 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SensualThemes
Posts: 3,020
Swoyersville, Pennsylvania, US


If the founders had a specific time length in mind, they could have drafted it.

Should the formula for mcdonalds secret sauce or kfcs blend be public domain-totally eliminating a major leg of their brand advantage?  I say no.

Should anyone be able to use mickey mouse, or include an original walt disney legendary clip to promote their line of sexy underwear or viagra? I say it would hurt disneys brand and be against the concept of the founders protection.

If warner bros decided fred flintstone no longer needed protection because (as Iwould consider) the time for that show to be marketable has passed as it is so tied with postwar concepts of life and family...they could decide to not renew, and it could revert.

Remember, nothing stops someone from making an appropriate derivative work that is ALMOST the same
Jan 13 13 04:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Pinups4 wrote:
If the founders had a specific time length in mind, they could have drafted it.

The Copyright Act of 1790 was the first federal copyright act to be instituted in the United States, though most of the states had passed various legislation securing copyrights in the years immediately following the Revolutionary War. The stated object of the act was the "encouragement of learning," and it achieved this by securing authors the "sole right and liberty of printing, reprinting, publishing and vending" the copies of their "maps, charts, and books" for a term of 14 years, with the right to renew for one additional 14 year term should the copyright holder still be alive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Act_of_1790

Jan 13 13 04:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Pinups4 wrote:
Remember, nothing stops someone from making an appropriate derivative work that is ALMOST the same

Where did you get that idea?

Jan 13 13 04:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

That's true, but that wouldn't fool you constitutionalist patriots, now would it?

what are you even talking about, what do you want people to say?

its like we are playing charades in here.

congress hasn't abridged the constitution with how they manage copyrights, we can disagree with the current laws but your argument implies that it has something to do with that section of the constitution. which nobody here agrees with, unless you just wish to amend that part of the constitution, which there isn't really a movement for...

Jan 13 13 04:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
congress hasn't abridged the constitution with how they manage copyrights, we can disagree with the current laws but your argument implies that it has something to do with that section of the constitution. which nobody here agrees with, unless you just wish to amend that part of the constitution, which there isn't really a movement for...

I want to see a bunch of right-wingers jumping up and down on their radio and TV shows talking about how extending copyright terms indefinitely is really a way of creating limitless copyright terms, which is unconstitutional.

Is that too much to ask?

Jan 13 13 04:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sublime LightWorks
Posts: 6,017
Atlanta, Georgia, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
It strikes me odd that MM's resident Constitutional scholars never seem to bring it up.

You guys do a fine job of bring up dumb shit to discuss, so we just sit back and wait for you to get your panties in a wad and post.  It's much easier and we spend less time researching crap, allowing us to actually have jobs and make money.

That said, I agree with your OP and points made on the never ending extensions.  As noted in followup posting, the democrats have a much greater hand in this than conservatives.  Look in you own backyard before worrying about your neighbor's.

Jan 13 13 05:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sublime LightWorks
Posts: 6,017
Atlanta, Georgia, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

I want to see a bunch of right-wingers jumping up and down on their radio and TV shows talking about how extending copyright terms indefinitely is really a way of creating limitless copyright terms, which is unconstitutional.

Is that too much to ask?

Suggest you email or call into their shows.  Feel free.

Jan 13 13 05:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Richard Karlsen
Posts: 1,708
Gloversville, New York, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:
Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause, empowers the United States Congress:

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

---------------------------------------------------------

Once Again, Absolutely Nothing Enters The Public Domain This Year

Not a single work entered the public domain in the US on January 1st, thanks (yet again) to constant copyright extensions, which include retroactive extensions.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201101 … year.shtml

Retroactive extensions, of course, make absolutely no sense. If the point of copyright is to act as incentive for the creation of new works, that incentive obviously worked in getting those works created. To then retroactively extend the copyright is to, quite blatantly, go back on the deal, and take away the rights of the public with no recourse or compensation.

opinion:

No outcry from the conservatives for one simple reason: they don't actually give a crap WHAT the constitution says unless it HAPPENS to be in alignment with them.

The low information voters outlook of what the Consdtitution says is unbelievely amazing.  It is the liberal left that is always trying to bend it to fit whatever whim of the moment they have.  If they actually read it and tried to understand it, never mind that will never happen!!


Article 1, sect 8 defines what the Congress CAN DO.  It is part of the "ENUMERATED POWERS"  the things that they are allowed to do.  If you don't like what they do, vote them out!!

The 1 st and 2nd Amendments as well as most of the Bill of Rights was added to clearly define WHAT THEY CANNOT DO!!   


Even a liberal should be able to comprehend:

   9 th Amend:    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


   10 th Amend:  The powers NOT delegated to the United States by the Constitution, NOR prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Jan 13 13 05:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Richard Karlsen wrote:
The low information voters outlook of what the Consdtitution says is unbelievely amazing.  It is the liberal left that is always trying to bend it to fit whatever whim of the moment they have.  If they actually read it and tried to understand it, never mind that will never happen!!


Article 1, sect 8 defines what the Congress CAN DO.  It is part of the "ENUMERATED POWERS"  the things that they are allowed to do.  If you don't like what they do, vote them out!!

The 1 st and 2nd Amendments as well as most of the Bill of Rights was added to clearly define WHAT THEY CANNOT DO!!   


Even a liberal should be able to comprehend:

   9 th Amend:    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


   10 th Amend:  The powers NOT delegated to the United States by the Constitution, NOR prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

I'll bet you are trying to make some kind of point with all of this. Care to share it with us?

Copyrights are for limited periods. Any attempt to circumvent this or extend it should be vigorously fought by our resident Glenn Beck viewers.

Jan 13 13 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


NIRBTG, how did this thread [very timely] become a left/right thread?
Jan 13 13 06:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Richard Karlsen
Posts: 1,708
Gloversville, New York, US


NothingIsRealButTheGirl wrote:

I'll bet you are trying to make some kind of point with all of this. Care to share it with us?

Copyrights are for limited periods. Any attempt to circumvent this or extend it should be vigorously fought by our resident Glenn Beck viewers.

How simple can it be??   Congress has the enumerated power to control copyrights.   It is within thier
Constitutional powers!!!  "Limited" is not specified in the Constitution but defined by the will of Congress.

One year or a thousand it is their decision.  Probably one of the few things they do that actually have a constitutional bassis!!!!!!!!

Jan 13 13 06:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 27,955
Los Angeles, California, US


Richard Karlsen wrote:
How simple can it be??   Congress has the enumerated power to control copyrights.   It is within thier
Constitutional powers!!!  "Limited" is not specified in the Constitution but defined by the will of Congress.

One year or a thousand it is their decision.  Probably one of the few things they do that actually have a constitutional bassis!!!!!!!!

Why is the term limited at all?

Jan 13 13 07:32 pm  Link  Quote 
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