I am putting this in the Photography Forum because I was working as a Photographer when this happened but if the Mods want to move it that is fine. I also apologize if the title to my post is mis-leading, I do not mean it to be.
I dabble in Fantasy/Fetish, Exotic, and Bondage photography and I was assisting at a Bondage shoot with a Photographer who has done Bondage for years and always works with a skilled Rigger even for the most basic ties. He was working with a model he had not worked with before but she had good references and was very attractive, capable and came with a good work ethic. Everything was explained to the model in detail and she knew that safe words/signs were in place and would be honored immediately.
The first tie was a very basic nude, spread eagled to a bed and after the models arms were restrained she started to get edgy but said she was OK. When the Rigger started to tie her legs she started to actively resist but did not use her safe word. When the Rigger was finishing her legs she totally freaked out and started screaming and yelling in a hysterical fit and everyone knew something was seriously wrong so the Rigger cut the model out of the ties and the model ran sobbing off the set into the changing room. Fortunately the Make-Up artist (a woman) went after her to comfort her and calm her down which she did eventually. The model was so upset that she could not continue the shoot and it was cancelled at the cost of an entire day of production. After the model left we all talked about what had happened and if we did anything wrong and the general agreement was that we had done nothing wrong. Our Make-Up Artist told us that when she was trying to calm this model down the girl told her that her Step Father used to tie her down and he had repeatedly molested and raped her and according to the model "it all came rushing in on her" and that's why she freaked out.
This is by far the most serious I have ever seen a situation escalate to but I have photographed Exotic Dancers and Escorts and have been told similar stories of abuse and mis-treatment previously. I do want to mention that some of the Escorts I have photographed were from the higher end of the scale educated, traveled, and classy. These were not whacked up head cases.
The thing that I just do not understand and the question I have to ask is why if a woman has been abused, mis-treated, and tramautized in the past why would she chose something as a vocation (or a hobby) that might very likely cause past abuses to re-surface with horrible results? I by no means claim to know much about people but I would think that if a person had experienced this type of treatment that they would try and stay as far away from it as they can and not go sticking their head into the Lion's mouth so to speak.
I would like to hear from any Photographers who may have had a similar situation where a model freaked out or got upset for no apparent reason and if any models want to share their thoughts they are welcome as well.
I don't understand. If the models had good references, why did she choose to freak out on YOUR set?
Did someone look or act too much like the step father? I know you will likely never know the answer, but if she had done it before, what was different this time?
Best I can do is a model showing up double medicated for anxiety and turning what should have been a 3 hour shoot into 9 hours and no usable images.
The most reasonable explanation as to why is because she wanted to face her fears in a controlled environment but wasn't ready for it. It is not exactly right to do that on someone's time and would be more effective if eased into it with someone on a personal level whom she trust; however,I don't think she would trust people completely even if they were very close to her so there needs to be another way.
It is true that the best way to overcome a fear is to face it.
I haven't been abused but I've had my share of encounters with people who have.
I bet she didn't think she was going to get uncomfortable and all. It stands to reason that she felt those issues were an unpleasant memory and then in this situation she was flooded with those memories and got really upset.
STAHLWERK
Posts: 813
Karlsruhe, Baden-Württemberg, Germany
First I feel very sorry for her. I think this poor thing went through hell when she was young.
Looks like a "Flashback" or "Fear responses" of a sexual trauma.
Fear responses associated with the assault (to certain sights, sounds, smells, thoughts, etc.) can persists for weeks, months, or even years. For some women, having flashbacks, for example, may increase their concern about losing control of their lives and may even intensify the fear responses. In other words, the responses to being sexually assaulted often interact with one another and may cause the overall response to become more intense.
In general, fear usually has a specific object (person, place, situation, etc.) that is identified as the feared object.
Here the interesting part for you.
Victims of sexual assault may experience both fear and anxiety. Long after the assault, victims may continue to experience a fear response triggered by any number of reminders of the sexual assault. The triggers or stimuli might be certain features of the man who assaulted you, such as skin color, facial hair, body build, type of dress, and so forth. It might be related to the situation or the setting in which the assault took place, such as dark nights, country roads, or even your own home. In other words, anything which reminds you of the assault may serve as a trigger for a fear response. Places, situations, smells, etc. are often avoided because these stimuli remind the victim of the assault and trigger the fear reaction.
People react to any kind of fearful situation on three different levels: physical, mental, and behavioral. Our physical reactions are automatic; when faced with danger--or anything we interpret as dangerous--our bodies automatically respond. For instance, our hearts begin to beat faster and harder, our blood pressure increases, we breathe faster and harder, and our muscles get more tense. These kinds of physical reactions are the result of a flow of adrenalin, and is referred to as a "fight" or "flight" response. When we perceive that we are being threatened, our bodies automatically get ready to either fight the threatening object or to run away from the threat.
