Aera Crescent wrote:
My question is (I know this is kinda long....) How do I go about finding photographers when I am like this?! I'm not about to switch and become a photographer! I do not have the patience to sit and go edit photo after photo after photo.. nor do I want to deal with all you other models wanting hundreds of pictures from me!

I just want to model, have a good time, get a paid gig once in a while, express myself, find great people to work with! But yet, I think I look at things more like a photographer or some other person. I don't think I look at my work like a model should.

...help.

In an ideal situation, you would have a friend who would be the photographer with you as the model. That would be very nice.

You would find that someone who has the same adventurous spirit as yours, and would share your fantasy on modeling and cosplay.

Alternatively, photography classes would love to have a different mix of subjects for their lessons from time to time and knowing the instructor would get you some portfolio snaps being scheduled for a session.

All the best to your dreams and career!

.

Shandra Stark wrote:
I critque imagery as harshly as any photographer.  If I wouldn't hang the image in my home, it doesn't go up here, or anywhere.

If you want things a certain way, and are one with the fact that you are an amateur- you may need to pay for the imagery that strikes your fancy.

I'll tell you this- no money was exchanged for a single image you see on my profile.

You're not yet at a level where you can trade up, or trade for the type of imagery you really, really want, so...either pay someone (or multiple someones), or trade with people whose work you enjoy even a little, until you get the imagery that A) makes you happy B) gets you paid work

Before I ever started gettng paid gigs, I got a lot of great work trading with people who were "okay".  Sometimes people surprise you.  Sometimes their best work is with you.  That doesn't mean you should shoot with people who suck, just that you should be open to working with people who are talented, even if you want to nitpick...when you're new.

This is exactly what was going through my mind when I was reading your post OP. I definitely don't love every image I've ever gotten back from a shoot. I keep shooting to find that 'perfect' image. Every once in a while I get it and it makes all the not as great images and time spent 100% worth it.

And definitely give photographers who might be just 'okay' a chance. I don't want to brag or whatever, but there have been several times when I've looked at a port and thought, "I see what he was trying to achieve there, but the llama just wasn't getting it" and I know that if I had worked with that photographer, then the image would have been perfect. I used to get all worked up in the technical aspects like lighting and cropped bits, but it was driving me insane so now I try not to worry about it and keep on moving.

If you don't work with the 'eh' photographers to get practice, you won't reach a skill level worthy of the 'OMG' photographers.

I know you said you don't want to be a photographer, but if you like llamaing and want to get some practice go ahead and try doing to some self portraits with a self timer or have a trusted loved one take some pictures of you. Practice your favorite poses and facial expressions until you have them nailed. Sometimes practicing in a mirror isn't the same as looking at still frames. You don't have to edit the pictures or ever show them to anyone if you don't want to, but you've had a chance to practice which is always helpful.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
Am I reading correctly that you are critiqueing the photographers, either verbally or in writing, in the phase of negotiating the shoot?  If so, stop it!  That's not your function as a llama, unless, of course you are paying the photographer.

What do you mean with "it's not your function"?
If somebody write me on here asking me if I'm interested in shooting, I have all the rights to go through their port and, if I'm not impressed, saying so - and I think explanations, when polite, could be required.


However, OP...

If you're not getting what you would like to get from your current collaborations and don't have a friend photographer ready to help you developping your own project, the fastest solution that comes to my mind is hiring a photographer to get the kind of images you like and want.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for paying people who knows how to do their job, photographers included, but I would suggest you to ask yourself if it will worth.
I don't know your financial situation, but talking about myself, I have had to give up on tons of ideas I used to had 'cause I didn't find somebody willing/good enough to shoot 'em and I didn't have enough money to make myself such a present.
I figured that getting that pictures in my port wouldn't have brought me incomes enough to justify the expense itself.
So, do your counts and think about it.

Laura BrokenDoll wrote:


What do you mean with "it's not your function"?
If somebody write me on here asking me if I'm interested in shooting, I have all the rights to go through their port and, if I'm not impressed, saying so - and I think explanations, when polite, could be required.

"I'm not impressed with your work"  is a bit harsh but it's acceptable if you feel that you really, really must explain why you're turning down the offer.  In more practical and professional terms, however, an explanation is not normally necessary.  "Thank you, not at this time." does the job quite nicely in most situations.  Merely having the "right" to express oneself doesn't mean that it's always appropriate to do so.  And the qualifying word "polite" weighs very heavily here.

