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Photographer
Valenten Photography
Posts: 265
Balikpapan, Kalimantan Timur, Indonesia


Hey guys,

I am wondering if you had any tricks in order to maintain a good color consistency for a whole shoot editing.

Obviously, using similar tint/temperature when in Lightroom/Camera Raw (I'm using the latter) is quite required. However, I recently did a shoot which was mostly in a place made of concrete, but some of the pictures were also showing the green grass nearby. Thus, I had a lot of "problems" having those picts stay homogeneous.

Is there any way I could be more sure that two edited pictures are similar in terms of "colors" ? Maybe through a metering tool ?

Thank you by advance,

Cheers,

V.
Jan 14 13 05:43 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Pictus
Posts: 991
Teresópolis, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil


For white balance use the custom white balance
or some grey card like WhiBal or PassPort or a gadget like SpyderCube

BTW, the Passport can also create custom camera profiles, but it is not resistant or durable like the WhiBal, another very useful stuff is to use a Reflector like this one.
Jan 14 13 11:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Valenten Photography
Posts: 265
Balikpapan, Kalimantan Timur, Indonesia


Thanks a lot for your answer.

So I guess I would re-set the white balance each time I "move" a bit on a shooting spot ?

It should allow me to solve part of my "problem", however when editing I might need some additional "metering" tools. Imagine I'm shooting a red-haired girl. After processing the pict in Camera Raw (or Lightroom) I'm opening it in photoshop in order to enhance the hair. I'd like to make sure that both enhancements are similar... (in terms of colors).

The example is not very good lol. I know. Actually, I am quite able to remain rather consistent in terms of colors when editing a photoshoot but I'm trying to find a "safer" solution than relying on my own brains smile

Cheers for the answer though, I guess I definitely need a white card !
Jan 14 13 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Pictus
Posts: 991
Teresópolis, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil


Glad to help, if the light changes, the WB will also change...
Jan 14 13 04:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,921
Santa Ana, California, US


- Don't use cheap lights that vary in color temperature and exposure (like Paul buff stuff)
- Take a picture at the start of a color card like X-rite passport (which also will generate a profile for that project which you can load into Lightroom).
Jan 14 13 04:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Garnet Thomas
Posts: 27
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


You can always pick a point (Say, the model's cheek) and compare the colour between photos in ACR and base the white balance on keeping that consistent.
Jan 14 13 05:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cuervo79
Posts: 1,059
Guatemala, Guatemala, Guatemala


Valenten Photography wrote:
Thanks a lot for your answer.

So I guess I would re-set the white balance each time I "move" a bit on a shooting spot ?

It should allow me to solve part of my "problem", however when editing I might need some additional "metering" tools. Imagine I'm shooting a red-haired girl. After processing the pict in Camera Raw (or Lightroom) I'm opening it in photoshop in order to enhance the hair. I'd like to make sure that both enhancements are similar... (in terms of colors).

The example is not very good lol. I know. Actually, I am quite able to remain rather consistent in terms of colors when editing a photoshoot but I'm trying to find a "safer" solution than relying on my own brains smile

Cheers for the answer though, I guess I definitely need a white card !

when you've used the white balance target everything starts getting easier, generally I only take new readings when there are big changes in light like transitioning from direct sunlight to shadows or if the day becomes clowdy, if you're working with strobes in studio its easier (even with cheap lights).

Now after adjusting all the raws if you want to keep the same adjustment like the example you mentioned on the hair first work in a non destructive way so if you did the hair color enhancement on an adjustment layer you just copy that to the new file paint on the mask again and you're done. The problem most of the time comes when working with multiple light sources that have different temperatures.

Jan 14 13 05:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


John Allan wrote:
- Don't use cheap lights that vary in color temperature and exposure (like Paul buff stuff)

The Einstein stuff is actually great for color accuracy (one of the few lights that don't change 80K of color for every stop you drop power).  Modifiers change your color balance a lot though.

I do WhiBal shots for every major lighting change (add one, remove one, big change in power levels) when I want to be color consistent...

