I haven't done many TF shoots lately. But answering your question hypothetically, I guess I would like to work again with someone who is fun to be around, has a good sense of humor, is adventurous, poses well, and is creative in her own right. Extra points for being able to do her own hair and makeup. Oh, and of course, does nudes.
I've had three repeat shootings and each second shoot produced amazing work (IMO).
They deliver, chemistry and a willingness to let me explore foot photography were key factors. These shootings, as with most of them, weren't for trade.
Shandra Stark
Posts: 13,362
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Here are the top three things photographers with whom I've done multiple trade sessions have said:
They will work me over and over because...
1. I am always shoot-ready. Always fit, clear skin...no hassle...typically zero need-based retouching. The most common phrase I hear is that "[my] shit is on point." Always being shoot-ready also means I'm always up for anything.
"Hey, Shandra! Dude...I have this idea. We have to drive three hours into the desert...we should leave by 3am. Maybe we can get some shitty diner food on the way. I don't actually know where the spot is...we'll have to go adventuring. Do you have a machete? We need a machete."
2. I am a relentless business woman. Working with me means that their images will be marketed heavily, and their talent talked about endlessly. I love their work! I will tell anyone who will listen!
3. I love what I do! My passion for art makes every shoot a real joy (the same can be said for those with whom I trade)- shoots with me are fun! Typically, a trade shoot with me will last half a day or more, and end with lunch or dinner- with all parties involved chatting and giggling. Giggling is a common occurance during all trade shoots- when both parties ar secure in their work, it's easy to get the shots you want and still have room to be silly.
I personally love repeat collaborations, and here are a few things that I've noticed that are usually factors in them:
1. Availability - they have to be around, or around often enough to shoot more than once. I live in a smaller town and there are a handful of models that I've shot with repeatedly largely because we're close.
2. Communication - they're good about corresponding with me, but they also share input and ideas before and after the shoot and they think up their own ideas.
3. We have common artistic interests - it helps when both the model and I like the same sort of things in an image. It also tends to mean that we both think about he shot in similar ways, which means that there is less micro-management when shooting.
4. They enjoy experimentation - it's great when a model gets excited about a concept that you're not sure if it's going to work or not, and even better when they do all they can to make it work.
5. They're fun - I'm just a hobbiest, and nothing makes me want to shoot with a model again like when we both have lots of fun on a shoot.
Laura UnBound
Posts: 24,724
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
They need to be able to do more than what we shot the first time. Some models can pull off anything, some models get stuck in a rut of that 'one' thing theyre good at/comfortable at/want to do
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
Nice to see input from models on this.
Personally, it's gotta be fun. If I collaborate with somebody, and it's not fun, why the hell would I want to go through that again?
Other than that, some of the stuff already mentioned above. I want to work with somebody who can give me different to what we got last time. I want somebody who's willing to share their own ideas as well as explore mine (no matter how wacky either of our ideas might initially sound). I want somebody who can deal with my sense of humour for several hours at a time without punching me in the face.
Shandra Stark
Posts: 13,362
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Laura UnBound wrote: They need to be able to do more than what we shot the first time. Some models can pull off anything, some models get stuck in a rut of that 'one' thing theyre good at/comfortable at/want to do
This, too!
The work I've been able to create on a trade basis evolves with each shoot, because both parties are striving to outdo themselves, push limits, and move in new directions.
In any successful, repeat collaboration, neither party should be a one-trick pony.
Shandra Stark
Posts: 13,362
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Kaouthia wrote: Nice to see input from models on this.
Personally, it's gotta be fun. If I collaborate with somebody, and it's not fun, why the hell would I want to go through that again?
Other than that, some of the stuff already mentioned above. I want to work with somebody who can give me different to what we got last time. I want somebody who's willing to share their own ideas as well as explore mine (no matter how wacky either of our ideas might initially sound). I want somebody who can deal with my sense of humour for several hours at a time without punching me in the face.