On the other hand "Your lighting was way off in #1 and in #2 you should have cropped out the hands and accentuated the eyes, while in #3 . . . ." would be appropriate only if paying the photographer, and often, not even then.

My concern is that the OP might, and I emphasize might, be lecturing photographers rather than just passing by the ones in whose work she's uninterested.  It wouldn't take long for that to get around in a relatively small, close-knit community like Seattle, and would tend to close off the very (read better) photographers that she wants to work with.

Aera Crescent wrote:
My question is (I know this is kinda long....) How do I go about finding photographers when I am like this?!

You don't.  You claim to be a traditional artist, then stick to it and do self portraits.

Laura BrokenDoll wrote:

What do you mean with "it's not your function"?
If somebody write me on here asking me if I'm interested in shooting, I have all the rights to go through their port and, if I'm not impressed, saying so - and I think explanations, when polite, could be required.

It could only happen on the internet where photographers are hand maidens to models.

Aera Crescent wrote:
I am a traidtional artist first and foremost. I am not a photographer.
I took up modeling for creative expression, for sexual expression, for expression of idea, etc, all the good things, but also to earn some money for the things you can't post on MM.

But this post isn't about how I feel about being paid. I simply wrote that to let you all know a little bit about me.

My question is this:

I have a difficult time contacting photographers. I'll tell you why.
I don't like a lot of the work I see from amateur photographers, and I am... unfortunately an AMATEUR NOBODY MODEL. Yes I'll say it. AND I am a Plus Sized Model who feels she has a few flaws that will keep her from climbing up in the Alternative industry.
I see these photographer's works and I critique naturally, based on the use of lighting, the subject matter, the model, things in the picture, seeing bits not cropped out, I even have a hard time accepting my own images, and I do not critique myself. I critique my images based on how perhaps a photographer or an artist would critique the entire image.
I understand a model should be choosing the best work that reflects the best look for her, and photographers may choose the best overall images for his/her portfolio. We look at different things!!

My question is (I know this is kinda long....) How do I go about finding photographers when I am like this?! Im not about to switch and become a photographer! I do not have the patience to sit and go edit photo after photo after photo.. nor do I want to deal with all you other models wanting hundreds of pictures from me!

I just want to model, have a good time, get a paid gig once in a while, express myself, find great people to work with! But yet, I think I look at things more like a photographer or some other person. I don't think I look at my work like a model should.

...help.

It seems as though there are separate issues going on here.  The first is communication.  Whatever the reason, you are obviously unable to communicate to potential photographers what you want out of the collaboration.  Otherwise you wouldn't be doing edit after edit (assuming you have the rights to modify the photographer's work - but that's a topic for another thread).

Perhaps it is how the shoots are focused.  Instead of shooting for more images with an amateur photographer try focusing with a goal of ONE great image.  Limit the shoot to say, twenty frames.  It's a good exercise for both of you to slow down and focus on details.

Another issue is your attitude.  You seem to me to be a slightly negative person.  I would never willingly shoot with that type of personality because I hate being around that type of persona.  It takes the same effort to be positive as it does to be negative.  You need to own yourself.  You need to own your strengths and own your weaknesses.  Always strive to improve.  Critique yourself honestly but end that critique with a detailed plan for improvement.  A photo shoot is a collaborative effort, and all involved need to be ready to improve and execute.  Be positive but realistic, and always try to be better!

Rays Fine Art: Am I reading correctly that you are critiquing the photographers, either verbally or in writing, in the phase of negotiating the shoot?  If so, stop it!  That's not your function as a model, unless, of course you are paying the photographer.

If you mean that you are having trouble picking a photographer based on his work, then the problem seems to be that you distrust the photographer's aesthetics, which can indeed make you overly nitpicky.