To the part why she is dong such a job like fetish stuff, can answer only a mental health professional like a psychologist.
i had a girlfriend once who wrote me and told me that she had been raped by her uncle. shortly after that we went for a weekend away and i suggested a little shower sex and she freaked out. she never told me but i'm guessing she was raped in the shower. if she had just mentioned that part in the letter i wouldn't have suggested it.
besides being horrible for doing that to someone in the first place rapists also kind of ruin it for the next guy.
i think you just have to let people be who they are, how they are and deal with it as best you can (or run away if it's too much). i try to be supportive but i'm not a therapist.
Good Egg Productions wrote: I don't understand. If the models had good references, why did she choose to freak out on YOUR set?
Did someone look or act too much like the step father? I know you will likely never know the answer, but if she had done it before, what was different this time?
Best I can do is a model showing up double medicated for anxiety and turning what should have been a 3 hour shoot into 9 hours and no usable images.
That pretty much is the $64,000 question and may never be answered. That is one of the reasons why I raised the question here on Model Mayhem. There is a wealth of talent, experience, and view points here and I was interested in getting a variety of feedback.
You mention that she protested (but didn't use the "safe word"), and you continued to tie open her legs....and she freaked. Makes pretty clear sense to me.
I don't fully understand the need for a "safe word" unless you were also shooting a rape-fetish video where the word "STOP" was part of the character?
Was a normal verbal "stop" a part of the "character"...and ONLY the "safe word" was good enough?
ArtisticGlamour wrote: You mention that she protested (but didn't use the safe word), and you continued to tie her legs....and she freaked. Makes pretty clear sense to me.
I have not shot a full fetish/erotic, but I don't fully understand the need for a "safe word" unless you are also shooting video?
Was a normal verbal "stop" a part of the "character"...and ONLY the safe word was good enough?
safe words are unambiguous. "no, please" could be part of the play. so could the normal gestures to indicate discomfort or pain. you dont need to be in full fetish to need to use one. Nothing says stop what you are doing like 'avocado'
AVD AlphaDuctions wrote: safe words are unambiguous. "no, please" could be part of the play. so could the normal gestures to indicate discomfort or pain. you dont need to be in full fetish to need to use one. Nothing says stop what you are doing like 'avocado'
Yeah, I guess. But, unless video was being shot and the "protest" was part of the character...seems like it would be pretty clear about the discomfort and the protest. Having never been there, I guess it's out of my element and "logic" doesn't always apply.
Though, it seems that her edgyness and approaching panic was ignored...because she waited too long to use the safe word.
2020 Photography wrote: The first tie was a very basic nude, spread eagled to a bed and after the models arms were restrained she started to get edgy but said she was OK. When the Rigger started to tie her legs she started to actively resist but did not use her safe word. When the Rigger was finishing her legs she totally freaked out and started screaming and yelling in a hysterical fit and everyone knew something was seriously wrong so the Rigger cut the model out of the ties and the model ran sobbing off the set into the changing room.
I think if I am shooting a bondage shoot...I'm wanting passion and smiles of pleasure...not going for a rape-fetish image.
Sounds like she may suffer from PTSD due to her past situation. You can't choose your freak out moments with PTSD. However it would have been best if she didn't put herself in the position to have a freak out moment. Due to a situation in my past I also have PTSD. But I take steps to not trigger myself, be it certain songs, soaps, toothpaste, etc. some others you just can't help, smells, noises, flashbacks. It happens.
AVD AlphaDuctions wrote: safe words are unambiguous. "no, please" could be part of the play. so could the normal gestures to indicate discomfort or pain. you dont need to be in full fetish to need to use one. Nothing says stop what you are doing like 'avocado'
LOL!
Yeah, I guess. But, unless video was being shot and the "protest" was part of the character...seems like it would be pretty clear about the discomfort and the protest. Having never been there, I guess it's out of my element and "logic" doesn't always apply.
Though, it seems that her edgyness was ignored...
sometimes discomfort or even pain is part of it. nothing to do with video. here are some mild examples since this is a photography forum, not fetlife.
AVD AlphaDuctions wrote: sometimes discomfort or even pain is part of it. nothing to do with video. here are some mild examples since this is a photography forum, not fetlife.
Exactly, and that would be the difference between "simple bondage" and "rape fetish" I would think. The "total effect" of the image being discomfort and pain, and "loss of power".
I'm not saying there's not a place for that (artistically, with the proper model)...I'm just saying if I was going for "simple bondage" I think I'd pick up on the "stop" and discomfort well before the panic stages. (as it was described above...there were uncomfortable warnings)
But, PTSD is a strange/unpredictable baggage to carry.