DareImagesArt
Posts: 48
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
In my mind, there needs to be a desire to continue developing both parties skills and a desire to experiment, with the ultimate aim to just get better and better images.
Both of you have to be really comfortable, be able to laugh easily and there needs to be a chemistry and trust. There are several models i absolutely love working with and never hesitate to shoot with them when the opportunity arises. I know i am in for an enjoyable day and the
Final results are usually bloody great.
All of that said, i would dearly love to have a muse whereby we could develop ideas, concepts, etc and push the edges a little.
Very, very hard to find!!
Shandra Stark wrote: Here are the top three things photographers with whom I've done multiple trade sessions have said:
They will work me over and over because...
1. I am always shoot-ready. Always fit, clear skin...no hassle...typically zero need-based retouching. The most common phrase I hear is that "[my] shit is on point."
2. I am a relentless business woman. Working with me means that their images will be marketed heavily, and their talent talked about endlessly. I love their work! I will tell anyone who will listen!
3. I love what I do! My passion for art makes every shoot a real joy (the same can be said for those with whom I trade)- shoots with me are fun! Typically, a trade shoot with me will last half a day or more, and end with lunch or dinner- with all parties involved chatting and giggling. Giggling is a common occurance during all trade shoots- when both parties ar secure in their work, it's easy to get the shots you want and still have room to be silly.
Would you mind taking this make out session with yourself elsewhere, thank you very much ?
Shandra Stark
Posts: 13,362
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Axioma wrote: Would you mind taking this make out session with yourself elsewhere, thank you very much ?
Those are things photographers tell me make them want to work with me (and, one would assume, other models- such as yourself) again.
The same three things again without anecdotes:
1. Photographers will probably be interested in repeat work with those who are always physically ready to shoot, and up for anything.
2. Photographers will probably be interested in repeat work with those who work hard for them- who are well-known, and use their marketing skills to promote others when credit is due.
3. Photographers will probably wish to collaborate most with those who are fun, engaging, and not up-tight.
To be clear, you did not start a thread about yourself. You started a thread about other people, on a public forum.
Kaouthia wrote: Personally, it's gotta be fun. If I collaborate with somebody, and it's not fun, why the hell would I want to go through that again?
I understand your point of view and preferences, yet I believe there can be many reasons why. Just thinking out loud: perhaps she has a killer look, perhaps she is very well connected, perhaps she challenges you to make your best work, even though the process is hard and "not fun", many reasons.
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
Axioma wrote: I understand your point of view and preferences, yet I believe there can be many reasons why. Just thinking out loud: perhaps she has a killer look, perhaps she is very well connected, perhaps she challenges you to make your best work, even though the process is hard and "not fun", many reasons.
Ok, let's address 'em....
1) Perhaps she has a killer look.
Ok, sure, but there's 7 billion people on the planet. I'll find somebody else with a killer look.
Not all of the folks I shoot with regularly are even models. They don't have profiles on anywhere, they don't shoot with anybody else, or even offer any modelling services. They just enjoy shooting with me, and I with them.
2) Perhaps she is very well connected.
Cool, but if I think she's an arsehole and difficult to get along with, chances are so do those people she's connected to, or they're just as annoying as she is and I don't wanna work with them either.
She'll also most likely not be the only way to get to those "connections" if that was a goal.
3) Perhaps she challenges you to make your best work.
In theory, perhaps, but I'm not buying it. If I'm not enjoying the company and not enjoying what I'm doing, I'm not pushing myself. I'm going through the motions of tried and trusted stuff to get through the shoot as quick as possible and send them on their merry way.
When I shoot TF, it's primarily personal work. So, if I'm going to invest time and money into a shoot, I want to enjoy it.
Shandra Stark
Posts: 13,362
Boston, Massachusetts, US
Kaouthia wrote:
Ok, let's address 'em....
1) Perhaps she has a killer look.
Ok, sure, but there's 7 billion people on the planet. I'll find somebody else with a killer look.
2) Perhaps she is very well connected.