Jan 14 13 06:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,785
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


http://pcdn.500px.net/22377765/62612942adf9801b9700891bc682a676e1bdcd64/4.jpg

http://pcdn.500px.net/22380369/1cd9b36679d91a148ba789c9ba1f6eb8f76a9eff/4.jpg

And use a properly calibrated monitor in conjunction with training your eyes to see "good" color.
Jan 14 13 06:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sammyspade
Posts: 98
Portland, Oregon, US


Using the WB eyedropper on anything that you know is white/grey/black in the photo often gets you close.  Clothing, paper, plate, etc.  If there's nothing, click on the whites of the model's eyes.
Jan 14 13 06:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Valenten Photography
Posts: 265
Balikpapan, Kalimantan Timur, Indonesia


Thank you all for these answers smile !!

What if I want a picture to look colder than it would be if calibrating the shoot with e white card or something like that ?
I mean, using the white card should allow me to reach the "real" color (I'll call it that way ^^). But I'm sometimes shooting alternative/goth models, for whom I may want to do colder looks.

What would be the best practice : compare the colors using a color picker, or adding colored filters in post-production using photoshop & adjustment layers ? or something else ?

I guess I would go for the 2nd option, but I'd like to have your point of view on what you think would be the best practice smile
Jan 15 13 06:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cuervo79
Posts: 1,059
Guatemala, Guatemala, Guatemala


Valenten Photography wrote:
Thank you all for these answers smile !!

What if I want a picture to look colder than it would be if calibrating the shoot with e white card or something like that ?
I mean, using the white card should allow me to reach the "real" color (I'll call it that way ^^). But I'm sometimes shooting alternative/goth models, for whom I may want to do colder looks.

What would be the best practice : compare the colors using a color picker, or adding colored filters in post-production using photoshop & adjustment layers ? or something else ?

I guess I would go for the 2nd option, but I'd like to have your point of view on what you think would be the best practice smile

You're still making too much fuzz over a simple matter, if you want colder on all the series you do it selecting all your raws and decrease the temperature, it only becomes a bit harder if you're working with more than one body.

Jan 15 13 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Valenten Photography
Posts: 265
Balikpapan, Kalimantan Timur, Indonesia


Cuervo79 wrote:
You're still making too much fuzz over a simple matter

Maybe yeah, sorry about this ^^ Just thought there could be some high-end metering systems or something like this smile

Jan 15 13 09:55 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Pictus
Posts: 991
Teresópolis, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil


The grey card will make the image neutral, from the neutral state you tweak the RAW converter
white balance slider to achieve the desired mood, cooler or warmer like sunset/sunrise.

If you are a gadget addict
http://youtu.be/VUWbClxn5yY
http://youtu.be/_Rh1aGA4POc
Jan 15 13 11:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,921
Santa Ana, California, US


SKITA Studios wrote:

The Einstein stuff is actually great for color accuracy (one of the few lights that don't change 80K of color for every stop you drop power).  Modifiers change your color balance a lot though.

I do WhiBal shots for every major lighting change (add one, remove one, big change in power levels) when I want to be color consistent...
Paul Buff website: Einstein wrote:
Two distinct operation modes are available from the rear panel: the Constant Color mode and the Action mode. In Constant Color mode, the emitted color temperature is held constant at 5600ºK (+/- 50ºK at any power setting or input voltage). The flash duration ranges from 1/540 second (t.1) at full power to 1/1700 second (t.1) at half power to 1/9,000 second (t.1) at the lowest power setting. In Action mode, the flash duration is minimized for maximum action stopping capability where absolute color consistency is secondary to motion freezing. At half power in Action mode, the flash duration is approximately 1/2000 second (t.1) and the color temperature is approximately 5750º K. In this mode, the color temperature rises as power is reduced.

I prefer to have both color consistency and fast flash. This is just representative of Paul Buff's tricky marketing. You can have better color consistency (than their other models), but then you sacrifice.
On my Profoto D4, I have both.
Cheap gear comes at a price.

Jan 15 13 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,921
Santa Ana, California, US


Valenten Photography wrote:
Thank you all for these answers smile !!