I do not express my artistic viewpoints to the photographer unless they ask for it. With #2153581 he loves it when I catch these problems in his photography, like cropping and lighting. He likes my artistic eye. But he's a hobbyist photographer who wants to work with as many models as possible and is very accomidating to his models. He's easy to get along with and isn't hung up about things. But he gets fired up about specific topics. He tries to teach me things and wants to see me go far. I've worked with him a few times now and wish to find other photographers. He and I have artistic ideas to do together of course, and we will continue to work together.
Do I go to other photographers and think I can have the same relationship? No. But he was the first photographer who would pick me up, work with me and get me images to put on MM. So I have developed a sort of 'it's okay to look at photography in this way, because I'm an artist." It's not okay for me to express my disdain for certain elements in a photograph, or how I personally feel about a photo. I understand this. So I do not. But it makes me hesitant to just go up and ask a photographer, be it they be someone I of whom I feel their photographer is 'okay' or of whom I feel their photography is FANTASTIC (Because I feel my portfolio is shit. And it is shit. I'm trying to move on past that by being more discerning of what I put in there, but with little to no shoots happening recently, how can I find ANYTHING worthy of putting in there? I have made some changes recently with images that I feel are more to my artistic and quality of taste.)

sdgillis: You don't.  You claim to be a traditional artist, then stick to it and do self portraits.

I Disagree. My traditional art doesn't include drawing realistic people. It includes Psychedelic colorful abstract work: LiquidCandyRainbow.deviantart.com and Fractals. I have no talent whatsoever in drawing people. I tried when I was younger. So, I won't take your advice. Sorry. I like doing what I do. I just want to try to gain a better perspective and figure out how to approach this better, quell the anxiety. Thank you.

Poses: The best thing for you to do is identify the kind of photographers you'd like to ideally work with, then turn yourself into the kind of model with skills and background that will help you look more attractive to them. I'm more than happy to help give you some more advice if you like!

Thank you! I would like to learn more about that and I appreciate your kind offer!

Boutique Photography CA: It seems as though there are separate issues going on here.  The first is communication.  Whatever the reason, you are obviously unable to communicate to potential photographers what you want out of the collaboration.  Otherwise you wouldn't be doing edit after edit (assuming you have the rights to modify the photographer's work - but that's a topic for another thread).

Perhaps it is how the shoots are focused.  Instead of shooting for more images with an amateur photographer try focusing with a goal of ONE great image.  Limit the shoot to say, twenty frames.  It's a good exercise for both of you to slow down and focus on details.

Another issue is your attitude.  You seem to me to be a slightly negative person.  I would never willingly shoot with that type of personality because I hate being around that type of persona.  It takes the same effort to be positive as it does to be negative.  You need to own yourself.  You need to own your strengths and own your weaknesses.  Always strive to improve.  Critique yourself honestly but end that critique with a detailed plan for improvement.  A photo shoot is a collaborative effort, and all involved need to be ready to improve and execute.  Be positive but realistic, and always try to be better!

I actually do not edit any of my photographs, even though I have rights to edit the images from the photographer of who's number I previously mentioned (and I have to send him the edit. He is not good in photoshop yet and would be interested to see what I could do.) So I am not sure where you are getting that. I'm sorry if I ever implied that I was editing photographer's works or verbally telling them what I thought of their work or writing to them about the cropping issues!! I am not. Except when asked by the aforementioned photographer! This is something I look at when I look at portfolios when assessing whether or not to CONTACT a photographer, and then I get wet feet or I feel put off. Maybe put off isn't even the right word either. I think communication IS an issue here. I'm very sorry for the confusion.

Slightly negative about myself perhaps as I try to understand where I would best fit, as I try to get into the Seattle modeling network/community, and as I try to figure out how to best approach people without offending them or making them feel like I am going around town critiquing them on every aspect of their photography! As I think I have done here! I keep that stuff mostly to myself!!
When I work I am positive and easy to work with. This is why I have references and list everyone I have worked with so far (which is very few!!) I told you I'm an amateur! But I took a lot of test shots and practiced a lot with my loving partner before getting involved in shooting with Fantasy and Seduction Photography who is very active in the community and shoots with a photography group in Edmonds, WA.

So you know, to each his own, and again I am very sorry for the confusion about the kind of person I am. I'm not going to go into the kind of person I am any further or sit here and try to tell you what I am and am not doing. I appreciate EVERYONES input. I really do. It has been very helpful.

If anyone else has any feedback for me on how to get more involved in a positive and healthy way, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Avonelle wrote:
Also, does Seattle have anything like group shoots? When I was getting into modeling, that was a great way to break the ice. I am a very shy person naturally, so emailing photographers was always very difficult for me (and still is).

Group shoots work in a variety of different ways, but the one in northwest Ohio features about ninety different models and photographers, who schedule one hour one-on-one time slots with each other. This can be a great way to work with a lot of people in one day, to meet other new people, and work with photographers whose portfolios might otherwise intimidate you and keep you from contacting them. And it gives you a great chance to network! There are usually lots of new people and lots of veterans, which means you can gain a lot of knowledge in just one day!