2020 Photography wrote: He was working with a model he had not worked with before but she had good references and was very attractive, capable and came with a good work ethic.
What does how attractive she was have to do with this? If she was unattractive would she not have freaked out? I just find it funny when people make comments like that...like her looks had anything to do with how she reacted.
2020 Photography wrote: Everything was explained to the model in detail and she knew that safe words/signs were in place and would be honored immediately.
The first tie was a very basic nude, spread eagled to a bed and after the models arms were restrained she started to get edgy but said she was OK. When the Rigger started to tie her legs she started to actively resist but did not use her safe word. When the Rigger was finishing her legs she totally freaked out and started screaming and yelling in a hysterical fit and everyone knew something was seriously wrong so the Rigger cut the model out of the ties and the model ran sobbing off the set into the changing room.
Seems to me, the rigger with all his years of experience, would have picked up on her apprehension...and maybe this situation would have never happened.
i c e c o l d wrote: Seems to me, the rigger with all his years of experience, would have picked up on her apprehension...and maybe this situation would have never happened.
Bingo. It's not at all uncommon but unfortunate that you had to be the unwitting bystander.
How people choose to act, behave or work through their issues is their own business. But it should never be at the expense of somebody else's livelihood or time, unless they're a voluntary participant in the event.
This person doesn't need "controlled settings" to work through their issues. They need intense therapy by a professional. Who knows, maybe you were the catalyst that will send her in that direction.
A psychologist friend once told me that one way that some victims of abuse attempt to deal with it is to recreate (in a vague sense to a more specific sense) the circumstances that surrounded their abuse. The idea is that being in a similar situation without experiencing the same result will alleviate their fears as well as help erase the effects of abuse. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it backfires.
I have known women who did this in various ways with various degrees of success.
i c e c o l d wrote: What does how attractive she was have to do with this? If she was unattractive would she not have freaked out? I just find it funny when people make comments like that...like her looks had anything to do with how she reacted.
I think the OP was just trying to paint a general picture of the scenario and how the model was perfect in every way and explaining why he chose her.
Yes, it does sound absurd when you break it down but I doubt the OP was making any statement that her looks had anything to do with it. Though maybe if she had been really ugly he wouldn't have been as upset that the shoot got ruined. I don't know lol.
Sounds to me like there were at LEAST two warnings of discomfort, and the situation beginning to fall apart, WELL BEFORE the kicking and screaming started. I read it as a lack of sensitivity on the Rigger and Photographer's part. PTSD or not. Safe word, or not.
IF the model was simply being tied up in a pre-shoot preparation for a simple "bondage nude" (still photos)...why would the multiple warnings of edgyness and discomfort go unnoticed? In a bondage nude with still photography, the model should be "comfortable" (relatively speaking) and feel safe at all times.
This seems like more than a simple bondage situation, and I'm guessing there's more to the story.
Honestly, I've only done a little fetish/bondage photography but I do know a lot about BDSM from other experiences and from people I've work with.
The bit that bothers me most is that whole thing about safe words. This sounds much more to me like a BDSM scene that is being photographed rather than a bondage shoot. There is a huge difference - the former being a genuine scene - the latter being more of a simulation. The shoots I've been involved with were all fun based and there was acting (never any hint of real emotions especially fear).
Maybe I'm out of step here but I would not want to be involved with something that could get this heavy - not if I'm looking for good photographic results anyway.
Sounds like there could have been similarly different expectations from the model. Certainly it was well beyond her comfort level.
IF the model was simply being tied up in a pre-shoot preparation for a simple "bondage nude" (still photos)...why would the multiple warnings of edgyness and discomfort go unnoticed? In a bondage nude with still photography, the model should be "comfortable" (relatively speaking) and feel safe at all times.
This seems like more than a simple bondage situation, and I'm guessing there's more to the story.
bondage images exist for multiple purposes. there is a whole world out there that most of us never see where they 'play' (for various reasons). Such play can include real pain. Such play can include real discomfort. Such play can include the placement of pins and other surface annoyances on/in the body. yes the hurt. they are supposed to hurt. We think it weird and perhaps sickening. Many in the scene consider it so normal they would not instinctively thing 'problem' when they see discomfort. They would see ' cool im doing it right for him/her'. When lifestyle fetishists interact with vanilla photographers and riggers signals often appear to be mixed. that is the problem. I was not there so I can't be sure but in their world, what the model was doing might have seemed normal to them. This is why BDSM contracts on the net have included safe word clauses ever since the first one was drafted (yes by a lawyer). A safe word is always unambiguous. It is chosen to be unambiguous. "NO" or "STOP" do not qualify for safe words.
imcFOTO wrote: Honestly, I've only done a little fetish/bondage photography but I do know a lot about BDSM from other experiences and from people I've work with.