Cool, but if I think she's an arsehole and difficult to get along with, chances are so do those people she's connected to, or they're just as annoying as she is and I don't wanna work with them either.
She'll also most likely not be the only way to get to those "connections" if that was a goal.
3) Perhaps she challenges you to make your best work.
In theory, perhaps, but I'm not buying it. If I'm not enjoying the company and not enjoying what I'm doing, I'm not pushing myself. I'm going through the motions of tried and trusted stuff to get through the shoot as quick as possible and send them on their merry way.
When I shoot TF, it's primarily personal work. So, if I'm going to invest time and money into a shoot, I want to enjoy it.
Agreed. When you are not enjoying yourself, you are not capable of producing your best work.
I just finished reading a book call Book Yourself Solid, and the entire first chapter is dedicated to dropping clients that are not a good fit. There is no reason to put yourself through torture more than once, especially if there is no direct financial return.
I was fortunate enough to be able to shoot with one model over 50 times over a 2 1/2 year period. We brought a lot to the table, it forced us to collaborate, find new things and concepts to try out, and generally force us to be creative. We had a great chemistry and worked very well together. Our tastes and styles meshed together well.
And of course the fact that she is so beautiful certainly didn't hurt matters any!
In general I try to work with models that I like multiple times. Stuff usually gets better rather than stale.
I've had a few repeat shoots and have quite a few more coming up.
I feel if there is more to shoot with someone and they're willing to shoot again with me then we will do more shoots. If I feel ideas have been exhausted with someone then I don't see the point in working together any longer.
Shades Of Gray
Posts: 1,043
Colorado Springs, Colorado, US
We must first of all, share a similar artistic vision. That makes for a natural enthusiasm on both sides that's hard to beat. It's also important that she is capable of more than one boring facial expression. I have enjoyed repeat shoots on a number of occasions. Sometimes, over and over and over again. Always different, always great. Conversely, there have been shoots that I couldn't wait for them to end because of the dull, unenthusiastic expressions and poses. Intelligence seems to help too. Smart models seem to have a better sense of humor, are more fun to shoot with and they also have the intellectual curiosity that helps them to "get it" They know and understand the end result that is sought.
Ok, sure, but there's 7 billion people on the planet. I'll find somebody else with a killer look.
Not all of the folks I shoot with regularly are even models. They don't have profiles on anywhere, they don't shoot with anybody else, or even offer any modelling services. They just enjoy shooting with me, and I with them.
2) Perhaps she is very well connected.
Cool, but if I think she's an arsehole and difficult to get along with, chances are so do those people she's connected to, or they're just as annoying as she is and I don't wanna work with them either.
She'll also most likely not be the only way to get to those "connections" if that was a goal.
3) Perhaps she challenges you to make your best work.
In theory, perhaps, but I'm not buying it. If I'm not enjoying the company and not enjoying what I'm doing, I'm not pushing myself. I'm going through the motions of tried and trusted stuff to get through the shoot as quick as possible and send them on their merry way.
When I shoot TF, it's primarily personal work. So, if I'm going to invest time and money into a shoot, I want to enjoy it.
It would have had to been a good, 'easy' shoot where things kind of just flowed (as opposed to me having to literally choose every single pose for the model and at times do them myself to show the model) AND it had to have had amazing results.
While shooting with a model for the first time provides an element of discovery that is usually very enjoyable, with models I've shot before there's a trustful rapport in subsequent shoots.
With one non-MM model I shot with seven times, at one point in one shoot we didn't exchange a single word in about fifteen minutes; I directed by expression, pose or hand-gesture that whole time and she understood everything. Smoothest, most efficient and enjoyable shoot I've ever had.
What makes me want to shoot multiple times with a model?
(in no particular order)
- looks, both face and body
- her professional approach to the shoot, both in negotiations and at the shoot
- good communication and her willingness to ask questions and make her own suggestions; I prefer models who are actively involved in the shoot
- open-mindedness about proposed looks (at least a willingness to discuss the look; twice I've had models respond to suggested poses -- one girl, with every suggested pose -- with "Well, that's stupid!)