What if I want a picture to look colder than it would be if calibrating the shoot with e white card or something like that ?
I mean, using the white card should allow me to reach the "real" color (I'll call it that way ^^). But I'm sometimes shooting alternative/goth models, for whom I may want to do colder looks.

What would be the best practice : compare the colors using a color picker, or adding colored filters in post-production using photoshop & adjustment layers ? or something else ?

I guess I would go for the 2nd option, but I'd like to have your point of view on what you think would be the best practice smile

If you look at the picture of the color checker passport above, there is a warming/cooling row of squares to allow you to do just that.

Jan 15 13 12:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Valenten Photography
Posts: 265
Balikpapan, Kalimantan Timur, Indonesia


great, thank you guys smile
Jan 15 13 03:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cuervo79
Posts: 1,059
Guatemala, Guatemala, Guatemala


Valenten Photography wrote:

Maybe yeah, sorry about this ^^ Just thought there could be some high-end metering systems or something like this smile

I didn't mean my comment as harsh, the thing is color consistency is important when your clients start needing it, for example if you want to do portraits or weddings color consistency is not as important as say doing commercial work. I would recommend however to read about color, for example start reading on color spaces, color profiles. Then you start noticing that color accuracy is also important to color consistency, And that opens a whole other BIG topic.

Don't sweat it you can go very well with a normal white balance target (like the whibal) or something like the color checker passport.

Jan 15 13 04:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


John Allan wrote:
I prefer to have both color consistency and fast flash. This is just representative of Paul Buff's tricky marketing. You can have better color consistency (than their other models), but then you sacrifice.
On my Profoto D4, I have both.

?  The Einstein marketing clearly states that it's constant color, but there's a faster mode that's less constant that cuts off the tail sooner...you can even use the LCD to modify a few parameters so it goes a bit faster than "action" mode.

Dug a bit on the D4 because I'm always curious how about the tech behind the gear and apparently, it's spec'd for +-150K across its range:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/858164

Bronco Scoro packs still are the leaders if you have a big enough wallet...really wish I were Chase Jarvis :-)

Sorry OP, for getting off topic...

Jan 15 13 05:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,921
Santa Ana, California, US


SKITA Studios wrote:
?  The Einstein marketing clearly states that it's constant color, but there's a faster mode that's less constant that cuts off the tail sooner...you can even use the LCD to modify a few parameters so it goes a bit faster than "action" mode.

Dug a bit on the D4 because I'm always curious how about the tech behind the gear and apparently, it's spec'd for +-150K across its range:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/858164

Bronco Scoro packs still are the leaders if you have a big enough wallet...really wish I were Chase Jarvis :-)

Sorry OP, for getting off topic...

I don't pay attention to some anonymous forum poster on Fredmiranda.
Here's what Profoto says:

Profoto's new D4 Air generators are the perfect combination of digital precision and versatility with analogue control and reliability. This gives you the immense possibilities of computer technology and the logical handling of a classic instrument. Highest power stability, constant colour temperature and colour spectrum guarantee exact and repeatable results with high-resolution digital cameras and backs. D4 generators grow with your demands. They are suited to all kinds of sophisticated photography such as still life, interior, people and product shots.

Four truly asymmetric outputs allow the use of four flash heads on one generator with individual control – this means many jobs can be done using just one D4 Air pack. Profoto's D4 Air truly represents the worldwide reference in colour and f-stop stability, even at asymmetric power distribution. The integrated Air module offers a fast and reliable radio sync and allows direct control of all settings via an Air Remote transceiver or Profoto's Studio software (Mac and PC).

The unique ergonomic design combines the positive feel of mechanical knobs and switches with the precision of electronic technologies. This combination allows for precise control in 1/10 f-stop increments, all with digitally controlled output, insuring that flash and colour temperature remain consistent every time.

...AND...