The bit that bothers me most is that whole thing about safe words. This sounds much more to me like a BDSM scene that is being photographed rather than a bondage shoot. There is a huge difference - the former being a genuine scene - the latter being more of a simulation. The shoots I've been involved with were all fun based and there was acting (never any hint of real emotions especially fear).
Maybe I'm out of step here but I would not want to be involved with something that could get this heavy - not if I'm looking for good photographic results anyway.
Sounds like there could have been similarly different expectations from the model. Certainly it was well beyond her comfort level.
some of the best BDSM photography comes from people in the scene. I'm talking working professional photographers and models who pay their rent shooting this content. I think you are making an artificial distinction between a bondage shoot and and a scene being photographed. the two images I linked to earlier: can you tell without looking at the portfolios which were bondage shoot (by your definition) and which one was BDSM being photographed? or were they both one or the other? (dont cheat and look at their portfolios or I'll punish you )
It's possible that it was part of a repetition compulsion, as some others have mentioned -- or it's possible that it didn't even occur to the model that she might be bothered by the bondage, aside from some of the obvious physical discomfort.
Many victims of trauma aren't aware of all the things that can trigger them. The idea of bondage is to put the submissive in a very vulnerable situation, and that particular model may not have realized how vulnerable she would actually feel.
You may not have done anything explicitly wrong, but I would think that if it's a photo shoot and not a video shoot, there would be no reason for the model to be actively struggling and that be accepted as inconsequential -- safe word or not. Someone should have put the situation to a stop as soon as she started struggling and appearing uncomfortable. If she was really that terrified, I wouldn't be surprised if the safe word slipped completely out of her mind.
Emily Hayworth wrote: It's possible that it was part of a repetition compulsion, as some others have mentioned -- or it's possible that it didn't even occur to the model that she might be bothered by the bondage, aside from some of the obvious physical discomfort.
Many victims of trauma aren't aware of all the things that can trigger them. The idea of bondage is to put the submissive in a very vulnerable situation, and that particular model may not have realized how vulnerable she would actually feel.
You may not have done anything explicitly wrong, but I would think that if it's a photo shoot and not a video shoot, there would be no reason for the model to be actively struggling and that be accepted as inconsequential -- safe word or not. Someone should have put the situation to a stop as soon as she started struggling and appearing uncomfortable. If she was really that terrified, I wouldn't be surprised if the safe word slipped completely out of her mind.
^^this. take it from someone who has ptsd, personally when i panic and get triggered my mind turns to static.
2020 Photography wrote: I am putting this in the Photography Forum because I was working as a Photographer when this happened but if the Mods want to move it that is fine. I also apologize if the title to my post is mis-leading, I do not mean it to be.
...
I would like to hear from any Photographers who may have had a similar situation where a model freaked out or got upset for no apparent reason and if any models want to share their thoughts they are welcome as well.
Hi,
I'm not a photographer, just an OB nurse. All I can say is that denial can be a beautiful coping mechanism for many people and I am a fan of it until it no longer works. In my situation, watching women go through childbirth and the physical changes that occur during that moment can cause of host of hidden memories and emotions to come through as a horrible emtional breakthrough...
So, maybe this model really had no clue to the memories she had buried deeply until the last rig.
Can you blame her? Not really, she may have been totally unawares. Only suggestion I could think of is to apologize to her and not use a first time bondage model again, ever.
Jen
sammyspade wrote: Humans are unpredictable - even to themselves.
Laura UnBound
Posts: 24,724
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Why the fuck were "safewords" needed for a PHOTOSHOOT?
Was the rigger/photographer/you PLAYING with her in a BDSM SCENE or just taking some stupid pictures?
The whole point of a safeword is for PLAY, when youre in a negotiated scene with someone doing things to them that they may like but due to instincts resist against. If youre just taking pictures of someone, "STOP" works just fine.
For people with so much experience I dont know what the balls any of you were thinking.
One can easily be in real or simulated discomfort and/or pain without actually "scening" with the photographer. There was still absolutely no reason for a safeword unless the model and one of the other people there were actually playing with each other, which it doesnt sound like from the OPs description.
Laura UnBound wrote: Why the fuck were "safewords" needed for a PHOTOSHOOT?
Was the rigger/photographer/you PLAYING with her in a BDSM SCENE or just taking some stupid pictures?
The whole point of a safeword is for PLAY, when youre in a negotiated scene with someone doing things to them that they may like but due to instincts resist against. If youre just taking pictures of someone, "STOP" works just fine.
For people with so much experience I dont know what the balls any of you were thinking.
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