- enthusiasm, patience and good humor; if Murphy's Law strikes and makes the shoot problematic but the model toughs it out with a sense of humor, I'll endure machine-gun fire to shoot with her again... partly to make amends for the problematic shoot and partly because she's simply awesome.
Fun and challenge do not did to live in separate worlds.
Shoots can be fun and challenging. Obstacle races can be fun and challenging. Yoga can be fun and challenging.
Sometimes it's difficult for people to let go of their own frame of reference and being able to imagine others having different motives and drivers. I mentioned a few other possibilities as well. I've read a few other possibilities as well in this thread. The end.
Kaouthia
Posts: 3,080
Lancaster, England, United Kingdom
Axioma wrote: Some like to be challenged, you obviously do not. That's fine. Was merely giving some options that might apply to others.
I don't like to be challenged because I don't want to contribute my own time to working with somebody I don't like?
That's a strange conclusion to make.
Or are you saying the only people who are even capable of challenging you are the people you don't like or don't like you?
If that's true, perhaps you should send me a message asking to TF, because I can't fucking stand you.
Axioma wrote: Sometimes it's difficult for people to let go of their own frame of reference and being able to imagine others having different motives and drivers.
Yeah, you're one of them. You can work with whoever you like and in whatever way you like, it doesn't affect me one little bit. I'm not criticizing your motives or accusing you of not challenging yourself because of it. If you want to work TF and contribute your time to working with people you don't like, then fine, that's your choice, you do what you want.
But you criticize me for doing what I want to do with my life and how I want to spend my time? and then accuse others of not being able to imagine others having different motives?
Axioma wrote: Some like to be challenged, you obviously do not. That's fine. Was merely giving some options that might apply to others.
I don't like to be challenged because I don't want to contribute my own time to working with somebody I don't like?
That's a strange conclusion to make.
Or are you saying the only people who are even capable of challenging you are the people you don't like or don't like you?
If that's true, perhaps you should send me a message asking to TF, because I can't fucking stand you.
Yeah, you're one of them. You can work with whoever you like and in whatever way you like, it doesn't affect me one little bit. I'm not criticizing your motives or accusing you of not challenging yourself because of it. If you want to work TF and contribute your time to working with people you don't like, then fine, that's your choice, you do what you want.
But you criticize me for doing what I want to do with my life and how I want to spend my time? and then accuse others of not being able to imagine others having different motives?
Chill pill. I didn't judge. In fact I said it was fine, everyone is different. That was the only thing I was trying to get across the entire time.
Really? Whether it's "fine" or not doesn't matter. You did it anyway, although I'm so pleased to have your approval.
maybe i should have said "maybe" in stead of "obviously", english is not my first language so i don't notice some connotations. anyhow, you are taking this overly personal and are being butthurt. if you can't stay on topic, i see myself forced to contact a mod. goodday.
Untitled Photographer wrote: We need to have some sort of chemistry and it has to be fun for both of us.
This really.
If I get some great images from the first shoot, feel we're really on the same page about what's cool and what isn't and just 'want' to shoot with a model again then I probably will. Very hard to quantify objectively though, unless maybe you go on the number of images from a shoot I end up using myself.
In fact I was thinking about this recently in relation to my two recent shoots with lovely Carla Monaco. On paper she doesn't really seem like an ideal model for me, being only 5'7" and having a slightly more 'glam' look than many of my other models, but in reality every moment shooting with her is a blast!
More importantly though, she really seems to 'get' what I'm after in a look. With most models, I have an idea what I'm looking for and we usually get something close but often don't quite achieve the 'signature' image I had in my mind's eye for the look, even with the help of moodboards and example images etc. However, with Carla, pretty much every look I shoot turns out exactly as I'd envisioned it or better - it's as if she can see into my mind and knows exactly what I'm looking for from her... and then delivers it. That's the kind of chemistry that makes me want to shoot a model again and again!
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