    Perfect performance, advanced functions - full direct control

    Four individually controlled full asymmetric adjustable lamp sockets
    8 f-stops power range for precise control in 1/10 f-stop increments
    Unique ergonomic design
    Highest power stability from flash-to-flash; no f-stop shifts
    Constant colour temperature flash-to-flash and over the entire power range
    Extensive range of light-shaping tools and accessories
    Built-in Air module for full radio remote and sync

Jan 15 13 07:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Dempsey
Posts: 673
Atlantic City, New Jersey, US


John Allan wrote:
- Don't use cheap lights that vary in color temperature and exposure (like Paul buff stuff)
- Take a picture at the start of a color card like X-rite passport (which also will generate a profile for that project which you can load into Lightroom).

you are completely wrong - I am a full time professional photog that shoots every day in the studio.  I've been using Paul Buff lights for years and have been extremely happy with the results. There is negligible color temperature variation in their mono lights - they make a very good product at a fair price and have excellent customer service.  I only wish that the other manufacturers I deal with were half as good as Paul Buff.  I can't imagine why you would single them out as being an inferior product when this is just not true. 
Paul Dempsey
www.pauldempseyphotography.com

Jan 15 13 07:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,921
Santa Ana, California, US


Paul Dempsey wrote:
you are completely wrong - I am a full time professional photog that shoots every day in the studio.  I've been using Paul Buff lights for years and have been extremely happy with the results. There is negligible color temperature variation in their mono lights - they make a very good product at a fair price and have excellent customer service.  I only wish that the other manufacturers I deal with were half as good as Paul Buff.  I can't imagine why you would single them out as being an inferior product when this is just not true. 
Paul Dempsey
www.pauldempseyphotography.com

Just not. Apparently we have a different definition of technological quality. But I think it's wonderful if you've circumvented their deficiencies and made them function for your needs.

Jan 15 13 07:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Dempsey
Posts: 673
Atlantic City, New Jersey, US


John Allan wrote:

Just not. Apparently we have a different definition of technological quality. But I think it's wonderful if you've circumvented their deficiencies and made them function for your needs.

yes it's wonderful, hopefully you'll find something that works for yourself soon.

Jan 15 13 07:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,921
Santa Ana, California, US


Paul Dempsey wrote:

yes it's wonderful, hopefully you'll find something that works for yourself soon.

I'm quite happy with years of using high-end Balcar and now using Profoto.
I don't need your unsolicited critique.

Jan 15 13 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cuervo79
Posts: 1,059
Guatemala, Guatemala, Guatemala


Bleh way to "feed" the derailment of the thread....
Jan 15 13 08:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SKITA Studios
Posts: 1,564
Boston, Massachusetts, US


John Allan wrote:
I don't pay attention to some anonymous forum poster on Fredmiranda.
Here's what Profoto says:

There's a certain irony to saying PCB marketing is bogus and then quoting Profoto marketing ;-)
I was at an Elinchrom presentation at a local camera store and and someone asked the color consistency question...the "rep" said with a straight face 50K through the entire range...on systems that use standard capacitor reduction tech?  LOL.

That said, +-150K through the D4's range is enough considering how much modifiers will change your color balance.
The OP just needs to remember to use similar modifiers and shoot a white balance card on every modifier and major lighting power change.

Jan 16 13 09:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,921
Santa Ana, California, US


SKITA Studios wrote:
There's a certain irony to saying PCB marketing is bogus and then quoting Profoto marketing ;-)
I was at an Elinchrom presentation at a local camera store and and someone asked the color consistency question...the "rep" said with a straight face 50K through the entire range...on systems that use standard capacitor reduction tech?  LOL.

That said, +-150K through the D4's range is enough considering how much modifiers will change your color balance.
The OP just needs to remember to use similar modifiers and shoot a white balance card on every modifier and major lighting power change.

Where exactly are you getting this +-150 spec for D4?  From some anonymous poster on a photography forum? I'm assuming you're quoting from memory from some more legitimate source. Where? Please reference your source. Possibly you're confusing the D4 pack with the D1 monolight which is a more entry-level system.

And yes, modifiers will definitely effect temperature, but the effect they inject will not change per power level, it will be consistent. For instance my older Chimera softbox lowers the color by about 300-400.

Yes, I put more faith in the published numbers, specs, features of the like of Profoto than I do PB. The respective companies serve different markets.

Jan 16 13 11:19 am  Link  Quote 
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