I would look and see if your area has something like that! It definitely helped me overcome a lot of shyness and anxiety at the beginning! Good luck!

Thank you SO much for responding!!!
Im so glad someone seems to understand what it's like to be in my shoes. I think you're right, I might be unfairly judging other people's work and not giving them a chance, but when some people message me and want to work with me, or friend me and all I see are babes (skinny, toned babes) on cars, I don't want to work with them, because i wonder: "Why? I don't like their art at all even though they can make a car and a babe look good in an image outdoors!" It's just my personal taste getting in the way, but maybe that is just kind of portfolio they want to upkeep on MM, but they would be willing to NOT put me on a car? lol.

There's that photography group my first photographer is part of, but it's in Edmonds and that's kind of far.

No I don't have the extra cash to go paying photographers and Ironically I got a message from someone who's relocatting, who said I could book with him for a paid shoot. I am of the opinion a model should never have to pay a photographer to get good shots. I want to work up to it, like you said. This is a time to learn. This is why I asked my question and am willing to hear everyone's responses. This is important to me. To understand this kind of art/artistic buisiness if you will. It's fun for me, but it's also a way to make some cash in the future (but this isn't about how I feel about money)

I tried to look for Modeling meetups in Seattle, but I couldn't find any. Someone told me to look in the casting calls for meetups, and I couldn't find any. Someone told me to put up a casting call on MM, and I have bee putting them, re-wrote my MM Profile, stated the things I wanted to try to do in my MM profile, all that stuff. I think I'm covered in stating my intent and expressing my work ethic, etc etc. All the intellectual analyzer stuff.

But my portfolio is bad. However not even the GWC's or the Amateur photographers will message me and I can't seem to find any to message. It IS a bad cycle. I feel boxed in. Maybe I'm just complaining and now isn't the time? And yet I need to have practice, right?
My loving partner and I don't do the photography thing anymore, I can't work with him, and the photo quality is bad, he can't critique me and I can't seem to critique myself, because I don't have anyone who can help me see what I'm doing wrong, etc etc, or what I'm doing well.

I would rather work with photographers and meet people in the industry and learn by doing than do it myself and be alone in this process. Because it's more fun to be around supportive people who will offer some help and tricks once in a while.

sdgillis: You don't.  You claim to be a traditional artist, then stick to it and do self portraits.

Aera Crescent wrote:
I Disagree. My traditional art doesn't include drawing realistic people. It includes Psychedelic colorful abstract work: LiquidCandyRainbow.deviantart.com and Fractals.

THATS NOT TRADITIONAL ART!!!!, that's more like digital art or experimental art.

sdgillis wrote:

sdgillis: You don't.  You claim to be a traditional artist, then stick to it and do self portraits.

THATS NOT TRADITIONAL ART!!!!, that's more like digital art or experimental art.

The Fractals are Digital. Made in Apophysis. Perhaps I should have made that distinction. You did not need to start raising up caps at me.

The other work is TRADITIONAL in the sense that I use TRADITIONAL MEDIUMS to CREATE IT. For Example: Watercolors, Colored Pencils, Markers, Graphite, etc etc. That IS NOT DIGITAL. That is TRADITIONAL. So that is why I say I am a traditional artist. I just do not do classic self portraits of pretty people. I do abstract/psychedelic/experimental art. Crazy colorful stuff. Hence: wwww.liquidcandyrainbow.deviantart.com

I am not going to respond to you anymore. I will not argue with you about what is that I do. I can already tell that you are going to derail this thread. I am choosing not to go any further. Thank you. I hope your endeavors go well, but I am choosing to agree to disagree here.

Ted Wen wrote:
When I am the photographer, I am the artist, not the model. In a trade situation, I will try to make some photos that the model can use in their portfolio. However, if someone wants to trade with me, that means at least they are ok with what I already have in my portfolio. I am fine if you tell me what kind of shots you want, but I don't like someone on the set constantly try to change my style.

It sounds like you want to work with new photographers who has little idea what they want to do. Maybe you should focus on finding student photographers and people who just getting started.

Also, if you want to collaborate with someone, it is a two way street. You have to be abke to try things you may not like and give the other part a chance to experiment their artistic vision, however wrong it may look to you.

I am generally happy working with anyone who is kind to me, I an kind to them. I understand I need to be more open to giving others a chance. So I really appreciate you reminding me of this on a nice way, and not being offended. I want to usually collaborate. But I am starting to think about just practice. There's a lot I want to do, and it will have to wait.

I am of the opinion a model should never have to pay a photographer to get good shots. I want to work up to it, like you said.

But my portfolio is bad. However not even the GWC's or the Amateur photographers will message me and I can't seem to find any to message.

Well then, you're in kind of a conundrum, aren't you? May I ask how you arrived at the opinion that a model should never have to pay for good shots?

You don't want to go all the way to Edmonds, you seem to think that amateur photographers are beneath you, and you don't see the value in paying a good photographer to help you improve your own portfolio.

I'm familiar with the Glamour Meetup group in Edmonds, because I used to shoot with them when they met in Seattle. I had no expectations at all that I would get any good images out of it, but it's where I learned to shoot in a studio. And eventually, I did get some decent images out of it. I also got to work with some excellent models, and some models that still had a lot to learn. A lot of the photographers who attend are still learning, like you are, but there are some good photographers who attend as well. And if you go a few times, and work with a bunch of different people, you'll start to get some images that will improve your portfolio, and help attract other people who would want to work with you.

Or, you could pay a good photographer for some decent images.

Grit City Pinups wrote:
I am of the opinion a model should never have to pay a photographer to get good shots. I want to work up to it, like you said.

But my portfolio is bad. However not even the GWC's or the Amateur photographers will message me and I can't seem to find any to message
Well then, you're in kind of a conundrum, aren't you? May I ask how you arrived at the opinion that a model should never have to pay for good shots?

You don't want to go all the way to Edmonds, you seem to think that amateur photographers are beneath you, and you don't see the value in paying a good photographer to help you improve your own portfolio.

I'm familiar with the Glamour Meetup group in Edmonds, because I used to shoot with them when they met in Seattle. I had no expectations at all that I would get any good images out of it, but it's where I learned to shoot in a studio. And eventually, I did get some decent images out of it. I also got to work with some excellent models, and some models that still had a lot to learn. A lot of the photographers who attend are still learning, like you are, but there are some good photographers who attend as well. And if you go a few times, and work with a bunch of different people, you'll start to get some images that will improve your portfolio, and help attract other people who would want to work with you.

Or, you could pay a good photographer for some decent images.

I've changed some of my thinking, and I never said anyone was BENEATH me. This is another horrible misconception and I am surprised some people are coming to conclusions like: "Verbally or in writing critiquring photographers who don't want to be critiqued" (that's not repeated verbatim, just kind of what I interpreted someone saying earlier), or what you just said, that I think amateur photographers are "beneath me". I work with someone in the Edmond's group who considers him Amateur, and we work well together. I like him as a person, but I'd like to not work with him ALL the time. I'd like to branch out, get different looks, as I was told to do by many people. To not saturate my port with the same artist.

I'm speaking with someone I worked with once about shooting again, he wants to. I want to. He's well known in the burlesque scene in Seattle. We had a lot of fun shooting, but his schedule has been hectic. And I have been speaking to another photographer that I got the balls to message and he responded very well to me! I also managed to get the courage to message 3 other photographers, that I am waiting to see if they even write back.
Which, by the way, I always mind my P's and Q's, I am very polite to photographers  and show a willingness to learn and to create art.

So, I am very sorry if my question is offering people here. It was never intended to give this impression that people are 'beneath me'.

The problem is really that - I am having a hard time assessing whether or not I can work with someone based on my artistic tastes that are not matching up with what I see in their portfolio. If I see Babes on cars, for example, I am going to be hesitant to contact them, because what if they expect me to be 105lbs, 5'9", and lay on a car, on the beach? Their art that they are presenting in their port, no matter how well the lighting and technique is, doesn't go with my vision.

I spoke about this with my boyfriend who helped me practice a lot of my stuff before moving on to working with one of my credits/references that I mentioned earlier in this thread: He said I have a 'vision', that's the problem. And it's kind of keeping me from working with people, and I have all this anxiety because I'm afraid people aren't going to help me achieve this vision.

I have already said I need to kind of tuck this away for now, my vision, the things I want to do, to achieve the results I want - which is networking, getting a good reputation, making new friends, and learning more about this.

So I'm very sorry if I am offending photographers and anyone else out here. That was never my intention.

I think this thread has run it's course.

Thanks to everyone who has lent helpful advice.